Hey all,
I am currently specced full Protection and @ 56. Seeing as Outland is up and coming, I thought I might respect and try Prot/Ret. Ret to some nice damage while soloing, and Protection for Reckoning, and incase I need to switch to sword and board, I would still get some nice bonus’s
Hope its alright
Let me know what you think… if it will work.. if I am out of my mind.. or if I should just stay protection.
Thanks a bunch, any and all comments appreciated.
Jhua
Edited, Jul 26th 2007 1:58pm by Jhua
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- Closing into 58 - may be respec'n?!?
Closing into 58 - may be respec'n?!?Follow
Tbh, I tried out ret/prot in the mid 60s to see reckoning with SoC and I really wasnt all that impressed.
This is mainly due to the fact that as ret, your multimob fighting is generally kept to a minimum, at least it was for me. And for reckoning to really be great you gotta have more than one mob attacking you. 1 mob = 10% chance on their hit to proc reckoning for you and it never procced often enough. I vote to save that talent for the prot pallies who are always looking for multimobs.
i used like 43 points in ret and the remaining in holy.
Then just grab all the warrior/ret pally specific gear you find in the outlands. There's lots.
Edited, Jul 26th 2007 11:03am by KTurner
This is mainly due to the fact that as ret, your multimob fighting is generally kept to a minimum, at least it was for me. And for reckoning to really be great you gotta have more than one mob attacking you. 1 mob = 10% chance on their hit to proc reckoning for you and it never procced often enough. I vote to save that talent for the prot pallies who are always looking for multimobs.
i used like 43 points in ret and the remaining in holy.
Then just grab all the warrior/ret pally specific gear you find in the outlands. There's lots.
Edited, Jul 26th 2007 11:03am by KTurner
With your recommended build, I don't think you'll end up doing what you want to do. Deep prot will give you a lot of longevity in battles, allowing you to grind longer... Deep ret gives you fast killing. Shallow in both usually means sucking all around. Have a look at this... it may not be the best, but it gives you a lot of the protection essentials for your level, but a little boost in damage and grinding longevity from ret
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=qZVhxIx0zgZVf0t0z
I don't know a lot about making a more dominant retribution build, but I've used something like the above link in outlands when I first got there and I plowed through fairly quickly (I've since respeced to focus on tanking, and can grind for a long time... just dont' kill as fast).
Hope this helps!
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=qZVhxIx0zgZVf0t0z
I don't know a lot about making a more dominant retribution build, but I've used something like the above link in outlands when I first got there and I plowed through fairly quickly (I've since respeced to focus on tanking, and can grind for a long time... just dont' kill as fast).
Hope this helps!
Well part of it depends on equipment. But I plan to be heading to outland with this build. But I also have a decent shield and great protection weapon also to do this with. This is besides the mithril shield spike and +7 damage enchant on the axe.
I'm really disappointed in you, Jhua... I would have thought you were one of the newer names on this Pally forum I could count on not to post a "rate my build" thread... especially one like this that's already been through the grinder several times. I suppose I expected too much.
There are several negative issues with your build, the most obvious of which KTurner pointed out.
A second issue with the Reckoning/SoC combo is that SoC demands the slowest possible weapons for maximum damage. That works directly against Reckoning, should it trigger, since you are likely to get only two extra swings, a rare three at the absolute tops. And that's assuming the best case scenario without any interference.
Furthermore, as we all know Paladins' white damage is complete crap. Retribution Paladins' is better, but even they're relying on holy damage and Seals (SoC) for most of their damage. Reckoning is a great skill not because of the extra white-damage, but because of the Seals that can and will proc off the extra swings. SoC, however, will not proc any more often with Reckoning up. It's still 7 PPM regardless. It may give you more chances for SoC to proc and make it slightly more reliable, but if you compare Reckoning to the alternative, Crusader Strike, it's still not as reliable or damaging.
