[Quick Guide] How to win the damage meterFollow

I thought It would be nice to share this thread from wow.eu->hunter forum with you guys.

Original post by Isilwen from The Bear Team



This post has aroused lots of feelings, mostly praise from respecced people and also lots of hatred from die-hard MM fans. I havent tested it by my self, so I don't have an opnion on this matter. Althought, it seems to be very good.. I'd put points from effiency to imp. hunters mark to get the 8dps, but I'd probably run out of mana..

EDIT: Since Blizzard has nerfed growl in 2.1 to be calculated by pet's AP and BM builds lack of TSA, MM builds have some advantage. Blizz won't probably even "fix" growl since the nerf goes down to nerfing botters, against who Blizz has been somewhat weaponless. Personally, I havent been playing after 2.1 so I don't know how much growl has been nerfed. However, hearing all the whine, it seems to be pain on the buttocks to play hunter after 2.1.

Edited, Jun 11th 2007 3:47pm by proparsley

Edited, Jun 11th 2007 3:49pm by proparsley

IMO it's not about topping the DM, but about getting your group's total DPS and/or survivability up higher. For example, while expose weakness may not help you top the DM against the rogues and the warriors (they get the same benefit you do), it will increase the overall DPS of your group.

If the game was only about topping the damage meters, then paladins would only be able to cast blessings on themself, shaman totems would only affect shamans, druids LotP and moonkin would be a 5% crit bonus for them, not for the group, warrior shouts would only buff themself, etc. The point I'm making is that topping the DM should not be your primary goal - helping your group get more damage output (possibly just your contribution to DPS, maybe not buffs) is.

Also, it depends on what DM you're talking about. Some include pets, others do not. A SV or marks hunter will out-DPS a BM hunter if pets are counted seperately.

Now, I'm not saying DM's are bad. I'm just saying a lot of people misuse them. Yes, it may be fun to try to top them every once in a while. But in general the purpose is to see who's lagging behind in DPS, and help them get back up.

That and if you have an aggressive paladin tank, you won't top the meters. Last run I did on my 40-ish hunter, the paladin tank topped the charts simply b/c of all the reflective damage. I was second ;).

Actually, I like to do both.
If I can help my team out while topping the Damage Meters, I can say I have done my job. As a Beastmaster, it doesn't really matter what mob my pet is hitting, the damage output is still there. So my group gets a nice offtank that helps the group immensely, while I do DPS on the tank-mob, and keep a third mob trapped.

Misdirection goes a long way in helping out as well, and no one can whine about me caring about the Damage Meters if the threat goes to the tank. Granted, it is only three (two with the bug) shots, but still.

I usually top any Damage Meter. The trick lies in damn good Pet control, and using the appropriate traps while never letting an autoshot be delayed. It takes some good keybinding, and good overview of the fight, but it is easily done. All the while, I dish out some damn good damage while keeping my group alive and well.

I am MM spec, and whenever I go to attack something, I NEVER spend 2-3 seconds sending my pet to attack next target! If it takes that long then your doing something wrong. All it takes is ctrl+1 which, after you have gained your target, takes maybe .5 seconds to do. My pet is always attacking my target (unless I am setting it up for a trap).

And I do see were your point is, however, I like to do both as well. I Chain Trap consistently, my pet has saved the squishey's in my groups numerous times.

I have Threat Meter, and Damage Meter, and Threat Meter is not accurate! Anybody who thinks it is god is stupid. I tested a theory out on several runs. Yes, everybody in my guilds "core group" has threat meter.

We have a pally healer who likes to yell at us "Stop pulling aggro", when we havnt actually pulled aggro, why, because he was looking at his Threat Meter. Several times I noticed I would be at the top of the meter, and I would not have aggro because the mob was still on the Tank. Threat Meter, and the way it reads threat, is flawed. Notice the numbers?? They go up my how much DAMAGE you are doing point for point, and the Tanks abilities are assigned certain points as well, the amount of points that are assigned/miscalculated is flawed.

Basically, I dont give a **** about the Threat Meter, it gives yet another tool for somebody to yell at us. If your a good hunter, you know were the limit to how much damage you can do before you draw hate. Bosses? I MD use Aimed Shot, Multi-Shot, and Arcane one right after the other, steady shot twice, and then I FD because the way MD directs aggro is not 100% of damage caused (4 shots after MD and I pull aggro is not right, AImed Shot- ~4k, Multi Shot ~2k, Arcane ~1.5k, followed by 2 ~700 Autoshots and ~800 Steady Shots and Ive got aggro? Yeah Blizz needs to fix that).

./offrant

It's true that Threat Meters are not perfect, just as Damage Meters are not perfect. But if a person could only run one of them, I'd recommend the Threat Meter every time.

The DM is primarily a tool for stroking egos. Yes, it can be used for good, but the vast majority of players only use it as an e-peen enlarger. Threat Meter, on the other hand, is a grouping tool. It isn't completely accurate, and I don't believe it understands how range effects threat. So a Hunter outside of the dead zone needs to rank +30% Threat over the Tank before pulling aggro. If your Paladin isn't adept at calculating this on the fly (and I'm not suggesting he/she should be, just pointing out the difficulty) that's why he/she is yelling at you even if no one is actually pulling aggro.

