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1st-aid?Follow
ppl keep telling me to lvl 1st aid, and say im an idiot if i dont. sure i see the benfet, when ur oom, bandage. but i solo alot and never need healing *ty pw:s* so should i still lvl it?
I recommend you have it eventually, but no rush. You can do it at any time.
I believe that any healing class that doesn't have first aid is showing arrogance, there are many time first aid is useful. Like when you fear you can bandage up, I bandage when I'm in my bubble. over all it saves mana that could be use for something else.
Collbs wrote:
I believe that any healing class that doesn't have first aid is showing arrogance, there are many time first aid is useful. Like when you fear you can bandage up, I bandage when I'm in my bubble. over all it saves mana that could be use for something else.
Every class should learn first aid not just healers. If you solo it's not a big deal when you're a healer but it doesn't hurt. No need to rush it but I would level it up as you go. As you level you'll collect cloth from mobs anyways. Might as well lvl it up as you get it.
Its useful for a spriest because after a fight if you are low on HP you can just bandage yourself rather than going out of shadowform, healing, then going back into shadowform. Plus at the end of all that you then have to sit down and drink.
I guess food could accomplish the same goal though.
I guess food could accomplish the same goal though.
Quote:
I guess food could accomplish the same goal though.
That's how I have it. :D
lvl 70 S-priest, about 53-54days /played, and 50 of them as shadowspecced, I have 80 in first aid. ;)
Sure, Bandage could be good in raid's and other instance's... but naah, If I see im on low health I usually check ktm to see threat, if im low I use vampiric embrace and start nuking as hell to get my health up.
If Im high on threat meter I go out of shadowform and heal myself up, since im high on threat anyway I need to cooldown a little and this is perfect(sure, waste of mana.. but you have pots and a shadowfiend. :D)
SweeXic wrote:
If I see im on low health I usually check ktm to see threat, if im low I use vampiric embrace and start nuking as hell to get my health up.
If Im high on threat meter I go out of shadowform and heal myself up, since im high on threat anyway I need to cooldown a little and this is perfect(sure, waste of mana.. but you have pots and a shadowfiend. :D)
If Im high on threat meter I go out of shadowform and heal myself up, since im high on threat anyway I need to cooldown a little and this is perfect(sure, waste of mana.. but you have pots and a shadowfiend. :D)
Sorry, but this is just plain stupid :)
In raids, usually a healer will throw a heal on you before you even realize you are low on life. That's what healers do :P If I'd see any SP go out of shadowform I'd kick him out. You are there as a mana battery :P so get used to it. Let us do our job.
On the other hand, if you love your healers, you'll learn first aid: 4k life in 6 seconds and no mana and concentration from the healer? yes, pls. Do that! Let us keep the main tank up and bandage yourself.
As holy priest i use bandage also, most of the times on myself after an AOE (eg: maiden, netherspite, curator on Evo, gruul) and i see i have time (eg, other healers are full tank is HoTed up and full and not in danger of getting 2 shotted), it saves mana and its a nice as mini break to get out of MP5.
I even sometimes bandage a ranged DPSer when im near and theres not a lot going on in those 6 seconds. Saves on some mana pots in the long run ;)
I dont use it in 5-mans / heriocs since im solo healer 99/100 times and you dont have the time then.
If youre DPSer its obligated to bandage in 25 mans after AOE's, if 15 dpsers bandage that saves the healers tons and tons of mana. Its and obligation, imo, to ave bandages. In my guild you get kicked out of the raid, if you dont have at least a stack of bandages.
Its best to level 1st aid while leveling, its the easiest way and low level mats are horribly over-priced on my server. When youre at it up cooking as you level as well, its also very easy to "level while you level" and food (for the buffs) is also unmissable in raid-land. You can ofc bug other people for buff-food but its the most "charming" if you can do it yourself.
