Is there enough hit rating gear pre 25raids?Follow

There is plenty of hit rating out there though most of it comes from 5-mans, heroics, and quest rewards. You can check my armory profile and see my hit gear (bit over 10%).

There are actually quite a few dps drops for DW fury warriors in kara that have hit rating. Both my rings, tier 4 gloves, the tier 4 helm, the cloak off aran, the neck off attumen, all have hit rating if your low on it.

As to your question I wouldn't go DW fury with bg/arena gear. I'd go with an arms/slam build.

You should never opt for +hit gems over +crit gems as a DW fury warrior unless you are under 8.5% total hit.

There is plenty of hit rating out there anyways. As to the doomplate set the two easiest pieces are the chestpiece out of arcatraz and the shoulders out of underbog heroic. The hands out of bloodfurnace heroic aren't that hard to come by either.

Back to my original point. Hit and crit are roughly interchangeable(sp?) until you hit your crit cap. With 8.5% hit (which you should get regaurdless so your abilities never miss) your crit cap is roughly 40% iirc. Crits are twice the dmg of normal hits, you receive roughly twice the rage, and they proc flurry.

Hit replaces miss and crit replaces hit on the table. An extra hit = normal dmg and the normal rage from that hit. Extra crit replaces that hit but = twice the amount of dmg and roughly twice the amount of rage. (it is also affected by impale if it is a yellow attack, but for simplicity sake we won't consider that). The two are interchangeable as far as dmg and rage gen go. The desiding factor is that the crit will proc flurry.

I used to think otherwise until Feral brought this revalation to my attention.

First off, you need +8.6% chance to hit for abilities to never miss. The downside is, your auto attacks will still miss [24 - 8.6 = 15.4]% of the time.

Now, if you're DW:ing with a Slam build, your yellow damage will be around 50% of your total damage done. Deep Wounds will be 3-6% of that. If you're DW:ing without utilizing Slam your yellow damage will be around 35% of your total DPS, 3-6% of that being Deep Wounds. We're going to exclude all bleeding effects for the sake of simplicity.



So, if you've got +8.6% chance to hit and 40% crit in the Slam case, you'll be getting a 30% increase to your yellow DPS, being a 15% damage increase to your total DPS. You'll be getting a 30% increase to your white DPS from crit, and a 15.4% decrease to your white DPS from hit. This lands you at a 9.22% increase to your white DPS, being a 4.61% increase to your total DPS. Basicly your DPS has went up by 19.61% (~20%).

If you've got +13% chance to hit and a 30% chance to crit in the Slam case, you'll be getting a 15% increase to your yellow DPS, being a 7.5% increase to your total DPS. You'll be getting a 15% increase to your white DPS from crit, and a 11% decrease from to your white DPS from hit. This lands you at a 7.85% increase to your white DPS, being a 3.925% to your total DPS. Basicly your DPS has went up by 11.425% (~11%).



Now, if you've got +8.6% chance to hit and 40% crit in the non-Slam case, you'll be getting a 14% increase to your yellow DPS, being a 4.9% increase to your total DPS. You'll be getting a 14% increase to your white DPS from crit, and a 15.4% decrease to your white DPS from hit. This lands you at a 4.144% increase to your white DPS, and a 2.072% increase to your total DPS. Basicly your DPS has went up by 6.972% (~7%).

If you've got +13% chance to hit and a 30% chance to crit in the non-Slam case, you'll be getting a 10.5% increase to your yellow DPS, being a 3.675% increase to your total DPS. You'll be getting a 19.5% increase to your white DPS from crit, and a 11% decrease to your white DPS from hit. This lands you at a 10.205% increase to your white DPS, being a 6.63325% increase to your total DPS. Basicly your DPS has went up by 10.30825% (~10%).



In summary: The more of your DPS that consists of white DPS, the better +hit is. The more of your DPS that consists of yellow DPS, the better +crit is (after +8.5% hit).