I see it as not completely important if I top DPS charts. I keep one up for just myself to see how I do. It doesn't keep track of the other players. But It helps me figure out if I am not doing as much as normal or how much I lack in damage while I am waiting for Mana to come up. As long as I keep the Healer alive. Via Traps pet or what ever else I can. then thats what counts. Though I prefer tincan healers to the squishie ones.

Yeah I have to admit that the DM is a tool I can live without most times. About the only time I pull it up is when I get some DPS player a level or two lower then me going "Man I'm keeping DPS with the hunter by". Then I point out their DM isn't including my pet, and watch them cry after they ask "How much pet do?"

What I miss (and I have NO clue where it went about a month ago ; ;) was a small "DPS" tracker that tracked my DPS dealt, and Taken over a sliding 30 seconds. I liked that because I could glance up as I was DPSing to see if I was toping a personal best once in a while.

Totals don't impress me. What impresses me is when a group can pull of handling 4 Elite mobs, and then the 2 other mobs in that Patrol that just Agroed the Squishies.

I'll agree with Wowish on that last point.

But I will also add; DM = ego boost, not a great tool, it has its uses, but when it comes to raids/ instances or anything else you need a team effort on, getting through it alive, efficiently and without making anyone mad for being an idiot for trying to top the DM is FAR more important than doing the most possible damage you can.

Damage is great and all for killing the mobs faster, but doing so at the expense of performing your "group" role is a slap in the face to everyone picking up your slack, which means that they are probably lowering the DPS they can do to keep whatever chaos you might be causing from getting out of control (hunters trapping, mages sheeping, rogues gouging/ kidney shot rather than DPSing). Doing this lowers the groups DPS and therefore efficiency.

Basically, DM are a horrible waste of time and measure of how well you are doing your job, because, no one, not one single class in WoW is solely dedicated to dealing damage, although some classes have that aspect more pronounced in their class description than others.

Just quick clarification for Damage Meter's uses.

Don't keep it up during the run. If you have Titan Bars, the Damage Meter can be hidden but still catch the damage. Somewhat inaccurately, true, but it works as it would while showing. When I am running an instance/raid I never keep it up. All I have up is the Threat Meter for a threat indication. For one, it shows me whether or not Feign Death resisted, because I sometimes miss the "resisted" message in a hectic fight.

After the instance/raid is done, however, you can check the Damage Meters. That is when it becomes a good tool. You can analyze your own damage, see if you have too little damage and possibly see where it is lacking. As a DPS class, I really like to see how my current tactics are working, and to see if the latest build I have tried is useful at all.

This is how I use it anyway...

To Clarify

I do not tell people how to play their toons. I say "Hey, you could try doing this to boost this"

I have had GM's tell me that You NEED to do this, or you NEED to spec this way, or you NEED to get this, then I tell them what I think of them

It's funny how much this thread differens the original one.

I agree that DMs can realy realease egos. But I like DM's, I use it as a tool, if I'm topping the chart I can tell that my group isn't the best if I'm at the bottom (above tank and healer) I know that this will be an enjoyable run and I can loosen my intensity on the run.

Also I enjoy the DM when it's the last boss of the instance and I'm slightly behind a "dps" class and watching my DM rise as I go into burn mode (use all cd's and use everything I got, don't worry i throw in fd and watch the squishys in case I need to intervene), I dunno why but it just feels good when I push the DM.

But always a hunters priorities should be
1. THINK (Am I laying my trap in a place that the tanks mob wont run through or get aoe'd? Am I targeting the right mob before I send my pet in (We've all done it. Send the pet into the next room instead of the mob in front of it.)? Am I in a position that I can get quickly to a squishy? How is my threat level? Do I have enough mana for this pull? How is my pets health?etc etc)
2. Watch and be ready to come to the aid of squishys or nail a runaway mob.
3. Getting my pet on the right target.
4. DPS
Yes, I put my pet above myself, as a BM hunter this is an absolute, the party will gain more from your pets buff + it's dps than your own dps (I don't mean pet dps is > than our dps but the pets buff and it's dps combined is more beneficial than your own dps.)

As for TM my theory is that tps (Threat per second) also ties in to who a mob will atack, a tank can hold aggro over say a hunter doing an aimed shot because the warrior will be generating tps while the hunter is casting at 0tps, so now aimed shot goes off, the hunter has more tps than the warrior but that tps is in a spike (0tps to 1000tps to 500tps, while the tank is at XXXtps across the board) and drops by at least half tps while the tank has had consistent tps going the whole time, now over time the hunter will draw aggro because it's tps becomes consistent and most likley has more tps than the tank.
So in a nutshell tps + consistency = how a TM can show you having more aggro than the tank but the mob still being on the tank.
Does this make sense?

Sorry bout such a long post.