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 1:03pm by Sjans
I even sometimes bandage a ranged DPSer when im near and theres not a lot going on in those 6 seconds. Saves on some mana pots in the long run ;)
I dont use it in 5-mans / heriocs since im solo healer 99/100 times and you dont have the time then.
If youre DPSer its obligated to bandage in 25 mans after AOE's, if 15 dpsers bandage that saves the healers tons and tons of mana. Its and obligation, imo, to ave bandages. In my guild you get kicked out of the raid, if you dont have at least a stack of bandages.
Its best to level 1st aid while leveling, its the easiest way and low level mats are horribly over-priced on my server. When youre at it up cooking as you level as well, its also very easy to "level while you level" and food (for the buffs) is also unmissable in raid-land. You can ofc bug other people for buff-food but its the most "charming" if you can do it yourself.
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 1:03pm by Sjans
Scholar
20 posts
In level 19 WSG, I need to use banadages whenever I can. They cost no mana, and don't incur the 5 second cast/regen penalty. Managing mana in BG is the most challenging part IMO, so anything I can do to speed up regen, or prevent loss of mana is very important.
When soloing, however, it seems to matter much less, as you have time between battles.
When soloing, however, it seems to matter much less, as you have time between battles.
As it has been stated before, if you are not using first aid, it IS arrogant and you are not using everything at your disposal. The cost is minimal (in both time and coin), can be very easily leveled, saves mana, saves food and in the end gives the appearance you know and care about what you are doing. I wouldn't say you are an idiot, but if it is there for the taking, why not use it?
PilgrimFX wrote:
That's what healers do :P If I'd see any SP go out of shadowform I'd kick him out.
Would you boot a pally for healing himself, or a hunter for healing their pet? The way you say it, a healer should keep the spriest healed up, but if the SPriest's health is getting low, then that healer obviously has his hands full. You laud someone else for using a bandage, but you tell a Spriest that you'll boot him for shifting some of the burden of healing to himself?
PilgrimFX wrote:
On the other hand, if you love your healers, you'll learn first aid: 4k life in 6 seconds and no mana and concentration from the healer? yes, pls. Do that! Let us keep the main tank up and bandage yourself.
PilgrimFX wrote:
You are there as a mana battery :P so get used to it. Let us do our job.
If this is how you're utilizing your SPriests in your guild, you're missing out on some good stuff. Yes, they should always have VT up, but, hmm, there's CC with MC, in an emergency Fear, Shackle for the undead. They can VE and keep the DPS'ers health up so that you can "keep the main tank up." Oh, and they can out DPS rogues and most mages while doing all this. Lol, the first priest to call me a "Mana battery" is the first guy I boot, and the last I group with. You may as well tell your tank to just stand there and auto-attack or your hunter to just pewpew.
Lol, edited for less flaminess and I forgot about Shackle the first time around.
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 10:46am by Caeremonia
Caeremonia wrote:
You laud someone else for using a bandage, but you tell a Spriest that you'll boot him for shifting some of the burden of healing to himself?
I'll state that I'd never go out of shadowform to heal myself. If my VE isn't keeping me up, I've got bigger problems that dropping out of shadow won't fix.
In reference to the mana battery comment wrote:
If this is how you're utilizing your SPriests in your guild, you're missing out on some good stuff. Yes, they should always have VT up, but, hmm, there's CC with MC, in an emergency Fear, they can VE and keep the DPS'ers health up so that you can "keep the main tank up." Oh, and they can out DPS rogues and most mages while doing all this. Show some respect. The first priest to call me a "Mana battery" is the first guy I boot, and the last I group with. You may as well tell your tank to just stand there and auto-attack or your hunter to just pewpew.
I'm not sure he was being disrespectful. We are a mana battery in a raid. Pure and simple. Yes, we do very respectable damage, we are good undead CC in Kara, MC is lots of fun, yadda yadda yadda, but at the end of the day the biggest thing that we do is double the mana regen of the healers in the raid.
