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EVERY QUESTION ANSWERED HEREFollow

#1 Jul 21 2005 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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OK, let’s face it. You’re probably here to ask a question. Chances are *somebody* has answered that question in the past, so before you start a whole ‘nother thread, please do everyone a favor and check to see if it has been answered already.

Where do you look? Why, right here!

This is my attempt to compile any and every common, useful question you might have to ask about hunters or otherwise use this forum for. While I am not a thread ****, per se, I do get tired of answering the same questions over and over and over and over and…(get the idea?) At level 60, agi converts to crit percentage at a 53 to 1 ratio.

I don't pretend that this will answer *every* question, as the title indicates, but it should answer all the common ones. If you have a more complicated or unusual question and you don't see it, by all means start a thread for it. However, if you ask a completely blank open-ended question that is answered in this FAQ, like "what's the best pet?" or "what's the best race?" or "what's the best talent build for kicking ***?" or basically any other question that contains the word 'best' with no specific details, you will be mocked and rated-down. Consider yourself warned.

If you know a question that should be on this thread but isn't, post a reply with it. (I wouldn't mind if you also included the answer, assuming you know it. I'm not the single authority on hunter-ing.)


The pre-1.7 version of this FAQ can be found here.



IF YOUR QUESTION IS ABOUT PETS, GO TO THE FIRST POST ON PAGE TWO. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT TALENTS, GO TO THE TOP OF PAGE THREE.

Questions related to specific skills are in the second post on this page.



GENERAL QUESTIONS

What is a hunter good for?

Hunters are the ranged combat class in WoW. Since they don't (really) have magic, they have some limited combat abilities for if something does get in their face. They also have beast pets whose primary purpose is to allow them to use ranged combat while soloing.

After level 40, they wear stronger armor than any classes other that warriors or paladins, (but not use shields like the other mail class,) plus other defensive abilities such as a high dodge and parry rate. They can also use all weapons other than maces or wands. Hunters are excellent soloists and arguably the best pullers in the game. Unfortunately neither of these skills come into play much during most groups.


Are hunters fun?

Yes, hunters are fun. Any class in the game is fun or not fun, depending on who you ask. I personally despise playing warlocks and druids, but other people think they're the best classes in the game.

Hunters are not an in-your-face class like a rogue or warrior. They aren't a powerful healer or AE damage dealer that has a concrete role in a group. But they are fun for being what they are. If the concept of a hunter sounds appealing to you, you will probably have fun playing one.


Do hunters suck at PvP?
What is the dead zone?
How do I jump shot?

Yes and no. The bottom line is that every class has it's strengths and weaknesses. A hunter, on average, can beat some classes easily, like rogues, and have a lot of trouble with others, like druids.

There are plenty of ways hunters are useful in a PvP environment. On a PvP server, Track Humanoid is invaluable, as is Freezing Trap. The "jump shot" allows a hunters to deal limited damage while outrunning their opponents by doing a 360 mid-air and firing an instant shot while facing backwards. They do however suffer greatly from the "dead zone" - the region outside of melee reach, but still too close to use a ranged weapon -- between 5 and 8 yards. Mages and druids in particular are excellent hunter killers because they can root you and stand in this null space where you can't fight back, and nuke you to death.

In battlegrounds, hunters can often have very interesting roles, particularly defensive ones such as guarding the flag in Warsong Gulch or a node in Arathi Basin. Between tracking to see your opponents coming, and being able to put freezing and frost traps down to stop aggressors, hunters make good guardians.

Performing a true jump shot is a complicated mess of pushing buttons on your mouse and keyboard in well-coordinated fashion, so I’m not going to take three paragraphs to explain how to do one. The easier thing to do is simply strafe, since you run just as fast as strafing, and as long as your target is more in front of than in back of you, you can still hit it.

This is as much as I'm prepared to say specifically about PvP.


How do I beat a...?

You'll have to use every trick in the book and think for yourself. There really isn't much anyone can do to magically make you a better player in PvP besides reminding you of what abilities you have. As the posters at the official boards would say, L2P.


What's the best race?

No race is the single best. They all have advantages. First, let it be said that STARTING STATS DO NOT MATTER. Don't pick a Night Elf over a Dwarf because of the difference in starting agility. My character has around 400 agility, and if I had been a Dwarf rather than a Night Elf, I'd have around 393. Big deal.

As far as racial attributes go...
Night Elves can go unseen with Shadowmeld, which is particularly useful for Aimed Shot, and get an extra 1% dodge.
Dwarves can cleanse poisons using Stone Form, and get a +5 bonus to using guns. (Effectively they attack like a character one level higher.)
Tauren have extra HP and can War Stomp to stun targets in close range to help them get back to range.
Orcs have pets that do greater damage, and a bonus to axes and resistance to stun/knockdown.
Trolls have a bonus to using bows, and can give themselves a small haste effect in the form of Berserking every few minutes.

But play what you want to play. That is more important than being the "perfect" hunter.


Should I use bows or guns?

Dwarves should favor guns. Engineers will probably favor guns. For anyone else, it doesn't really matter.

At lower levels, guns generally hit a little harder and bows fire a little faster. They have the same quivers/ammo pouches, same store-bought ammunition, and have neither really has a distinct advantage over the other, except that engineers can make bullets. A hunter should know how to use either, and be prepared to use whatever the best weapon is that they can pick up, or whatever they personally prefer. (I don't like the constant noise a gun makes, but I'm also an elf, so it makes sense I would use a bow.)


What about crossbows?

Crossbows are exceedingly rare in the game. They work just like bows - using arrows out of a quiver - but they have their own separate weapon skill. Crossbows as a general rule are very slow. Before patch 1.10 and "normalization" that took away most of the advantage of picking a weapon just because it was slow, crossbows were extremely popular. Before level 50, you might very well never see a crossbow unless you seek them out.


Which is better - a 2-hand weapon or dual wield?

Use whatever has the best stats, and don't worry too much about damage on the weapons. Since a hunter's strength is fighting at range, they do not need to focus on their melee DPS.

Generally speaking, a 2-hander will have better stats, but a pair of 1H weapons offer greater flexibility. At endgame, there are enchants that can add 25 (2H) or 15 (1H) agi to your weapons, which come out fairly evenly except perhaps for the cost.

In terms of actually meleeing, 2H is better during PvP when you are going to run by with a Raptor Strike and a Wing Clip and go back to ranged, because that one attack you make will be much stronger, but dual wield can do as much autoattack damage.

On that note, don't roll against a rogue or a warrior on a melee weapon that purely does damage and has no stats or other factors. You do *not* need a high DPS dagger with a chance on hit to do extra magic damage. This creates a lot of enmity toward hunters from other classes.


When do I get...?
Pets - level 10
Dual Wield - level 20
Aspect of the Cheetah - level 20
Feign Death - level 30
Mail armor proficiency - level 40
Shields - never.
Plate armor - never.
A well-defined group role - never.


Where do I learn to use <some weapon type>?

In every major city, somewhere, there is a weapon trainer. Ask a guard where this person is. The weapon trainer for a city only teaches certain weapons, but if he doesn't teach what you want, he can tell you who (in another city) does.


What are the most important attributes for hunters?

Agility is number one. No questions asked. That doesn't mean you should switch items because one has a single point of agility more if you are sacrificing other stats, though.

Stamina, Intellect, and Spirit are all of some benefit to hunters, although most will favor Stamina over the other two. Some hunters argue that a hunter should not get hit, and thus more HP is irrelevant, but more mana lets them fight longer, so they try to get intellect. If shots didn't trigger the 5-second rule that halts mana regen for 5 seconds after a successful "spell", spirit would be superior for hunters.

