Since we're the only class without a FAQ Sticky, I thought it would be high time to make one.
Disclaimer: This FAQ is a work in progress. I do not claim to know everything, and comments, suggestions, questions, corrections, are more than welcome. I have propbably overlooked some stuff, and forgot some other, so anything useful you can add, will be added to the FAQ.
Credential: I have played a Shadow Priest in a top raiding guild on Lightining's Blade (EU) for the last year and a half. I have been to BWL/AQ/NAxx as a Shadow Priest.
Holy/Disc: Because of this, I am not very knowledgable when it comes to Holy/Disc priests. I will therefore let someone else do a Holy/Disc FAQ.
Questions:
1) Which race should I choose?
2) What new things have Shadow Priests got in TBC?
3) What is the best Shadow Priest spec?
4) What stats should I look for?
5) What gear I should be trying to obtain with my Shadow Priest?
6) Can I heal as a SP in instances?
7) Is a SP a viable addition to a raid?
8) Will Shadow Priests become obsolete once better gear comes around?
9) I get owned by locks, what should I do??
10) Should I stack up on +Crit gear?
11) How much +dmg should a SP have at 70?
12) Can you please break down all the talents in th shadowtree and rate them?
1) Which race should I choose?
I will talk about both racials and Priest racials as though they were the same.
Shadow Priest racial abilities are not as important as for Holy/Disc ones, simply because we usually don't have to worry about Fear Ward.
Regarding the Horde, the Undead's Will of The Forsaken is extremely useful, and Devouring Plague is a decent extra DOT, albeit a mana-expensive one.
Trolls get Hex of Weakness, Berserker, Regeneration and Shadowguard. Shadowguard can be useful, since it procs Blackout and Shadow Weaving, as well as doing some decent damage.
Blood Elves get Mana Tap, which allows you to tap mana and regenrate it for yourself, and Consume Magic which allows you to regain mana by consuming one of your buffs.
Undead seems the better choice PvP-wise, while Blood Elves might have a slight advantage in PvE.
For the Alliance, Dwarves get Desperate Prayer (instant self-heal), Fear Ward and Stoneform, all of which can be useful in certain situation. You can't really go wrong rolling a Drward priest, save for the look of the female specie.
Humans get Diplomacy, always useful especially in TBC, Desperate Prayer (same as Dwarf), Human Spirit (+5%spi), Feedback (Any successful spell cast against the priest will burn x of the attacker's Mana and y Shadow damage for each point of Mana burned for 15 secs), and Perception, which can be useful against rogues in PvP.
Night Elves have one decent talent, Shadowmeld, and many useless ones, including Elune's Grace (useless), Starshards (useless in 99% of situations) and Imporved death aka Wisp form. You roll an NE for the look, not for the racials.
Dranei also get Fear Ward, Gift of Naaru (a Heal over Time), the Presence buffs (+1% to hit for party), Symbol of Hope (regens X amount of many every 5 sec, for 15 secs), and some shadow resistance.
For the Alliance, all have their advatanges, save maybe for the Night Elves.
2) What new things have Shadow Priests got in TBC?
- Vampiric Touch:
The 41-point talent of the shadow tree. This is a God-send for us. Not only does it give us another DOT that scales quite well andhas a short cast time, it makes us loved in 5-man, and even gives raid leaders a good reason to take us. 5% of our shadow damage is given back to the party in mana. I can�t begin to tell you how useful this is in raids. Paladins will absolutely adore you, since they have a talent to transform the heals they receive into mana. Basically meaning, they get almost infinite mana from your VT.
- Misery:
This talent is not that incredible for soloing, but it�s very nice for raids. It gives 5% spell damage to the whole raid. This and Shadow Weaving means that Shadow Priests increase considerably the caster�s damage in any given raid/party.
- Higher Crit:
Not incredibly useful in raids, mostly because of the aggro issue,, but very nice for PvP and soloing. There is also quite a lot of +crit gear out there, and I find myself criting with these spells very often.
- Shadowfiend:
Our "Evocation". This spell is not perfect: The little guy dies easily, sometimes breaks CC targets, and doesn't last very long. He scales with +dmg gear, however, and seems to be affected by SW. Not only that, but his dmg is "shadow melee". Meaning that armor does not make a difference as to how hard he hits, but shadow resist does. This is great news, since he will hit almost as hard on a boss than on a random mob. If someone knows whether CoS affects it, it would be great. Better hope the boss does not have an AOE tho.
3) What is the best Shadow Priest spec?
It depends on your gear, on what you spend most of your time doing, and on your playstyle.
But here are few ideas:
- :Raiding:
Most of these talents are self-explanatory. I chose Mediatation since lots of +dmg items now have spirit on them, and since mana regen has often been a problem for us in raids. I really think that with VT, Shadowfiend, and Meditation, mana regen should be a breeze now. I didn't take PWF since there will be a Holy/Disc Priest in your raid that will have this talent. Shield is quite useless too to waste talents points there.
Since the change in Silent Resolve, this talent is now useless for Shadow Priests. Take 2/2 Imp. PWF instead, and 3 talent points elsewhere. Thanks to Khalane.
- PvP:
I Pvp a lot less than I PvE, so if you have a more effective spec, please post it and explain why. I will be more than happy to replace this one, if you think it sucks.
- Soloing:
This is a good progression (thanks to MookusOU).
5/5 Spirit tap
2/2 Improved Shadow Word Pain
3/5 Shadow Focus
1/1 Mind Flay
5/5 Improved Mind Blast
2/2 Shadow Reach
2/5 Shadow Weaving
1/1 Vampiric Embrace
2/2 Improved Vampiric Embrace
5/5 Shadow Weaving
3/3 Focused Mind
1/5 Darkness
1/1 Shadowform
Once you get to 40 you should have a relatively good feel for how to spend the remainder of your talent points. I suggest maxing out Darkness and Shadow Power followed by Vampiric Touch. At that point you are 50 and can either continue maxing the Shadow Tree or move over into a bit of Discipline. Personally I wouldn't go shadow-sub holy (except for Healing Focus) since Discipline compliments your shadow talents much better.
- Off-spec for levelling/instances:
This is the spec I used from 60-70. The shadow tree is great for levelling, soloing and PvPing, while the points in Holy are a great help in instances when one has to heal. 2.5sec GHeal is a life saver.
4) What stats should I look for?
- +Dmg:
This is the bread and butter of a SP�s stats. The more dmg you do, the more VE will heal, and the more mana VT will give back. If you can get your hands on +Shadow dmg, even better since all of the offensive spells for SPs are shadow, and since +shadow dmg is cheaper than +dmg.
- Mana/sec:
Very important too. One of the SPs biggest problem tends to be that they run out of mana pretty quick. Make sure you can stack up on those, especially for those long boss fights.
- Int:
Useful, but not as much as the other two. More int is better than no int, but it�s still inferior to mana/sec.
- Spirit:
It seems that Blizzard has decided to put some spirit on SP items. If you have a build that includes Meditation, then it can be useful. Otherwise, not really.
5) What gear I should be trying to obtain with my Shadow Priest?
While levelling, I think it is imperative to have both a healing set and a dmg set. I use Outfitter to switch from one to the other with one click of a button. Pre-70, you will most likely take Mage/Lock gear. Once you get to 70, the very best items available at the moment are the crafted ones. So, if you are wondering what profession to pick, Tailoring is imba. Failing that, pray one of your friends is a tailor.