By the way, and maybe this is only because I'm just under 800 shadow damage pre-buffs, but I don't come CLOSE to mage/lock/rogue DPS. And these are people who are equally geared to me, so I'm not sure that I believe all that hype. We're a support class and I'm perfectly happy with that, and people are perfectly happy bringing me into a raid for that reason. I'd rather be last in DPS with a dead boss at my feet than first in DPS and end up wiping.
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 11:08am by TheEngine
bandage between pulls so you don't interrupt your out-of-combat mana regen
bandage [yourself] in groups to save mana to use on the tank
bandage [yourself] in groups to save mana to use on the tank
Yeah, that's why I went back and re-edited it to tone it down a bit. Still this notion of a "support" class is really irksome to me. Rogues and Mages don't bring anything I don't, but they're considered essential DPS and we're "Support" and when other classes use that term, that equates to being expendable. It doesn't help us to label ourselves as "Support" too.
...but at the end of the day the biggest thing that we do is double the mana regen of the healers in the raid.
Wrong, we do that while filling a DPS role and a backup healer role. I'm only 53 at the moment, so I don't have experience higher up, but on my damage meters in 5-mans, I rarely get beaten by rogues and usually tie/get beat by mages.
My main problem was with him saying he would kick a SPriest for deshadowing and giving no qualifiers for that statement. Believe me, if you see me unshadow, there is something wrong and I am fixing it. I also can't stand the term "mana-battery" because of the whole Lock eating health for mana then screaming for heals.
TheEngine wrote:
...but at the end of the day the biggest thing that we do is double the mana regen of the healers in the raid.
Wrong, we do that while filling a DPS role and a backup healer role. I'm only 53 at the moment, so I don't have experience higher up, but on my damage meters in 5-mans, I rarely get beaten by rogues and usually tie/get beat by mages.
My main problem was with him saying he would kick a SPriest for deshadowing and giving no qualifiers for that statement. Believe me, if you see me unshadow, there is something wrong and I am fixing it. I also can't stand the term "mana-battery" because of the whole Lock eating health for mana then screaming for heals.
#15REDACTED,
Posted: Aug 13 2007 at 8:23 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Lol, if you're having to bandage yourself as a priest, something has already gone wrong.
I would have it leveled up for just-in-case purposes, like if you are silenced for a long period of time or something went wrong.
Quote:
Wrong, we do that while filling a DPS role and a backup healer role. I'm only 53 at the moment, so I don't have experience higher up
You kind of unraveled your entire argument there since you are arguing with a well established 70 raiding spriest. With all due respect everything Pilgrim has said is true and your arguments are pretty futile.
Wow, that's pretty impressive reasoning there. He must know more than I do because he hit the level cap and I haven't. My arguments are not "futile". If I see the main healer not being able to keep up, I'm going to drop out of shadow and help out. If I were in Pilgrim's group, that would me I would get booted. Does that make sense to you?
Instead of just pointing out that the number 70 is greater than 53, wouldn't it be more helpful to actually address what I said?
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 1:33pm by Caeremonia
Instead of just pointing out that the number 70 is greater than 53, wouldn't it be more helpful to actually address what I said?
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 1:33pm by Caeremonia
What would be helpful is if you had raided as a priest in end game content. Very little of what appears to be true at level 53 still holds true in end game. I'm not saying to take everything anyone says on a message board as gospel, but if you've been around these boards long enough you'll notice that there are some pretty seasoned vets that give great advice. PilgrimFX is one of them. Mookus, Isfreak, Khalane, Sjans are others that I can think of off the top of my head. No one is here to start a flame war with you, but the advice of someone who has been there and performed the role we're talking about is going to know better than someone who hasn't even taken their toon to Outlands yet.
to the few non-supporters of bandaging:
wtf are you thinking?
how could you pass up a mana-free 4k health in 6 seconds?
just recently playing my fury warrior in a guild run on shadlabs, i had an excellent example of when bandaging is useful: blackheart. after that sob does his multi-charm, more often than not everyone is all over the place, and the main healer has to concentrate on the tank. if the rest of us didn't bandage, our two healers (pallys) would've been oom much more quickly and we never would've taken him down.
wtf are you thinking?
how could you pass up a mana-free 4k health in 6 seconds?
just recently playing my fury warrior in a guild run on shadlabs, i had an excellent example of when bandaging is useful: blackheart. after that sob does his multi-charm, more often than not everyone is all over the place, and the main healer has to concentrate on the tank. if the rest of us didn't bandage, our two healers (pallys) would've been oom much more quickly and we never would've taken him down.
