He would do that anyway, considering Deep Wounds is based on your average weapon damage :P
To each their own, I just think it's a filler talent.
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deep wounds is filler for impale. no one takes deep wounds without impale.
with a big 2h, impale will make a 1000 ms crit 1100, or a 3000 ms crit 3300. it's kind of a big deal in pvp.
with a big 2h, impale will make a 1000 ms crit 1100, or a 3000 ms crit 3300. it's kind of a big deal in pvp.
shameless /bump
Cheers; although I leveled fury and solo to 60, and prot solo to 70, I think with this guide it might have been easier, and less frustrating.
-And-
Impale is just a nice increase to spike pvp damage. Assuming that you DO pvp, impale provides that little extra umph that can make it or break it. As for leveling, it is an okay talent. Overall it provides a 20% increase to your 10-30% crit damage. At 70, with arms spec and a 25% crit rate, and dps related gear I dealt about half crit damage half regular damage. So a 20% increase to half my damage is an overall 10% damage increase for me.
If you have a 30% crit rate, your critical overall damage will be more than your regular hits (generally), and the 20% increase to critical damage is tipped a little more towards being a great talent.
With only 10% crit rate you will be generally doing around less than a 1/4th critical damage, or a 3-4% damage increase. When compared to a 5% critical rate increase or a 3-4% damage increase over time...
PvE having ~15% or more critical rate will make impale more useful, imho.
PvP any increase to spike damage is nice.
Cheers; although I leveled fury and solo to 60, and prot solo to 70, I think with this guide it might have been easier, and less frustrating.
-And-
Impale is just a nice increase to spike pvp damage. Assuming that you DO pvp, impale provides that little extra umph that can make it or break it. As for leveling, it is an okay talent. Overall it provides a 20% increase to your 10-30% crit damage. At 70, with arms spec and a 25% crit rate, and dps related gear I dealt about half crit damage half regular damage. So a 20% increase to half my damage is an overall 10% damage increase for me.
If you have a 30% crit rate, your critical overall damage will be more than your regular hits (generally), and the 20% increase to critical damage is tipped a little more towards being a great talent.
With only 10% crit rate you will be generally doing around less than a 1/4th critical damage, or a 3-4% damage increase. When compared to a 5% critical rate increase or a 3-4% damage increase over time...
PvE having ~15% or more critical rate will make impale more useful, imho.
PvP any increase to spike damage is nice.
your retarded if you can't hold a decent bit of agro no matter what spec you are
the only thing that will start pulling agro is a rogue who likes to ambush on your first sunder, or a mage who charges up a pyroblast as you are charging/pulling
or shaman, they are a whole other story since you can be halfway thru a tanknspank boss fight and the elemental shaman will pull off 6 crits or get a couple lit overload procs, and then have the boss glued to them
I can't count the number of times I've done this on my shaman now since I specced elemental, it's gotten so retarded that the guy who usually tanks my heroics has forced me to get KTM so that I stop dpsing for a minute after I do an agro spike, :D 1400 lit bolts on a 2 second cast timer with 34% crit and 15% hit owns me
but at any other time than this I CANNOT GET AGRO
a prot tank who loses agro is doing something wrong
the only thing that will start pulling agro is a rogue who likes to ambush on your first sunder, or a mage who charges up a pyroblast as you are charging/pulling
or shaman, they are a whole other story since you can be halfway thru a tanknspank boss fight and the elemental shaman will pull off 6 crits or get a couple lit overload procs, and then have the boss glued to them
I can't count the number of times I've done this on my shaman now since I specced elemental, it's gotten so retarded that the guy who usually tanks my heroics has forced me to get KTM so that I stop dpsing for a minute after I do an agro spike, :D 1400 lit bolts on a 2 second cast timer with 34% crit and 15% hit owns me
but at any other time than this I CANNOT GET AGRO
a prot tank who loses agro is doing something wrong
Maybe the person who pulls aggro is doing something wrong. Learn to manage your DPS. Sunders are great, but there are other threat generators out there so mind those as well. Also, tanks don't hit very hard, so if you try your hardest to see if you can get something to crit, you will pull aggro.
Just the other night I was in Shadow Labs and my rl friend, who is a Shadow Priest, kept pulling aggro from me. For one he didn't let me establish aggro and two, he just Mind Flayed the whole time. I got tired of this and let him die about 5 times, and he still didn't learn, so I let the clothie tank. It didn't work too well. My point is, he didnt manage his DPS. The lock in the group, another rl friend, can pull aggro whenever he wants, but he minds his DPS until we're on a boss so he doesnt have a ton of mobs on him.
I know how to tank, but if the group starts DPSing mobs before I have a chance to establish Aggro, then all I can do is taunt, which only holds it for the meantime until I generate more threat then the person just did. So, the whole tank who can't hold aggro or loses aggro is doing something wrong is a foolish thing to say.