And lastly... Assuming a party is going to let you DD for them, you're going to find Reckoning next to useless since you shouldn't be getting hit often enough for it to trigger on a regular basis. In fact, it shouldn't ever be up at all unless the mobs you're fighting have some kind of AoE attack.
There are several negative issues with your build, the most obvious of which KTurner pointed out.
KTurner wrote:
This is mainly due to the fact that as ret, your multimob fighting is generally kept to a minimum, at least it was for me. And for reckoning to really be great you gotta have more than one mob attacking you. 1 mob = 10% chance on their hit to proc reckoning for you and it never procced often enough. I vote to save that talent for the prot pallies who are always looking for multimobs.
A second issue with the Reckoning/SoC combo is that SoC demands the slowest possible weapons for maximum damage. That works directly against Reckoning, should it trigger, since you are likely to get only two extra swings, a rare three at the absolute tops. And that's assuming the best case scenario without any interference.
Furthermore, as we all know Paladins' white damage is complete crap. Retribution Paladins' is better, but even they're relying on holy damage and Seals (SoC) for most of their damage. Reckoning is a great skill not because of the extra white-damage, but because of the Seals that can and will proc off the extra swings. SoC, however, will not proc any more often with Reckoning up. It's still 7 PPM regardless. It may give you more chances for SoC to proc and make it slightly more reliable, but if you compare Reckoning to the alternative, Crusader Strike, it's still not as reliable or damaging.
And lastly... Assuming a party is going to let you DD for them, you're going to find Reckoning next to useless since you shouldn't be getting hit often enough for it to trigger on a regular basis. In fact, it shouldn't ever be up at all unless the mobs you're fighting have some kind of AoE attack.
Quote:
Furthermore, as we all know Paladins' white damage is complete crap. Retribution Paladins' is better, but even they're relying on holy damage and Seals (SoC) for most of their damage. Reckoning is a great skill not because of the extra white-damage, but because of the Seals that can and will proc off the extra swings. SoC, however, will not proc any more often with Reckoning up. It's still 7 PPM regardless. It may give you more chances for SoC to proc and make it slightly more reliable, ...
Are you sure about this? Way i understand SoC and PPM is that it more or less assigns a chance on hit to the ability which sticks with the weapon regardless of hastes or extra attacks.
so like a 3.8 speed weapon would have a [7/(60/3.8)]=44% chance on hit to proc. So every attack has a 44% chance to proc SoC.
KTurner wrote:
Tbh, I tried out ret/prot in the mid 60s to see reckoning with SoC and I really wasnt all that impressed.
Ditto, think it took me all of 1 day to respec.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
KTurner wrote:
Quote:
Furthermore, as we all know Paladins' white damage is complete crap. Retribution Paladins' is better, but even they're relying on holy damage and Seals (SoC) for most of their damage. Reckoning is a great skill not because of the extra white-damage, but because of the Seals that can and will proc off the extra swings. SoC, however, will not proc any more often with Reckoning up. It's still 7 PPM regardless. It may give you more chances for SoC to proc and make it slightly more reliable, ...
Are you sure about this? Way i understand SoC and PPM is that it more or less assigns a chance on hit to the ability which sticks with the weapon regardless of hastes or extra attacks.
so like a 3.8 speed weapon would have a [7/(60/3.8)]=44% chance on hit to proc. So every attack has a 44% chance to proc SoC.
If that were the case, I believe Blizzard would have written the tooltip for SoC the same way they wrote Windfury. "Has an x% chance to proc off of any attack." Yet when Blizzard has addressed SoC in blue posts on the O-Boards, they've repeatedly used the terminology "7 PPM". The way I understand it as its been put by the reps there, SoC will proc an average of seven times a minute regardless of how often the Paladin swings, haste rating, etc.
