Apart from the 90 boost there are two topics that have spurred some heated discussions on the different forums I frequent.
1) WoD being most likely released towards the end of the year, with no content patches in between apart from the pre-expansion event and 6.0 changes to classes/stats/spells.
I must say, this is no problem for me. Since I am a completionist I actually like having more time on my hands to reach my goals before WoD. If I somehow run out of content to do (or the will to do it) I'll just unsubscribe for a few months and play something other. Reaper of Souls is just around the corner and I wanted to play Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 for some time now.
2) No flying in Draenor until at least 6.1 maybe even for the entire expansion. Since they said something along the lines of "no flying at launch and then we'll see" it is possible they are thinking about not adding it at all to the new continent.
This pisses me of, quite frankly. Riding ground mounts till level cap is fine by me. When I level alts it starts to get on my nerve but is still bearable. But on my level 100 main I want to fly! I see zero value in this change and view it as a clumsy effort to extend content (because everything takes longer, see the unskippable cutscenes in ToT).
So what do you think about all this?
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The long pause has always been an issue with expansions. It's one of the many reasons I don't personally care for vertical WoW-style progression systems.
Whether or not flying is added will be problematic relative to their level design. They can't design the levels with the idea that flying MIGHT be added. They have to know already if they're intending to add it, and how long players are going to have to deal with maps without it.
If they decide no flying, period, then it's only an issue if their level design wasn't focused on that concept from the start. We can't have zones the size of ICG and have no flying. Just no.
On the other hand, if they design smaller, tighter zones with terrain variability to suit ground mounts, then they really can't cave and add flying mounts unless they go back to the slower speed mounts.*
*I'm not convinced this isn't a good idea moving forward, for the health of the game. Epic flying mounts, imo, should NEVER have gotten as fast as they did. Especially not since content is being designed around the idea of players having them. That's one of the biggest problems.
It sucks to take things away from players. But sometimes that's the lesser of two evils.
Whether or not flying is added will be problematic relative to their level design. They can't design the levels with the idea that flying MIGHT be added. They have to know already if they're intending to add it, and how long players are going to have to deal with maps without it.
If they decide no flying, period, then it's only an issue if their level design wasn't focused on that concept from the start. We can't have zones the size of ICG and have no flying. Just no.
On the other hand, if they design smaller, tighter zones with terrain variability to suit ground mounts, then they really can't cave and add flying mounts unless they go back to the slower speed mounts.*
*I'm not convinced this isn't a good idea moving forward, for the health of the game. Epic flying mounts, imo, should NEVER have gotten as fast as they did. Especially not since content is being designed around the idea of players having them. That's one of the biggest problems.
It sucks to take things away from players. But sometimes that's the lesser of two evils.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
What really annoys me is they talk about how they wish they had never implemented flying into the game but how much money has flying made this company? It was selling points for both BC and Cata. They have made millions with the flying mounts from the blizzard store. I know the mounts from the blizzard store can be used as ground mounts but honestly people don't generally buy flying creatures just to watch them limp around on the ground all day.
Like the op said I don't mind staying grounded until max level in a new expansion but when I hit max level I really want to fly. If they want to make small places like Timeless Isle with no flying I can handle that (although I hate thundering isles because of this).
Like the op said I don't mind staying grounded until max level in a new expansion but when I hit max level I really want to fly. If they want to make small places like Timeless Isle with no flying I can handle that (although I hate thundering isles because of this).
Hi
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The long pause has always been an issue with expansions.
But frankly, I don't know why they don't throw in some minor content to tide people over until the next expansion. Some kind of minor in-game events wouldn't hurt. Is it that hard to put together a semi-annual 'find-the-gnome-in-your-pants' day? Pirates can raid something? Maybe one of the dragonflights could get grumpy, or some undead need to be smashed. Other MMOs seem to be able to weave these kinds of things into their framework fairly easily, why not WoW?
fronglo wrote:
What really annoys me is they talk about how they wish they had never implemented flying into the game but how much money has flying made this company? It was selling points for both BC and Cata. They have made millions with the flying mounts from the blizzard store. I know the mounts from the blizzard store can be used as ground mounts but honestly people don't generally buy flying creatures just to watch them limp around on the ground all day.
How about some anti aircraft guns (catapults?) and/or have those flying patrols able to knock you out of the sky? They can knock you off your mount, and you parachute down to the ground? Anything really, integrate them somehow, find ways to limit what they can do. Make flying over areas where you're under-leveled as dangerous as walking through them (and likewise over-leveled just as problem-free). You fly high where everyone can see you, and that can cause problems when you land. I don't know, something to add to it, make it dynamic, and feel like part of the game. Right now flying mounts are just an odd piece that doesn't really fit anywhere, other than being really cool taxis. Seems like you could make an investment in time there and it'd pay off down the road.