A few exemples:
Spellstrike Hood
Spellstrike Pants
Shadoweave Tunic
Shadoweave Boots
Shadoweave shoulders
Cloak of the Black Void
If you are not a tailor, then I would suggest going for the lock/mage set, or even better, the Shadow Priest set:
Mana-Etched set exemple.
And a good link, courtesy of zomvito:
http://www.theorycrafter.com/world-of-warcraft/class-loot-lists/priest-loot/
And another good link, thanks to Khalane:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.h...m=19;page=1
6) Can I heal as a SP in instances?
Pre-70, you should have no problem if your healing gear is good.
For the level 70 instances, it�s much harder to be the only healer. Not impossible, but you will need a very good and organised group. You will run out of mana fast, and won�t have an �Oh sh*t� button you can press.
It�s not impossible, but level 70 instances require each player to be awake and aware of his role. You�ll shine as a dps-er, but will struggle as a lone healer.
7) Is a SP a viable addition to a raid?
Yes. Today, there is no doubt about it.
Our dps has been greatly increased. Check out Nihilum�s website, their shadow priest was top of their damage-metres. Not only that, but the Mana regained through VT, Misery, and Shadow Weaving are all great support. We can even schakle and dispel in Shadowform.
With good gear, you will rival Hunters and Rogues. You will increase Mages and Lock's dps, and you will enable the healers to heal a lot more.
VT, Shadowfiend, and some good talents should enable you to not run out of mana. Add some Mana pots to that, and you'll be cruising.
The change to Silent Resolve in the latest patch makes aggro more of an issue. It is still viable, but you have to watch KTM very carefully in raids. Remember that healing-effective VE adds a lot of threat, so don't add it unnecessarily.
8) Will Shadow Priests become obsolete once better gear comes around?
It�s too early to tell yet, but possibly
Mind Flay still scales badly (57%), so that will be a problem.
On the other hand, our DOT scale very well, and the mana regen will still be very useful.
I�ll try to keep you updated.
9) I get owned by locks, what should I do??
Silence, fear and runaway.
If we are paper, the locks are shredders.
10) Should I stack up on +Crit gear?
+Crit has gone from completely useless, to slightly useful. It's not the primary stat you should look for, but it is moderately useful. MB and SWD both benefit from it, and with the talents in Shadow Power you can easily get around 25% crit for these two spells.
I personally wouldnt take it over +dmg, since SWP, VT and MF are still our primary damage spells, especillay in raids/instances since both MB and SWD cause a lot of threat.
11) How much +dmg should a SP have at 70?
Without Tailoring and pre-raid, anything over 600 is decent.
With Tailoring and a little effort, it's not too hard to reach 700-800. And 100 without any raid gear is doable, with Tailoring.
12) Can you please break down all the talents in th shadowtree and rate them?
Spirit Tap:
Provides a spirit bonus and allows mana regeneration while casting if the priest lands the killing blow on a mob that grants experience. Key words: Killing blow.
An absolute must have for any priest who is leveling up.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: D
Raid Grade: C
Blackout:
Grants a chance that any damage dealing shadow spell will cause the target to be stunned for 3 seconds. The stun is not interrupted by damage.
Pre-Burning Crusade, Blackout was almost a given in shadow builds for both PvP and PvE. However, with the introduction of new damage boosting talents, Blackout has dropped in popularity. Most leveling builds now exclude Blackout. It is still considered a useful spell in PvP.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: C
Improved Shadow Word Pain:
Shadow Word Pain is among the best DoTs in the game and this talent only serves to make it even more potent. Almost all shadow builds incorporate Improved SWP.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: A
Shadow Affinity:
Reduces the amount of threat generated by shadow spells and thus lessens the chance a mob will attack the priest.
I have no personal experience with this talent so the grades are based on theory. However, most builds opt to bypass this talent. It is utterly useless when soloing or PvPing. It becomes effective when the shadow priest is staying in shadowform during an instance. The reality is that in most instances priests are not in shadowform and are healing.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: F
Raid Grade: A
Shadow Focus:
Decreases the target’s ability to resist shadow spells cast by the priest.
As a “filler†talent in order to get to Mind Flay almost all priests have at least 3/5 Shadow Focus. PvP priests tend to leave Shadow Focus at 3/5 while PvE priests tend to put 4 or 5 points here.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: C
Raid Grade: A
Mind Flay:
A damage spell that is spread over a 3 second “beam†which also slows enemy movement by 50%.
This is the bread and butter damage spell for shadow priests, doing good damage and having no cool down. Mind Flay is very good for damage / mana but is incapable of critical hits. However, it remains one of the most important talents for a shadow priest and must be taken, no questions asked.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: A
Improved Mind Blast:
Shortens the casting time of the Mind Blast spell.
This talent is almost always taken to a certain degree. PvP Priests tend to go 5/5 because Mind Blast criticals are where the huge hits come from and this talent allows them to cast more often. PvE priests tend to go no less than 3/5, and many still max the talent.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: F
Improved Psychic Scream:
Shortens the cool down timer of Psychic Scream.
Psychic Scream has a rough history with priests who often complain of the spell being bugged and easily broken. PvE priests rarely use Psychic Scream and thus have no desire to improve upon the skill. PvP priests take Improved Psychic Scream because it is marginally useful but more importantly because it is a requirement for the Silence talent.
PvE Grade: F
PvP Grade: C
Raid Grade: F
Shadow Reach:
Increases the distance at which shadow spells can be cast on the target.
Shadow Reach may sound dull compared to the flashy benefits of other talents but do not underestimate its importance. For all casters, fighting at maximum range is vitally important to their survival.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: C
Shadow Weaving:
Provides a chance that an offensive shadow spell will place a debuff on the target, making it 3% more vulnerable to shadow spells cast by any player. The debuff can stack up to 5x for a total of 15% added damage.
Any talent boasting a boost in damage should be considered. Shadow Weaving adds a 15% bonus not only for the priest, but any player who casts shadow spells against the target. Warlocks love shadow priests, and this talent is the reason why. The talent slips a grade in PvP due to the fact that enemy players are often killed before shadow weave can fully stack.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: A
Improved Fade:
Reduces the cool down timer on the Fade spell.
This talent is generally skipped over by priests. Like Shadow Affinity, the talent is utterly useless in solo or PvP play. In instance runs fade becomes an important skill. However, the group’s tanks and crowd controllers should be the main line of defense against aggro. If the priest is being forced to rely on fade, the group is most likely doomed by factors outside the priest’s control.
PvE Grade: C
PvP Grade: F
Raid Grade: F
Silence:
Interrupts any spell being cast by the target and then prevents any casting for 5 seconds.
Generally passed over by PvE priests who are unimpressed by the benefit of a talent that essentially requires 3 points (2/2 in Improved Psychic Scream is a requirement). However, for PvP priests this spell is a must have.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: D
Vampiric Embrace:
Returns 15% of shadow spell damage caused by the priest to be returned to party members as health.
