Blessing of Kings is overratedFollow

still, i realize the importance of kings in raiding, but it was written with 5-mans in mind, there are different rules for each type

I think you are missing the point. Yes, The other buffs are better for certain uses. However, "Kings" is one of the better "overall" buffs in the game. You stated that you are talking about five man instances. You also stated that you don't have "Kings" because other pallys in the group may already have it. Correct? Ok, How many prot specced pallys do you expect to find in a single 5 man group? If the other paladin in the group is a healadin that means... You are expecting your healer to invest eleven talent points in prot. (for kings) because you are unwilling to invest one (for kings).

Look, "Kings" is not the end all, be all and I know of no one who is making that claim. However, I don't understand your complete distaste for it. If your prot specced you might as well get it. Why go out of your way to not have it? Unless, You like the attention you get by arguing with people who have the nerve to ask a prot. specced pally for a "Kings" buff. Then you wait for them to ask "Umm, Your prot. and your don't have Kings?" BINGO!!! He took the bait!! Now you can get out your pie charts and talk his ear off and show him the error of his ways. Bringing a complete halt to otherwise successful instance run so you can argue over nothing. While, Your other four teammates whisper each other and say "THIS is why I hate PUGs" or "Maybe I should PVP to get my gear?"

HMMM? There is a thought. Yes sir, That's a sure-fire way to make friends and get regular invites.




Edited, Jul 26th 2007 7:22pm by soulfulstrut

Actually, IIRC, Paladin healing pulls half the threat of regular healing, so more like quarter threat.

It wasn't later justifying it, I said it right off the bat IN MY FIRST PARAGRAPH. This is only for 5-man groups, people looking for BoK advice in a 5-man group please read. People looking for raiding advice, you are not my target audience, I will make a statement right now:

BoK IS GREAT IN RAIDS AND FOR TANKS

to argue back your other points

what huge strength boost for kitties, if a kitty has 800 strength (doubtful) thats only 80 Strength/AP, no where near the 220 from might.

A warrior needs 30 agility per 1% dodge. A well-geared warrior isnt stacking agility to up their dodge, they are putting on +dodge rating which kings does not affect. So they may have 200 agility at most, 20 agility is not even a 1% dodge for them. Druids benefit more by needing 14.7 Agility per 1% dodge. The best argument for using kings on a tank is the +stamina and I already conceded that point in above posts.



I didnt say that I dont have kings because I expect another prot paly to already have it in a 5-man. I said that may be so in a RAID but in a 5-man, I dont think that kings is necessary for most players/specs if they have to choose between all the blessings.

I didnt put kings in my spec because I couldn't find a point for it that I wouldn't be sacrificing something else that I would rather have because more often than not I am the only Paladin in the group, and the other blessings are better than kings for each class.

HOWEVER, after some of the discussions here I will grab it for the few instances where it can be more helpful (Survival hunter, tanks) as I was misinformed about Sanctuary for tanks.

For someone who knows quite a bit, you assume alot. I normally dont post, but I couldn't go by letting this one go. As mentioned by others in this thread, blessings are situational.

Druids
Restoration:
BoW is good. It helps for endurance fights. BoK is good. Increases int and spirit. As most might be aware, spirit is one stat that most healing druids strive for. It also plays another big roll in Tree of Life Form. While in this form you increase healing received by 25% of your total Spirit for all party members within 45 yards.
Feral:
BoM is good. Who doesnt like increased AP. BoK is good. It increases dodge, crit, stamina, armor, str and agi. Tanking druids can use all the extra stamina and armor they can get due to the fact that they have no shield for dmg reduction. On thing also to consider is that if your tanking druid has a problem holding aggro then the problem might lay with the skills of the individual play and not the mechanics.
Balance
I'll be honest, I dont have much experience playing balance. I'm guessing they would like the same as other casters; Salvation, BoW, BoK.
It all depends on circumstances.

Hunters
As mentioned above, BoM is just about the norm of hunters but at the same time you can take specs into consideration and BoK is sometimes a good common ground.

Mages
For the most part, imo, it really depends on the mage's preference. I'm not going to **** off the hand that feeds me (or gives me water, hehe). Most like BoW, some like Salvation others BoK.

Paladin
It is your character, I'll let you debate with yourself with blessing you want to give yourself.

Priest
Depends on spec and situation again. For the most part, BoW>Salv(shadow)>BoK.

Shaman
Restoration
Depends on the different factors; mana pool, current mp5, spec, etc. There is a talent in Shaman healing tree called, Nature's Blessing. It can increases your spell damage and healing by an amount equal to 30% of your Intellect. It just depends on the preference of the player.
Enhancement
Increased crit % is good for Unleashed Rage which helps buff the party. It can causes your critical hits with melee attacks to increase all party members' melee attack power by 10% if within 20 yards of the Shaman. It also depends on the fight. Is it going to be a regular "Spank & Tank"? Will the shaman have to dps/OT a mob; hence they might need more armor, stamina and dps? BoM is good. BoK is good.
Elemental
I feel it is same preference at Balance druids. BoW, Salv, BoK.

