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MMO Christian Ministy (was forum=10) (was forum=28)Follow
I'm no big fan of any organized religion, but I do have to say it's amusing to me how the same people who mouth off at the "jesus freaks" are often the same ones who write long irritating drivels about how people should stop using Windows and switch to Linux. No offense.
VawnLakshmi wrote:
You know if the exact same post was made but instead of it being about Christians that play MMOs having a place to talk, it was about people who like Anime or football fans or almost anything else, there would not have been this backlash.
I don't know what makes your average MMO player so against the idea of Christianity. No one is "invading" you with this post. It was a simple invite to those who may be interesed. Believe it or not there are religious people who play FFXI and other MMOs, myself included.
On the rare occassion God, Jesus or Christianity is brought up on these forums the forum goes into some weird panic. Does anyone else notice this? No other topic gets this response - you could mention anything else in the world and it would slide right on by, but the mention of religion appears to throw people into a panic, even though I know no one will admit it.
Anyway, take that for what you will. I know I am in the minority on this, but there are some things more important than aggreeing with the MMO community who want to believe they have all the answers to the universe.
I don't know what makes your average MMO player so against the idea of Christianity. No one is "invading" you with this post. It was a simple invite to those who may be interesed. Believe it or not there are religious people who play FFXI and other MMOs, myself included.
On the rare occassion God, Jesus or Christianity is brought up on these forums the forum goes into some weird panic. Does anyone else notice this? No other topic gets this response - you could mention anything else in the world and it would slide right on by, but the mention of religion appears to throw people into a panic, even though I know no one will admit it.
Anyway, take that for what you will. I know I am in the minority on this, but there are some things more important than aggreeing with the MMO community who want to believe they have all the answers to the universe.
You're not in the minority of people who can think for themselves.
If you can think for yourself, (not you Vawn), you have no worries or reason to feel threatened by any topic that is posted.
On the other hand, if you've always just believed whatever it is that you see on CNN or your parents tell you or you heard from some teacher, without deciding for yourself whether it actually made sense, well, I don't even want to talk to you.
I'm not a big converter/convertee, but people who are passionate about something would naturally want to share that passion with others. Whatever it may be about. That just makes common sense.
Please don't say you are opened minded and then go on some mini-tirade about how Christianity/Islam/Judaism is the worst thing since sliced-bread. Please actually go study some introductory math, english and hopefully a little philosophy before you open your mouth again.
Carbuncle
It's not an ignorant stereotype, bf, evangelizing is a basic part of Christian belief.
It's right in the bible!
You're trying to tell me that preaching isn't a basic tenet of Christianity? Have you ever bothered listening to any of your pastor's or reverend's sermons?
It's right in the bible!
The Bible wrote:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, - Matthew 28:19
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:15-16
and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. - Luke 24:47
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:15-16
and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. - Luke 24:47
You're trying to tell me that preaching isn't a basic tenet of Christianity? Have you ever bothered listening to any of your pastor's or reverend's sermons?
Please, quote where I singled out that no christian preaches nor should they.
I think I made it quite obvious I was stating that all of the non religious people were stating all these random "facts" about christianity. So please, continue on your quest to make me understand why you bothered rebutting anything I said.
*edit* Christians love food too! In the bible Jesus fed many off of few! Oh wait, if I quote a random passage here...does that mean you actually said something about food? No...exactly, please read.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 11:07pm by blastfurnace
I think I made it quite obvious I was stating that all of the non religious people were stating all these random "facts" about christianity. So please, continue on your quest to make me understand why you bothered rebutting anything I said.
*edit* Christians love food too! In the bible Jesus fed many off of few! Oh wait, if I quote a random passage here...does that mean you actually said something about food? No...exactly, please read.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 11:07pm by blastfurnace
As always, if there is an opinion to be had about ANYTHING in this world, people will always take sides on it and start pointing out how their opinion is the correct one.
Guess what?
Nobody can be correct about everything all the time. Accept this, and move on, some of us already did.
/thread
Guess what?
Nobody can be correct about everything all the time. Accept this, and move on, some of us already did.