A great talent for any shadow priest. Healing through damage is huge for soloing or group questing. In instances it works as a heal over time spell while causing damage. Once Shadowform is obtained it becomes the primary way for priests to heal themselves. It slips a grade in PvP due to the fact that enemy players can DPS much higher than PvE mobs and the priest will often have to use consumables or even cast heal to keep HP up.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: A
Improved Vampiric Embrace:
Increases the % of health returned from Vampiric Embrace.
Another talent taken in almost all shadow builds. Vampiric Embrace is a crucial skill for shadow priests and this talent makes V.E. more effective.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: A
Focused Mind:
Reduces the mana cost of Mind Flay, Mind Blast, and Mind Control.
This talent is a give or take depending on how heavy the priest is going in the shadow tree. If it is a minimalist build, this talent can be passed over while if it is a full shadow build this should be taken. In short, this talent allows more spells to be cast and ultimately reduces downtime. As mentioned in the Vampiric Embrace commentary, PvP combat is much more dependent on consumables, it is better to carry mana potions than rely on talents like Focused Mind.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: D
Raid Grade: A
Shadow Resilience:
Reduces the chance that the priest will be the recipient of a spell critical strike.
I have no personal experience with this spell so the commentary is based on theory. With that said, I see very few shadow builds taking this talent. For PvE builds it should definitely be skipped, while it could be marginally useful in PvP.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: D
Raid Grade: F
Darkness:
Increases damage done by the priest’s shadow spells.
As mentioned earlier in the Shadow Weaving commentary, any talent that boosts damage should be given consideration. Maxed out and then coupled with a stacked Shadow Weave these two talents combine to increase damage by 25%. Darkness is taken in most shadow builds.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: A
Shadowform:
Increases the damage of shadow spells by 15% and reduces physical damage by 15%. The priest cannot cast holy spells while in Shadowform.
Next to Mind Flay this is the most important talent for a shadow priest. If used with Darkness and Shadow Weave, the shadow priest’s damage is now increased by 40%. A priest’s DPS is very high now and the returns from Vampiric Embrace begin to make the priest viable as a DPS class in instances while the group chooses another class to “spot heal.â€
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: A
Shadow Power:
Increases the critical strike chance of Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death.
Shadow Word Death is not obtained until level 62 so for most priests this spell will only effect Mind Blast. However, a higher critical strike chance is very much worth taking and it begins to balance out the damage / mana gap between Mind Blast and Mind Flay. The talent gets a boost in PvP due to burst damage from critical strikes being more important in PvP.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: D
Misery:
Places a debuff on the target making it more vulnerable to all spell damage cast by party members.
Misery is triggered by the priest's DoTs and Mind Flay. Again, any talent that boosts damage is worth looking at. Try to continue thinking of damage boosting as a cumulative effect and not a single talent.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: A
Vampiric Touch:
A DoT spell that, while active, returns 5% of shadow damage caused by the priest to be returned as mana to the party.
Vampiric Touch adds another DoT to the priest’s ******** The spell is not as potent as Shadow Word Pain but has increased practicality due to its ability to return mana to the party. In instances this makes the priest even more attractive as a DPS class as all damage caused by the priest now returns 30% HP (with improved V.E.) and 5% mana to the party. The spell drops to a grade in PvP for two reasons. First, PvP is more dependent on consumables for mana. Secondly, it is not an instant cast spell and is much more challenging to use on moving targets in PvP.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: C
Raid Grade: A
Glossary:
SP: Shadow Priest
MF: Mind Flay
MB: Mind Blast
SW: Shadow Weaving
SWP: Shadow Word: Pain
SWD: Shadow Word: Death
VE: Vampiric Embrace
VT: Vampiric Touch
PWF: Power Word: Fortitude
PWS: Power Word: Shield
That's all for now. I'll add anything useful you guys post here, as soon as I can.
Special thanks to MookusOU, and Maxzzz
Edited, Mar 9th 2007 12:12pm by RedPhoenixxx
Edited, Aug 14th 2007 11:17am by RedPhoenixxx
Edited, Mar 27th 2008 11:12am by Nizdaar
Edited, Sep 9th 2008 2:58pm by Wordaen
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Shadow Priest FAQFollow
A few critiques.
1. I'd throw in a section about race, it's a rather trivial but very common question.
2. Include a section on priest terminology. Abbreviations for MF, MB, SWP, PWS, VT, VE etc. We use a lot of lingo in our posts.
3. As far as builds (especially the soloing one) I'd show some progression guides instead of a 70 soloing build. Not many people are truly "soloing" at 70, as most people solo to level up. This will maybe help alleviate some of the many "what talent should I take at level __" questions.
Here is my opinion, feel free to copy/paste it for the FAQs use. Some people may argue you should take Wand Specialization pre-40 but I think the pre40 shadow tree is strong enough that it isn't necessary. This is a leveling build and has some weakness in PvP due to bypassing Improved Psychic Scream and Silence.
5/5 Spirit tap
2/2 Improved Shadow Word Pain
3/5 Shadow Focus
1/1 Mind Flay
5/5 Improved Mind Blast
2/2 Shadow Reach
2/5 Shadow Weaving
1/1 Vampiric Embrace
2/2 Improved Vampiric Embrace
5/5 Shadow Weaving
3/3 Focused Mind
1/5 Darkness
1/1 Shadowform
Once you get to 40 you should have a relatively good feel for how to spend the remainder of your talent points. I suggest maxing out Darkness and Shadow Power followed by Vampiric Touch. At that point you are 50 and can either continue maxing the Shadow Tree or move over into a bit of Discipline. Personally I wouldn't go shadow-sub holy (except for Healing Focus) since Discipline compliments your shadow talents much better.
Also, I haven't PvPd much either since my 40s but I'd suggest a different build.
1. I'm not a big fan of improved inner fire, with Improved PWS and Psychic Scream you shouldn't have to rely on inner fire.
2. I don't think you need Martyrdom and Holy Focus. Take one or the other, and overall Holy Focus is better.
3. Max out shadow weaving. MF is your bread and butter spell in BGs and it stacks up those shadow weaves pretty quick.
So with that said I'd say use this build.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priest/talents.html?500230013000000000000200000000000000000000050232510251123051511
And if you find that you never use MB, take it down to 2/5 and bring Misery up to 4/5.
Edited, Feb 13th 2007 9:51am by MookusOU
Edited, Feb 13th 2007 9:52am by MookusOU
1. I'd throw in a section about race, it's a rather trivial but very common question.
2. Include a section on priest terminology. Abbreviations for MF, MB, SWP, PWS, VT, VE etc. We use a lot of lingo in our posts.
3. As far as builds (especially the soloing one) I'd show some progression guides instead of a 70 soloing build. Not many people are truly "soloing" at 70, as most people solo to level up. This will maybe help alleviate some of the many "what talent should I take at level __" questions.
Here is my opinion, feel free to copy/paste it for the FAQs use. Some people may argue you should take Wand Specialization pre-40 but I think the pre40 shadow tree is strong enough that it isn't necessary. This is a leveling build and has some weakness in PvP due to bypassing Improved Psychic Scream and Silence.
