MMO Christian Ministy (was forum=10) (was forum=28)Follow

Christian doctrine, by default, berates people's beliefs. That's why you see a knee-jerk reaction when people come around with smiles and prayer books.

Personally, I'd prefer never to see this sort of thing on the FFXI forums. Or anywhere, for that matter. Along this line of thought is why I feel the flaming is justified.

People have different beliefs. I think everyone gets that, and the vast, vast majority of us are tolerant to it. You rarely hear about people killing each other over a religious disagreement; that would be my definition of intolerance. Getting in shouting matches, however, is much more common. I don't define that as intolerance, and I think it's a little bit of a stretch to define most of these posts as 'intolerant'.

Consider: most of these posts are not directing their anger directly at the OP. Key word most, I know there are some exceptions. Most of these posts are not attacking Christianity itself, though a few are. They are voicing their own opinions on where and when this type of subject should be discussed. Nobody is saying "BAN THEM! GET THE PITCHFORKS!"

Simply disagreeing and pointing out a different view does not automatically make you intolerant =P

It has been pointed out that this intense reaction happens uniquely to religious discussions; well, yes, that's true. There's a reason for it. Religion is the only subject I can think of that suggests consequences if you disagree. That is why people react to it so badly. Look at politics -- if people disagree with you on a president, they might call you an idiot, or say you're the root problem of this country, but they don't threaten you with eternal damnation (unless they're violating basic separation of church and state =P). Atheism, while a belief system, also does not generate the same level of animosity in discussions. If you disagree with an atheist, what does the atheist care beyond thinking you're wrong? They don't believe you'll go to hell, nor them for letting you walk about unconverted. This is where religion crosses a line that causes people to react badly. This flaming, in that context, is completely justified.

An "offer" from Christianity, or Islam, or any of a number of other organized religions, is basically like an "offer" from someone who says they'll burn your children if you disagree. From their point of view, if you do not agree with them, you will burn for eternity (or <Insertyourversionofhell>). If you do not agree, this bad thing will happen. As long as there is that invisible string tied to their offer (that most people are well aware of by adulthood), I am completely behind the flaming of religion being preached or offered in these forums. And without changing the core beliefs of many religions that currently exist, I cannot think that this situation will change anytime soon.

P.S. -- feel free to flame! =P

Edit: When I said you rarely hear about people killing each other over a religious disagreement, I was referring to everyday life in a relatively safe country (The US, Japan, Europe, etc.). On a global scale, I think this occurs to a huge degree, as well as in other parts of the world that are less safe than western societies.

2nd Edit: Sub-defaulted already, and not even a reply yet. I see we have a large and intellectual group of forum-goers today >.> this may be a record time.

Edited, Sep 19th 2008 1:07pm by VhailorEmp

Edited, Sep 19th 2008 1:11pm by VhailorEmp

I have zero problem with this up until the 'preaching' part.

I don't think there's anyone playing an MMO (read: uses the Internet) who doesn't know at this point who Jesus Christ is. We know who he is. It's good that you and those who are also Christians have found your way to meaning in life, but we don't need reintroduction to Jesus Christ.



No, people are petrified of being put into an awkward situation by a pushy guy who talks constantly about noncontextual things like the good word of the Lord, and asks us if we've accepted God and all the other things that pushy Christians say and do to harass other people.
It's uncomfortable to be waylaid and have a lot of religious questions thrown at you. How is this mysterious? What is it about 'people don't like to be preached at' that's so hard to understand?

Not everyone who isn't Christian WANTS to be. Most of us who aren't Christians feel that way because reality, as we see it, is not conducive to a giant man in the sky who sees everything that 2 billion people do on a daily basis and gives a damn morally. We don't believe the orthodoxy at this point in our lives. You cannot change our minds unless our opinions on the topic barely existed to begin with.

You know what the Tao is? The Tao makes more sense to me personally, on a reality/perception/consciousness basis, than Christianity does. So am I allowed to make assumptions about your beliefs being incorrect, and come up to you uninvited to explain Taoism to you?