/thread
bsphil wrote:
blastfurnace wrote:
Are people really this petrified of religion? I mean, yea...I get it, most of you spazzing aren't religious. But the mere mention of the word christian really riles you up this much? I'm sure there's a pill somewhere you can take, maybe a precription or what not.
I dunno, I guess can be summed up just as easily by: Overeact much?
I dunno, I guess can be summed up just as easily by: Overeact much?
Maybe not petrified, just abhorrent. The fact that a majority of the citizens in a first-world country still believe in a god without an iota of sound, verifiable evidence (no, the bible doesn't count as evidence) is alone pathetic enough.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 1:26pm by bsphil
Perhaps you've never really truly read what the definition of faith is, eh?
Faith = believing without evidence.
Not all of us are robots that follow an exact recipe.
Carbuncle
Quote:
Oh yes! Not today, not on "Talk Like a Pirate Day". The Pastafarian will not be want this and will defend the true faith in the name in the name of FSM. Corsairs FTW!
Quote:
argh, may the all mighty noodley one bless ye and touch ye wit' 'is great noodley appendages.
and please, honor this, The Day of Internationally Talking like pirates.
and please, honor this, The Day of Internationally Talking like pirates.
Testify! This be the most holiest of days, yar!
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 11:10pm by PriestoftheVoid
OmegaTyrant wrote:
As always, if there is an opinion to be had about ANYTHING in this world, people will always take sides on it and start pointing out how their opinion is the correct one.
Guess what?
Nobody can be correct about everything all the time. Accept this, and move on, some of us already did.
/thread
Guess what?
Nobody can be correct about everything all the time. Accept this, and move on, some of us already did.
/thread
Not so much of this has been about opinion as it has been about...
"Oh you're religious, I'm not! STFU and don't post or mention religious words near me, I'll get infected!"
Differing opinions is one thing, spastic overreaction to 1 post is another. I'm christian and have atheist friends, agnostic friends and who knows what other beliefs.
But one thing I can say is that when any topic of discussion comes up like this, I don't pretend to be an expert on their beliefs and rebut them, nor try to convert them.
TheBarrister wrote:
I'm not a big converter/convertee, but people who are passionate about something would naturally want to share that passion with others. Whatever it may be about. That just makes common sense.
Show of hands: Anyone out there tried to convince someone to try FFXI? (aka "convert them")
I submit that there's nothing wrong with attemting to share your beliefs with another person, just so long as you know how to take "I'm not interested" as an answer and stop.
"You should play FFXI"
"Maybe"
"But it's fun! You can level any job you like!"
"I'll think about it"
"Seriously, here's a buddy pass!"
"Ok, leave me alone"
"You aren't going to get on and level with me?"
"NO, GO AWAY!"
"You should be a Christian"
"Maybe"
"But it's fun! You can get into heaven when you die!"
"I'll think about it"
"Seriously, here's a bible!"
"Ok, leave me alone"
"You aren't going to go to church with me?"
"NO, GO AWAY!"
If you like something, share it. If you don't want to hear it, tell them no. If someone tells you no, leave them alone and move on. It's all pretty cut and dry. I really don't see why so many people are so adamantly opposed to the very IDEA of expressing your own interests to someone else. Surely everyone who has posted has tried at some point in their life to get someone else to play FFXI, or watch some TV show they find interesting, or listen to some band they like, or even try a certain type of sandwich or pastry that they thought was a constant tastebud ******.
I like pastrami on rye, with sauteed onions, spicy brown mustard, horseradish, and a melted slice of provolone cheese on top. I apologize if anyone is offended, but I think that if you haven't tried one, you really should.
Well, this thread is about Christian proselytizing. Sorry for assuming you wanted to discuss the topic.
To make it up to you, here are some of my favorite Bible verses:
If you don't believe these things, you are a bad Christian, but possibly a good person. Personally, I'd prefer the latter, but that's your choice to make.
To make it up to you, here are some of my favorite Bible verses:
Yes, really, the Bible wrote:
Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Genesis 19:5-8 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so
that we can have sex with them."
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Ephesians 5:21-27 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.
1 Timothy 2:12-15 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Genesis 19:5-8 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so
that we can have sex with them."
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Ephesians 5:21-27 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.