5/5 Spirit tap
2/2 Improved Shadow Word Pain
3/5 Shadow Focus
1/1 Mind Flay
5/5 Improved Mind Blast
2/2 Shadow Reach
2/5 Shadow Weaving
1/1 Vampiric Embrace
2/2 Improved Vampiric Embrace
5/5 Shadow Weaving
3/3 Focused Mind
1/5 Darkness
1/1 Shadowform
Once you get to 40 you should have a relatively good feel for how to spend the remainder of your talent points. I suggest maxing out Darkness and Shadow Power followed by Vampiric Touch. At that point you are 50 and can either continue maxing the Shadow Tree or move over into a bit of Discipline. Personally I wouldn't go shadow-sub holy (except for Healing Focus) since Discipline compliments your shadow talents much better.
Also, I haven't PvPd much either since my 40s but I'd suggest a different build.
1. I'm not a big fan of improved inner fire, with Improved PWS and Psychic Scream you shouldn't have to rely on inner fire.
2. I don't think you need Martyrdom and Holy Focus. Take one or the other, and overall Holy Focus is better.
3. Max out shadow weaving. MF is your bread and butter spell in BGs and it stacks up those shadow weaves pretty quick.
So with that said I'd say use this build.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priest/talents.html?500230013000000000000200000000000000000000050232510251123051511
And if you find that you never use MB, take it down to 2/5 and bring Misery up to 4/5.
Edited, Feb 13th 2007 9:51am by MookusOU
Edited, Feb 13th 2007 9:52am by MookusOU
Thanks man, I added the stuff.
Can we get this stickied? We really are the only class forum without any sort of a FAQ / Read this first sticky.
1 post
What are your thoughts on +crit?
Since BC came out i have been trying to get as much +crit stuff that i can find. I live by my MB as first hit and SWD for the final blow. By doing this, my +dmg has suffered but i feel that i kill stuff very fast.
What + dmg would you say a good 70 shadow priest should have?
I also go for int since it is related to +crit.
Since BC came out i have been trying to get as much +crit stuff that i can find. I live by my MB as first hit and SWD for the final blow. By doing this, my +dmg has suffered but i feel that i kill stuff very fast.
What + dmg would you say a good 70 shadow priest should have?
I also go for int since it is related to +crit.
bhodgson wrote:
What are your thoughts on +crit?
Since BC came out i have been trying to get as much +crit stuff that i can find. I live by my MB as first hit and SWD for the final blow. By doing this, my +dmg has suffered but i feel that i kill stuff very fast.
Since BC came out i have been trying to get as much +crit stuff that i can find. I live by my MB as first hit and SWD for the final blow. By doing this, my +dmg has suffered but i feel that i kill stuff very fast.
+Crit has gone from completely useless, to slightly useful. It's not the primary stat you should look for, but it is moderately useful. MB and SWD both benefit from it, and with the talents in Shadow Power you can easily get around 25% crit for these two spells.
I personally wouldnt take it over +dmg, since SWP, VT and MF are still our primary damage spells, especillay in raids/instances since both MB and SWD cause a lot of threat.
Quote:
what + dmg would you say a good 70 shadow priest should have?
I have around +650 at the moment, without too much effort. I think pre-raids anything over 600 should do some nice damage.
But, with a little effort (and tailoring), it seems easy to get around 700-750.
I like your use of the color green
Maxzzzz wrote:
I like your use of the color green
Thanks, that was the hardest part.
But I though [Lime] looked very nice.
+30% crit chance on MB and SW:D. +430 damage. Just dinged 70. Also, none of the spells have increased aggro. MB does not cause more threat now. I dps'ed in black morass yesterday, and could not take aggro off the tank. I also have no threat reduction talents...
Very nicely done.
I find Shadowgaurd extremely useful. At rank 7 (Lvl 68) you are doing 130 base shadow damage to a target 3x and it is proccing your Shadow Weaving. When I start a fight I usually have my 5 stack (+15% shadow dmg) up in no time.
Hex of Weakness.....eh.....
Quote:
Trolls only get Hex of Weakness and Shadowguard, neither of which is extremely useful.
I find Shadowgaurd extremely useful. At rank 7 (Lvl 68) you are doing 130 base shadow damage to a target 3x and it is proccing your Shadow Weaving. When I start a fight I usually have my 5 stack (+15% shadow dmg) up in no time.
Hex of Weakness.....eh.....
Shadowgaurd can proc blackout too I don't know about misery.
to the OP
quote 1
quote 2
I'm sorry but the uses of the word 'only' here is implying that the trolls priests do not have 'regeneration', 'berserking' or any of the other non-priest racials.
keeping in mind that 'berserking' will increase casting speed for 10 seconds.
Edited, Feb 16th 2007 11:02pm by Maxzzzz
to the OP
quote 1
Quote:
I will talk about both racials and Priest racials as though they were the same.
quote 2
Quote:
Trolls only get Hex of Weakness and Shadowguard,
I'm sorry but the uses of the word 'only' here is implying that the trolls priests do not have 'regeneration', 'berserking' or any of the other non-priest racials.
keeping in mind that 'berserking' will increase casting speed for 10 seconds.
Edited, Feb 16th 2007 11:02pm by Maxzzzz
37 posts
Ive seen Touch of Weakness make blackout proc before.
Thanks for the info, I haven't played a troll priest in a while.
Updated.
Updated.
I've been working on a talent breakdown over the last few days which gives brief descriptions, commentary, and then pvp and pve grades for each talent. You want me to post it up here Red?
Yeah man, that would be great!
[Edited 3/7/07]
This guide isn't set in stone. If you disagree with any of it and can make a reasonable case for why it should be changed I'm very open to different opinions. It will also be updated as patches change the game. Where I had no personal experience with a talent I admitted that my grades and commentary were based on theory. So with that said lets get on to the show.
Each lot begins with a brief explanation of the talent followed by a short commentary. Last, is a letter grade from A to F judging the spells usefulness in PvP, PvE, and Raid combat.
Spirit Tap:
Provides a spirit bonus and allows mana regeneration while casting if the priest lands the killing blow on a mob that grants experience. Key words: Killing blow.
An absolute must have for any priest who is leveling up.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: D
Raid Grade: N/A
Blackout:
Grants a chance that any damage dealing shadow spell will cause the target to be stunned for 3 seconds. The stun is not interrupted by damage.
Pre-Burning Crusade, Blackout was almost a given in shadow builds for both PvP and PvE. However, with the introduction of new damage boosting talents, Blackout has dropped in popularity. Most leveling builds now exclude Blackout. It is still considered a useful spell in PvP.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: D
Improved Shadow Word Pain:
Shadow Word Pain is among the best DoTs in the game and this talent only serves to make it even more potent. Almost all shadow builds incorporate Improved SWP.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: A
Shadow Affinity:
Reduces the amount of threat generated by shadow spells and thus lessens the chance a mob will attack the priest.
I have no personal experience with this talent so the grades are based on theory. However, most builds opt to bypass this talent. It is utterly useless when soloing or PvPing. It becomes effective when the shadow priest is staying in shadowform during an instance. The reality is that in most instances priests are not in shadowform and are healing.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: F
Raid Grade: A
Shadow Focus:
Decreases the target’s ability to resist shadow spells cast by the priest.
As a “filler†talent in order to get to Mind Flay almost all priests have at least 3/5 Shadow Focus. PvP priests tend to leave Shadow Focus at 3/5 while PvE priests tend to put 4 or 5 points here.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: C
Raid Grade: A
Mind Flay:
A damage spell that is spread over a 3 second “beam†which also slows enemy movement by 50%.