It's like saying its the kickers fault the field goal failed. It could have been the line, the snapper, or the holder. My point is, there are plenty of factors within the game for tanks to lose aggro. So the the person above me, great job!
Just the other night I was in Shadow Labs and my rl friend, who is a Shadow Priest, kept pulling aggro from me. For one he didn't let me establish aggro and two, he just Mind Flayed the whole time. I got tired of this and let him die about 5 times, and he still didn't learn, so I let the clothie tank. It didn't work too well. My point is, he didnt manage his DPS. The lock in the group, another rl friend, can pull aggro whenever he wants, but he minds his DPS until we're on a boss so he doesnt have a ton of mobs on him.
I know how to tank, but if the group starts DPSing mobs before I have a chance to establish Aggro, then all I can do is taunt, which only holds it for the meantime until I generate more threat then the person just did. So, the whole tank who can't hold aggro or loses aggro is doing something wrong is a foolish thing to say.
It's like saying its the kickers fault the field goal failed. It could have been the line, the snapper, or the holder. My point is, there are plenty of factors within the game for tanks to lose aggro. So the the person above me, great job!
Try holding agro against a dps shaman that use's frost shock and earth shock. No warrior spec can 'hold' agro against that. Requires a taunt.
Any other class that has a 'high' threat skill can 'pull' agro. Every clothy worth their salt
If your dps doesn't pay attention, doesn't know how to play, and/or doesn't have an agro drop, they can pull agro.
Other classes can generate more threat than a warrior, especially due to all of their threat building skills are scaling very nicely with gear. While the bread and butter of warriors do not scale as nicely.
Shield slam + high shield block values ftw though.
Any other class that has a 'high' threat skill can 'pull' agro. Every clothy worth their salt
- can
If your dps doesn't pay attention, doesn't know how to play, and/or doesn't have an agro drop, they can pull agro.
Other classes can generate more threat than a warrior, especially due to all of their threat building skills are scaling very nicely with gear. While the bread and butter of warriors do not scale as nicely.
Shield slam + high shield block values ftw though.
I request a sticky.
But i also request a horde quest update added. Since this seems alliance quest oriented...
Edited, Apr 10th 2007 12:48am by devioususer
But i also request a horde quest update added. Since this seems alliance quest oriented...
Edited, Apr 10th 2007 12:48am by devioususer
bump for a couple recent threads...
Scholar
32 posts
Started playing WoW back in Jan, and have my war at 68 now.. this thread was a *huge* help to me. (Try finding any good talent builds on the o-boards...) The little chart on item suffixes past 58 (of the bear / soldier / etc.) was handy when sifting thru the post-BC gear. So a bump for great justice!
If I level another warrior, I wonder if going 2-h fury and getting Improved Slam through the 30's would be more efficient. Before I got MS, I used Slam a ton, great for pouring out DPS and dumping rage. Sweeping Strikes is good, no question, but I find you're in 1-on-1 situations a lot more than 1-on-2 while grinding. Then respec at 40 for MS.
If I level another warrior, I wonder if going 2-h fury and getting Improved Slam through the 30's would be more efficient. Before I got MS, I used Slam a ton, great for pouring out DPS and dumping rage. Sweeping Strikes is good, no question, but I find you're in 1-on-1 situations a lot more than 1-on-2 while grinding. Then respec at 40 for MS.
Bumping for the illiterates' sake
eeeew... endless rage...
i wrote that back when er was pretty much required for arms builds. i'll have to update the level 51+ talent choices.
i wrote that back when er was pretty much required for arms builds. i'll have to update the level 51+ talent choices.
Nice nice thread. For once, you don't see people flaming one another for not following the cookie-cutter spec (if there is one). I'm an Arms warrior and I love it. I've often wondered what it would be like if I didn't have MS. I used to take 5/5 sword spec but took polearms instead. Now I have Death Wish and MS. Makes fighting those priests and warlocks a little easier.
ha ha ty...
notes to self: bookmark this thread so you don't have to page through alla to find it. and fix the later talent builds
notes to self: bookmark this thread so you don't have to page through alla to find it. and fix the later talent builds
aight
i fixed the broken premium-only links, the crappy er builds, and added a couple little bits of info so it should be a little more up to date than it was yesterday :)
i fixed the broken premium-only links, the crappy er builds, and added a couple little bits of info so it should be a little more up to date than it was yesterday :)
3 posts
Ok so ive read this entire thread and ive seen quite a few things i agree and dissagree with.
