"ZOMG THIS ROGUE IS TOTALLY STALKING ME!!!1!!11!"
Very interesting idea, though.
I'm thinking that there should be synergy (D2 term) between Fleet Footed and Camoflague.
Having that increased running speed would help greatly against ****'s that try to kite.
I'm a 41/0/20 fan, so that's my 2 cents. hehe
I'm kind of thinking that there should be a skill called "Shadow Clone", which, using the targeting system of Distract, would allow you to cast a clone that looks just like you, to appear and essentially distract the target. This clone could have a set number of hit points, and potentially the ability to attack for 50% of your normal melee damage? A 5/5 Talent could make that fare enough, I'd say. 10/20/30/40/50% of damage. The clone could last for lets say, 10 seconds, and is essentially a way to not only cause a little bit of added damage, but help add confusion to the enemy, which can help us greatly.
I think it'd be a unique idea. ^.^
I was thinking of how the Assassins in Diablo 2 have a Shadow Master pet, when I thought of this. My brother plays D2 on my desktop about 6 feet away from me. I'm gonna keep looking at their skills. ^.^
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Yoshiiii- I've got another idea for Shadow Clone-
remember mirror image (or whatever it was called) from W3? What if a rogue's shadow clone, as you said, looked exactly like the rogue...except it has 1hp and does no damage. Why? Well, the idea for a shadow clone would be to create confusion, right? What if the shadow clone moved in a mirrored axis to you?
Imagine- I'm 1v1 with any class and I wanna get behind them. *poof*- my shadow clone appears. While i move around them to the right, the shadow clone moves around them to the left. The idea wouldn't be OP because it's cutting down your chances by 50% and, due to the 1hp, it wouldn't be any use on Mages (frost nova) or other AOE opponents. Just an idea...
Also, for the person who suggested a tanking talent tree...wouldn't that detract from the whole point of rolling a rogue? sneaking around quietly would kinda lose it's viability if you're doing it in loud plate armor. Leather soled boots on stone floor = quiet. Plate boots on stone floor = wake the dead.
remember mirror image (or whatever it was called) from W3? What if a rogue's shadow clone, as you said, looked exactly like the rogue...except it has 1hp and does no damage. Why? Well, the idea for a shadow clone would be to create confusion, right? What if the shadow clone moved in a mirrored axis to you?
Imagine- I'm 1v1 with any class and I wanna get behind them. *poof*- my shadow clone appears. While i move around them to the right, the shadow clone moves around them to the left. The idea wouldn't be OP because it's cutting down your chances by 50% and, due to the 1hp, it wouldn't be any use on Mages (frost nova) or other AOE opponents. Just an idea...
Also, for the person who suggested a tanking talent tree...wouldn't that detract from the whole point of rolling a rogue? sneaking around quietly would kinda lose it's viability if you're doing it in loud plate armor. Leather soled boots on stone floor = quiet. Plate boots on stone floor = wake the dead.
Pretty sure he means an evasion tank type character.
High dodge and parry to mitigate otherwise horribly painful death.
Also probably moves that debuff your target for lowered hit rate/increased glancing blows etc.
The only way I see this working is it being extremely gear dependent but might be difficult to do without falling into the same trap that happened with ninjas in FFXI.
High dodge and parry to mitigate otherwise horribly painful death.
Also probably moves that debuff your target for lowered hit rate/increased glancing blows etc.
The only way I see this working is it being extremely gear dependent but might be difficult to do without falling into the same trap that happened with ninjas in FFXI.
Scholar
45 posts
RE: KnifeInUrEye's comment about rogue's having a tanking tree being against the concept of a rogue...why do we have dps war's then? Traditionally in mmorpgs war's do crap damage because they are the ultimate meat shield, but in this game they can also do serious dps (now).
Why shouldn't rogues be able to tank? Give them talent options like warriors (increase armor/defense at the expense of dps, give them a talent to use mail armor, etc...even if this is only an OT situation it gives the class some variability. Theoretically, rogues would make great bodyguards. Cunning and tricks associated with the rogue class would just make their ways of tanking more interesting, think of the possibilities.
Even the new deathknight is essentially a dps-tank that defends with a 2H...