This is the bread and butter damage spell for shadow priests, doing good damage and having no cool down. Mind Flay is very good for damage / mana but is incapable of critical hits. However, it remains one of the most important talents for a shadow priest and must be taken, no questions asked.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: N/A
Improved Mind Blast:
Shortens the casting time of the Mind Blast spell.
This talent is almost always taken to a certain degree. PvP Priests tend to go 5/5 because Mind Blast criticals are where the huge hits come from and this talent allows them to cast more often. PvE priests tend to go no less than 3/5, and many still max the talent.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: F
Improved Psychic Scream:
Shortens the cool down timer of Psychic Scream.
Psychic Scream has a rough history with priests who often complain of the spell being bugged and easily broken. PvE priests rarely use Psychic Scream and thus have no desire to improve upon the skill. PvP priests take Improved Psychic Scream because it is marginally useful but more importantly because it is a requirement for the Silence talent.
PvE Grade: F
PvP Grade: C
Raid Grade: N/A
Shadow Reach:
Increases the distance at which shadow spells can be cast on the target.
Shadow Reach may sound dull compared to the flashy benefits of other talents but do not underestimate its importance. For all casters, fighting at maximum range is vitally important to their survival.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: N/A
Shadow Weaving:
Provides a chance that an offensive shadow spell will place a debuff on the target, making it 3% more vulnerable to shadow spells cast by any player. The debuff can stack up to 5x for a total of 15% added damage.
Any talent boasting a boost in damage should be considered. Shadow Weaving adds a 15% bonus not only for the priest, but any player who casts shadow spells against the target. Warlocks love shadow priests, and this talent is the reason why. The talent slips a grade in PvP due to the fact that enemy players are often killed before shadow weave can fully stack.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: A
Improved Fade:
Reduces the cool down timer on the Fade spell.
This talent is generally skipped over by priests. Like Shadow Affinity, the talent is utterly useless in solo or PvP play. In instance runs fade becomes an important skill. However, the group’s tanks and crowd controllers should be the main line of defense against aggro. If the priest is being forced to rely on fade, the group is most likely doomed by factors outside the priest’s control.
PvE Grade: C
PvP Grade: F
Raid Grade: F
Silence:
Interrupts any spell being cast by the target and then prevents any casting for 5 seconds.
Generally passed over by PvE priests who are unimpressed by the benefit of a talent that essentially requires 3 points (2/2 in Improved Psychic Scream is a requirement). However, for PvP priests this spell is a must have.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: D
Vampiric Embrace:
Returns 15% of shadow spell damage caused by the priest to be returned to party members as health.
A great talent for any shadow priest. Healing through damage is huge for soloing or group questing. In instances it works as a heal over time spell while causing damage. Once Shadowform is obtained it becomes the primary way for priests to heal themselves. It slips a grade in PvP due to the fact that enemy players can DPS much higher than PvE mobs and the priest will often have to use consumables or even cast heal to keep HP up.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: N/A
Improved Vampiric Embrace:
Increases the % of health returned from Vampiric Embrace.
Another talent taken in almost all shadow builds. Vampiric Embrace is a crucial skill for shadow priests and this talent makes V.E. more effective.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: N/A
Focused Mind:
Reduces the mana cost of Mind Flay, Mind Blast, and Mind Control.
This talent is a give or take depending on how heavy the priest is going in the shadow tree. If it is a minimalist build, this talent can be passed over while if it is a full shadow build this should be taken. In short, this talent allows more spells to be cast and ultimately reduces downtime. As mentioned in the Vampiric Embrace commentary, PvP combat is much more dependent on consumables, it is better to carry mana potions than rely on talents like Focused Mind.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: D
Raid Grade: B
Shadow Resilience:
Reduces the chance that the priest will be the recipient of a spell critical strike.
I have no personal experience with this spell so the commentary is based on theory. With that said, I see very few shadow builds taking this talent. For PvE builds it should definitely be skipped, while it could be marginally useful in PvP.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: D
Raid Grade: F
Darkness:
Increases damage done by the priest’s shadow spells.
As mentioned earlier in the Shadow Weaving commentary, any talent that boosts damage should be given consideration. Maxed out and then coupled with a stacked Shadow Weave these two talents combine to increase damage by 25%. Darkness is taken in most shadow builds.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: N/A
Shadowform:
Increases the damage of shadow spells by 15% and reduces physical damage by 15%. The priest cannot cast holy spells while in Shadowform.
Next to Mind Flay this is the most important talent for a shadow priest. If used with Darkness and Shadow Weave, the shadow priest’s damage is now increased by 40%. A priest’s DPS is very high now and the returns from Vampiric Embrace begin to make the priest viable as a DPS class in instances while the group chooses another class to “spot heal.â€
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: N/A
Shadow Power:
Increases the critical strike chance of Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death.
Shadow Word Death is not obtained until level 62 so for most priests this spell will only effect Mind Blast. However, a higher critical strike chance is very much worth taking and it begins to balance out the damage / mana gap between Mind Blast and Mind Flay. The talent gets a boost in PvP due to burst damage from critical strikes being more important in PvP.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: D
Misery:
Places a debuff on the target making it more vulnerable to all spell damage cast by party members.
Misery is triggered by the priest's DoTs and Mind Flay. Again, any talent that boosts damage is worth looking at. Try to continue thinking of damage boosting as a cumulative effect and not a single talent.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: N/A
Vampiric Touch:
A DoT spell that, while active, returns 5% of shadow damage caused by the priest to be returned as mana to the party.
Vampiric Touch adds another DoT to the priest’s ******** The spell is not as potent as Shadow Word Pain but has increased practicality due to its ability to return mana to the party. In instances this makes the priest even more attractive as a DPS class as all damage caused by the priest now returns 30% HP (with improved V.E.) and 5% mana to the party. The spell drops to a grade in PvP for two reasons. First, PvP is more dependent on consumables for mana. Secondly, it is not an instant cast spell and is much more challenging to use on moving targets in PvP.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: C
Raid Grade: A
Edited, Feb 23rd 2007 12:55pm by MookusOU
Edited, Mar 7th 2007 2:21am by MookusOU
Edited, Mar 7th 2007 2:23am by MookusOU
This guide isn't set in stone. If you disagree with any of it and can make a reasonable case for why it should be changed I'm very open to different opinions. It will also be updated as patches change the game. Where I had no personal experience with a talent I admitted that my grades and commentary were based on theory. So with that said lets get on to the show.
Each lot begins with a brief explanation of the talent followed by a short commentary. Last, is a letter grade from A to F judging the spells usefulness in PvP, PvE, and Raid combat.
Spirit Tap:
Provides a spirit bonus and allows mana regeneration while casting if the priest lands the killing blow on a mob that grants experience. Key words: Killing blow.
An absolute must have for any priest who is leveling up.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: D
Raid Grade: N/A
Blackout:
Grants a chance that any damage dealing shadow spell will cause the target to be stunned for 3 seconds. The stun is not interrupted by damage.
Pre-Burning Crusade, Blackout was almost a given in shadow builds for both PvP and PvE. However, with the introduction of new damage boosting talents, Blackout has dropped in popularity. Most leveling builds now exclude Blackout. It is still considered a useful spell in PvP.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: D
Improved Shadow Word Pain:
Shadow Word Pain is among the best DoTs in the game and this talent only serves to make it even more potent. Almost all shadow builds incorporate Improved SWP.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: A
Shadow Affinity:
Reduces the amount of threat generated by shadow spells and thus lessens the chance a mob will attack the priest.