Later in level, you will start seeing other qualities on equipment. Agility is good because it increases your Attack Power and your chance to crit. There are items that specifically increase one of those two factors, and are important to your damage output. There are also +hit% modifiers that make you less likely to miss.

While usually the last thing hunters look at, defensive attributes like armor and chance to dodge are of some limited benefit. Agility also increases your chance to dodge and parry, as well as your armor.


How does attack power, chance to crit, and chance to hit work?
What is DPS?

Attack Power (AP) and crit chance increase your damage in different ways.

AP increases your basic DPS by 1 DPS per 14 points of AP. Note that DPS stands for damage-per-second, and is a rate, not an amount per hit. So your attack power will scale to give slower weapons the right amount more that they should do. This has some ramifications regarding abilities that use weapon damage after these modifiers, such as Aimed Shot and Multishot.

Crit chance gives you better odds to get a critical hit. Items that affect this increase it by 1%, usually. A crit will deal double damage, or if you have the Mortal Shots talent, x2.3 damage. A large number of crits creates "spiky" damage that can steal aggro early in the fight, and hunters that focus on "crit gear" will often have lower basic DPS since they lack attack power, but critical chance is another important way to increase your overall damage output.

Note that agility increases your ranged attack power by 2 per point of agility (and 1 for melee), and roughly every 53 points of agility increases a hunter's critical rate by 1%. This crit rate conversion is specific to hunters, and is the worst of all the classes in the game. People speculate why, but nobody has come up with a reason that really satisfies why it is nearly double (or half) that of any other class. (Rogues are 29, other classes are 20.)

Chance to hit affects your accuracy. Loosely speaking, you have a 95% chance to not miss an even-level target. (This is actually based on the difference between your weapon skill and the target's defense skill, so higher level creatures and warriors with lots of +defense will be missed more often.) Adding 1% chance to hit adds to this 95%. There is some cap on your hit rate; you can not get 100% chance to hit.


English translation? How should I decide which gear is better?

1 AP = 1/14 DPS (pre-crit)
1% crit = 1% of your tooltip DPS, or 1.3% with Mortal Shots
1% hit = 1% of your tooltip DPS, until you add 5 or 6%.
1 agi = 1/7 DPS + 1/53 of the crit line (roughly 6 agi to 1 DPS)

By tooltip DPS, I mean go to your character window and mouse over your damage and use the number that gives you. So if you had 150 DPS listed and no Mortal Shots, 1% crit and 1% hit would add 1.5 DPS...which would take about 21 AP or 10 agility to equal.

1 agi is also good for 2 armor and about 26 agi is 1% dodge.
1 int is 15 mana.
1 sta is 10 HP.
1 spi is 1/4 mana regen every 2 seconds.


Where do I view my critical rate?

If you mouse over your "attack" ability in your spellbook, it will give you your melee crit rate. There is nowhere to directly see your ranged crit rate, but a hunter's ranged crit rate will be the same as the melee, except if the skill of your current melee weapon is lower or if you have the Lethal Shots talent that will raise it by up to 5%. A 1 point difference in the weapon skills makes a noticeable difference in the end result, so make sure they are *equal*.


What are the best enchants for a hunter?
Why are there no ranged weapon enchants?


The best enchants are the ones that add to the things mentioned in the "best attributes" question. Increased melee damage and weapon procs like Crusader are not generally worth the expense, although if you like the orange glow of a Demonslaying enchant on your spear, go for it.

Ask your guild enchanter what he can enchant that would be useful. I wouldn’t advise heavily investing in enchanting before 60, because you will replace your gear every couple levels, but at 60, you might consider the +15 agi weapon, +7 agi glove, +7 agi boot, +9 sta bracer, and +100 HP or +4 stats chest enchants.

For head and legs, you will need special items called librams, that involve doing a small repeatable quest. There are librams that, among other things, add 100 HP, 1% haste, 1% dodge, 20 points of fire resistance, or 8 points to an attribute of your choice - to either head or legs. The best libram is a quest out of Zul'gurub called Falcon's Call that will add 1% hit, 10 sta, and 22 ranged attack power.

There are no ranged weapon enchants. I'm not entirely sure why, but this is where engineering comes in. Scopes can modify ranged weapons to add +damage effects the same way +damage enchants modify melee weapons. There is also a scope that adds 3% chance to hit.


What is the hunter's role in a group?

A hunter's primary role in a group is to safely deal damage. They have other possible roles, but 90% of the time, your group will want you to just stand in the back and shoot. Note that that means not taking aggro, running into other creatures to get a clear shot, or breaking sheep.

Other things you can do for your group include:
  • Pull - hunters can feign death, take one creature out of the fight with freeze trap, designate a target with Hunter's Mark, and are masters of taking and dropping hate.
    Crowd Control - Freezing Trap will work on nearly every creature in the game. While you must be out of combat to place it, it affects the first target to run across it, and it doesn't work extremely long when the effect isn't broken by someone hitting the frozen target, freeze trap is still a very powerful tool. Also, your pet can sometimes off-tank things in a pinch; at higher levels, this isn't usually recommended, as Fido will not weather too many hits from elites, but better your kitty than your healer!
    Scout - hunters can track, meaning they can know if something is nearby without walking up to see it. Hunters can also use their pet with Eyes of the Beast to go exploring; even if the pet aggroes something, as long as he doesn’t bring it back to the party, it doesn’t matter.
    Tank - it's a pretty sad day when this happens in a group, but in some cases and with the right talents, your pet can tank single targets, and if there is no healer, you will blow all your mana trying to keep it alive. (This is generally a much more acceptable thing to do before level 50 than after.)


  • Why do people not want hunters in their group?

    Some people like to make generalizations about members of a class based on one bad experience, or what others tell them. Here are a few reasons why people have bad opinions of hunters.
    1) The idiot total. There are too many of us altogether. This can be a direct issue, (rarely room in a group for one,) but also this is a byproduct of it being a perceived "cool" class and a "l33t soloist", and so hunters have an overabundance of dipsh*ts.
    2) No clear-cut group role other than damage, which other classes can out-perform. Hunters don't really do anything in a group nobody else can do, and they do NOT outdamage rogues or mages, contrary to what someone will inevitably reply and try to contradict. Damage meters don't prove anything, and neither do poorly-equipped rogues or clueless mages. Further, because it is rare for some hunters to get into a pick-up group, they often don't know what they're doing and mess up, which leads to other people wanting hunters in their group even less.
    3) The melee weapon myth. Rogues and warriors always complain that "this one time in band camp, a hunter rolled on my Dal'Rend's weapon. WTF is up with that?" There are times when a hunter should *not* roll on a melee weapon, but for every time that has happened, there has been another where a hunter was rolling on a weapon that would help him and a rogue declared that because it was a melee weapon he could use, clearly he was entitled to it because he deals primarily melee damage, so he needs it more. A valid argument, until the agility and attack power of the weapon come into play, which also help the hunter's ranged damage. There is also the added myth that hunters are the most common ninja looters, which is bull, cause everyone knows rogues are the thieves in this game. (Literally!)


    What is a hunter weapon?

    "Hunter weapon!" is a running joke among players, mostly started by idiotic comments on a site similar to this one called Thottbot. People there like to speculate on which class an item is good for, as if they have nothing better to do. At some point, it became a nominal standard to call any weapon a hunter weapon, just because hunters *can* use anything but maces, and certain hunters have a tendency to roll on anything they can use.

    A true hunter weapon is a decent ranged weapon, or a melee weapon that helps a hunter directly increase their ranged damage or their survivability.


    Why do hunters cost so much / use so much room in their bags?