I do a lot of PVP, and I quickly became irritated with people who would spam "HEAL PLZ PLZ PRIEST PLZ HEAL" while we were out of combat and I was in Shadowform, low on mana. I decided to write a macro:
/use Heavy Netherweave Bandages
/say How's my healing? Dial 1-800-LRN2BANDAGE!
Yes, priests should have maxed out first aid and should carry a stack of bandages. You never know when you'll need them, and you'll be glad when you do.
/use Heavy Netherweave Bandages
/say How's my healing? Dial 1-800-LRN2BANDAGE!
Yes, priests should have maxed out first aid and should carry a stack of bandages. You never know when you'll need them, and you'll be glad when you do.
WALL OF TEXT :P
@Azzwurms and MookusOU: thanks for the kind words. :) (and don't forget ixidoria... But it's better not use lists with names, as you'll surely forget someone :P)
@Caeremonia: I'm sorry, but you have to have been in both places to be able to explain the process of synergy between ShadowP and HolyP.
A good priest knows who and when to heal. It will throw a renew on the DPS at the end of a GH. If a priest really doesn't have time to heal you, then there might be many reasons.
1. Tank gets huge damage (Protectors in Mechanar, Bog Lords in Steamvault) and needs chain healing. In that case, we don't have time for anyone else. But you should not get damaged. If you do, and you die, it's your fault. Which is easier? Bandage=4k life, 6 seconds, or drop Shadowform, GCD, GH=3sec, SF again, GCD? First option means 6 seconds of 0 dps (not, because VT and Pain are there), second one means more seconds and mana consumed, that could have been used for damage. Choose wisely! :P
2. Someone else is more important in that specific fight. Maybe that mage that can keep a sheep. Or a lock that can fear, has a pet, can manage his life/mana etc. Or the hunter or it's pet. You say that you bring the same CC as other classes. MC you say? That is the last one i would use, because it means YOU do nothing, and if it breaks ... you know the rest. Fear you say? Locks do it much better, and I CAN DO IT also. That is not really a CC, but only when there are enough of them. (Lock, SP and HP at last boss in Mechanar?)
These are only 2 of the reasons of why sometimes you can't get healed and you have to manage this yourself. With VE healing (best oprtion if possible) or bandage (usually it's more efficient than VE) or with direct heals. If you drop SF to heal yourself, that is INEFFICIENT, so you're not doing the best thing for the group. If you drop SF to heal the group, then maybe it could be a life saver. But no fight in 5 man should really need 2 healers. VE should stabilize things until I can get a grip on the situation.
Example of fight where everyone should (could) bandage, including priest? Last boss of Shekket Halls, when he does arcane explosion. Gruul, after shatter. ETC.
And about your level: there are nice fights there, but it's up here, at 70 where things matter. It's where you'll spend your time until the next expansion. It's where ppl still can classify you as a noob if you didn't learn your job well while leveling. All the leveling is useful for you to learn how to use your class. But you perfect it at 70. You learn subtleties and how to best use your ******* of healings. Or DPS.
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 11:13pm by PilgrimFX
@Azzwurms and MookusOU: thanks for the kind words. :) (and don't forget ixidoria... But it's better not use lists with names, as you'll surely forget someone :P)
@Caeremonia: I'm sorry, but you have to have been in both places to be able to explain the process of synergy between ShadowP and HolyP.
A good priest knows who and when to heal. It will throw a renew on the DPS at the end of a GH. If a priest really doesn't have time to heal you, then there might be many reasons.