I have no personal experience with this talent so the grades are based on theory. However, most builds opt to bypass this talent. It is utterly useless when soloing or PvPing. It becomes effective when the shadow priest is staying in shadowform during an instance. The reality is that in most instances priests are not in shadowform and are healing.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: F
Raid Grade: A
Shadow Focus:
Decreases the target’s ability to resist shadow spells cast by the priest.
As a “filler†talent in order to get to Mind Flay almost all priests have at least 3/5 Shadow Focus. PvP priests tend to leave Shadow Focus at 3/5 while PvE priests tend to put 4 or 5 points here.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: C
Raid Grade: A
Mind Flay:
A damage spell that is spread over a 3 second “beam†which also slows enemy movement by 50%.
This is the bread and butter damage spell for shadow priests, doing good damage and having no cool down. Mind Flay is very good for damage / mana but is incapable of critical hits. However, it remains one of the most important talents for a shadow priest and must be taken, no questions asked.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: N/A
Improved Mind Blast:
Shortens the casting time of the Mind Blast spell.
This talent is almost always taken to a certain degree. PvP Priests tend to go 5/5 because Mind Blast criticals are where the huge hits come from and this talent allows them to cast more often. PvE priests tend to go no less than 3/5, and many still max the talent.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: F
Improved Psychic Scream:
Shortens the cool down timer of Psychic Scream.
Psychic Scream has a rough history with priests who often complain of the spell being bugged and easily broken. PvE priests rarely use Psychic Scream and thus have no desire to improve upon the skill. PvP priests take Improved Psychic Scream because it is marginally useful but more importantly because it is a requirement for the Silence talent.
PvE Grade: F
PvP Grade: C
Raid Grade: N/A
Shadow Reach:
Increases the distance at which shadow spells can be cast on the target.
Shadow Reach may sound dull compared to the flashy benefits of other talents but do not underestimate its importance. For all casters, fighting at maximum range is vitally important to their survival.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: N/A
Shadow Weaving:
Provides a chance that an offensive shadow spell will place a debuff on the target, making it 3% more vulnerable to shadow spells cast by any player. The debuff can stack up to 5x for a total of 15% added damage.
Any talent boasting a boost in damage should be considered. Shadow Weaving adds a 15% bonus not only for the priest, but any player who casts shadow spells against the target. Warlocks love shadow priests, and this talent is the reason why. The talent slips a grade in PvP due to the fact that enemy players are often killed before shadow weave can fully stack.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: A
Improved Fade:
Reduces the cool down timer on the Fade spell.
This talent is generally skipped over by priests. Like Shadow Affinity, the talent is utterly useless in solo or PvP play. In instance runs fade becomes an important skill. However, the group’s tanks and crowd controllers should be the main line of defense against aggro. If the priest is being forced to rely on fade, the group is most likely doomed by factors outside the priest’s control.
PvE Grade: C
PvP Grade: F
Raid Grade: F
Silence:
Interrupts any spell being cast by the target and then prevents any casting for 5 seconds.
Generally passed over by PvE priests who are unimpressed by the benefit of a talent that essentially requires 3 points (2/2 in Improved Psychic Scream is a requirement). However, for PvP priests this spell is a must have.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: D
Vampiric Embrace:
Returns 15% of shadow spell damage caused by the priest to be returned to party members as health.
A great talent for any shadow priest. Healing through damage is huge for soloing or group questing. In instances it works as a heal over time spell while causing damage. Once Shadowform is obtained it becomes the primary way for priests to heal themselves. It slips a grade in PvP due to the fact that enemy players can DPS much higher than PvE mobs and the priest will often have to use consumables or even cast heal to keep HP up.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: N/A
Improved Vampiric Embrace:
Increases the % of health returned from Vampiric Embrace.
Another talent taken in almost all shadow builds. Vampiric Embrace is a crucial skill for shadow priests and this talent makes V.E. more effective.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: N/A
Focused Mind:
Reduces the mana cost of Mind Flay, Mind Blast, and Mind Control.
This talent is a give or take depending on how heavy the priest is going in the shadow tree. If it is a minimalist build, this talent can be passed over while if it is a full shadow build this should be taken. In short, this talent allows more spells to be cast and ultimately reduces downtime. As mentioned in the Vampiric Embrace commentary, PvP combat is much more dependent on consumables, it is better to carry mana potions than rely on talents like Focused Mind.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: D
Raid Grade: B
Shadow Resilience:
Reduces the chance that the priest will be the recipient of a spell critical strike.
I have no personal experience with this spell so the commentary is based on theory. With that said, I see very few shadow builds taking this talent. For PvE builds it should definitely be skipped, while it could be marginally useful in PvP.
PvE Grade: D
PvP Grade: D
Raid Grade: F
Darkness:
Increases damage done by the priest’s shadow spells.
As mentioned earlier in the Shadow Weaving commentary, any talent that boosts damage should be given consideration. Maxed out and then coupled with a stacked Shadow Weave these two talents combine to increase damage by 25%. Darkness is taken in most shadow builds.
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: N/A
Shadowform:
Increases the damage of shadow spells by 15% and reduces physical damage by 15%. The priest cannot cast holy spells while in Shadowform.
Next to Mind Flay this is the most important talent for a shadow priest. If used with Darkness and Shadow Weave, the shadow priest’s damage is now increased by 40%. A priest’s DPS is very high now and the returns from Vampiric Embrace begin to make the priest viable as a DPS class in instances while the group chooses another class to “spot heal.â€
PvE Grade: A
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: N/A
Shadow Power:
Increases the critical strike chance of Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death.
Shadow Word Death is not obtained until level 62 so for most priests this spell will only effect Mind Blast. However, a higher critical strike chance is very much worth taking and it begins to balance out the damage / mana gap between Mind Blast and Mind Flay. The talent gets a boost in PvP due to burst damage from critical strikes being more important in PvP.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: A
Raid Grade: D
Misery:
Places a debuff on the target making it more vulnerable to all spell damage cast by party members.
Misery is triggered by the priest's DoTs and Mind Flay. Again, any talent that boosts damage is worth looking at. Try to continue thinking of damage boosting as a cumulative effect and not a single talent.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: B
Raid Grade: N/A
Vampiric Touch:
A DoT spell that, while active, returns 5% of shadow damage caused by the priest to be returned as mana to the party.
Vampiric Touch adds another DoT to the priest’s ******** The spell is not as potent as Shadow Word Pain but has increased practicality due to its ability to return mana to the party. In instances this makes the priest even more attractive as a DPS class as all damage caused by the priest now returns 30% HP (with improved V.E.) and 5% mana to the party. The spell drops to a grade in PvP for two reasons. First, PvP is more dependent on consumables for mana. Secondly, it is not an instant cast spell and is much more challenging to use on moving targets in PvP.
PvE Grade: B
PvP Grade: C
Raid Grade: A
Edited, Feb 23rd 2007 12:55pm by MookusOU
Edited, Mar 7th 2007 2:21am by MookusOU
Edited, Mar 7th 2007 2:23am by MookusOU
6 posts
you forgot Symbol of Hope for Draenei, Racial spell: Regens X amount of many every 5 sec. for 15 secs.