Honestly, I have no interest in tanking, I've lvl'd a war to 51 before swapping to a shammy cause it was just lacking in fun factor. But stupid blizz never made a pure tank spec class (though oddly hunters/mages/locks/rogues have only dps (arguably dps/cc) trees) and so at least in my experience, prot warriors are few and far between. Why not increase the number of classes that can be tanks? Granted, the new deathknight class may solve this issue, as everybody and their grandma is gonna have one (but just watch people spec straight dps on them rather than tanking lol).
really it's not that great an idea, but i think it could potentially be a more fun tanking class than warriors. Weird abilities like "Enmeshed" - throw a net on the target to reduce their attack speed by 20% for 20sec., or, "Smokescreen" - increase dodge and parry by X for X sec. I think cool abilities like these could revitalize the tanking class. But whatever..
Edited, Aug 12th 2007 4:39pm by Onogg
Why shouldn't rogues be able to tank? Give them talent options like warriors (increase armor/defense at the expense of dps, give them a talent to use mail armor, etc...even if this is only an OT situation it gives the class some variability. Theoretically, rogues would make great bodyguards. Cunning and tricks associated with the rogue class would just make their ways of tanking more interesting, think of the possibilities.
Even the new deathknight is essentially a dps-tank that defends with a 2H...
Honestly, I have no interest in tanking, I've lvl'd a war to 51 before swapping to a shammy cause it was just lacking in fun factor. But stupid blizz never made a pure tank spec class (though oddly hunters/mages/locks/rogues have only dps (arguably dps/cc) trees) and so at least in my experience, prot warriors are few and far between. Why not increase the number of classes that can be tanks? Granted, the new deathknight class may solve this issue, as everybody and their grandma is gonna have one (but just watch people spec straight dps on them rather than tanking lol).
really it's not that great an idea, but i think it could potentially be a more fun tanking class than warriors. Weird abilities like "Enmeshed" - throw a net on the target to reduce their attack speed by 20% for 20sec., or, "Smokescreen" - increase dodge and parry by X for X sec. I think cool abilities like these could revitalize the tanking class. But whatever..
Edited, Aug 12th 2007 4:39pm by Onogg
Yeah, I kinda like the idea of an evasion based tank.. rather than high armor. We wouldn't lose our rogueiness and it'd be something different to do rather than DPS, but like Raisse said it would probably fall into the same hole Ninja did from FFXI.
I liked Yoshii's Idea of a shadow clone you can spawn in a dristracting manner.
What would be really ace is if the shadow clone had a very low stealth level - the idea is you would throw your clone infront of your opponent & they would spot it & then make a move to attack it. It could also have a incipacitating effect that shares Diminishing returns with sap / gouge. Something like... When your shadow clone is killed your opponent is shocked by the discovery it wasn't real & is momentarily stunned.
Wheras distract will stop people, this will actually incapacitate them for 3 seconds. Allowing you time to get an easy shadowstep. Unlike distract it can be used on targets in combat (Since it doesn't force them to attack it), but Instead it can't be used whilst you are in combat.
It would also be a great escaping tactic, say you gouge>vanish (gouge to avoid aoe's being spammed to get you out of stealth half a second later). Then you could throw your clone a little off to your left / right & your opponent would charge after that in completely the wrong direction & get stunned in the process.
Also:
Remove Shadowstep from the Global cooldown. Nothing is more irritating than Shadowstepping onto someone who walks backwards over you whilst you are still spamming an opener... Although i've long since given up shadowstep.
A finishing move that Ignores armor and is not so damn tricky to use.
Rupture kiting is a *****.
Expose armor is a drain on combo points for a small return - at least make it stack with something like attack power, after all The harder you hit them the more armor you should technically expose right?
Envenom requires 5/5 in vile poisons, a stack of 5 deadly poisons up (which ignores armor anyway) and the consumption of those 5 stacks as well as the fact that you lose total Crowd control over that target.
Serrated blades needs some heavy subtlety investment at the expense of some very powerful alternative options.
A spammable stealth without dodgy macros...
Replacing blade twisting with something people might actually use. Or give us a reason to use it...
Maybe 51 point combat talent that builds off Blade flurry. So rogues can do some more "AOE" damage in instances.
Less ugly clothes as well...
I will probably think of more to rant about later. But those all seem like valid points right?
What would be really ace is if the shadow clone had a very low stealth level - the idea is you would throw your clone infront of your opponent & they would spot it & then make a move to attack it. It could also have a incipacitating effect that shares Diminishing returns with sap / gouge. Something like... When your shadow clone is killed your opponent is shocked by the discovery it wasn't real & is momentarily stunned.
Wheras distract will stop people, this will actually incapacitate them for 3 seconds. Allowing you time to get an easy shadowstep. Unlike distract it can be used on targets in combat (Since it doesn't force them to attack it), but Instead it can't be used whilst you are in combat.