If it were a flat % chance per hit, would we even bother stressing the use of slow weapons for Retribution Paladins? I mean, otherwise the law of averages would tend to tell us that slow or fast is completely immaterial since more procs with the weaker, faster weapons would even out with the heavier hits from the slower, stronger weapons over time. Thus, faster weapons would be better for everything other than PvP since they're more reliable and less bursty. Yet that's not the case. The reason we stress weapons with slower swing speeds is because they'll allow for a larger hit when it does proc, thereby squeezing the most damage out of the Seal and bringing in more overall damage over time.
I mean... if you want to test that theory and show me the numbers, I'll believe anything you tell me. But what I just laid down is the pretty widely accepted explanation, so... I'll stick with that until I see some math showing otherwise.
Thank you everyone that posted, I do apologize for post a ‘rate this build’ post. I was just very curious to see if something like this would work, and I guess being protection for almost 20lvl now, I kinda miss the big numbers that ret would give you.
Furthermore, I will stay protection specced into outlands, seeing how it would be a waste of money to try this build out.
Thanks again for clearing this up for me
Regards
Jhua
Furthermore, I will stay protection specced into outlands, seeing how it would be a waste of money to try this build out.
Thanks again for clearing this up for me
Regards
Jhua
Gaudion wrote:
KTurner wrote:
Quote:
Furthermore, as we all know Paladins' white damage is complete crap. Retribution Paladins' is better, but even they're relying on holy damage and Seals (SoC) for most of their damage. Reckoning is a great skill not because of the extra white-damage, but because of the Seals that can and will proc off the extra swings. SoC, however, will not proc any more often with Reckoning up. It's still 7 PPM regardless. It may give you more chances for SoC to proc and make it slightly more reliable, ...
Are you sure about this? Way i understand SoC and PPM is that it more or less assigns a chance on hit to the ability which sticks with the weapon regardless of hastes or extra attacks.
so like a 3.8 speed weapon would have a [7/(60/3.8)]=44% chance on hit to proc. So every attack has a 44% chance to proc SoC.
If that were the case, I believe Blizzard would have written the tooltip for SoC the same way they wrote Windfury. "Has an x% chance to proc off of any attack." Yet when Blizzard has addressed SoC in blue posts on the O-Boards, they've repeatedly used the terminology "7 PPM". The way I understand it as its been put by the reps there, SoC will proc an average of seven times a minute regardless of how often the Paladin swings, haste rating, etc.
If it were a flat % chance per hit, would we even bother stressing the use of slow weapons for Retribution Paladins? I mean, otherwise the law of averages would tend to tell us that slow or fast is completely immaterial since more procs with the weaker, faster weapons would even out with the heavier hits from the slower, stronger weapons over time. Thus, faster weapons would be better for everything other than PvP since they're more reliable and less bursty. Yet that's not the case. The reason we stress weapons with slower swing speeds is because they'll allow for a larger hit when it does proc, thereby squeezing the most damage out of the Seal and bringing in more overall damage over time.
I mean... if you want to test that theory and show me the numbers, I'll believe anything you tell me. But what I just laid down is the pretty widely accepted explanation, so... I'll stick with that until I see some math showing otherwise.
Well, no you still want a slow weapon as i explained with that little formula.
If you, say, get a 2.0 speed weapon the effective chance on hit = [7/(60/2)]= 23% chance on hit. So not only does it have a lower chance to proc, but is also weaker.
Personally, i've always heard it explained this way, and have never seen anything offical on it at all. I definitely would NOT like to test it though. ha
KTurner wrote:
so like a 3.8 speed weapon would have a [7/(60/3.8)]=44% chance on hit to proc. So every attack has a 44% chance to proc SoC.
Your formula is right but it's not a "chance on hit to proc" its a chance of the proc occurring.
You now that's its going to proc 7 times, you're to swing your weapon 15.8 times, so that's a 44% chance of SoC proccing on your swing.