    In reality, hunters don’t cost more than other classes, but it sure seems that way after buying ammunition and pet food, plus all their other necessities. The costs of these things add up, but other classes have expenses too. Reagents, armor repairs, food/drink, poisons, etc. Do they compare to buying a stack of Roasted Quail and 10 stacks of Thorium ammo? I dunno, ask a level 60 warrior…and remember you don’t need crafted ammo.

    The real kicker is that hunters can typically pick up less stuff before they return to town because of the quiver. There's really little that can be done about this. Take tradeskills that don't involve gathering 10 different stacks of herbs or generating more leather than you can pick up if this is an issue for you. However, I can also cite examples of how other classes face this problem as well…just not from level 1.


    What are good tradeskills for a hunter?

    There are four choices that are considered somewhat normal.

    1. Mining/Engineering. This lets you build guns and create ammo so you don't have to pay for it. The irony is that Engineering creates more headaches than it solves, because it takes up massive amounts of bag space, costs a ton of money to save you a little bit on ammo costs, and doesn't create anything you can sell. You do get Targeting Dummies, Goblin Jumper Cables, and scopes out of the deal, though. The main reason most players do engineering is for the “toys” – trinkets like the decombobulator ray and mind control cap.

    2. Skinning/Leatherworking. A great choice in the beginning, but later on leatherworking starts to suck because there are very few mail recipes and the ones there are are both hard to make and also more often geared toward a shaman. This will definitely help you before level 40, though, and you can continue to sell stacks of leather later on. A huge upside to skinning is that unlike other collecting skills, it won't interfere with your tracking.

    3. Herbalism/Alchemy. Hunters benefit less from alchemy than most classes, but Elixirs of Agility and of the Mongoose are very helpful, and alchemy is one of the few tradeskills you can profit from if you know how, since everyone needs a potion or two at some point. Don’t overlook this one.

    4. Mining/Skinning. This is the standard "collector" tradeskill set for farming items for others. People out to make cash often take this set-up to find things to sell on the AH. Unfortunately, this doesn't work as well with hunters as other classes because they have more limited bag space, but it can still work. Mining can be replaced with herbalism.

    Note that First Aid, Fishing, and Cooking are not technically tradeskills, and do not count against your limit of two. All hunters should do First Aid. Fishing and Cooking help feed your pet, but aren't necessary as they can be a huge waste of time. (If Blizzard would add some high-level cooking recipes that don't require fishing, maybe I could do something with my capped Cooking skill!)


    What's the best weapon?

    Best in what way? The easiest top weapon to name is Rhok’delar, the class “epic.” However, there are weapons with higher DPS than Rhok out of dungeons more difficult than Molten Core. The most damaging weapons right now are Ashjre’thul, a crossbow from Blackwing Lair, and Huhuran's Stinger, a bow from Ahn'qiraj. The problem is that the “best” weapons only come from endlessly raiding high-end dungeons with a group of 40 people, or spending 26 hours a day PvP-ing.

    Outside of raiding, some of the most popular weapons include the Carapace Spine Crossbow, Bloodseeker, Dwarven Hand Cannon, and Ancient Bone Bow. There are other decent choices, like Stoneshatter, Xorothian Firestick, and Deep Strike Bow.


    Is Hurricane any good?

    This particular item gets enough attention to merit its own question. The Hurricane is an exceptionally fast weapon with very good DPS for its level. This makes it useful in PvE, where steady damage from autoshot rules. However, the ammo consumption is very high, and by the time you hit 60, there are some much better weapons out there. Doing some math, out of the "top" weapons in the game, Hurricane ranked 38th out of 39. The Hurricane is a decent weapon, but it's highly overrated.


    Why does weapon speed matter?
    What is normalization?


    Your attack power gives a direct bonus to your damage per second. So for autoshot, weapon speed doesn't matter one bit. If you have 700 attack power, which is a bonus of 50 DPS, and go from a weapon that has a delay of 2.0 to a weapon with a delay of 3.0, your attack power will change from adding 100 to each shot to 150 to each shot. After 6 seconds, it will be 300 damage either way.

    However, it used to be that Aimed Shot and Multishot didn't use the weapon's delay for how often they could fire, but used the per-shot damage. Because of this, slow crossbows were extremely overpowering next to faster bows. In patch 1.10, Blizzard introduced a change to these abilities by normalizing their weapon delay to 2.8 -- in other words, when the game decides how much damage they do, it pretends like your weapon has a delay of 2.8. This way, an Aimed Shot will not do fully twice as much damage coming from a crossbow like Bloodseeker than from a bow like Hurricane.

    So as it stands now, the biggest differences in weapon speed have been removed from the game. However, there are a few other, less significant differences. Fast weapons use ammunition faster, but they receive a slightly better bonus from the addition of a scope and will trigger Quick Shots from Improved Aspect of the Hawk more frequently. Slow weapons still technically do more damage per shot, and are probably still preferable in PvP. But weapon speed ultimately doesn't matter anywhere near as much as it once did.

    Instead, people who raid will often focus on the delays in terms of the "10 second cycle." Generally speaking, against a target you won't take aggro from and won't die any time soon, the best way to maximize damage is to fire an Aimed Shot followed by a Multi Shot every 10 seconds, and autoshot between Aimeds. 10 seconds - 3 seconds for "aiming" leaves a 7 second window, and some weapon speeds fit this space better than others, meaning you are wasting autoshot time with some weapons and not with others. See the Az Math thread for more details.


    How do I get the epic?

    The "epic" quest for Rhok'delar begins in the Molten Core, off the second-to-last boss. Majordomo Executus will always leave behind the start for the hunter or for the priest "epic" quests. Take the item you find to Felwood, in the Irontree Woods, and you will need to kill four demons all by yourself. And that means completely alone - not even your pet can help, or it messes up the quest.

    The battles are not easy, although they can be made much easier with certain potions, and can basically only be won in certain ways, mostly involving kiting.

    See this link for a walkthrough for the quest.


    What about other slots besides ranged weapon?

    For the mostpart, the best items are the ones from our class sets. There isn’t a whole lot else that competes. Rings, cloaks and neckpieces are in fairly short supply.

    Bear in mind, that's with regard to the "endgame". While you're leveling, just take whatever piece of green junk "of the monkey" or that otherwise helps your stats that you can find.


    What are the class sets?

    Beaststalker Armor is the basic set from the high end instanced dungeons like Stratholme and Blackrock Spire.
    Beastmaster armor is the upgraded version of Beaststalker, sometimes refered to as tier 0.5, or dungeon 2.
    Giantstalker Armor is the "tier 1" set from the bosses in Molten Core. While awesome items, you will NEED a raid to see any of these items, and chances are, that means you will need to be in a raiding guild.
    Dragonstalker Armor is the "tier 2" armor. This comes from even higher level raid bosses like Onyxia, Ragnaros, and the major fights in Blackwing Lair.
    Striker's Garb comes from Ahn'qiraj and is generally NOT considered to be tier 3 because it is not a complete set, only having 5 pieces. Also, Ahn'qiraj, while more difficult than Blackwing Lair, generally does not result in significantly better equipment.

    Here are the PvP sets:
    Horde officer armor
    Alliance officer armor
    Alliance Field Marshall armor
    Horde Warlord Marshall's Armor


    I'm level X and I have Y agility. Is my gear any good?

    If X isn't 60, or 29 for a battleground twink, who cares? You're just going to replace it all in the next five levels.


    Are hunters the best soloists?

    No, but they are very good. They can move from target to target with little downtime, and can track to the next target to find it faster. The misconception of a hunter being able to fight while not taking damage making them be the best soloists is an often-repeated myth. Rogues are the best soloists, and many other classes can solo as well as a hunter.