1 Timothy 2:12-15 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
If you don't believe these things, you are a bad Christian, but possibly a good person. Personally, I'd prefer the latter, but that's your choice to make.
I think that's the prob w/this thread Mik. I agree with you 100%. The problem is...the OP didn't push anything on anyone, yet a volley of "Don't push your religion on me!" posts came flooding in followed by many "Your religion is all about this" posts.
I completely understand someone saying "Ok, thanks not interested".
But when you say "Hey I'm a christian, go here if you're interested" and people follow quickly with "Zomg!!!!! Leave me alone and take your beliefs to hell where they belong!!! Yay science!" It's pretty uncalled for.
Granted, I'm being the king of exaggeration atm, but really..that's what half the posts have been comparable to.
I completely understand someone saying "Ok, thanks not interested".
But when you say "Hey I'm a christian, go here if you're interested" and people follow quickly with "Zomg!!!!! Leave me alone and take your beliefs to hell where they belong!!! Yay science!" It's pretty uncalled for.
Granted, I'm being the king of exaggeration atm, but really..that's what half the posts have been comparable to.
Quote:
The fact that a majority of the citizens in a first-world country still believe in a god without an iota of sound, verifiable evidence (no, the bible doesn't count as evidence) is alone pathetic enough.
I believe in lots of things without sound, verifiable proof.
I believe people who say they love me really do. I believe people are remorseful when they say they're sorry. I believe the neighbor across the street watches every last thing I do.
But these are emotional statements, and maybe so is Faith (the so-called "God Spot" in the brain).
But I prefer this to believing that we all boil down to mathematical equations and chemical formula, evolved from static electricity and cosmic dust, and everything you ever think and feel can be boiled down into nice biochemical reactions which external stimuli trick you into. Too bad Morpheus didn't have a pill for that.
It's marvelously sadistic of whoever or whatever created this universe that the closest known potentially habitable planet other than our own is far enough away that we may never know if other sentient beings exist. And yet we'll never stop looking at the stars and wondering.
Neither dogma is going to explain where we came from and why we're here, but all Science does is tell me I'm an evolved Amoeba, and if my life isn't recorded in a history book, then that's all I'll ever amount to. Living, breathing, consuming, and procreating, until I no longer exist, and my offspring will do the same, until WE no longer exist.
Pardon me, but ***** that.
TheBarrister wrote:
Faith = believing without evidence.
Not all of us are robots that follow an exact recipe.
Not all of us are robots that follow an exact recipe.
Why would you ever believe anything for no reason? That doesn't make any sense.
I don't get the robot part.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 10:25pm by bsphil
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
blastfurnace wrote:
OmegaTyrant wrote:
As always, if there is an opinion to be had about ANYTHING in this world, people will always take sides on it and start pointing out how their opinion is the correct one.
Guess what?
Nobody can be correct about everything all the time. Accept this, and move on, some of us already did.
/thread
Guess what?
Nobody can be correct about everything all the time. Accept this, and move on, some of us already did.
/thread
Not so much of this has been about opinion as it has been about...
"Oh you're religious, I'm not! STFU and don't post or mention religious words near me, I'll get infected!"
Differing opinions is one thing, spastic overreaction to 1 post is another. I'm christian and have atheist friends, agnostic friends and who knows what other beliefs.
But one thing I can say is that when any topic of discussion comes up like this, I don't pretend to be an expert on their beliefs and rebut them, nor try to convert them.
There, I bolded it for you, the example and explanation you provided are based on an opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that we are all wrong most of the time.
Actually my comment was more based on observation than opinion. =P
Turnerbrown wrote:
Quote:
The fact that a majority of the citizens in a first-world country still believe in a god without an iota of sound, verifiable evidence (no, the bible doesn't count as evidence) is alone pathetic enough.
I believe in lots of things without sound, verifiable proof.
I believe people who say they love me really do. I believe people are remorseful when they say they're sorry. I believe the neighbor across the street watches every last thing I do.
But these are emotional statements, and maybe so is Faith (the so-called "God Spot" in the brain).
But I prefer this to believing that we all boil down to mathematical equations and chemical formula, evolved from static electricity and cosmic dust, and everything you ever think and feel can be boiled down into nice biochemical reactions which external stimuli trick you into. Too bad Morpheus didn't have a pill for that.