KTurner wrote:
If you, say, get a 2.0 speed weapon the effective chance on hit = [7/(60/2)]= 23% chance on hit. So not only does it have a lower chance to proc, but is also weaker.
not a lower chance, it will still proc 7 times. It will proc on 23% of your 30 swings
It will proc 7 times a minute no matter what, weapon speed doesn't affect it
Edited, Jul 27th 2007 11:40am by chood
KTurner wrote:
If you, say, get a 2.0 speed weapon the effective chance on hit = [7/(60/2)]= 23% chance on hit. So not only does it have a lower chance to proc, but is also weaker.
Right, but you're still swinging more so it should even out over time. Anyways... I like chood's explanation here the best, so I vote we go with that one.
chood wrote:
KTurner wrote:
If you, say, get a 2.0 speed weapon the effective chance on hit = [7/(60/2)]= 23% chance on hit. So not only does it have a lower chance to proc, but is also weaker.
not a lower chance, but it will still proc 7 times. It will proc on fewer swings because you are swinging 30 times
Yes, lower chance. chance = %.
Like i said, thats always how ive known it to work and havent seen anything official on it.
My sources?
http://theholylight.wordpress.com/2007/07/02/procs-per-minute/
Quote:
Haste Effects and Procs!
Attack Speed increasing effects DO NOT decrease your % chance to proc, your chance to proc an attack is based off your BASE weapon speed, so increasing the attack speed does not have any effect on your chance to hit.
Haste effects increase your PPM over the course of a minute.
For example: If you are using a 3.8 speed weapon with a 44% chance to proc Seal of Command and you receive a 30% increase to attack speed.
You are attacking at a 2.66 speed rate, if you are attacking every 2.66 seconds, but you are still maintaining a 44% chance to proc Seal of Command via 3.8 weapon. You PPM will effectively be raised.
Extra Attacks, Extra Procs, Extra DPS.
Extra attacks too will raise your PPM, your Procs Per Minute is based on the idea that you will be attacking once ever 3.8 seconds, however if you throw in extra attacks via windfury, hand of justice, etc. You will be adding in extra attacks that will be able to proc your Seal.
For instance if you attack every 3.8 seconds over the course of a minute, and gain 1 extra attack through Hand of Justice and proc a Seal of Command off that extra attack, your PPM would be one more than it should for that minute, giving you 8 PPM ( 7.8 approximately) for that minutes duration
Reckoning, Windfury, and Seal of Command
Now when you have case where you have Seals and extra attacks such as Reckoning or Windfury, Seal of Command CANNOT double proc, it has a chance to proc off both attacks but can only proc off ONE of the two attacks, so while Reckoning and Windfury procs give you a higher chance to proc Seal of Command, you cannot double proc it.
Hand of Justice is the only “Extra Attack†means I have seen where you can double proc Seal of Command, and that is probably because it’s only 2-1% chance.
Attack Speed increasing effects DO NOT decrease your % chance to proc, your chance to proc an attack is based off your BASE weapon speed, so increasing the attack speed does not have any effect on your chance to hit.
Haste effects increase your PPM over the course of a minute.
For example: If you are using a 3.8 speed weapon with a 44% chance to proc Seal of Command and you receive a 30% increase to attack speed.
You are attacking at a 2.66 speed rate, if you are attacking every 2.66 seconds, but you are still maintaining a 44% chance to proc Seal of Command via 3.8 weapon. You PPM will effectively be raised.
Extra Attacks, Extra Procs, Extra DPS.
Extra attacks too will raise your PPM, your Procs Per Minute is based on the idea that you will be attacking once ever 3.8 seconds, however if you throw in extra attacks via windfury, hand of justice, etc. You will be adding in extra attacks that will be able to proc your Seal.
For instance if you attack every 3.8 seconds over the course of a minute, and gain 1 extra attack through Hand of Justice and proc a Seal of Command off that extra attack, your PPM would be one more than it should for that minute, giving you 8 PPM ( 7.8 approximately) for that minutes duration
Reckoning, Windfury, and Seal of Command
Now when you have case where you have Seals and extra attacks such as Reckoning or Windfury, Seal of Command CANNOT double proc, it has a chance to proc off both attacks but can only proc off ONE of the two attacks, so while Reckoning and Windfury procs give you a higher chance to proc Seal of Command, you cannot double proc it.