First off, I'd change it to Leveling/Farming, PvP, and Raid PDS, rather than simply PvP/PvE.
Spirit Tap:
Leveling/Farming is A, PvP is about a C. It *can* be very useful, especially if some of your gear includes spirit, if you're forced to fight one guy right after the other, as in BG's. For raiding, it's use is limited, but possibly better than Blackout, especially on trash and if you can time your SW:D very well.
Blackout:
About a D for raiding, very limited.
Imp SW:P:
This can be of limited use in PvP, it really depends on how fast you (and your friends) can take down guys. Same thing with solo'ing. Raiding is definitely an A though.
Shadow Affinity:
While useless in PvP and limited in leveling, this is REQUIRED for raiding. Between the pure damage, the huge amounts of healing, and the mana regen, a priest is putting out more threat than someone with TWICE the DPS.
Shadow Focus:
Pretty much required 5/5 for raiding, as bosses have an innate 17% resist chance; this drops it down to a much more manageable 6% to get on your gear. PvP'ers can go as low as 2 points, or even lower if their gear has +hit on it and they have the talents elsewhere to progress (probably both Spirit Tap and Blackout).
Mind Flay:
Agree, of course.
Imp Mind Blast:
Leveling it's a nice talent to have, but highly overrated. Excellent for PvP, useless for raiding.
Improved Psychic Scream:
Gets an A simply because it's a prereq for Silence. Without Silence you've got the grades about right.
Shadow Reach:
Agree... possible to go without it, but much better to have it.
Shadow Weaving:
Is there a grade above A? :P
Improved Fade:
F in all 3 simply because there's so much better. Useless in PvP, near-useless in leveling, near-useless in raiding/instances, especially if the priest knows what they're doing and limits their aggro. Four seconds simply isn't worth it.
Silence:
A in PvP, D in leveling/grinding, unsure in raiding. In instances it's probably a C or D though, can be very useful for getting casters from pulling pats or something.
VE and Improved VE:
Agree.
Focused Mind:
Pretty much required for raiding, due to priest's inferior mana regen capabilities. Between VT and Focused Mind, Mind Flay shoudl cost about half the base mana cost.
Shadow Resilience:
F. Better talents can be taken, whether PvP, leveling, or raiding. Very sure it doesn't reduce chance to be critically healed, only critically hit.
Darkness and Shadowform:
Agree.
Shadow Power:
Probably a D in raiding. Mind Blast and SW:D are cast so little that it's certainly not worth 5 talent points. A in PvP, somewhere in the middle for leveling/farming.
Misery:
A in raiding. Also, your math is off, it's not 15%+15%+10%+5%, it's 1.15*1.15*1.1*1.05 for 52.7% extra damage.
Vampiric Touch:
Required for raiding as shadow, simple as that.
Spirit Tap:
Leveling/Farming is A, PvP is about a C. It *can* be very useful, especially if some of your gear includes spirit, if you're forced to fight one guy right after the other, as in BG's. For raiding, it's use is limited, but possibly better than Blackout, especially on trash and if you can time your SW:D very well.
Blackout:
About a D for raiding, very limited.
Imp SW:P:
This can be of limited use in PvP, it really depends on how fast you (and your friends) can take down guys. Same thing with solo'ing. Raiding is definitely an A though.
Shadow Affinity:
While useless in PvP and limited in leveling, this is REQUIRED for raiding. Between the pure damage, the huge amounts of healing, and the mana regen, a priest is putting out more threat than someone with TWICE the DPS.
Shadow Focus:
Pretty much required 5/5 for raiding, as bosses have an innate 17% resist chance; this drops it down to a much more manageable 6% to get on your gear. PvP'ers can go as low as 2 points, or even lower if their gear has +hit on it and they have the talents elsewhere to progress (probably both Spirit Tap and Blackout).
Mind Flay:
Agree, of course.
Imp Mind Blast:
Leveling it's a nice talent to have, but highly overrated. Excellent for PvP, useless for raiding.
Improved Psychic Scream:
Gets an A simply because it's a prereq for Silence. Without Silence you've got the grades about right.
Shadow Reach:
Agree... possible to go without it, but much better to have it.
Shadow Weaving:
Is there a grade above A? :P
Improved Fade:
F in all 3 simply because there's so much better. Useless in PvP, near-useless in leveling, near-useless in raiding/instances, especially if the priest knows what they're doing and limits their aggro. Four seconds simply isn't worth it.
Silence:
A in PvP, D in leveling/grinding, unsure in raiding. In instances it's probably a C or D though, can be very useful for getting casters from pulling pats or something.
VE and Improved VE:
Agree.
Focused Mind:
Pretty much required for raiding, due to priest's inferior mana regen capabilities. Between VT and Focused Mind, Mind Flay shoudl cost about half the base mana cost.
Shadow Resilience:
F. Better talents can be taken, whether PvP, leveling, or raiding. Very sure it doesn't reduce chance to be critically healed, only critically hit.
Darkness and Shadowform:
Agree.
Shadow Power:
Probably a D in raiding. Mind Blast and SW:D are cast so little that it's certainly not worth 5 talent points. A in PvP, somewhere in the middle for leveling/farming.
Misery:
A in raiding. Also, your math is off, it's not 15%+15%+10%+5%, it's 1.15*1.15*1.1*1.05 for 52.7% extra damage.
Vampiric Touch:
Required for raiding as shadow, simple as that.
Yeah I wanted to at least divide it into PvP and PvE. I have very little raiding experience so I didn't really think it would be good for me to base an entire section on theory. If you want to go ahead and do it feel free but I think for most the spells PvE and Raid grades would be the same. I'm not much in the analytical mood now but later I'll revise my post.
Thanks for the posts. I've added them, as well as rating for raiding.
Let me know if there's anything you disagree with, or want to add/change.
Let me know if there's anything you disagree with, or want to add/change.
Love the post... been a shadow priest forever and plan to continue to be one. With that being said couple of notes you may or may not want to throw in:
1. Mana Burn is a "shadow" damage spell and thus can proc blackout and heal/mana regen through VT and VE. (Great for your first cast against spell slingers to open up combat in PvE.)
2. I have found shadow reach to be near useless in most cases as things close fast and in most 5 man instances you do not have the room to be at max range. I have also found that as the battle flows and you try to stay at max range your tanks and melee dps'ers can get out of range as they move around. My belief is that this is maximized by our trying to stand at "x" distance.
3. I would downgrade silence to a "B" in PvP now that the horde has paladins. Pending on how the teams are grouped, concentration aura now has a 15% chance of stopping your spell cold. It is not as useful as it once was.
4. Blackout: hugely useful if you enjoy PvP whether world or BG. Between myself and a paladin we can keep enemies stunlocked for half a fight throw in a rogue and somebody will be dead before they can do anything. I repecced without it and had to get it back.
5. At level 70, spirit tap becomes nearly wasted as you do not often kill the target.
6. After you have you shadow tree filled the way you see fit. I highly recommend the following:
2/2 Healing Focus (sometimes you have to be the healer)
5/5 Unbreakable Will (Wanding is used, but not worth talent points)
5/5 Silent Resolve (Threat Reduction for anyone who groups is a must)
2/2 Improved Fortitude (We all buff the party right?)