    However, a beast master hunter can level on their own extremely well. While generally not as useful in a group, beast masters are incredible soloists. I was skeptical of this until I finally specced an alt for BM.


    What is pulling and how do I do it?

    Pulling is the act of taking a creature from where it is to some other place to fight it. Usually that means one person goes off and fetches it to a spot where the rest of the group lies in wait to ambush it. If you want to know about how to pull, NuklearPower's Brian Klevinger has a decent explanation of it here.

    I will add my own caveats to his writing, though. Hunter pulling is only more effective with a slow methodical process. While technically it's a more improved method of pulling, it isn't always better because it's sometimes like using a sledge hammer to squish an ant -- your shoe would do just fine. Not only does the group need to listen to you, and stay out of harm's way, but you need to carefully lay a trap, scope the scene, bring the group back, blah blah blah. The point is it is often easier for a random warrior with a gun to pull. Hunter pulling does become important in raid zones like Molten Core, where hunters have tools and tricks that allow them to survive pulls other classes would not. (Try pulling a lava pack without Eyes of the Beast.)

    If you are asked to pull for a group, it pays to be thinking about your next pull, or even starting it while the group is still fighting. While I seldom get to pull for an instance group, in Molten Core I know the pulls and do my best to “chain pull” – bring another target to the group just as the last one dies. That isn’t something any other class can do very well, mostly because of feign death.


    Can I play a melee hunter?
    Where does melee fit in with playing the class?


    In theory, yes. In reality, no.

    Hunters are a ranged-dominant class. If you completely ignore this, that would be like a paladin that wants to deal massive damage in a raid, or a rogue that wants to tank, because hey - they have skills that let them do it, right?

    Melee is not something you should be accustomed to doing as a first choice. It's rare that running in and whacking things with an axe is the ideal strategy for you at any given time. You will always do more damage with your ranged. Past level 40 or so, melee can't even compare.

    Hunters should be prepared to melee when the circumstances arise, for example, when they can't get to ranged during PvP or in close quarters of an instance. Don't neglect your weapon skills completely. But realize that more often than not, you want to do what you can to get back to range, by Wing Clipping, Counterattacking, Feign-Trapping, Scatter Shotting, Intimidating, or whatever else you can come up with. Notice how many tools we have to get to range, though? And how many do we have for real melee damage? None.

    Raptor Strike adds damage to a swing, Mongoose Bite does pathetic damage after a dodge, Counterattack is a defensive move that isn't focused on damage, and Wing Clip is laughable as an offensive move...with one exception: if you have a weapon with a "chance on hit" effect, spam Wing Clip all you want because you might trigger that effect. HOWEVER, any weapon with one of those effects is better off in the hands of an actual melee character, so the odds of this happening aren't too high.


    What is feign-trapping?

    Feign-trapping is a way to use your crowd control effects by taking a target out of the fight for a bit. Feign death, and lay a freeze trap at your opponent's feet. It's almost impossible to do successfully with your pet attacking something because your pet will put you back in combat as soon as you feign, so put your pet on passive if you try to do this. The odds of being able to do this in solo are still somewhat stacked against you. Try doing it in PvP or in an instance group, though, and it works wonders.

    Other classes REALLY hate it when you do this to them in PvP, and have called for the nerf of this move countless times. The latest official word from Blue is that it's a perfectly legitimate tactic.


    Why do people say hunters suck?

    There are a lot of little things wrong with every class. For hunters, some are there because the class was the last to get put in the game and many facets of the game weren't designed with hunters in mind. Some are because Blizzard keeps tweaking the formulas and code used on hunter abilities. Some are bugs that have crept into the code and Blizzard hasn't or won't deal with. Some are just whines for other stupid reasons, like getting owned in a duel.

    There are some real hunter issues. You can read the official boards if you dare to sift through the muck for them. However, the most important thing is, every class is playable, and every class is fun. Don't let all the forum whiners get to you.

    The truth is, hunters are one of the most versatile classes in the game, with very good survivability, high damage capability, and a decent amount of utility. It's up to you to figure out how to bring all these things to your character, though.


    Where are some other useful sources of info for hunters?
    Good Intentions
    Petopia (top 100 pets)
    TKAsomething
    The official Blizzard hunter boards
    Official Bliz talent calculator

    Edited, Sep 20th 2006 at 10:03pm EDT by Azuarc

    Edited, Nov 3rd 2007 2:30am by Azuarc
    ____________________________
    Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
    #2 Jul 21 2005 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
    ****
    6,678 posts
    EXPLANATION OF HUNTER SKILLS

    Pet-related skills are in the pet section.

    ASPECTS
    Hunters have a series of abilities called Aspects. A hunter can have a single aspect in place at a time, and they each produce a unique effect. A hunter can switch aspects at any time.

    Aspect of the Monkey (level 4) - Increases chance to dodge by 8%. This is the defensive aspect.
    Aspect of the Hawk (level 10) - Increases the hunter's ranged attack power. This is the hunter's offensive aspect.
    Aspect of the Cheetah (level 20) - Increases the hunter's run speed by 30%, but becomes dazed when hit. Cheetah is mostly only useful in traveling due to the daze component, but it can be used carefully in combat and even PvP where kiting an opponent.
    Aspect of the Beast (level 30) - Makes the hunter untrackable. Very helpful in PvP, and nearly useless on a PvE server.
    Aspect of the Pack (level 40) - Cheetah for the group. This is of limited use since it comes at the level players get mounts, but it can let your group run through instances and other indoor areas quickly.
    Aspect of the Wild (level 46) - Increases the group's Nature Resist. This ability works like a paladin aura, and is the only real ability for specifically increasing Nature Resistance.


    TRAPS
    Hunters can place traps while out-of-combat. When an opponent crosses the trap, the trap will detonate, resulting in an effect depending on which trap is used. The traps stay in place, and invisible to anyone outside the hunter's group, for one minute or until used.

    Immolation Trap (level 16) - Causes single target damage over time. The normal damage trap for soloing.
    Freezing Trap (level 20) - Freezes an opponent for a fixed amount of time. This is a very useful ability because it can affect almost any enemy type in the game, whereas most targeted crowd control is limited that way. Helpful for PvP, pulling, or just dealing with multiple targets.
    Frost Trap (level 28) - Don't confuse this with Freeze Trap. When triggered, Frost Trap produces a huge field of ice that makes all opponents nearby run slowly. Has limited usage, but can be very helpful in group PvP or in pulling large groups. There used to be an exploit for breaking linked spawns using Frost Trap.
    Explosive Trap (level 34) - Causes AE damage to all enemies nearby when triggered. Most of the damage is instant, but there is a smaller over-time component. Hunters are not known for their AE, but when they need to, this is an ability that should not be forgotten.


    MELEE SKILLS
    Hunters have a few skills for close combat. Note that this doesn't make hunters effective at melee combat so much as it makes them not worthless at it.

    Raptor Strike (level 1) - Increases damage on the next melee hit. This is not an instant attack and only adds a flat amount to the next hit.
    Wing Clip (level 12) - For many hunters, this is the most important melee skill because it lets them get out of melee and back to ranged. Wing Clip slows the run speed of a target for 10 seconds so you can get some distance. Note that the tip says slows speed TO 50%, not BY 50%. Higher levels of the skill read smaller numbers, and if not read carefully, actually seem like a downgrade.
    Mongoose Bite (level 16) - A strange ability, Mongoose lets you deal a little extra damage immediately after you dodge an attack. It is not terribly effective or efficient, but it can make a difference in a situation where you are forced into melee.
    Disengage (level 20) - Disengage lowers your threat toward a target on a successful hit, and deals no damage. With luck, the target will then attack someone else instead. The tooltip on Disengage is not clear in what it means by removes from combat. It does not take you out of combat; only feign death and the rogue's vanish do that. It only turns your attack off so you don't accidentally get a crit after it lands and immediately retake aggro.
    Counterattack (level 30 min) - See talents. This ability works like Mongoose Bite for parries, except that it also immobilizes a target for 5 seconds.