Edited, Mar 18th 2014 9:39am by someproteinguy
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
Yeah, imo, anti-aircraft options is probably really needed. It makes no sense that no troops in the WoW universe are ever prepared for an air assault.
If air mounts are a solid way to get you TO the questing area, but not straight to the objective, they still have practical purpose and the designers still get to use terrain to control things.
I would try and structure it so that flying mounts are what you use for a long journey, but ground mounts are better for shorter journeys. When you're going to be questing in an area, you use your ground mount (if any mount).
I do think that epic flying needs to be brought down to like 150% or lower though. They can give legacy speed to old zones, where they're designed with it in mind, but cap it at 150% elsewhere. It'll be rough at first, but people will adjust quickly.
If air mounts are a solid way to get you TO the questing area, but not straight to the objective, they still have practical purpose and the designers still get to use terrain to control things.
I would try and structure it so that flying mounts are what you use for a long journey, but ground mounts are better for shorter journeys. When you're going to be questing in an area, you use your ground mount (if any mount).
I do think that epic flying needs to be brought down to like 150% or lower though. They can give legacy speed to old zones, where they're designed with it in mind, but cap it at 150% elsewhere. It'll be rough at first, but people will adjust quickly.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Yeah, imo, anti-aircraft options is probably really needed. It makes no sense that no troops in the WoW universe are ever prepared for an air assault.
If air mounts are a solid way to get you TO the questing area, but not straight to the objective, they still have practical purpose and the designers still get to use terrain to control things.
If air mounts are a solid way to get you TO the questing area, but not straight to the objective, they still have practical purpose and the designers still get to use terrain to control things.
The speed of the flying mount doesn't bother me so much; it's in lieu of a taxi. Maybe you make it so if you choose to "fly fast" there's added risk, in that if someone spots you and tries to attack you get some kind of debuff, maybe akin to the dazed thing you get when running with something like aspect of the pack on (just shooting from the hip here; being "dazed" and/or knocked off your mount by something 60 levels lower than you would be annoying as all heck and not really the goal). Really I suspect if you make it so there's a reason people will frequently prefer the ground mount then the rest of the problems solve themselves.
Edited, Mar 18th 2014 10:24am by someproteinguy
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
I really don't see the point in limiting flying apart from the leveling experience. Since I will want all of my 6 characters on level 100 that gives me plenty opportunities to experience the landscape. If I'm maxlevel I want to go where I want and how I want and the faster the better. When I'm at my destination I will most likely fight mobs anyway because most activities incorporate at least the probability of encountering enemies. But in that case it feels like fighting with a purpose. Completing a quest, getting to a node of ore, freeing my archeaology spot, whatever.
But having to drudge through mobs just to get there, after I've done that dozens, maybe hundreds of times while leveling my different characters? No, thanks. That's not immersion. That's taking up my time with stupid **** I don't want to do. At least thats how I feel about it.
The different no-flying-islands of MoP were totally okay for me. At least I could get there fast, thanks to my 310% flying speed.
But having to drudge through mobs just to get there, after I've done that dozens, maybe hundreds of times while leveling my different characters? No, thanks. That's not immersion. That's taking up my time with stupid **** I don't want to do. At least thats how I feel about it.
The different no-flying-islands of MoP were totally okay for me. At least I could get there fast, thanks to my 310% flying speed.
TherealLogros wrote:
But having to drudge through mobs just to get there, after I've done that dozens, maybe hundreds of times while leveling my different characters? No, thanks. That's not immersion. That's taking up my time with stupid sh*t I don't want to do. At least thats how I feel about it.
Edit: Realistically I wasn't thinking of walling off whole zones with anti-flying mount defenses or anything, just an area large enough you wouldn't need to create a whole different "no flying zone" off the coast on an island or wherever just to have ground combat. Your roaming horde of kobolds wouldn't have AA or anything, but that major enemy fortress has enough firepower to make sure you don't simply fly over their walls and land inside.
Edited, Mar 18th 2014 10:50am by someproteinguy
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
someproteinguy wrote:
Realistically I wasn't thinking of walling off whole zones with anti-flying mount defenses or anything, just an area large enough you wouldn't need to create a whole different "no flying zone" off the coast on an island or wherever just to have ground combat. Your roaming horde of kobolds wouldn't have AA or anything, but that major enemy fortress has enough firepower to make sure you don't simply fly over their walls and land inside.
I may be misremembering but wasn't something similar the case in BC? I seem to recall it to be a very bad idea to fly above the enemy factions settlements with your 70 character. That would be absolutely fine, because it makes sense.
Saying "We take away flying after you enjoyed it for 4 expansions because we think it will make gameplay more FUN for you lol" makes no sense.
Logos, it's not actually about getting people to experience the zone. Not really. It's about the devs having the ability to control the quality of players' experiences in the moment-to-moment play.
