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Insufficient DPSFollow

#1 Aug 10 2007 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
I have noticed that I don't seem to be pulling my weight in instances.

Here is my armory link,
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Flatonius.

On trash I am using my three DoT's and spamming Shadowbolt. Renewing the Dot's and Shadowbolt again. On bosses I throw in Curse of Shadows or Elements instead of CoA. Should I be using CoS on trash too? I just turned 70 and don't have the rep yet for Heroics.

Any other ways to improve my DPS?

Thanks,



Edited, Aug 10th 2007 10:20am by medeardorff
#2 Aug 10 2007 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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423 posts
Well I think you know the answer yourself mate :)

You really need some better gear ,sniff around ,some q reward items are much better than items u have.
If you dont wanna quest ,try to make some money and buyoff bringer of death (staff) at least ... Caverns Of Time revered give Continuum Blade sword ,if u can get some nice offhand u have decend weapon for time being.
Helmet Of Second Sight (i think,cant remember now) also q reward ,much better ..
etc etc ..

Do some research man :)

take care
#3 Aug 10 2007 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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423 posts
and as for spell rotation ,well ,at least me ,i just put corr then spam sb ,for trash.
#4 Aug 10 2007 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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1,571 posts
Your armory link is giving me error for some reason, so wont comment your gear - mine is not all epixxxxx either but I still do good in those rare cases I accept instance runs.
Tbh I dont use any dots if I know the mob will not last at least 15 sec, I just spam SBs. CoS I used before but lately I dont get misses and resistances so I dont bother with it anymore on trash either.

I only dot the mob if my felguard has to offtank it.

#5 Aug 10 2007 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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3,761 posts
Armory doesnt work, so I dont know your gear/spec. You said "3 dots and shadowbolt" and you like CoS on bosses, so I'm guessing you're destruction? Try linking your armory again.


edit - Found your armory.

I'm guessing you have a felguard out, so your dps shouldnt stink that hard. Run your own damage meter, and go to options -> ADD PET DATA TO YOUR DATA. Your spell damage isnt bad for a new 70, and your spell rotation seems ok, so I'm guessing you're (A) not adding pet data to your data, or (B) using an imp with a felguard build in instances. A felguard build with an imp is horrible dps. You need the felguard out. I micro manage cleave with a felguard, you dont want it on autocast when the mobs near a CC target, but you do want it on autocast anywhere else.

Pet attack, immolate, corruption, shadowbolt spam on trash, add CoD or CoA on bosses, juggle life tap/drain life as needed.

Edited, Aug 10th 2007 4:08pm by mikelolol
#6 Aug 10 2007 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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2,754 posts
well gear is the biggest issue. tbh go do LOADS of 5mans, both heroic and non till you're exalted with them all. in the process you'll end up getting some good gear
(slavepens, underbog, shadowlab, arcatraz are good ones. on both normal and heroic for gear. also durnholde and black morass). 635 +damage with demonic knowledge is tiny, though one of the reasons is probably due to how much +stamina gear you've got instead of +damage, +hit (get about +80 hit rating, you'll notice the difference dps ways) and +crit.

also some factions have good rep rewards like honor hold and cenarion exp so getting exalted with them is worth it.
#7 Aug 10 2007 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
Thanks for the comments. I will look out for better +damage gear.

And, yes, in instances I usually have my imp out on passive for the HP boost.

I was also told, by my son, that +crit was only about the fourth most important on he priority list following damage, stam and int.

I will hit the instances more to gear up and will concentrate on Cenarion and Honor Hold though, with HH, I can only get rep from the top instance since I am already honored. I think I need to do a quest to earn the key.
#8 Aug 10 2007 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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3,761 posts
Ewww, no more imp buff when you're spec'd felguard k :P

Seriously though, use your felguard for 5 mans.
#9 Aug 10 2007 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
mikelolol wrote:
Seriously though, use your felguard for 5 mans.


What about Cleave? I usually have that turned off. It takes alot of mana for a limited return on investment. (Doesn't it?<g>)
#10 Aug 10 2007 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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3,761 posts
I'd grab 1/3 mana feed so felguard mana usage is almost a non issue. A simple life tap refreshes some of his mana.

I'd keep cleave on, except around sheep/CC targets. It hits pretty hard.