    TRACKING
    Hunters gain the ability to see the locations of targets on their minimap. This works essentially the same way Find Minerals or Gather Herbs does, but for enemy types. Hunters eventually learn how to track every enemy type except for mechanical and creatures with no type (like insects.)

    It is important to note that only one tracking type can be active at a time, and this includes Find Minerals or Gather Herbs, or the dwarven racial skill of Treasure Finding. This can influence your choice of profession, or at least prove an aggravation.

    One particular tracking skill deserves some additional mention. Track Hidden is not a standard tracking skill. It is used to help detect stealth targets, but it does not simply pop up all the stealth targets nearby on the map. Instead, it slightly increases your stealth detection. If a hidden target is *extremely* close to you, it will show it on the map, but by that time it's probably about to attack you anyway. Track Hidden is not a highly-effective ability, but when it comes to detecting stealth rogues, every little bit helps.


    STINGS
    Stings are a class of special shots, only one of which can be on a target per hunter at a time. Stings are considered poisons and can be removed by druids, shamans, and paladins.

    Serpent Sting (level 4) - Does damage over time. A poison arrow, basically. This damage WILL break freeze traps and polymorph, so don't just fire it blindly. It also helps prevent a rogue from stealthing in PvP.
    Scorpid Sting (level 22) - Lowers a target's strength and agility. This is the melee-debilitating sting. Bosses and elites tend to be immune to this skill, and it will not stack with another hunter's Scorpid Sting. Why? We don't know. Probably a supposed balance issue. In times where you actually care to spend the mana on a sting in PvE, this is usually the sting you want to use.
    Viper Sting (level 36) - Drains mana from the target over time. While Viper Sting works very quickly, it often doesn't work quickly enough. In a PvP battle with a mage, the mage will usually have enough mana to finish the fight anyway, so it is often better to just use Serpent and kill him quickly. Against priests and other healers, this is a different story. In PvE, you will want to Viper Sting any healer you can.
    Wyvern Sting (min level 40) - See talents. Puts a target to sleep for 12 seconds, after which it has a dot effect on it larger than that of Serpent Sting.


    OTHER SHOTS
    Autoshot (level 1) - This is your version of attack for ranged. Only hunters get this, and only hunters need it. Caster classes do get an autoshoot for wands. Autoshot will continually fire arrows or bullets at your target so long as you are within range, standing still, and facing the right way.
    Arcane Shot (level 6) - Instant attack that does a fixed amount of damage. Don't think of this as big damage, but it is extra damage. Keep in mind that it deals non-physical damage, which can matter against certain targets.
    Concussive Shot (level 8) - Very short-term snare effect. It might help you get another shot or two in on an approaching target or help keep it at bay longer while you are kiting it.
    Distracting Shot (level 12) - Ranged growl. Using DS adds hate to your target to possibly get it to chase you instead. In situations where your pet is taking a beating, or in a group to peel a target off a caster, this can be a useful ability, but it doesn't see a great deal of use.
    Multishot (level 18) - Fires a free shot at your target that will also hit 2 nearby opponents. This is a big-time sheep breaker. When it is safe to use, it can also be a big addition to your damage and a big drain to your mana at the same time. Multishot ignores your weapon speed, but uses normal shot damage for how much it does. If you use multishot a lot, a slow high-damage weapon may be favorable for you.
    Aimed Shot (level 20 min) - See talents. It's a great opener for a battle due to the massive damage it deals in one blow, but isn't nearly as effective over the course of a battle.
    Tranquilizing Shot (level 60) - If you don't know what this is, you don't need it. It comes from the first boss in Molten Core, a raid instance, and is used almost exclusively to fight the second. (There is only one other place I'm aware of it having ANY usage, and that is during the "epic" quest, which requires you to get to the end of Molten Core first anyway.)


    RANGE-RELATED SKILLS
    Hunter's Mark (level 6) - Hunter's Mark does two things. First, it increases ranged attack power against that target, which is not incredibly effective, but it's cheap on mana. Second, it adds a huge bobbing red arrow over your target that says "Kill me now!" This causes a target to appear for you on the minimap, even if it is a stealthed rogue, and also lets players nearby know what you are attacking or singling out for them. When playing the role of Main Assist for a group, hunters will usually mark their targets. When pulling, hunters will often mark what they intend on pulling through a freeze trap so players *don't* hit it. Either way, it's a little anti-thematic, but has all kinds of basic utility usage. To rogues: Hunter's Mark is considered magic and can be dispelled, and does not actually prevent you from stealthing or allow anyone other than the hunter to see you. Cry more noob.
    Rapid Fire (level 26) - Allows the hunter to fire ranged attacks with 40% increased speed for 15 seconds, basically an extra 6 seconds worth of attack time if it works completely.
    Trueshot Aura (level 40 min) - This is a talent skill, and sort of like an aspect. (It can be used with an actual aspect.) If you already have 30 points in marksmanship, it's an excellent one point spend, but that's also an if. More in talent section.


    OTHER SKILLS
    Scare Beast (level 14) - Fear a beast. It doesn't really get used that much except when dueling druids or other hunters.
    Eagle Eye (level 14) - Zooms in a hunters view. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone using this skill.
    Beast Lore (level 24) - Gives information about a target beast. This ability is almost exclusively used when considering possible pets to tame, since it gives stats on the pet and states explicitly if something is tameable.
    Intimidation (level 30 min) - Activated talent that lets your pet stun a target briefly.
    Flare (level 32) - More of a PvP ability, Flare will reveal stealth targets in a particular area. There are a few places where using it on rogue NPCs can be helpful, so don't forget about it, but it's not a main row ability for sure.


    AND ONE MORE...
    Feign Death (level 30) - Feign Death is an ability I could write a novel about. Here are the important things to know about feign death:
    -Causes you to flop on the ground and be removed from all hate lists.
    -Can fail, and fails more often against higher level targets and when facing more opponents.
    -Removes you from combat, which possibly allows you to lay another trap, eat/drink, or walk away safely. You can easily return to combat before you are ready by being hit with an AE attack or aggroing something nearby, or if your pet is fighting.
    -Will not put you back into combat until you stand up. If you stay lying there until mobs finish off your pet, or if some AE-ing target goes running by and hits you with one as he passes, you will stay face down in the mud.
    -Will kill you after 6 minutes of feigning. There are gameplay and RP reasons for this. When you feign death, in theory you slow your heartrate and your breathing so that it can not be ascertained you are alive. If you do this long enough, it could kill you. More to the point, it keeps people from hiding in a spot forever, safely - while not as huge issue an in this game, this creates an ability to 'camp' things that would cause significant problems in other games, as FD often did when monks used it in Everquest.
    -While FD *does* work in PvP, players are not fooled. In fact, your opponent doesn't even lose you as a target any more. It *might* let you lay another trap, but that's about it.

    Edited, Sat Dec 31 12:32:58 2005 by Azuarc
    ____________________________
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    #3 Jul 21 2005 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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    257 posts
    Quote:
    and they do NOT outdamage rogues or mages, contrary to what someone will inevitably reply and try to contradict


    *feels like I just got called out* :P


    I'm not gonna argue this...as you are correct. A good Dagger/Backstab Rogue > Hunter as far as damage done goes.

    I haven't seen a mage yet that does more single target damage then a Hunter/Rogue (obviously AoE damage vaults mages up).