Hand of Justice is the only “Extra Attack†means I have seen where you can double proc Seal of Command, and that is probably because it’s only 2-1% chance.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Procs_per_minute
Quote:
The procs-per-minute rating of a given weapon ability assumes that only auto-attacks ("white damage" attacks) are made with that weapon. In practice, an ability on the weapon equipped in the main hand can proc more often than its PPM rating, due to the fact that instant attacks (Sinister Strike, Overpower, Whirlwind, etc.) are all assumed to be made with this weapon.
As an example, say a warrior has a Crusader enchant on the weapon in his main hand, and is involved in a long fight where he has essentially unlimited rage and (miraculously) never misses his target.
Weapon 1 has a speed of 2.0 sec. and is enchanted with Crusader which has a rated PPM = 1. Hence, the chance for Crusader to proc on any given hit with this weapon is 1/30.
Weapon 2 has a speed of 3.0 sec. and is also enchanted with Crusader. The chance for Crusader to proc on any given hit with this weapon will be 1/20.
Every minute, the warrior does 10 Bloodthirsts*, 6 Whirlwinds, and 4 Overpowers, for a total of 20 instant attacks. With weapon 1, he will do 30 white hits, for a total of 50 Hits per minute. With weapon 2, he will do 20 white hits, for a total of 40 Hits per minute.
For weapon 1 the chance to proc is 1/30, the warrior does a total of 50 hits per minute which makes the actual PPM 50/30 = 1.67.
For weapon 2 the chance to proc is 1/20, the warrior does a total of 40 hits per minute which makes the actual PPM 40/20 = 2.0.
Therefore, the slower the weapon you wield in the main hand, the more often any PPM-rated ability on it will proc.
All these calculations are made with no flurry included.
As an example, say a warrior has a Crusader enchant on the weapon in his main hand, and is involved in a long fight where he has essentially unlimited rage and (miraculously) never misses his target.
Weapon 1 has a speed of 2.0 sec. and is enchanted with Crusader which has a rated PPM = 1. Hence, the chance for Crusader to proc on any given hit with this weapon is 1/30.
Weapon 2 has a speed of 3.0 sec. and is also enchanted with Crusader. The chance for Crusader to proc on any given hit with this weapon will be 1/20.
Every minute, the warrior does 10 Bloodthirsts*, 6 Whirlwinds, and 4 Overpowers, for a total of 20 instant attacks. With weapon 1, he will do 30 white hits, for a total of 50 Hits per minute. With weapon 2, he will do 20 white hits, for a total of 40 Hits per minute.
For weapon 1 the chance to proc is 1/30, the warrior does a total of 50 hits per minute which makes the actual PPM 50/30 = 1.67.
For weapon 2 the chance to proc is 1/20, the warrior does a total of 40 hits per minute which makes the actual PPM 40/20 = 2.0.
Therefore, the slower the weapon you wield in the main hand, the more often any PPM-rated ability on it will proc.
All these calculations are made with no flurry included.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=02E116744629E22C67716D0051DBD316?topicId=108211984&sid=1
Various posters
http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=400315
Quote:
PPM Procs like Mongoose have a proc rate, say 1 PPM, which is based on your normal attack for that weapon. The chance per successful attack is based on this so that the PPM will average out as expected.
Change the attack speed OR use the weapon for special attacks and the actual proc rate increases.
OH Weapons do not proc -less- often than this, MH weapons can proc more often because you use it for your special attacks, Mutilate and Shiv apart ofc.
Because Mongoose as a Haste effect it actually causes Mongoose procs to occur more frequently. Obvious this only happens with the other weapon if you have dual Mongoose.
Add BF, SnD, AR and Haste Rating into the mixture and Mongoose procs a lot more often than 1 PPM would suggest, OH Mongoose procs included.