Edited, Aug 10th 2007 6:58pm by mikelolol
#11 Aug 10 2007 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent


Well, a warlock new to the guild who reached lvl 70 barely a week and uses a DT/Ruin build has almost 150 more spell damage than you do, so I am not surprised that you dont perform well.
#12 Aug 10 2007 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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1,571 posts
I would replace your bracers and belt with netherweave set, with damage bonus its quite nice.
You dont need Imp VW when you have felguard but 3 pts in Demonic Aegis would give your Fel Armor 30% more spell damage.
Imp Lifetap would save you some time for casting something else.

Felguard without Demonic Resilience is not very good.

Shadowburn is very nice spell for single talent point imo.

Otherwise I noticed you are alchemyst, do you use something like Adept's Elixir - I am never without that one. You can get some Blackened Basilisk too.

All those things you can do right now without grinding heaps of rep while feeling inadequate in your group.

Oh and btw, hp boost from your imp is nothing compared to damage your felguard can provide for you just for being out and plus dealing his own. My pet alone does around 9% of damage in usual groups, that is lot when you add it all up.
If your tank is going to die without that measle 500ish hp from imp..... find another tank.

Cleave is a no-no in instances in general, there is always some CC going around and you dont want to break it. And dont forget to keep your pet on passive.


Edited, Aug 10th 2007 8:33pm by Sethy
#13 Aug 11 2007 at 6:50 AM Rating: Decent
Thanks for those who gave constructive advice.

I do use Adept's Elixir in instances. I will buy some Blackened Basilisk, didn't know about it.

I will start using my Felguard again in instances. I am not sure how to respond to a group leader when they request my Imp. I probably wouldn't argue about that.

I use 3/3 Mana Feed. Is that too much?

I used to use Demonic Aegis but was told that 3 in Devastation was better.

Shadowburn, huh? Never used it. Will consider it.

I have had mixed opinions also re: Demonic Resilience.
#14 Aug 11 2007 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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1,571 posts
Try to explain that felguard is more overall damage plus CC, he can offtank in 5 mans like a breeze. But with Demonic Resilience - he gets 15% less damage.
Ask your group what kind of tank you have if 500 hp means so much to him at lvl 70.
Or just show up with felguard and say nothing.

I never got asked for imp, I pull him out myself when I know I will need threat reduction.
Last time someone mentioned succubus in some silly situation (someone that didnt know me, others know better than that) I told him I wasnt specced for her.

Mind, I do pull succubus and seduce if its absolutely necessary. But I have form of CC that will not only stop mob but get it to at least half hp if properly dotted and is not going to break if you hit it by mistake. Some people learn to appreciate that.

3/3 in mana feed is considered overkil by some, I personally liked it a lot. Only lately I changed a bit some of my talents and took 1 pt out of it and to be honest I miss it. But then I solo farm a lot.

Fel armor increases your damage up to 100. 30 more might not seem much but try adding it all up.
I am not that good in maths to explain why I prefere to have spell damage over crit (I do have some 19% crit buffed tho), I go by feeling and not by numbers, but I am sure some male specimen around here will be more than happy to calculate for you why Devastation might not be the best thing for demo lock :)

#15 Aug 11 2007 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
Oh well, lets see..
for starters, eliminate Improve Voidwalker from your build. Having Felguard Voidwalker is superfluous, except for a sac for a shield in arenas or maybe a DS in some weird situation, those moments do not justify gimping your overall strengths by 3 talent points.

Sethy is right in shadowburn being a nice talent, not that useful for raiding but it is in pvp and against thrash mobs and can be in other situations if you manage your shards right. Going over 10 in destruction and not getting it should be penalized with a kick in the ***.

About Demonic Resilience too, it will make your Felguard quite more hardy and reliable in many situations.
Besides you have too many points in Mana Feed, 2/3 should be enough for anything, even heaviest duty farming if you have the decency to help your pet kill the mobs.

And about Demonic Aegis, it will improved your individual performance far more than 3 measly points in devastation. If they told you else it was because they really dont have no idea, or because they expect you to keep up the Imp shadowbolt proc. Demonic Aegis 3/3 not only gives you 30 extra spell damage, but increases Fel armors total healing bonus to 26% (making crit heals heal you for over 50% extra), which is an incredible help for keeping you healthy and dealing damage like you should.
As an individual, you gain a much larger benefit, in a 5-man group unless heavily reliant on lock/Spriest damage the same applies. And if you are in a raid one of those destruction warlocks who love big numbers and stack crit should be the one dedicated to keeping Imp. Shadowbolt debuff up, freeing you to help yourself, your damage and your healers with Demonic Aegis while still participating in keeping the debuff up.
Summarizing... just swap devastation for Demonic Aegis and you wont regret it.