    AWESOME Guide!! :) Hopefully it'll stop some of the repetitive threads!! Only thing I would add is the "How Attack Power works" since it can be confusing...
    #4 Jul 21 2005 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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    257 posts
    Q: What does attack power do?

    Attack power (or AP) is a stat that boosts the damage of your physical attacks. The AP bonus is added to each attack based on the speed of the weapon used. The general rule is this:

    14 AP = 1 DPS

    This means that if you have 14 attack power, and a weapon with 1.0 speed, you will get +1 damage on each attack. Because the bonus is to DPS, not damage, it will scale up with the speed of your weapon. For instance:

    Bonus from 28 AP = 2.0 DPS

    1.0 speed bow: +2 damage per shot
    2.0 speed bow: +4 damage per shot
    3.0 speed bow: +6 damage per shot

    In general, you can determine your per-shot bonus from attack power using the following formula:

    Per-Shot Bonus = (Weapon Speed) * (Attack Power) / 14



    Q: What does weapon speed mean to my bow?

    There are four major areas impacted by the weapon speed of your bow. These are:

    1. Ammo Usage
    2. Aggro in PVE
    3. Scope Bonus
    4. Aimed Shot/Multi-Shot Damage

    Ammo Usage
    The faster the weapon, the more ammunition (ammo) you will use to do the same amount of damage with your auto-shot. So, in a given time period, if you have a 1.5 speed bow, you will use twice as much ammo on auto-shot as you would have with a bow with 3.0 speed. Therefore, a faster bow will cost you more money in ammo.

    Aggro in PVE
    Given two bows with equal dps, the faster bow will tend to create less mob hate than a slower bow. Aimed Shot and Multishot aside, the bows will do the same amount of damage over time, but auto-shot damage will come in bigger "chunks" (spaced further apart) with the slower bow. This is usually not a major factor but it deserves mention. A faster bow will make you less likely to steal aggro than a slower bow.

    Scope Bonus
    The damage bonus from a scope is applied per shot, so a faster bow will gain more DPS from the same scope than a slower bow. Consider two bows each having a +5 scope, being fired on auto-shot for 60 seconds:

    1.5 speed bow: 40 shots * (+5 damage) = +200 damage
    3.0 speed bow: 20 shots * (+5 damage) = +100 damage

    Aimed Shot/Multi-Shot Damage
    Aimed Shot and Multi-Shot are both based on the per-shot damage of your bow, but because Aimed Shot is mainly a one-time event and Multi-Shot has a cooldown which prevents spamming, they are comparable shots regardless of your weapon speed. Due to the nature of attack power, however, a slower weapon will average higher damage on these shots than a faster one. Let's take an example:

    Fast Bow: 30dps, 1.5 speed (average per shot: 45 damage)
    Slow Bow: 30dps, 3.0 speed (average per shot: 90 damage)

    Consider an average Multi-Shot rank 4 (+120 damage) from a player with 1000 AP using Thorium Ammo (17.5 dps).

    Weapon: Base + Ammo + Multi-Shot + (Attack Power Bonus) = Average Per Shot
    Fast Bow: 45 + (1.5*17.5) + 120 + (1.5*1000/14) = 298 damage
    Slow Bow: 90 + (3.0*17.5) + 120 + (3.0*1000/14) = 476 damage

    As you can see, the major difference is caused by the fact that attack power contributes more damage per shot to a slower bow (ammo also makes a small difference). The Slow Bow averages 45 higher in base damage per shot, but it gains 107 more damage per shot from attack power. The main conclusion to take away from this is that a slower bow will give you higher damage on Aimed Shot and Multi-Shot

    Edited, Thu Jul 21 15:42:58 2005 by sperrone
    #5 Jul 21 2005 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
    Terrorfiend
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    great post, dual wield at 20 though i believe. sorry if sperrone said it.
    #6 Jul 22 2005 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
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    179 posts
    This is really a good summary!

    But I dont agree with the pvp-piece though. I think you describe the situation a little more pesimistic then it really is. I dont agree druids are hunter killers. Sure, they can root. But it's not instant cast and therefor not "the" weapon against hunter for your certain kill. I'd rather say mages and shadow-priests are the hunter killers.
    #7 Jul 22 2005 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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    63 posts
    Yeah, dual wield is at 20... And as a note to what sperrone wrote: 1 AGI gives 2 ATP as i renember (usefull to know, if you have to choose between a +ATP armor, and a +AGI armor)
    #8 Jul 22 2005 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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    Thanks for the attack power bit, Sperrone. With all my formula-tinkering, you would think I of all people would have put something in about that. I'll pretend I was trying to keep things simple, but really I forgot.

    And yeah, DW is 20. I answer that question more often in-game related to rogues than hunters, but it comes up for every class, including the ones that don't get dual wield. =p

    Xelost - I'm not really one to talk about PvP genuinely. If you'd like to rewrite the section, I'll be more than happy to take your writing if it sounds educated. I'm going partly by what I've seen others say (and yeah can't trust the O-boards for everything) and partly on my own, limited experience.


    And thanks for the sticky, Lady Darkflame. Guess that means I better write the second half!
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    #9 Jul 22 2005 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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    OK, everything's up except talents. That will keep for another day, I hope. Skills are at the bottom of the first post. I added a couple things to the pre-existing portion of the thread, and the second post is ridiculously long with basic pet info.
    ____________________________
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    #10 Jul 22 2005 at 6:28 PM Rating: Decent
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    Good Job Azuarc!

    This will help alot of folks out!
    #11 Jul 22 2005 at 9:08 PM Rating: Decent
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    1,694 posts
    Azurac,

    Dont know if you want to go into this in your guide, but thought I'd mention it, as I dont feel like starting another thread.
    Equipment. You mentioned stats we should look for, but my question is about Mail.

    We can use at 40, but how much does this talent cost? Main question is... when does it become necessary? I am sure its what you can afford/loot/dropped, ect...

    But whats common? Or recomended? I am far from 40, however I like to look for good deals in advance at the AH, then send to my 'lock for the enchants. The cost of new gear at 40 along with the mount could be tough, so I am sure like most people the Mount $$$ comes first... what do you suggest? Probably wear the best we can afford, which is what I do.
    #12 Jul 24 2005 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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    6,678 posts
    Truthseeker, Mail is just an ordinary skill you train, just like you trained Parry in the early going. It never truly becomes necessary -- you can wear cloth armor if you want. In fact, some hunters stay with mostly leather since rogue gear is also decent hunter gear, and there isn't an abundance of good hunter mail armor out there other than the class sets.

    I wouldn't worry about getting mail armor in advance. Maybe when you're around 35 you can start thinking about setting aside decent agi mail you get, but other than that I wouldn't be overly concerned with it.
    ____________________________
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    #13 Jul 24 2005 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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    Thank you Sir Azuarc Scholar! *salutes*

    I have been noticing that some of the leather is better stat wise for us.... anyways, TY for the answer! Just from lookin ahead, I dont think I would want mail that has higher DEF by 50, for a decrease in AGI/STAM for several points... good guide.
    #14 Jul 26 2005 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
    A note on breaking unlinked mobs (and additional info on pulling). I didn't see much about this, so hope I'm not being too redundant.

    First off, the biggest problem with groups is they think of pulling as bringing a mob from it's spawn point (point A) to the group (point B) to engage combat. Which is totally wrong.

    A hunter's job as a puller is bringing the smallest number of mobs from their spawn point (point A) to themselves (point B) and open the option to bring it to a location that is "safe" for the party to engage them (point C). As well as making sure that the correct targets are attacked, sapped or polymorphed. I will go into that once I'm done explaining the breaking unlinked mobs bit. As most of which is covered in the pulling link provided above.