Another reason to get to the Hit Cap, this affects your proc rate too.
Change the attack speed OR use the weapon for special attacks and the actual proc rate increases.
OH Weapons do not proc -less- often than this, MH weapons can proc more often because you use it for your special attacks, Mutilate and Shiv apart ofc.
Because Mongoose as a Haste effect it actually causes Mongoose procs to occur more frequently. Obvious this only happens with the other weapon if you have dual Mongoose.
Add BF, SnD, AR and Haste Rating into the mixture and Mongoose procs a lot more often than 1 PPM would suggest, OH Mongoose procs included.
Another reason to get to the Hit Cap, this affects your proc rate too.
but no, nothing offical.
edit: heh one link does say that reckoning doesnt cause SoC procs though :P but the discussion is beyond that i think.
Edited, Jul 27th 2007 9:01am by KTurner
KTurner wrote:
chood wrote:
KTurner wrote:
If you, say, get a 2.0 speed weapon the effective chance on hit = [7/(60/2)]= 23% chance on hit. So not only does it have a lower chance to proc, but is also weaker.
not a lower chance, but it will still proc 7 times. It will proc on fewer swings because you are swinging 30 times
Yes, lower chance. chance = %.
It's not a chance, it will proc 7 times. It's a static number
KTurner wrote:
Like i said, thats always how ive known it to work and havent seen anything official on it.
My sources?
http://theholylight.wordpress.com/2007/07/02/procs-per-minute/
[quote]Haste Effects and Procs!
Attack Speed increasing effects DO NOT decrease your % chance to proc, your chance to proc an attack is based off your BASE weapon speed, so increasing the attack speed does not have any effect on your chance to hit.
Haste effects increase your PPM over the course of a minute.
For example: If you are using a 3.8 speed weapon with a 44% chance to proc Seal of Command and you receive a 30% increase to attack speed.
You are attacking at a 2.66 speed rate, if you are attacking every 2.66 seconds, but you are still maintaining a 44% chance to proc Seal of Command via 3.8 weapon. You PPM will effectively be raised.
Extra Attacks, Extra Procs, Extra DPS.
Extra attacks too will raise your PPM, your Procs Per Minute is based on the idea that you will be attacking once ever 3.8 seconds, however if you throw in extra attacks via windfury, hand of justice, etc. You will be adding in extra attacks that will be able to proc your Seal.
For instance if you attack every 3.8 seconds over the course of a minute, and gain 1 extra attack through Hand of Justice and proc a Seal of Command off that extra attack, your PPM would be one more than it should for that minute, giving you 8 PPM ( 7.8 approximately) for that minutes duration
Reckoning, Windfury, and Seal of Command
Now when you have case where you have Seals and extra attacks such as Reckoning or Windfury, Seal of Command CANNOT double proc, it has a chance to proc off both attacks but can only proc off ONE of the two attacks, so while Reckoning and Windfury procs give you a higher chance to proc Seal of Command, you cannot double proc it.
Hand of Justice is the only “Extra Attack†means I have seen where you can double proc Seal of Command, and that is probably because it’s only 2-1% chance.
Salud is wrong
KTurner wrote:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Procs_per_minute
[quote]The procs-per-minute rating of a given weapon ability assumes that only auto-attacks ("white damage" attacks) are made with that weapon. In practice, an ability on the weapon equipped in the main hand can proc more often than its PPM rating, due to the fact that instant attacks (Sinister Strike, Overpower, Whirlwind, etc.) are all assumed to be made with this weapon.
As an example, say a warrior has a Crusader enchant on the weapon in his main hand, and is involved in a long fight where he has essentially unlimited rage and (miraculously) never misses his target.
Weapon 1 has a speed of 2.0 sec. and is enchanted with Crusader which has a rated PPM = 1. Hence, the chance for Crusader to proc on any given hit with this weapon is 1/30.
Weapon 2 has a speed of 3.0 sec. and is also enchanted with Crusader. The chance for Crusader to proc on any given hit with this weapon will be 1/20.