1. Tank gets huge damage (Protectors in Mechanar, Bog Lords in Steamvault) and needs chain healing. In that case, we don't have time for anyone else. But you should not get damaged. If you do, and you die, it's your fault. Which is easier? Bandage=4k life, 6 seconds, or drop Shadowform, GCD, GH=3sec, SF again, GCD? First option means 6 seconds of 0 dps (not, because VT and Pain are there), second one means more seconds and mana consumed, that could have been used for damage. Choose wisely! :P
2. Someone else is more important in that specific fight. Maybe that mage that can keep a sheep. Or a lock that can fear, has a pet, can manage his life/mana etc. Or the hunter or it's pet. You say that you bring the same CC as other classes. MC you say? That is the last one i would use, because it means YOU do nothing, and if it breaks ... you know the rest. Fear you say? Locks do it much better, and I CAN DO IT also. That is not really a CC, but only when there are enough of them. (Lock, SP and HP at last boss in Mechanar?)
These are only 2 of the reasons of why sometimes you can't get healed and you have to manage this yourself. With VE healing (best oprtion if possible) or bandage (usually it's more efficient than VE) or with direct heals. If you drop SF to heal yourself, that is INEFFICIENT, so you're not doing the best thing for the group. If you drop SF to heal the group, then maybe it could be a life saver. But no fight in 5 man should really need 2 healers. VE should stabilize things until I can get a grip on the situation.
Example of fight where everyone should (could) bandage, including priest? Last boss of Shekket Halls, when he does arcane explosion. Gruul, after shatter. ETC.
And about your level: there are nice fights there, but it's up here, at 70 where things matter. It's where you'll spend your time until the next expansion. It's where ppl still can classify you as a noob if you didn't learn your job well while leveling. All the leveling is useful for you to learn how to use your class. But you perfect it at 70. You learn subtleties and how to best use your ******* of healings. Or DPS.
Edited, Aug 13th 2007 11:13pm by PilgrimFX
Okay, this has gotten a bit out of hand. For some reason it seems that people think I'm anti-bandaging. I'm not. I love bandages. I'm also not trying to start a flame war.
Yes, I realize that things are different at 70 than where I'm at.
I was never saying "Why don't I get healed?" nor that "I'd drop out of shadow to heal myself." I do really appreciate you providing info, but you're not telling me anything I don't know. I know as a DPS'er my health is my problem. All I was trying to get across is that if the **** hits the fan and the MH can't keep up, and I drop out of Shadow to prevent a wipe and you booted me for it, that would make NO sense. Yes, I would probably try to leave that group at the very next diplomatic moment.
The other problem I was trying to get across is that Spriests are looked at as a support class. What other class/spec is referred to like that? To me it comes across as derogatory. Perhaps I'm missing something? I'm fairly certain that this thread is not productive anymore. The OP was answered, we disagree on a couple of things. Dead horse beaten. I'll see you guys @ 70. Till then, good hunting!
Yes, I realize that things are different at 70 than where I'm at.
I was never saying "Why don't I get healed?" nor that "I'd drop out of shadow to heal myself." I do really appreciate you providing info, but you're not telling me anything I don't know. I know as a DPS'er my health is my problem. All I was trying to get across is that if the **** hits the fan and the MH can't keep up, and I drop out of Shadow to prevent a wipe and you booted me for it, that would make NO sense. Yes, I would probably try to leave that group at the very next diplomatic moment.
The other problem I was trying to get across is that Spriests are looked at as a support class. What other class/spec is referred to like that? To me it comes across as derogatory. Perhaps I'm missing something? I'm fairly certain that this thread is not productive anymore. The OP was answered, we disagree on a couple of things. Dead horse beaten. I'll see you guys @ 70. Till then, good hunting!
Caeremonia wrote:
The other problem I was trying to get across is that Spriests are looked at as a support class. What other class/spec is referred to like that?