    Feign death is a hunter's most powerful pulling technique. Many complain that FD fails every time they really need it. Which is sometimes true, but I've found that it works in the majority of cases. The purpose of FD is to completely disengage the hunter from combat and will reset mobs that are attacking you, IF your party is not standing 2 feet behind you like a drooling pack of hyenas.

    The trick to making groups of mobs manageable solely by the hunter is by the use of freeze traps and FD. If you pull 1 mob and another decides to come along. 1 should run into your freeze trap and the second will start beating on you. Now this is where you FD. You drop too the ground, the mob is satisfied that you're dead and runs back to it's rather boring life of standing around staring at a wall.

    But what do we have here. 1 frozen mob, separated from it's companion, ripe for slaughter. Thus you have just turned 2 or more mobs into 1 manageable mob for your pack of drooling hyenas to kill.

    This does not always work, sometimes mobs are linked and one of two things will happen... A. The second mob will come running as soon as your hyenas start gnashing away at the first mob. B. The second mob will stay put and you'll get nasty messages from GMs about using an exploit to break linked mobs. However from what I understand, there aren't a whole lot of truly "linked" mobs in the game. The aforementioned exploit was used in MC and has hence been fixed in a patch.

    <on soapbox>

    To continue with my earlier statements.

    I mentioned delegating targets to rogues and mages for sap/polymorph. What, how, who? There is a simple command in WoW that allows a party member to auto-target another member's target. This is /assist. 99% of the time, I see this used to find your tank's target more easily that tabbing through several targets to see which one he's hitting. If a hunter (or rogue in situations where a hunter cannot get LOS) simply selects a target and tells a party member to /assist. They will now be targeting the appropriate mob for their method of CC or attacking.

    Ok so, I pull, FD fails and now there are 3-4 mobs whacking away at me. I hope my party comes to save my behind. Well, no you don't. That would turn a bad situation into a worse one. If you as a hunter are looking for your party to back you up during a bad pull, you need to get that out of your head. Your job as a hunter is to take one for the team, who after you die will still be safely outside the aggro range of the mobs. They can then rez you and you can get back to doing what it is you do best. The alternative is a wipe in most cases. Which do you think they'd prefer?

    Hey guys, there's a little red dot coming at us on my radar. Uh, guys... patrol! Guys, move back... do you hear me? This is a common situation I see. Next thing you know, the hunter is FD in the corner and the party wipes and you hop back up and laugh. Well, it's rude to laugh.

    Hunters are usually on the outside looking in AND can "see" around corners and other obstacles. They are in a very good position to direct the flow of battle and watch for patrols. Er, not that you should be worrying about patrols if those hyenas would stay in "safe" areas.

    One more things to get off my chest before I conclude my rant.

    As quoted by Blizz reps. "Hunters are a High-DPS class." This is usually followed by "ROFL." Seems most agree, hunters are useless and add a little DPS here and there. They are nothing but filler when you can't find a rogue or mage. The truth behind this. A. Most hunters can't do their job. B. They can't or don't know how, because no one ever let them.

    As far as us being a "High-DPS class." We absolutely are. I've been running damagemeters for about a month now and aside from a few rogues and places where mages can unload the aoe. I've been at the top of the list. Mind you, I'm not sure what it is, but I'm also the top damage dealing hunter in my guild.

    Wait wait wait you lying hunter POS. My rogue's damagemeter shows me at 17%, followed by a mage at 16.5% and you're down there at 13.5%. Welcome to the world of damagemeters. To properly display party damage with a hunter (w/o using dmsync stuff) is to uncheck show party damage only. Once that's done, scroll down a bit just above your healers and you'll see "<insert your pet's name here>" 4.5%. Oh look, me + my pet = 18% total damage. So this is a lesson to you pet-less hunters out there.

    But my pet just dies all the time in high level instances... Er, so... what, your pet is now the main tank for your party? Why is your pet getting hit at all? Well, when you see a mob on a healer or mage and you use distracting shot and your pet's taunt to remedy the situation, yes your pet may die. However, your pet is like a rogue, but even better. It only doles out about 40-60dps. Hardly anything that will grab aggro from a warrior doing their tank thing. The only thing that ever beats on my pet is aoe, but when you see it getting a little roughed up, pull it back, slap a "mend pet" on it and send it back in. Or just pull it back for the rest of the fight to keep your dps up.

    Lastly, I apologize for referring to party members as "hyenas." I love you all and keep me alive. But you've got to stop with the "Get back you silly hunter, pulls are for warriors."

    </on soapbox>
    #15 Jul 26 2005 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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    Most instance creatures are linked, particularly in later dungeons. You might be able to pull this trick off in the Stockades, but not in Blackrock Depths or Maraudon. The only way you can split THOSE is with the old Frost Trap exploit. Yes, it worked; yes, I've done it; but it's not only bad form but also a bit of a PITA to do.


    Quote:
    Hunters are usually on the outside looking in AND can "see" around corners and other obstacles. They are in a very good position to direct the flow of battle and watch for patrols. Er, not that you should be worrying about patrols if those hyenas would stay in "safe" areas.


    Heh, too true. But it's not often I get a group that will actually listen to me, sadly. I like to think I'm being useful giving them tracking readouts, but I think most of the time nobody's listening. (Or at least they never acknowledge it.)


    You wrote:
    As far as us being a "High-DPS class." We absolutely are. I've been running damagemeters for about a month now and aside from a few rogues and places where mages can unload the aoe. I've been at the top of the list. Mind you, I'm not sure what it is, but I'm also the top damage dealing hunter in my guild.


    Regarding that I already wrote:
    and they do NOT outdamage rogues or mages, contrary to what someone will inevitably reply and try to contradict. Damage meters don't prove anything, and neither do poorly-equipped rogues or clueless mages.


    See, here's the thing about damage meters:
    1) If you're out of range of the person doing the parsing, you won't get 100% of your damage showing. Particularly in the case of hunters, who tend to stand further removed than other classes consistently, a hunter parsing will miss the rogues and a melee parsing will miss the hunters. In fact, a hunter parsing will often miss the other hunters too.
    2) Damage meters do not reflect other contributions to the group. It's not fair to compare me to a mage in a situation where the mage has to do a lot of polymorphing. That eats up battle time he would have spent nuking. Likewise, it's not fair to look at how I do on damage meters when I'm pulling, (say, for MC,) because I will spend the starts of battle incapacitated or possibly even dead.
    3) The person parsing will always be more fixated on doing damage. If I get into a random Stratholme group, I don't assume somebody is running a damage parser. I'm not fixated on being #1 on that list. But the person who is parsing is. That means they will be overly risky in doing damage to the extent of possibly taking aggro, they will be focused and intent on doing damage all the time to every creature, they will be worried to the utmost about efficiency. Whereas I just assist, shoot, press Arcane and sometimes Multi or Rapid Fire or situationally send my pet. I play the way I consider to be optimal when you're not on a perma-adrenaline rush.
    4) Damage meters do not reflect innate advantages certain players have, such as better gear. I have an epic bow and a number of pieces from MC. If you put me in a group with a bunch of people that just got to 60, I would outclass the rogues and mages easily. If you put me in a guild group, I wouldn't enjoy that advantage, and I'd be at a disadvantage because my talent build is largely survival, which does not really contribute to my damage output.
    5) I don't really have a fifth point, but I wanted to pretend like I did because a five-point list seems much more impressive than a four-point list.


    I'm not arguing the majority of your post, though it might seem like it. I just wanted to dispute those two points.
    ____________________________
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    #16 Jul 26 2005 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
    On breaking non linked mobs...

    Quote:
    The only way you can split THOSE is with the old Frost Trap exploit. Yes, it worked; yes, I've done it; but it's not only bad form but also a bit of a PITA to do.