Every minute, the warrior does 10 Bloodthirsts*, 6 Whirlwinds, and 4 Overpowers, for a total of 20 instant attacks. With weapon 1, he will do 30 white hits, for a total of 50 Hits per minute. With weapon 2, he will do 20 white hits, for a total of 40 Hits per minute.
For weapon 1 the chance to proc is 1/30, the warrior does a total of 50 hits per minute which makes the actual PPM 50/30 = 1.67.
For weapon 2 the chance to proc is 1/20, the warrior does a total of 40 hits per minute which makes the actual PPM 40/20 = 2.0.
Therefore, the slower the weapon you wield in the main hand, the more often any PPM-rated ability on it will proc.
All these calculations are made with no flurry included.
Didn't see a mention of SoC specifically. SoC is not a weapon enchant
KTurner wrote:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=02E116744629E22C67716D0051DBD316?topicId=108211984&sid=1
Various posters
Who are always right?
KTurner wrote:
http://wow.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=400315
[quote]PPM Procs like Mongoose have a proc rate, say 1 PPM, which is based on your normal attack for that weapon. The chance per successful attack is based on this so that the PPM will average out as expected.
Change the attack speed OR use the weapon for special attacks and the actual proc rate increases.
OH Weapons do not proc -less- often than this, MH weapons can proc more often because you use it for your special attacks, Mutilate and Shiv apart ofc.
Because Mongoose as a Haste effect it actually causes Mongoose procs to occur more frequently. Obvious this only happens with the other weapon if you have dual Mongoose.
Add BF, SnD, AR and Haste Rating into the mixture and Mongoose procs a lot more often than 1 PPM would suggest, OH Mongoose procs included.
Another reason to get to the Hit Cap, this affects your proc rate too.
but no, nothing offical.
Again enchant proc
Edited, Jul 27th 2007 12:17pm by chood
KTurner wrote:
The procs-per-minute rating of a given weapon ability assumes that only auto-attacks ("white damage" attacks) are made with that weapon.
SoC = yellow damage
WoWwiki:
Seal of Command procs "per minute" (ppm), rather than per hit - it will proc an average of 7 times per minute. So you get the same amount of procs no matter your weapon speed, but a slower, high damage-per-strike weapon will do more Seal of Command damage per hit, on average, than a faster, low damage-per-strike weapon rated at the same DPS. Seal of Command's ppm-rate is the same through rank 1 to 6. The only difference that the ranks make is the damage of the Judgement.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Seal_of_Command
chood wrote:
KTurner wrote:
The procs-per-minute rating of a given weapon ability assumes that only auto-attacks ("white damage" attacks) are made with that weapon.
SoC = yellow damage
WoWwiki:
Seal of Command procs "per minute" (ppm), rather than per hit - it will proc an average of 7 times per minute. So you get the same amount of procs no matter your weapon speed, but a slower, high damage-per-strike weapon will do more Seal of Command damage per hit, on average, than a faster, low damage-per-strike weapon rated at the same DPS. Seal of Command's ppm-rate is the same through rank 1 to 6. The only difference that the ranks make is the damage of the Judgement.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Seal_of_Command
A change in weapon speed is not the same thing as weapon haste.
Your link is saying a 2.0 speed weapon will proc as often as a 3.8 speed weapon. 7 times in a minute. Haste is a different beast entirely.
and fiery = yellow damage. your point?
lol come to think of it, i dont think you understood what you quoted from me at all.
Edited, Jul 27th 2007 9:29am by KTurner
KTurner wrote:
The procs-per-minute rating of a given weapon ability assumes that only auto-attacks ("white damage" attacks) are made with that weapon.
SoC = yellow damage
KTurner wrote:
and fiery = yellow damage. your point?
lol come to think of it, i dont think you understood what you quoted from me at all.
It cleary says "white damage" attacks. SoC is a spell. Just wanted to point that out. Maybe you didn't understand what you read?