Warlocks
Depends on spec and playing style. It is difficult to stop the aggro of a DoT. At the same time, this does not mean that some warlocks dont understand their dmg down to an art and know when they might or should not dps. They dont need BoW b/c Lifetap>BoW. If your warlock doesnt tend to pull aggro, BoK. If so then Salv.

Warrior
DPS
What warrior wouldnt want increased AP. But who wouldnt want extra crit and stam and armor too? I normally would just ask for the preference.
Tanking
BoL is normally the selection of choice for healadins. If you will take some time as to check out some current warriors you think are "leet," see if they put any points in Vitality. If you are unfamiliar with this talent it can increases your total Stamina by 5% and your total Strength by 10%. Keep in mind that strength helps with your shield blocking. Most will have put talents into the talent, if anything all 5/5. Why, one might ask? For the simple stats increase? just 5% stamina and 10% strength? Now ask yourself or a warrior which is easier to coordinate or control, running out of health or not able to hold aggro? Call me crazy but I believe, (if BoL is not needed) BoK > BoM.


All this is mentioned with a 5 man group perpective (regular and heroic). At the same time these arguements that I have presented can hold over into a raiding atmosphere. So problems that can arise in 5 mans but will most likely happen in raids are mulitple classes. What should one do if healing druid and feral druid are in the group? Should a tanking warrior(s) just settle for BoM with the other DPS warrior(s)? I can tell you personally that a feral druids arent too thrilled about getting BoW. And it is really a pain to have to keep up with regular buffs for a particular class w/o greater blessings the entire instance.

#######

If you made this post "Blessing of Kings is overrated" to justify or make yourself feel better for not putting one point in a current tree that you specced 40 points into, I hope you succeeded. (Which also I see you specc Sacred Duty, for the cooldown of your Divine Shield or the reduction of the attack speed penalty? Could it be that you too wanted the stamina increase?)

Everyone plays a different character, spec, and style. To say that your personally have not seen the validity of something does not make it true. I am not saying that I am right on any subject. I just see a different perspective that you did not. I am also not suggesting that BoK are a must for every Paladin. It is situational and depends on multiple variables just like other spells and ablities.

Edited, Jul 27th 2007 1:51pm by RUredD

[quote]If you made this post "Blessing of Kings is overrated" to justify or make yourself feel better for not putting one point in a current tree that you specced 40 points into, I hope you succeeded. (Which also I see you specc Sacred Duty, for the cooldown of your Divine Shield or the reduction of the attack speed penalty? Could it be that you too wanted the stamina increase?) [/qoute]

Well I wrote this mostly in frustration. I tend to push towards total optimization, and throwing out Kings just to appease people is a somewhat hard concept for me to follow.

I got sacred duty mostly for the stamina buff. However I do throw in some arena occasionally and it does help there.

In retrospect, I will probably still grab it, with a minimal amount of arguing from those who want it as their first buff. If it seems like more trouble than it's worth then I'll just give it to them.

I agree the damage mitigation provided by Blessing of Sanctuary isn't much since it is taken off before armor. But you are forgetting the second important part of Sanctuary, the holy damage done for every block done. This can provide a lot of threat generation from each of the opponents hits blocked.

Notice the comparison was between BoM and BoK.

I won't chain-quote everything, but from my point of view 46ish damage won't matter against bosses like Prince with 1M health. =/

Evasion and Stam will serve you better, in my opinion.

maybe not, but if ya have rightous fury up, judged the right things on him, it's all multiplied THREAT. it might JUST be 46 damage, but it's 100+ THREAT/agro, if you are a competant tank.

Thats less chance of him leaving you to go beat on someone else.



it's not ALWAYS about damage/dps, sometime ya just have to REALLY **** EM OFF.

what pisses you off more, you brother punching ya in the arm, once? or your sister poking you for 5 minutes nonstop?

Aye, indeed.

Hardnotes, like I said in my post, I just didn't want to chain-quote the huge block of text again, but my post was a rebuttal to the argument of "more damage done by the tank ends the fight faster".

As for threat generation, I agree, but at some point it becomes inconsequential. If the main tank has a lead of, say, 50k threat, chances are he's a good threat and won't need those few little bits of threat. ;P

Heres why kings is worth it (mostly just for tanks and for that "extra blessing")

Tanks: In a raid should have fort, wild and if you're lucky a blood pact. 10% on top of all of that. That's enough HP to make it worth it for healing em. Personal thought.

Healing classes: Not the first blessing to toss, granted, but if you have more than 1 pally it's a nice topper to add. So MP5 and more mana at once.

DPS: Most DPS spec in 1 stat heavily. Agi/Str being pretty common. Add in the might, and then the kings pushes it, as well as STAM being a melee's prefered choice of secondary. Add the same buffs as the tank and it's a good amount of staying power.

Ranged: Hunters who push far too much AP and not enough sense to control hate (mages/boomkin too) this is the one to give em so they wont complane. See also: placation.

I've never given any lock anything but kings just for the increases. It ends up working really well.

So if you get the options I always give the tank kings, but everyone else gets something else first. It's more a raid blessing, but it's a great add. I never use it on myself, but I've had it since 20 and I wont give it up and I'm a healadin.

However if you have a group that works better, then go with it. It's just my 2 cents.