Well there comes a time when every hunter needs a respec. My time is now. Im so damn confused too. I came up with two and would like your advice. I have both the same on the MM side it is the SV i have a question with since i have never put points into SV except for 1st tier.
Build one: took the 5 points out of survivalist and put into clever traps, wing clip, deterence, and 1 pt left over for surefooted.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VZEV0oEzhcstchhGzd
Build two: only two points into wing clip and the rest sunk into survivalist for the 10% health bonus (i am thinking as a hunter I should need the HP bonus due to with a good tank i shoudln't get hit) but lately in raids im taking aggro like crazy from spamming auto shot and SS.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VZEV0oEzhcstchhbxb
any suggestions on which one looks the most ben. i wanted to get rid of imp concussion but i cant if i want to do my build this way.
thanks in advance
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PVP / Raid specFollow
What do you want to do with your hunter?
if you want to raid, check the link in my sig (also has pointers, stats to aim for and cookie cutter raid builds)
If you want to PvP, i'm not the one who can help you as i suck at it ;)
if you want to raid, check the link in my sig (also has pointers, stats to aim for and cookie cutter raid builds)
If you want to PvP, i'm not the one who can help you as i suck at it ;)
I do both. I have looked at your list in the past and to be honest don't see the point in your MM spec. Hunters mark in my opinion is worthless espically in raid because I should never have to melee. Rapid killing I see as a wasted talent as well just do to it proc's and we are getting mana, etc... the 5% damage from ranged spec I don't use either because it is what 20extra damage? I would put those into combat exp since it is an 100% active trait, but that is just me. So what I do with my hunter now is.
I PVP, I farm, I raid.
with the two builds I have created what do you think would be the best. I don't want to take anything out of MM since it is a DPS boost (I do the improved barrage) because I take adds in BM and i Use volley on the welps with snake trap.
I PVP, I farm, I raid.
with the two builds I have created what do you think would be the best. I don't want to take anything out of MM since it is a DPS boost (I do the improved barrage) because I take adds in BM and i Use volley on the welps with snake trap.
First off you can NOT be specced for raiding and PvP, it simply isnt possible.
You can raid with a PvP spec but your performance wil be sub par.
You can PvP (thinking of Arena here) with a raid spec but your survivability will be lacking.
Raiding as well as PvP require total dedication of your spec, gear and playstyle and they hardly have anything more in common then shooting.
MM is my least favourite spec because its outdamaged by BM and equaled by SV, while SV has more utility and way more mana effeciency.
However, the build in that list is a very solid build for raiding with MM.
1: you dont melee, but the tanks and melee dps (and pets) do.
Try to think of more then yourself alone, raiding is a group effort.
2: Rapid killing is NOT for the weak buff after killing something, its for the 2 minutes shorter cooldown on rapid fire.
Because an extra Rapid Fire in a bossfight does make a difference. (average bossfight in Kara is probably 4-5 minutes)
3: 5% damage on ~500-600 damage per second is A LOT (you are shooting once every 1.2-1.4 seconds assuming steady/auto rotation)
combat experience, even with great stats, gives very little in return.
I'll do the math if you want but I know its fairly worthless.
edit: Black Morass is NOT raiding, it isnt even close.
in BM you can **** up bad and survive it, raiding if you **** up you die (first mobs in Kara hit for ~3-4k every 1-1.5 sec on 4.5k armor and they crit for over 10k)
Edited, Jul 17th 2007 9:18am by Aethien
You can raid with a PvP spec but your performance wil be sub par.
You can PvP (thinking of Arena here) with a raid spec but your survivability will be lacking.
Raiding as well as PvP require total dedication of your spec, gear and playstyle and they hardly have anything more in common then shooting.
ammerman wrote:
I have looked at your list in the past and to be honest don't see the point in your MM spec.
However, the build in that list is a very solid build for raiding with MM.
Quote:
Hunters mark in my opinion is worthless espically in raid because I should never have to melee. Rapid killing I see as a wasted talent as well just do to it proc's and we are getting mana, etc... the 5% damage from ranged spec I don't use either because it is what 20 extra damage?