It's marvelously sadistic of whoever or whatever created this universe that the closest known potentially habitable planet other than our own is far enough away that we may never know if other sentient beings exist. And yet we'll never stop looking at the stars and wondering.
Neither dogma is going to explain where we came from and why we're here, but all Science does is tell me I'm an evolved Amoeba, and if my life isn't recorded in a history book, then that's all I'll ever amount to. Living, breathing, consuming, and procreating, until I no longer exist, and my offspring will do the same, until WE no longer exist.
Pardon me, but ***** that.
So, you're basically saying you have faith because the alternative really seems very unattractive to you? This, people, is what is called an inconvenient truth.
Turnerbrown wrote:
I believe in lots of things without sound, verifiable proof.
I believe people who say they love me really do. I believe people are remorseful when they say they're sorry. I believe the neighbor across the street watches every last thing I do.
I believe people who say they love me really do. I believe people are remorseful when they say they're sorry. I believe the neighbor across the street watches every last thing I do.
Do really have nothing to back up these claims at all? The people you think love you have never done anything to give you that impression? The people who you think are sorry haven't tried to make things up to you? OK, the neighbor thing might just be that you're a paranoid, but if you've seen him peeking through his shades at you, that would be evidence of your "creepy-neighbor" hypothesis.
I wouldn't call all that science, but you have more reason to believe these things than a thousands-year-old book's say-so.
Quote:
But I prefer this to believing that we all boil down to mathematical equations and chemical formula, evolved from static electricity and cosmic dust, and everything you ever think and feel can be boiled down into nice biochemical reactions which external stimuli trick you into. Too bad Morpheus didn't have a pill for that.
It's not science's goal to make you feel special, it's science's goal to gather and analyze evidence, then create models that best account for that evidence.
Quote:
Neither dogma is going to explain where we came from and why we're here, but all Science does is tell me I'm an evolved Amoeba, and if my life isn't recorded in a history book, then that's all I'll ever amount to. Living, breathing, consuming, and procreating, until I no longer exist, and my offspring will do the same, until WE no longer exist.
Pardon me, but ***** that.
Pardon me, but ***** that.
So you believe in fairy tales because you can't stand the idea that you're just a normal creature like any other, and not a special divine soul who is very, very important? Sorry, but ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
blastfurnace wrote:
Actually my comment was more based on observation than opinion. =P
Got any opinion on the Bible verses I dug up for you?
Maybe you're one of those Christians who doesn't believe in the bible?
I'm actually a fan of the Universal Unitarians, believe it or not, but they're not Christians.
EDIT: Oh, and I'm done with this topic. Believe what you will, and live well. blastfurnace's contention that believing that Christians believe in the bible is equivalent to believing in racist stereotypes set me off. I'm not sorry, though. If I've offended you, cry moar.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 10:51pm by MrSenethSomed
I think one of the funnier things about this topic...is how many people who don't believe vehemently try to convince you why you shouldn't.
So um, why do you care what my beliefs are? If mine are right...when we die, I'll go to heaven and live all happy like forever in eternal bliss. If you're right...death is the end....so you want me to look forward to the end of all things? Thanks for nothing. =P
But seriously...as stated numerous times, the OP wasn't preaching, 1/2 the religious peeps here haven't preached, yet every opposed post is preaching why we shouldn't believe.
So who preaches more...christians or non believers? >,> Is this were I say don't push your beliefs on me?
So um, why do you care what my beliefs are? If mine are right...when we die, I'll go to heaven and live all happy like forever in eternal bliss. If you're right...death is the end....so you want me to look forward to the end of all things? Thanks for nothing. =P
But seriously...as stated numerous times, the OP wasn't preaching, 1/2 the religious peeps here haven't preached, yet every opposed post is preaching why we shouldn't believe.
So who preaches more...christians or non believers? >,> Is this were I say don't push your beliefs on me?
Mr SS no, I don't have any opinion on verses I've read numerous times. I question half your posts here if not all anyway. You seem to be just randomly sputing off about what you want to talk about as opposed to directly responding to what you're reading.