1/1 Inner Focus (Free cast with +25% crit... why wouldn't you?)
3/3 Meditation (More Mana = More Damage)
**I have always been over a couple of talent points in Shadow and you may be more... These are the non shadow talents that I feel are the most helpful.**
That is all I have to add for now, but great to see a stickie.
1. Mana Burn is a "shadow" damage spell and thus can proc blackout and heal/mana regen through VT and VE. (Great for your first cast against spell slingers to open up combat in PvE.)
2. I have found shadow reach to be near useless in most cases as things close fast and in most 5 man instances you do not have the room to be at max range. I have also found that as the battle flows and you try to stay at max range your tanks and melee dps'ers can get out of range as they move around. My belief is that this is maximized by our trying to stand at "x" distance.
3. I would downgrade silence to a "B" in PvP now that the horde has paladins. Pending on how the teams are grouped, concentration aura now has a 15% chance of stopping your spell cold. It is not as useful as it once was.
4. Blackout: hugely useful if you enjoy PvP whether world or BG. Between myself and a paladin we can keep enemies stunlocked for half a fight throw in a rogue and somebody will be dead before they can do anything. I repecced without it and had to get it back.
5. At level 70, spirit tap becomes nearly wasted as you do not often kill the target.
6. After you have you shadow tree filled the way you see fit. I highly recommend the following:
2/2 Healing Focus (sometimes you have to be the healer)
5/5 Unbreakable Will (Wanding is used, but not worth talent points)
5/5 Silent Resolve (Threat Reduction for anyone who groups is a must)
2/2 Improved Fortitude (We all buff the party right?)
1/1 Inner Focus (Free cast with +25% crit... why wouldn't you?)
3/3 Meditation (More Mana = More Damage)
**I have always been over a couple of talent points in Shadow and you may be more... These are the non shadow talents that I feel are the most helpful.**
That is all I have to add for now, but great to see a stickie.
Just a small note:
Misery doesn't make them take more damage from just SW:Pain, Mind Flay, and Vamp Touch... it increases ALL spell damage taken by 5% inside the duration of the DoT.
Misery doesn't make them take more damage from just SW:Pain, Mind Flay, and Vamp Touch... it increases ALL spell damage taken by 5% inside the duration of the DoT.
Thanks WhiskeyDuck,
just a few points:
I found that SR is very useful for MF and Silence, both of which have a small reach. There are a few encounters where those 4 extra yeard on MF means being able to dps while staying out of an AOE.
It's also quite useful for PvP.
This is true, but not having Silence in PvP kinda means you're dead. It's not an imbalanced skill, but not having it seriously gimps your PvP ability.
As for the rest, I totally agree, but I think most of those points are somehwere in the sticky.
just a few points:
WhiskeyDuck wrote:
2. I have found shadow reach to be near useless in most cases as things close fast and in most 5 man instances you do not have the room to be at max range. I have also found that as the battle flows and you try to stay at max range your tanks and melee dps'ers can get out of range as they move around. My belief is that this is maximized by our trying to stand at "x" distance.
I found that SR is very useful for MF and Silence, both of which have a small reach. There are a few encounters where those 4 extra yeard on MF means being able to dps while staying out of an AOE.
It's also quite useful for PvP.
Quote:
3. I would downgrade silence to a "B" in PvP now that the horde has paladins. Pending on how the teams are grouped, concentration aura now has a 15% chance of stopping your spell cold. It is not as useful as it once was.
This is true, but not having Silence in PvP kinda means you're dead. It's not an imbalanced skill, but not having it seriously gimps your PvP ability.
As for the rest, I totally agree, but I think most of those points are somehwere in the sticky.
WhiskeyDuck:
Good point on mana burn.
I'd have to disagree with Shadow Reach. For PvP (and I assume raiding, haven't been there yet), Shadow Reach is excellent.
Silence is just as useful as it once was - pallies still aren't that common, and Horde has managed fine for the last 2 years.
As for Spirit Tap, it's still very, very useful at 70, and for raiding arguably more useful than Blackout. Time your SWD's well and you can easily get the killing blow at least half the time in 5-mans, not to mention its usefulness on bosses like Moroes where you're killing trash before the boss (extra mana = win!).
As for healing focus, wasted talent for a PvE shadow priest, at least after 60. If you're getting hit in BC instances, you're dead anyways. Also pretty much useless to a raiding shadow priest, as they will specifically be doing damage.
Similar with Improved Fortitude - in raids, there will almost always be a holy priest to buff, and your points are better put elsewhere. Outside of raids, if the extra 230 health would have meant the difference between wiping and not... :/
However, with Silent Resolve no longer effecting Shadow spells, it's now pretty much worthless for shadow priests, so Martyrdom and Improved Fort may actually be the way to go.
Good point on mana burn.
I'd have to disagree with Shadow Reach. For PvP (and I assume raiding, haven't been there yet), Shadow Reach is excellent.
Silence is just as useful as it once was - pallies still aren't that common, and Horde has managed fine for the last 2 years.
As for Spirit Tap, it's still very, very useful at 70, and for raiding arguably more useful than Blackout. Time your SWD's well and you can easily get the killing blow at least half the time in 5-mans, not to mention its usefulness on bosses like Moroes where you're killing trash before the boss (extra mana = win!).
As for healing focus, wasted talent for a PvE shadow priest, at least after 60. If you're getting hit in BC instances, you're dead anyways. Also pretty much useless to a raiding shadow priest, as they will specifically be doing damage.
Similar with Improved Fortitude - in raids, there will almost always be a holy priest to buff, and your points are better put elsewhere. Outside of raids, if the extra 230 health would have meant the difference between wiping and not... :/
However, with Silent Resolve no longer effecting Shadow spells, it's now pretty much worthless for shadow priests, so Martyrdom and Improved Fort may actually be the way to go.
I updated the talent guide so here is a list of the changes (still waiting for some of the raiding grades to come in and be debated):
1. Added Raid grades. I'm not qualified to grade them so I used other poster's grades where available. N/A when not.
2. Changed Spirit Tap PvP grade from F to D. A decent case was made for it being useful in PvP. However, I still feel that if C denotes "average" usefulness for any spell, that Spirit Tap is still below average usefulness in PvP. Although in revision, it is not utterly useless as I had it graded before.
3. Removed comments about critical heals regarding Shadow Resilience.
4. Removed incorrect math section in Misery.
5. Corrected description of Misery talent.
6. Changed Vampiric Embrace % to reflect most recent patch.
Edited, Mar 7th 2007 2:27am by MookusOU
1. Added Raid grades. I'm not qualified to grade them so I used other poster's grades where available. N/A when not.
2. Changed Spirit Tap PvP grade from F to D. A decent case was made for it being useful in PvP. However, I still feel that if C denotes "average" usefulness for any spell, that Spirit Tap is still below average usefulness in PvP. Although in revision, it is not utterly useless as I had it graded before.
3. Removed comments about critical heals regarding Shadow Resilience.
4. Removed incorrect math section in Misery.
5. Corrected description of Misery talent.
6. Changed Vampiric Embrace % to reflect most recent patch.
Edited, Mar 7th 2007 2:27am by MookusOU
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