No i understood completely.
Let me paraphrase it for you:
PPM rates (ie 7ppm) is based on auto-attacks. If you sit there, auto-attackin away at WHATEVER WEAPON SPEED (the delay on the actual weapon) you will see, on average, 7ppm.
And that is how you get your rate.
throw in hastes, instants, specials and that chance on hit percentage sticks with the attack, thus increasing the effective PPM rate.
Let me paraphrase it for you:
PPM rates (ie 7ppm) is based on auto-attacks. If you sit there, auto-attackin away at WHATEVER WEAPON SPEED (the delay on the actual weapon) you will see, on average, 7ppm.
And that is how you get your rate.
throw in hastes, instants, specials and that chance on hit percentage sticks with the attack, thus increasing the effective PPM rate.
i'd like to add, that its fine that you disagree. I really have no proof. Im more or less just regurgitating things i've read. Oddly enough though, when i googled "haste and PPM" not a single link said what you and gaudion are saying.
Correct, and the way I understood it was that SoC procs are based on base weapon speed. So haste wouldn't affect it right?
You have 3.8s wep with haste 2.8s
You're swinging at 2.5s but SoC is still proccing based on the base 3.8s
You have 3.8s wep with haste 2.8s
You're swinging at 2.5s but SoC is still proccing based on the base 3.8s
oops
Edited, Jul 27th 2007 1:37pm by chood
Edited, Jul 27th 2007 1:37pm by chood
KTurner wrote:
i'd like to add, that its fine that you disagree. I really have no proof. Im more or less just regurgitating things i've read. Oddly enough though, when i googled "haste and PPM" not a single link said what you and gaudion are saying.
Same here. I could be wrong but with my Rightness ppm of 0.1 abd 3.8s weapon speed, it's unlikely jk
I'll try to find where I found this
chood wrote:
Correct, and the way I understood it was that SoC procs are based on base weapon speed. So haste wouldn't affect it right?
You have 3.8s wep with haste 2.8s
You're swinging at 2.5s but SoC is still proccing based on the base 3.8s
You have 3.8s wep with haste 2.8s
You're swinging at 2.5s but SoC is still proccing based on the base 3.8s
Hmm. If im reading this right, yes.
You are swinging at 2.5s with haste, but SoC is still proccing based on the 3.8 original speed, which was 44% chance on hit.
So, transfer that 44% chance on hit or 1 in 2.27 swings to the new 2.5 hasted speed and you get an increase in the true PPM to 60/2.5/2.27 = 10.57 PPM.
Actually I hope that's how it works.
But I think SoC will still behave like the wep is swinging at 3.8 and only proc 7 times.
But I have to admit I can hardly find anyone else who agrees with me.
couple who agree with me
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=9F6D45B8E4A66699F4CE9D07480B3D2C?topicId=93189605&sid=1
This guy reads holy light
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86716116&sid=1
But I think SoC will still behave like the wep is swinging at 3.8 and only proc 7 times.
But I have to admit I can hardly find anyone else who agrees with me.
couple who agree with me
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=9F6D45B8E4A66699F4CE9D07480B3D2C?topicId=93189605&sid=1
This guy reads holy light
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86716116&sid=1
chood wrote:
Actually I hope that's how it works.
But I think SoC will still behave like the wep is swinging at 3.8 and only proc 7 times.
But I have to admit I can hardly find anyone else who agrees with me.
couple who agree with me
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=9F6D45B8E4A66699F4CE9D07480B3D2C?topicId=93189605&sid=1
This guy reads holy light
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86716116&sid=1
But I think SoC will still behave like the wep is swinging at 3.8 and only proc 7 times.
But I have to admit I can hardly find anyone else who agrees with me.
couple who agree with me
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=9F6D45B8E4A66699F4CE9D07480B3D2C?topicId=93189605&sid=1
This guy reads holy light
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86716116&sid=1
Meh, most people in that link agree with me anyway. :P
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