First off for the tanking issue. I find that any warrior in any comperable tanking gear no matter what his talent build is "Can" tank but only if at least somewhat skilled in there class. I use KTM threat meter as a must with my guild to monitor threat but even without that. there are so many abilities in Battle and Deffensive stances to hold aggro and deal with it efficiently. And this does include thunderclap and demoralizing shout which will better help you as a tank and as part of the group. But with Mocking blow, taunt, sunder and countless other interupts along with Mortal strike in a tanking fight does help. Ive had long disscussions on the fact of how much MS can help in a bossfight and i do understand that you do loose that percentage of free threat from the Prot tree when you dont get Defiance but i see it as gaining more damage and crit and gaining survival skills such as Endless rage and Second wind. The big downside is the fact you drop quicker in health. But as any warrior should know, your main concern in any group is to have a good healer who can stay focused and keep the heals on. And thats my piece on that subject. Now on to another.
I see all these builds that go back and forth and i do see how some of them could be quite effective. Ive speced all three tree's pre TBC and found i loved Arms and never fealt the urge to try anything other then DW/Fury. And while its an amazing setup for an almost DOT feel i fealt more vulnurable and open then having the massive white damage ontop of the intants such as MS, OP, Thunderclap and others. And find that Arms is the more cookie cutter of the ways to spec but it is tried and true. My personal spec is http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TAMcdhboghdioVx0VZc
But im always looking for ways to improve it. This thread has alot of helpful topics.
Ok and in leaving i read a few posts back on here how the DW/Fury took the adds that came along and made it sound like its hard to take many mobs while in arms and all ive got to say is.
Sweeping strikes + Retaliation + Whirlwind (rinse and repeat) = Whirlwind of death
First off for the tanking issue. I find that any warrior in any comperable tanking gear no matter what his talent build is "Can" tank but only if at least somewhat skilled in there class. I use KTM threat meter as a must with my guild to monitor threat but even without that. there are so many abilities in Battle and Deffensive stances to hold aggro and deal with it efficiently. And this does include thunderclap and demoralizing shout which will better help you as a tank and as part of the group. But with Mocking blow, taunt, sunder and countless other interupts along with Mortal strike in a tanking fight does help. Ive had long disscussions on the fact of how much MS can help in a bossfight and i do understand that you do loose that percentage of free threat from the Prot tree when you dont get Defiance but i see it as gaining more damage and crit and gaining survival skills such as Endless rage and Second wind. The big downside is the fact you drop quicker in health. But as any warrior should know, your main concern in any group is to have a good healer who can stay focused and keep the heals on. And thats my piece on that subject. Now on to another.
I see all these builds that go back and forth and i do see how some of them could be quite effective. Ive speced all three tree's pre TBC and found i loved Arms and never fealt the urge to try anything other then DW/Fury. And while its an amazing setup for an almost DOT feel i fealt more vulnurable and open then having the massive white damage ontop of the intants such as MS, OP, Thunderclap and others. And find that Arms is the more cookie cutter of the ways to spec but it is tried and true. My personal spec is http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TAMcdhboghdioVx0VZc
But im always looking for ways to improve it. This thread has alot of helpful topics.
Ok and in leaving i read a few posts back on here how the DW/Fury took the adds that came along and made it sound like its hard to take many mobs while in arms and all ive got to say is.
Sweeping strikes + Retaliation + Whirlwind (rinse and repeat) = Whirlwind of death
To the poster above. Take out the 5 in Imp MS and the 1 in endless rage...they're bunk. Why would you have a 2h spec without the 2h wep specialization? Take the points out of imp HS and put them somewhere else. I think you should take a look at some of the 31/30 specs and see how you like them. Can we sticky this yet?
well since the recent changes to the arms and fury trees killed my original talent guide i (literally) threw together this little ditty:
10-14 - cruelty
15-19 - unbridled wrath
20--- - piercing howl
21-24 - commanding presence
25-29 - enrage
30--- - sweeping strikes
31-32 - imp slam
33-34 - weapon mastery
35-39 - flurry
40--- - bloodthirst
41-43 - precision
44-46 - tactical mastery
47-51 - deflection
52-53 - imp charge
54-56 - imp tclap
57-58 - imp overpower
59--- - anger management
60-62 - deep wounds
63-64 - impale
65-66 - 2H spec
67--- - deathwish
68-70 - weapon spec
this pretty much focuses on getting damage-oriented talents and keeping a big slow 2H weapon.
10-14 - cruelty
15-19 - unbridled wrath
20--- - piercing howl
21-24 - commanding presence
25-29 - enrage
30--- - sweeping strikes
31-32 - imp slam
33-34 - weapon mastery
35-39 - flurry
40--- - bloodthirst
41-43 - precision
44-46 - tactical mastery
47-51 - deflection
52-53 - imp charge
54-56 - imp tclap
57-58 - imp overpower
59--- - anger management
60-62 - deep wounds
63-64 - impale
65-66 - 2H spec
67--- - deathwish
68-70 - weapon spec
this pretty much focuses on getting damage-oriented talents and keeping a big slow 2H weapon.
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