It would also be a great escaping tactic, say you gouge>vanish (gouge to avoid aoe's being spammed to get you out of stealth half a second later). Then you could throw your clone a little off to your left / right & your opponent would charge after that in completely the wrong direction & get stunned in the process.
Also:
Remove Shadowstep from the Global cooldown. Nothing is more irritating than Shadowstepping onto someone who walks backwards over you whilst you are still spamming an opener... Although i've long since given up shadowstep.
A finishing move that Ignores armor and is not so damn tricky to use.
Rupture kiting is a *****.
Expose armor is a drain on combo points for a small return - at least make it stack with something like attack power, after all The harder you hit them the more armor you should technically expose right?
Envenom requires 5/5 in vile poisons, a stack of 5 deadly poisons up (which ignores armor anyway) and the consumption of those 5 stacks as well as the fact that you lose total Crowd control over that target.
Serrated blades needs some heavy subtlety investment at the expense of some very powerful alternative options.
A spammable stealth without dodgy macros...
Replacing blade twisting with something people might actually use. Or give us a reason to use it...
Maybe 51 point combat talent that builds off Blade flurry. So rogues can do some more "AOE" damage in instances.
Less ugly clothes as well...
I will probably think of more to rant about later. But those all seem like valid points right?
A clone of you that attacked when you did but caused no additional damage and moved on a mirrored axis would be great. Make them like totems and undamageable by AoE and make it an ability you can activate in stealth and it lasts until your clone is killed. Even make it to where you could temporarily pilot your clone elsewhere. Would be fitting to the nature of the rogue class, and would be a great asset. Imagine: someone tries to kite you and ends up running closer to you as they realize they're kiting your shadow.
And as for tanking, I hope not. Rogues are not supposed to be tanks, it's against the core of the class.
And as for tanking, I hope not. Rogues are not supposed to be tanks, it's against the core of the class.
Thank you Shaolinz! I'm not sure others truly grasped how awesome the clone idea would be. I like the idea of giving is a slightly lower stealth rating than the character to make sure it's spotted. If it's immune to AoE that'd be awesome, but it might make it OP.
If we have something that increases our armor, gives us a haste rating with two handers (and allows us to use them), in addition to all our current abilities (a 15 second guaranteed cleave, a 15 second "whirlwind" (AR...dervish of doom...)), wouldn't we just be warriors?
The reason rogues are cool is because we push out crazy dps while still being able to do our sneaky stuff. We can dump all our aggro then get another CS or other opener. Warriors are closing in (or overtaking on some servers) our dps. Big deal? I fail to see them as plate wearing rogues. Yeah- they can hit hard, beat the bag out of people and live a long, long time but they can't do the cool stuff we do.
You want the "best" pvp character in wow right now? Roll a warrior or a lock. You want a character who is fun to play and could be the best pvp? You know what you should roll.
If we have something that increases our armor, gives us a haste rating with two handers (and allows us to use them), in addition to all our current abilities (a 15 second guaranteed cleave, a 15 second "whirlwind" (AR...dervish of doom...)), wouldn't we just be warriors?
The reason rogues are cool is because we push out crazy dps while still being able to do our sneaky stuff. We can dump all our aggro then get another CS or other opener. Warriors are closing in (or overtaking on some servers) our dps. Big deal? I fail to see them as plate wearing rogues. Yeah- they can hit hard, beat the bag out of people and live a long, long time but they can't do the cool stuff we do.
You want the "best" pvp character in wow right now? Roll a warrior or a lock. You want a character who is fun to play and could be the best pvp? You know what you should roll.
On Jul 31st,
On Aug 8th, in the same thread,
Looks like Yoshiiii is my Shadow Clone. :)
Prikker wrote:
To upgrade the subtlety tree:
Shadow Split
Releases your shadow from your body. Shadow lasts 8 seconds. During this time, you have control over your shadow but not over your body. Does not break stealth. Cooldown: 3 minutes.
Shadow Split
Releases your shadow from your body. Shadow lasts 8 seconds. During this time, you have control over your shadow but not over your body. Does not break stealth. Cooldown: 3 minutes.
On Aug 8th, in the same thread,
Yoshiiii wrote:
I'm kind of thinking that there should be a skill called "Shadow Clone", which, using the targeting system of Distract, would allow you to cast a clone that looks just like you, to appear and essentially distract the target.
Looks like Yoshiiii is my Shadow Clone. :)
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