Edit: I forgot to factor in crit with the white DPS. Fixed.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2007 12:20am by Xordon

Erm, that would be if you utilize HS, in which case you'll have to slow down on yellow (and maybe even white) DPS anyway, due to the threat gen.

A DW Slam build is mainly just having 2 weapons of the same speed (preferably slow, like 2.6) and using Slam like you would when 2h:ing. I believe it does equivalent DPS to 2h Slam.

Ok, so assume you're at 45% yellow DPS, 0% being Bleed since you're at 40% crit and crit enough to prevent it from ticking. 45% of the DPS is yellow, and 40% of that crits. That's 18%. It increases those 18% by 20%, making them 21.6%. That's only a 3.6% increase to the yellow DPS, being a 1.62% increase to your total DPS, and only 0.81% increase per talent point. And if you've spent 3 points that contribute 0% DPS just to get that talent, you've theoreticly spent 5 points to get a 3.6% increase to your DPS (0.72% per point...).

That's not quite right. In theory, each % of crit is a 1% increase to DPS. And each % miss is a decrease of your DPS with the crit factor in. So, in theory, the calculation for a miss is 1.3% DPS per 1% if your crit rate is 30%. 1.4% decrease if your crit rate is 40%. And so on.

Aye, I forgot to include the crit rate in the white DPS, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong. I just wrote what the maths told me, but I found out what was missing and editted.

Ah yes... you're ally. You've had your pallies for ages. You know, it's funny: We've had pallies for a while now and they're still not very common in raids (being an a casual raiding guild). Anyway, assuming Salvation might be safe to do for you. But it isn't for me.


That wasn't just for simplicity... I could've swore you said it never makes it past the first tick, ie: never even ticks once = 0 damage...


Aye, I guess you're right... I'd have to do some math on it before saying for certain, but wouldn't Imp. WW be a candidate?


What you're not taking into consideration is that the missed attack had a 40% chance to be a crit. So assuming that it would've been a hit isn't right. Now, you could assume that 2/5 misses are crits, but you might as well just assume a 140% lost dmg every miss, being 700 in the case that you painted up.




What? I believe each of the cases in the end have a factor of DPS being raised. If it's still wrong... I guess I just don't know how to do it.

Yup, get some pallies in your raiding guild. Salv is the biggest dps increasing blessing there is. Assuming you can put out the dps to need it. Basically if you think about it, it allows you to do 30% more dps without pulling aggro.



When I say past the first tick I mean it won't tick a second time. With just a 33% crit rate you will "average" out to every third swing being a crit. With a 2.6 second main hand and a off hand of 1.8 sec or lower you will swing 3 times well before the seconds tic comes into play. Iirc deepwounds ticks every 3 seconds.



I take imp WW in my build. I could move one talent point to gain 2.5% increase in my offhand's dps but it's not worth it.

Imp WW is actually a better choice than 2 points in DW spec. I did the math awhile back but seeing as I'm too lazy to go look that thread up again. I'll give you the jist of it.

Bottom line of the math was that getting 1.5 more WW's per minute is more dps than a 5% increase in offhand dps. Considering that WW is affected by impale (I didn't inclued this in my calculations) it pulls ahead even more.



Negative, the hit table works the same for us as it does for mobs. Dodge and parry are additive, not "you can only parry what you don't dodge". Same goes for hit and crit. Single roll goes through the hit table and if it lands in your crit percentage it's a crit. Hit and crit are two seperate outcomes that don't depend on each other directly.

I say directly because your hit rating determines your crit cap. The table truncates just like the mob hit table.

Dodge
Parry
Block
Miss
Glancing blow
Crit
Hit

Positioning takes care of block and parry. Hit rating replaces miss on the table and Crit rating replaces hit. You can add more crit and increase dmg until you reach the point where crit is truncated off the table, then you must add hit before you can increase your crit% more.



Whats wrong in your statement is this:



Increasing crit and hit with AP and mob mitigation staying the same will only increase your dps, white and yellow. The percent of your total dps contributed by white dmg can fluctuate but the dmg done by white hits, white dps, will only increase.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2007 10:54am by Jimpadan