1: you dont melee, but the tanks and melee dps (and pets) do.
Try to think of more then yourself alone, raiding is a group effort.
2: Rapid killing is NOT for the weak buff after killing something, its for the 2 minutes shorter cooldown on rapid fire.
Because an extra Rapid Fire in a bossfight does make a difference. (average bossfight in Kara is probably 4-5 minutes)
3: 5% damage on ~500-600 damage per second is A LOT (you are shooting once every 1.2-1.4 seconds assuming steady/auto rotation)
Quote:
I would put those into combat exp since it is an 100% active trait, but that is just me.
combat experience, even with great stats, gives very little in return.
I'll do the math if you want but I know its fairly worthless.
edit: Black Morass is NOT raiding, it isnt even close.
in BM you can **** up bad and survive it, raiding if you **** up you die (first mobs in Kara hit for ~3-4k every 1-1.5 sec on 4.5k armor and they crit for over 10k)
Edited, Jul 17th 2007 9:18am by Aethien
Anything lower than Karazhan is not raiding.
Some would say that even Karazhan is not real raiding anymore since it only involves 10 players and it is not that hard anymore with many guilds on every server clearing it (and even many which do not go there anymore).
If you want to raid, you'll have to change some talents to maximize your DPS. I have checked your gear and talents on the armory (Maeglin this is you, isn't it?) and you need quite some gear upgrades to really hurt in raid instances.
From my experience a MM specced hunter should have ~2k RAP; 20% crit; when starting with Karazhan.
Your talents are not quite optimal for doing raids.
Improved concussive is worthless there (and I also do not like it very much for PvP, much to unreliable for 5 talent points).
Improved stings is really worthless. Sting will drain your mana, do not much damage and the only really important sting, scorpid sting, is not buffed by this talent. So basically a waste of 5 talent points.
Ranged weapon spec is a must have talent. And of course one hunter in your raid should have improved hunters mark.
Rapid killing is a nice talent, but I do not consider it as must have. Although is also a nice one for PvP, gives a good portion of burst damage every 3min instead of 5.
Some would say that even Karazhan is not real raiding anymore since it only involves 10 players and it is not that hard anymore with many guilds on every server clearing it (and even many which do not go there anymore).
If you want to raid, you'll have to change some talents to maximize your DPS. I have checked your gear and talents on the armory (Maeglin this is you, isn't it?) and you need quite some gear upgrades to really hurt in raid instances.
From my experience a MM specced hunter should have ~2k RAP; 20% crit; when starting with Karazhan.
Your talents are not quite optimal for doing raids.
Improved concussive is worthless there (and I also do not like it very much for PvP, much to unreliable for 5 talent points).
Improved stings is really worthless. Sting will drain your mana, do not much damage and the only really important sting, scorpid sting, is not buffed by this talent. So basically a waste of 5 talent points.
Ranged weapon spec is a must have talent. And of course one hunter in your raid should have improved hunters mark.
Rapid killing is a nice talent, but I do not consider it as must have. Although is also a nice one for PvP, gives a good portion of burst damage every 3min instead of 5.
these are the types of responses I like to see, I will take all into consideration. We haven't started Kara yet but are working our way up to it. Appreciate the insite and if you guys have any sample builds out there let me know (i know the ones you have in your cookie cutter) but if there is a more specific one. See I am farming rep so I PVP alot @ Honor Hold and the Towers (granted not a **** load of PVP but enough to want to have some specs for it)
Instance runs are the way to farm rep.
also because you need revered with every faction and after that a lot of badges from heroics.
And ofcourse the gear from instances.
also because you need revered with every faction and after that a lot of badges from heroics.
And ofcourse the gear from instances.
I have been trying to increase my RAP but cant get over the 1800 mark, any suggestions on enchants or gear to farm... I have felstalker set which isnt the best but it has been working till that damn chest piece in BM drops. my agi is 512 I think should I swing more towards INT for the +RAP (but doing that I lose crit and im almost 20% at the moment)
Besides gear upgrades (look at Aethiens pre raid gear list, this covers basically every slot) you should reconsider some of your enchants.