Lessee...non-resto Druids, non-holy Paladins and non-resto shamans.
And we're not looked at as a support CLASS, we're a support SPEC. Your primary purpose is not tanking, healing or DPS? You're a support spec. Support specs can do any one of the three things very well, and in some cases more than one, but that thing is not the sole purpose for that spec to be brought in. Support specs generally are very flexible and can fill several roles in a raid.
Feral druids - OT, melee DPS, ranged DPS (Maiden comes to mind with 2 rogues in the raid), spot heals/HoTs, motown (buff class)
Elemental/Enhancement shamans - DPS, spot heals, rezzer, totems (buff class)
Ret/Prot paladins - melee DPS, OT, spot heals, rezzer, blessings (buff class)
Shadow priests - ranged DPS, mana regeneration(VT), health regeneration(VE), limited CC, rezzer, fort/shadow buffs (buff class)
Saying that using the term "support class" is derogatory is not understanding the basis behind the concept. There are a LOT of people that play "off" specs, and they are VERY welcome in raids because of their flexibility, especially in the new "less is more" raid world of WoW. Raids have to be creative with respect to different encounters given different raid compositions, and support specs are awesome in helping fill various roles from time to time.
Let the whole "support = bad" concept go. We rock. Everyone knows we rock. It's all good.
as a 70 combat rogue, its easy to see that the sp claiming "support class" is a derogatory term hasnt hit 70. its the same personality i saw w/ many (not all) feral druids pre-70. S-preist ARE mana batteries, & its the main reason they are brought to a raid instead of say, a lock. but not because thats all theyre good at. its because while dpsing they heal everyone in the group, & put out good dps.
and no lie, at most lower lvls, where everyone is different lvls in instances (tanks may be 5+ lvls higher than a dps etc) its very easy to out-dps us rogues. keep in mind, most rogues suck. (its a fact most decent rading rogues i think can agree on). the only time the Sp out-dpses me is on trash (which doesnt matter at ALL endgame, cause the trash is gonna die only bosses count) or bosses that force us to run in and out, lowering our dps.
like was stated above Spreist rock. everyone knows it. but thinking your gonna be topping dps meters endgame against rogues/mages/affliction locks who know what theyre doing & are geared shows you got some learning to do. )or you need to find a guild where all those classes suck & you can always top the meters)
and no lie, at most lower lvls, where everyone is different lvls in instances (tanks may be 5+ lvls higher than a dps etc) its very easy to out-dps us rogues. keep in mind, most rogues suck. (its a fact most decent rading rogues i think can agree on). the only time the Sp out-dpses me is on trash (which doesnt matter at ALL endgame, cause the trash is gonna die only bosses count) or bosses that force us to run in and out, lowering our dps.
like was stated above Spreist rock. everyone knows it. but thinking your gonna be topping dps meters endgame against rogues/mages/affliction locks who know what theyre doing & are geared shows you got some learning to do. )or you need to find a guild where all those classes suck & you can always top the meters)
To the original question, people have said "no hurry" and to elaborate on that, I've never bothered with first aid at the lower levels for any of my characters, cause I'm greedy and cloth is a huge source of income at the AH. I've never faced anything pre-40 that was so scary it couldn't be handled with healing, potions, and food.
It's easy enough to buy stacks of cloth mid-40's and just go level it up. Yes, that does mean you sold a bunch of cloth earlier only to buy a bunch of cloth now, but I just like to wait until money isn't so much of a factor. Kind of like giving your lowbie self a little loan.
Here's a link to one of many quick leveling guides for first aid: http://wow.gameamp.com/guide/viewGuide/1542.php
It's easy enough to buy stacks of cloth mid-40's and just go level it up. Yes, that does mean you sold a bunch of cloth earlier only to buy a bunch of cloth now, but I just like to wait until money isn't so much of a factor. Kind of like giving your lowbie self a little loan.
Here's a link to one of many quick leveling guides for first aid: http://wow.gameamp.com/guide/viewGuide/1542.php
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