I have no idea what to say to any of your responses to me as they haven't had anything to do with anything I've said. But thanks for putting me on a pedestal of your attention I guess...
I have no idea what to say to any of your responses to me as they haven't had anything to do with anything I've said. But thanks for putting me on a pedestal of your attention I guess...
Turnerbrown wrote:
Neither dogma is going to explain where we came from and why we're here, but all Science does is tell me I'm an evolved Amoeba, and if my life isn't recorded in a history book, then that's all I'll ever amount to. Living, breathing, consuming, and procreating, until I no longer exist, and my offspring will do the same, until WE no longer exist.
Pardon me, but ***** that.
Pardon me, but ***** that.
blastfurnace wrote:
So um, why do you care what my beliefs are? If mine are right...when we die, I'll go to heaven and live all happy like forever in eternal bliss. If you're right...death is the end....so you want me to look forward to the end of all things? Thanks for nothing.
So you'd rather persist in the state of denial? There is absolutely no evidence of an afterlife. Don't spend your life waiting for the next, because when you die as most people do, that's it. I can not in any good conscience approve of ANY person or organization who tells you otherwise, as I simply feel bad for the people who go their entire lives believing that. I don't want you or anyone to look forward to the end of all things, I want you to see the end and appreciate the PRESENT.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 10:54pm by bsphil
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
blastfurnace wrote:
So um, why do you care what my beliefs are? If mine are right...when we die, I'll go to heaven and live all happy like forever in eternal bliss. If you're right...death is the end....so you want me to look forward to the end of all things? Thanks for nothing. =P
This is the kind of thought train that people really shouldn't follow, ever. If you consider this to be the only alternative to your faith, you are simply lying to yourself. In the end you believe because you are too scared of being wrong. People should have faith independently of what the end reward will be. So, what if there is nothing in the end? Simply experiencing life and doing good unto others should be enough of a reward, even if you are not even remembered by the ones who are left behind.
Edited because, I forgot, in the end, it's all about the reward, right? Damn NM drops...
Edited, Sep 20th 2008 12:55am by OmegaTyrant
OmegaTyrant wrote:
blastfurnace wrote:
So um, why do you care what my beliefs are? If mine are right...when we die, I'll go to heaven and live all happy like forever in eternal bliss. If you're right...death is the end....so you want me to look forward to the end of all things? Thanks for nothing. =P
This is the kind of thought train that people really shouldn't follow, ever. If you consider this to be the only alternative to your faith, you are simply lying to yourself. In the end you believe because you are too scared of being wrong. People should have faith independently of what the end reward will be. So, what if there is nothing in the end? Simply experiencing life and doing good unto others should be enough of a reward, even if you are not even remembered by the ones who are left behind.
Um point being, not pushing my beliefs on you...why push on me? Don't read more into something than there is to be read. If I believe I have a better place to go when I die, why convince me not?
By the way, have you ever really thought about how ridiculous eternity sounds? So you enjoy the first 100 years, what about the next 1,000 years? What about the next million years? What about the next trillion years? Then after the first trillion years, you realize you've only spent an infinitesimally small fraction of time of eternity, and you have trillions upon trillions of further years to go.
To further put forth a sense of urgency, you are never guaranteed a tomorrow. While in all likelihood you will live to see another day, there are no guarantees. Cars crash, buildings catch fire, people commit crimes, things happen. You have no time to lose to enjoy life.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 11:02pm by bsphil
blastfurnace wrote:
If I believe I have a better place to go when I die, why convince me not?
I wrote:
I don't want you or anyone to look forward to the end of all things, I want you to see the end and appreciate the PRESENT.
To further put forth a sense of urgency, you are never guaranteed a tomorrow. While in all likelihood you will live to see another day, there are no guarantees. Cars crash, buildings catch fire, people commit crimes, things happen. You have no time to lose to enjoy life.
Edited, Sep 19th 2008 11:02pm by bsphil
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
Why is it that if you believe in a life after this one...you're wasting this one? Explain the concept to me because I don't get it...makes no sense to me, or any logical thought process. I'm living my life, if I belive there's one after this one and just continuing on...who's wasting their life? The person trying to convince me there isn't or me, just living my life? >.>
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