- AP/HR enchant on your head (Cenarion Expedition)
- AP enchant on your shoulders (Aldor)
- 12 agi on cloak, armor is useless
- on your legs I'd suggest the cobrahide armor patch (40AP, 10crit rating)
On your head slot I'd go for Stalker's Helmet of Second Sight. With three AP gems in it, this thing gives insane attack power.
Your gems and your enchants are a bit to focused on stamina. For PvP you want HP, for raids and instances you have too much. 7k unbuffed would be enough.
You have +35agi on your sonic spear. This is a good enchant, however +70AP (savagery) would have been better for your spec.
And for instances I hope you have some crit/AP trinkets.
- AP/HR enchant on your head (Cenarion Expedition)
- AP enchant on your shoulders (Aldor)
- 12 agi on cloak, armor is useless
- on your legs I'd suggest the cobrahide armor patch (40AP, 10crit rating)
On your head slot I'd go for Stalker's Helmet of Second Sight. With three AP gems in it, this thing gives insane attack power.
Your gems and your enchants are a bit to focused on stamina. For PvP you want HP, for raids and instances you have too much. 7k unbuffed would be enough.
You have +35agi on your sonic spear. This is a good enchant, however +70AP (savagery) would have been better for your spec.
And for instances I hope you have some crit/AP trinkets.
also see my gearlist for enchants for every other slot, as well as some advise for Gems and specs.
I might change more about the list, adding a more extensive guide of what you should know pre-raids.
Guess i'll start on that soon...
I might change more about the list, adding a more extensive guide of what you should know pre-raids.
Guess i'll start on that soon...
Hey thanks. I was big on playing per-BC and took awhile off and just trying to get back into the swing of things.
one last question: for Aethien
On your MM spec you have, do you think taking the points from the BM side and putting them into the SV side would help for CC. Like putting the points into clever traps and entrapment instead of imp aspect and focused fire
On your MM spec you have, do you think taking the points from the BM side and putting them into the SV side would help for CC. Like putting the points into clever traps and entrapment instead of imp aspect and focused fire
entrapment is a generally worthless talent, 85% of the trap you use are freezing traps and i wouldnt spend 3 talent points for a very small buff to the other traps.
but yes, extra points in SV will help your CC.
Since CC is not really needed in raids i didnt include them in the build.
Before raiding if you really want to be MM specced i would go for this still solid damage but with a bit more CC.
If you really really want to shine in 5 mans you should try out the 5-man hero build
does require you to have ~550 agility before speccing like that and good hp but it will make you king of the 5-mans if you know how to CC.
but yes, extra points in SV will help your CC.
Since CC is not really needed in raids i didnt include them in the build.
Before raiding if you really want to be MM specced i would go for this still solid damage but with a bit more CC.
If you really really want to shine in 5 mans you should try out the 5-man hero build
does require you to have ~550 agility before speccing like that and good hp but it will make you king of the 5-mans if you know how to CC.
I think those suit more a bit more since we won't be doing Kara for awhile. Just moving into guild BM's and Herorics
then if you have the agi, you should try out the 5-man hero build.
I played with it and its so sweet for 5 mans, you wont out dps true dps classes but you will be able to CC anything and save lives.
I played with it and its so sweet for 5 mans, you wont out dps true dps classes but you will be able to CC anything and save lives.
Im not up to the 550agi yet, but will def. give it a shot when I get there. need like 40more points or so.
once again, my gearlist has a lot of pieces with agi, you'll have to compare them yourself though...
i might add BM, MM and SV tags behind the best items for those specs when i feel like it, but right now i cant be bothered =P
i might add BM, MM and SV tags behind the best items for those specs when i feel like it, but right now i cant be bothered =P
Yeah your guild been helping me out getting gear. Thanks by the way that must have taken a long *** time
I made a modification of the Five man raiding spec, I took out survivalist, savage strikes, and imp arcane shot.