Religion is FINE. It's a necessary part of life, spiritual love is important to the development of a centered human being. But yes, people tend to hate it when others are so presumptuous as to have 'all the answers' when reality and observation make all those answers not quite so simple.



edit: I cannot write legibly this morning

Edited, Sep 19th 2008 2:21pm by Sioux

Guys, the OP hasn't come back and argued with anyone. His original post was just a basic invite letting people know he is there. He didn't demand you go to the website, he didn't argue with any of the flamers, he actually posted in here again in a very apologetic tone (at least that's how it read to me) further explaining that he has no intention of doing all of the things that you are afraid he might do.

I mean there are some long and really thought out posts against all the things that are bad about organized religion and preaching, and I commend you all for being so steadfastly against religious violence.

But don't you think that it's a bit much, considering how mild the OP was?

Actually I wasn't actually indignant about this, just wondering what his group has to do with FFXI. Just imaging if some random guy just come in and advertise a group that plays LoTRO, WoW and WAR on a FFXI forum.

Sorry, I'm not "lost". I know exactly where I am.

well what im curious to know is why he posted on a board for an MMO which isnt even on the list of games he mentioned? If he said he was gonna start one on FFXI or something then it would be a different story, but if that isnt the case then isnt this post kinda pointless?

He's just stating where they currently have groups formed, and posted here on the XI boards hoping to recruit a few people from this MMO as well.



You're really not helping, or even appear to be trying to do so.



Yeah, that was my mistake. I realize that there are a lot of different backgrounds of people that post here, just kinda slipped.

That's true, however



That's preaching.



At this point you're splitting hairs. There's not much of a difference between preaching and handing someone a pamphlet that preaches for you.

Religion somehow manifests itself as this "Untouchable" entity in social environments, no matter how unrelated or inappropriate, no one dares remove it.

If I posted a thread entitled "MMO Country Western Group" here in GD. Offering an advertisement-esque link offsite to gather and discuss Country Music, it would surely be (re)moved.

The OP does not even mention FFXI or any other thing that can be considered FFXI General Discussion, but alas, the thread is still here because Christianity is involved of course.

Here's the catch right, if I say what I think of Christianity and offer this Thread as evidence, I will be massively downrated. Thats the double edged sword that a thread like this brings.

"Hey, I'm going to be disruptive and invade your community. Excuse me while I hold up this huge obnoxious sign directing you towards an another community that talks about religion, but don't you dare discuss my religion here because I am doing so."

Shame.


Edited, Sep 19th 2008 2:44pm by patient

I'm just simply reading it as such. He claimed to have groups in the other MMO's and is now posting here on the XI boards hoping to get people from here.

It's kind of like saying he has people from Ohio, Michigan and Florida, but that doesn't some how mean that he isn't trying to recruit people from other places, hes just letting you know that he has formed a group on these other MMO's and is now trying to gain one here; possibly as a way to know that hes serious and isn't just being full of hot air.

Edited, Sep 19th 2008 3:55pm by DarkKnightZero

I'm in the camp of OP invited people join an MMO support group and is therefore innocent of any crime on allakhazam.

I think the real question on everyone's mind is....

Does Jesus have a strategy for defeating Absolute Virtue?
Other than 12 KC Apostles.

All jokes aside, I feel that religion in itself can be a wonderful thing. It gives people hope, inspiration and a feeling of empowerment over their lives. The problem lies in the tendency to believe that our (human beings as a whole) way is the only way. Once you get around that, you'll find that every religion in the world is the same at it's core. Whether you worship God, The Goddess, Allah or "Jeff" the produce stocker. To each their own.

I'd guess the reason why some people reacted the way they did is because Christianity has been known to be a bit more on the aggressive side when it comes to sharing their collective beliefs. And that it's only human nature for individuals to remember the bad or more extreme cases over those that are/were more pleasant. Seems that for every 1 bad thing that is done, you need to do at least 100 hundred good things to get people to look beyond it.

We could all do with learning to be a bit more tolerant with each other when it comes to beliefs (both personal and religious), lifestyle and choices.