    Edit: Ok, you say "bad form" as in, it really is an "exploit"/"cheating." Now if I go out and try and test this am I going to have a GM crawling all over me in 5 minutes? Or might I actually find a viable way to pull this off "legally?"

    Frankly, I've had little chance to test this in a real world situation. Partly because it was just recently explained to me by a hunter from one of those old crusty super elitist guilds all walking around in purple stuff. Maybe he didn't explain it clearly enough or was just jerking my chain. Also because it's hard to actually find a group that'll let you "learn" how to do what you're supposed to be doing when their way "works." I'll pop another post in when I've truly had a chance to play with this concept for a while. I apologize for any inaccuracy or confusion on my part. I was merely trying to pass on the knowledge of my "elders."

    Quote:
    See, here's the thing about damage meters:
    1) If you're out of range of the person doing the parsing...
    ...I did because a five-point list seems much more impressive than a four-point list.


    My comments on the damage meters weren't as ill tested.

    1. I've compared my damagemeters to my rogue buddy (who *always* out damages/dps's me no mater what the situation) and we both have similar figures.
    2. Yes I agree that mages do lose dps when using other abilities. But I've been in groups where there's not much polymorphing to be done (i.e. a baron run/slaughter by a bunch of pissed off guildies who wiped on Maggie again) and they sometimes do pull out ahead. It's kinda half and half in my experience. Maybe the mages I'm around just suck : / Also, I know about the MC pulling. I had a 7g and change repair bill at the bot, and a very low dm score.
    3. I understand that people get all hyped up about being #1 on the list and on many occasions change their play style to bump themselves up. I've noticed this with one warrior in particular who prefers to let mages do the tanking while he's making a mess of the mobs. I frankly haven't changed my play style since I've gotten damagemeters and was very surprised to see myself in the top 3-4 not counting my pet the first time I ran it. I can't say I've never accidentally popped a sheep or sap with an ill advised multishot while trying to drop a single mob faster, but it's very very rare these days.
    4. I don't run with many pick-up groups anymore, if I can help it. So most of the people I'm "competing" with have similar gear and sometimes better gear than myself. However myself and pretty much our entire group was out damaged by a GS wearing hunter with the bow of the ancient whoop-... So I agree with point totally. Just not in my particular case.
    5. A 5 point list does seem a little better ; )

    I guess my real point in all of this falls along the lines of what you said. Hunters are a "popular" class played by a lot of people who wont take the time to be good at it... and there are of course the ones who go on and on about how cool it would be to have typhoon or (insert epic melee weapon name here) and they would "so roll on it."

    I'd like to see more "good" hunters out there. Ones that know how to pull "correctly" and don't waste healers' time hanging out within certain mobs' aoe range. We're a good class and I personally feel like a benefit more than a hinderance to the majority of groups I'm in. I'm just not happy being a second class, er, class that ends up walking around IF saying "LF guild for MC runs, have tranq shot" because it's all we're worth to them. Er, not that the above scenario is at all likely, but you get my point.

    I think my train of though derailed...

    Edit: Ok, it came back. I'm not intending to argue with anyone about what they feel is "right" or "wrong." I'm happy that I was treated with a response to my post. I've been scouring the internet for the last week looking for answers to many unanswered questions about hunters and the role they play. Any information I can find, even if contradictory to other things I hear is all valuable to me and my intended self improvement. Thanks ; )

    Edited, Tue Jul 26 14:05:51 2005 by Feilina

    Edited, Tue Jul 26 14:12:16 2005 by Feilina
    #17 Jul 26 2005 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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    No, there won't be a GM out to bust you in 5 minutes. In fact, I haven't tried it in a while, not since I came back from playing priest for several months, and I think it may have been patched to no longer work, but if you want to try it, here's how it goes...

    Find a couple linked mobs. The entrance to an instance somewhere usually works. Stand just out of aggro range and lay a FROST trap. Make sure you have plenty of running room behind the frost trap. Then pull the nearest target with a concussive shot, and run slightly past the trap. As soon as it triggers, everything will slow down, but your target should have a head start. When the closest angry add reaches the near edge of the frost radius, feign. Everything will turn around and run back through the frost trap. Your target will start sprinting as soon as he's out of the frost trap. Stand up just as he returns to spawn point and he might run after you solo, or quickly fire a shot and hope the others are still leashing at that point. If he runs out of their assist radius before they come out of evade mode, they will not aid him.

    Quote:
    Frankly, I've had little chance to test this in a real world situation....Also because it's hard to actually find a group that'll let you "learn" how to do what you're supposed to be doing when their way "works." I'll pop another post in when I've truly had a chance to play with this concept for a while. I apologize for any inaccuracy or confusion on my part.


    This is actually one of the reasons groups don't like hunters to pull.
    "Hunters don't pull."
    "OK, let's let the hunter pull, now that he's level 50, in his fourth or fifth instance group ever, and we all know the game mechanics by now."
    "Stupid hunter, how can you be such a noob? Why did we let the hunter pull again?"

    If I came off as cantankerous (sp), I apologize. Anything that helps each other know the class better is welcome in my eyes.
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    #18 Jul 26 2005 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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    Alright. Version 1.6.0 of the FAQ is done. Please post any other questions that need to be added.

    I'm going to edit this post periodically to add things to the thread that I think of while writing, and then forget, so I can not forget them and take care of them all at once. (Write an explanation if you like, and you beat me to the punch.)



    Where do I learn Aimed Shot rank 1?
    How do I make the transition to mail armor at level 40, especially while trying to farm for a mount?
    What is autocasting/how do I control pet abilities?
    What are the formulas that apply to hunters? (agi to crit, calculating DPS, etc.)

    Edited, Sat Oct 8 10:09:54 2005 by Azuarc
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    #19 Jul 27 2005 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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    Your guide mentions pet control but doesn't mention how to recall an attack. I've had many instances when I wished I could stop the pet from attacking especially when he's in hot pursuit of a target that's elected to run away in fear. This usually results in my fighting added mobs. I've tried several things to stop a pet attack but haven't found the key. Any insights on this greatly appreciated.
    #20 Jul 27 2005 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
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    Hit pet follow.
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    #21 Jul 28 2005 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent
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    Kay Azuarc gets an excellent rating and is now added to the list. Big thumbs up for making this thread. I'll read it just for something to do as I'm at werk and bored.

    Great work on the thread. : )
    #22 Aug 04 2005 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
    Great Thread...very helpful...but needs to be updated now due to the new patch and talent trees
    #23 Aug 05 2005 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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    Indeed. However, I'm not going to make any changes until the patch actually hits and players have time to observe it. I need my own experience with the new stuff, and I want to read other players' feedback as well. Until then, I'm keeping the 1.6 FAQ in.

    Edited, Fri Aug 5 01:11:45 2005 by Azuarc
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    #24 Aug 10 2005 at 9:58 PM Rating: Default
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    Dunno if this is mentioned, but

    Azuarc wrote:
    Multishot is an instant attack that ignores your weapon speed


    It's actually not :(

    Sure, it's an extra shot, but not instant as I always get "You must be standing still" when I run and use it. Only shots I've been able to fire while running were Stings and Arcane/Conc.
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    #25 Aug 11 2005 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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    ack, did I write that? I wouldn't call multi-shot instant for other reasons too. In defense against your argument, feign death I would describe as instant, and that can't be done on the run either. However, multi takes a moment longer to shoot than, say, arcane, and resets the weapon timer. Will edit to correct...
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    #26 Aug 13 2005 at 9:10 PM Rating: Default
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    True, by 'instant' I meant 'on the go' :)
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