Instead I put the points from those into Imp Wing Clip (To get away or aid a squishy), Resourcefulness (maxed out), Wyrven Sting (CC and squishy aid), and rapid killing (add a lil extra damage).
Original spec http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VZVVroVzZIu0MpfMhihh
Modified spec http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VZVVbRVzZIh0GzfMhAuh
Again I lack experience in high end 5-mans so please feel free to put this into perspective of what often happens in a heroic.
Instead I put the points from those into Imp Wing Clip (To get away or aid a squishy), Resourcefulness (maxed out), Wyrven Sting (CC and squishy aid), and rapid killing (add a lil extra damage).
Original spec http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VZVVroVzZIu0MpfMhihh
Modified spec http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VZVVbRVzZIh0GzfMhAuh
Again I lack experience in high end 5-mans so please feel free to put this into perspective of what often happens in a heroic.
Darigraz wrote:
I made a modification of the Five man raiding spec, I took out survivalist, savage strikes, and imp arcane shot.
Instead I put the points from those into Imp Wing Clip (To get away or aid a squishy), Resourcefulness (maxed out), Wyrven Sting (CC and squishy aid), and rapid killing (add a lil extra damage).
Instead I put the points from those into Imp Wing Clip (To get away or aid a squishy), Resourcefulness (maxed out), Wyrven Sting (CC and squishy aid), and rapid killing (add a lil extra damage).
Plus, i dont use wing clip all that much, same goes for Wyvern sting it can be my playstyle but i found it rather useless in instances because generally all mobs are CC'd or are being killed.
Recoursefullness maxed out is overkill and 2/2 trap mastery is too (1/2 should be enough to trap, as there is always a tiny chance for resists and mobs dont have a 10% chance to resist to begin with)
Rapid killing is NOT for the tiny bit of extra damage when you kill something.
Its purely for the shorter cooldown on rapid fire.
Why you want to shorten that cooldown: to use it more often in a bossfight.
In 5 mans, you wont use it more then once in bossfights because bosses die withing 3 minutes.
You can still take it but for pure 5 mans i prefer a slightly shorter cooldown on arcane for the occasional kite.
the single point in savage strikes is because its more useful then a single point in imp. wing clip ;)
(when kiting or in general whenever a mob closes in you should raptor+wing clip it)
Giving up survivalist is senseless because extra HP means you can survive more.
Mobs hit (not crit) for 6-7k in heroics, its nice if you can actually survive that.
As well as the many AoE effects and adds flying around, you are likely to get hit.
Basically, the build is like this with spending your last point in Wyvern sting, Resourcefullness or survivalist, whatever you prefer.
Your right, I new there was something that you combined with resourcefulness to make it so that right when a freeze trap runs out you are ready to place a new one but I forgot what it was.
Now I know that no party is perfect, but a hunter shouldn't take damage except in boss fights where theres AoE or random charges so your gear should be able to give you enough health.
I would rather max out endurance training than survivalist, I know that this does not fit into the survival oriented scheme, but I would think boosting your pets health and your health (Albeit at a lesser degree) would be more useful.
Do people seriously not use Wyvren Sting, it seems so useful as a cc (Though doesnt last as long as freez trap), drop a misdirection on the tank, distracting shot arcane shot then wyvren sting the mob thats goen after a squishy, that seems like the perfect way to pull aggro off a mage thats become popular with an angry mob.
Now I know that no party is perfect, but a hunter shouldn't take damage except in boss fights where theres AoE or random charges so your gear should be able to give you enough health.
I would rather max out endurance training than survivalist, I know that this does not fit into the survival oriented scheme, but I would think boosting your pets health and your health (Albeit at a lesser degree) would be more useful.
Do people seriously not use Wyvren Sting, it seems so useful as a cc (Though doesnt last as long as freez trap), drop a misdirection on the tank, distracting shot arcane shot then wyvren sting the mob thats goen after a squishy, that seems like the perfect way to pull aggro off a mage thats become popular with an angry mob.
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