PS. Male specimen ? feminist del pro are we sethy ?

Edited, Aug 11th 2007 8:40pm by Azatodeth
#16 Aug 11 2007 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
It's kind of fun weighing all the minor differences of opinion around here. Thanks everyone. You all have been very helpful.

How does this look, then? http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warlock/talents.html?0500000000000000000000052030133250102531351505000010000000000000









Edited, Aug 11th 2007 8:15pm by medeardorff

Edited, Aug 11th 2007 8:15pm by medeardorff
#17 Aug 12 2007 at 12:33 AM Rating: Decent
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1,571 posts
That is almost my build, only I have 2 points out of Demonic Tactics in Supression now (just for trying), in Improved lifetap usually.


Azatodeth wrote:
Male specimen ? feminist del pro are we sethy ?


Not really..... I am just being a cat for being bad with maths :)
Well maybe not bad when I put some effort in it but it bores me so I dont if I dont absolutely have to.

#18 Aug 12 2007 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
Sethy wrote:

Not really..... I am just being a cat for being bad with maths :)
Well maybe not bad when I put some effort in it but it bores me so I dont if I dont absolutely have to.


Yeah I don't like maths much either but it does help in making logical choices.
Ah, and it does seem the slight irony in my comment was somewhat lost to you ;)


And hmmm.. I was kind of forgetting Imp. Life Tap there, it is a really nice talent for life/mana efficiency you might want to think about getting medeardorff
#19 Aug 13 2007 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
Azatodeth wrote:

And hmmm.. I was kind of forgetting Imp. Life Tap there, it is a really nice talent for life/mana efficiency you might want to think about getting medeardorff


Should I drop points from Demonic Resilience to pick it up?

Edited, Aug 13th 2007 9:51am by medeardorff
#20 Aug 13 2007 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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423 posts
Improved life tap is real nice but you can live without it ,if you plan to do more pvp I would keep that build you suggested.Resiliance is THE talent for pvp
#21 Aug 13 2007 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent

Take it in balance, Imp Life tap is useful for party performance and farming. You could take points out of DT which is mainly a party performance boost, or from DR which is a farming boost (and a bit of a boost for PvP too).

Your choice there (I personally don't think much of DT since they nerf-changed it to give crit% instead of flat damage%).
#22 Aug 13 2007 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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2,754 posts
seeing as you're low on the +damage currently, having a pet that can offtank if needed (through having demonic resiliance) is probably going to be a better choice than putting those 3 points into more damage in afliction or dest. the felguards cleave is a powerful ability. simply from in pvp if I spec felguard spec I've seen almost 2k cleave crits, so come raid buffed it can turn into one of your pets major dps abilities, with anguish turned off the felguard's mana isn't usually an issue either.
felguard is a fun spec in 5mans, especially when you control it properly so you move it out of aoe's or get it to charge mobs at the right times etc...
#23 Aug 13 2007 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
Ok, cool. I will stay with what I have for now. I do plan on some PVP.

Thanks everyone. You were all very helpful (if a little contradictory at times<g>), but that's to be expected. Ultimately it's finally my responsibility anyway.

BTW, when we downed Durn yesterday I did good damage so I was happy. Now the instances to up my +damage gear.
#24 Aug 13 2007 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
On trash mobs, I simply just hit it with a CoS, click my trinkets, and SB spam while finishing it off with a drain soul or shadowburn. And I'm a 43/7/11.

DoT's don't get their near effect on trash as it goes down so fast. On bosses, I pop a CoS, UA, Corruption, Immolate, and then Siphon Life. Cycling it, all i have to do is recast in the same order and throw around some shadowbolts.

Doing this, i was pulling 750 DPS on boss fights and had a total 1.32 million damage on a Shadow Labs run.

43/7/11 is a great spec, PvP, Pve, all around.
#25 Aug 13 2007 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
Armory: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shattered+Halls&n=Monganonga
#26 Aug 13 2007 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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1,571 posts
Azatodeth wrote:

Take it in balance, Imp Life tap is useful for party performance and farming.


I had it for long but since I dropped it I cant say its really essential for farming. I might drink bit more, but I doubt it.
Since I moved from easy to kill BEs in SMV to ethereals on Bashirs landing I find it normal to waste bit more mana.

Its nice talent to have indeed but one can do good without it too.
I was doing BM several times while I still had it and we failed, now after some time I went again and it was total breeze. I didnt even have to drink after every fight and could easily help on adds after each boss. Without Imp lifetap and with my measle 7.8 k unbuffed mana pool.
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