They carefully create the terrain of a quest area and place mobs with specific intention of how players will move through them, which lets them actually plan and think about player experience moving through that zone.
But when you can just drop in and pop out of that area at any point, because of a flying mount, they completely lose the ability to actually have a real influence in player experience.
It very well may be that the proper experience means that players don't want to be fighting so many mobs to get to their quest point. Or maybe they want more diverse mobs. Etc. But to actually deliver on these things, Blizz needs to control where players access a zone and how they get to the quest objective.
If the start point of the quest area to quest end point isn't fun for players, that's a design failure on Blizz's part. But at least then they actually failed at something they had control over.
Right now, they just need to fill areas with tons of mobs so that players dropping in from anywhere have actually competition to fight before they hit the quest node and fly off. It's just not a good system from a design perspective. It's boring, it's chaotic, and everyone loses.
They carefully create the terrain of a quest area and place mobs with specific intention of how players will move through them, which lets them actually plan and think about player experience moving through that zone.
But when you can just drop in and pop out of that area at any point, because of a flying mount, they completely lose the ability to actually have a real influence in player experience.
It very well may be that the proper experience means that players don't want to be fighting so many mobs to get to their quest point. Or maybe they want more diverse mobs. Etc. But to actually deliver on these things, Blizz needs to control where players access a zone and how they get to the quest objective.
If the start point of the quest area to quest end point isn't fun for players, that's a design failure on Blizz's part. But at least then they actually failed at something they had control over.
Right now, they just need to fill areas with tons of mobs so that players dropping in from anywhere have actually competition to fight before they hit the quest node and fly off. It's just not a good system from a design perspective. It's boring, it's chaotic, and everyone loses.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
TherealLogros wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Realistically I wasn't thinking of walling off whole zones with anti-flying mount defenses or anything, just an area large enough you wouldn't need to create a whole different "no flying zone" off the coast on an island or wherever just to have ground combat. Your roaming horde of kobolds wouldn't have AA or anything, but that major enemy fortress has enough firepower to make sure you don't simply fly over their walls and land inside.
I may be misremembering but wasn't something similar the case in BC? I seem to recall it to be a very bad idea to fly above the enemy factions settlements with your 70 character. That would be absolutely fine, because it makes sense.
Saying "We take away flying after you enjoyed it for 4 expansions because we think it will make gameplay more FUN for you lol" makes no sense.
But yeah, I'd much rather they find some way of making the mounts work. Taking away flying mounts at this point isn't going to be popular by any means, and there's a whole bunch of content (i.e. things with flying mounts as a reward) that's going to feel a lot less relevant.
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
They carefully create the terrain of a quest area and place mobs with specific intention of how players will move through them, which lets them actually plan and think about player experience moving through that zone.
Edited, Mar 18th 2014 11:48am by someproteinguy
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Yeah, imo, anti-aircraft options is probably really needed. It makes no sense that no troops in the WoW universe are ever prepared for an air assault.
If air mounts are a solid way to get you TO the questing area, but not straight to the objective, they still have practical purpose and the designers still get to use terrain to control things.
I would try and structure it so that flying mounts are what you use for a long journey, but ground mounts are better for shorter journeys. When you're going to be questing in an area, you use your ground mount (if any mount).
I do think that epic flying needs to be brought down to like 150% or lower though. They can give legacy speed to old zones, where they're designed with it in mind, but cap it at 150% elsewhere. It'll be rough at first, but people will adjust quickly.
If air mounts are a solid way to get you TO the questing area, but not straight to the objective, they still have practical purpose and the designers still get to use terrain to control things.
I would try and structure it so that flying mounts are what you use for a long journey, but ground mounts are better for shorter journeys. When you're going to be questing in an area, you use your ground mount (if any mount).
I do think that epic flying needs to be brought down to like 150% or lower though. They can give legacy speed to old zones, where they're designed with it in mind, but cap it at 150% elsewhere. It'll be rough at first, but people will adjust quickly.
this makes sense
that being said when i was on my druid i'd use flight form to travel anything out of charge range
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
13/14 HM SoO. We might have Garrosh down by Q4.....
A year with no new content is going to hurt subscriptions. I am really concerned with the healing changes, but holding off until I hear word from beta.
Diablo 2.0 is the greatest thing ever though. That will keep me busy for a month or two. Then I have skyrim, walking dead, baldurs gate 1 & some other games floating around.
A year with no new content is going to hurt subscriptions. I am really concerned with the healing changes, but holding off until I hear word from beta.
Diablo 2.0 is the greatest thing ever though. That will keep me busy for a month or two. Then I have skyrim, walking dead, baldurs gate 1 & some other games floating around.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
bodhisattva wrote:
13/14 HM SoO. We might have Garrosh down by Q4.....
A year with no new content is going to hurt subscriptions. I am really concerned with the healing changes, but holding off until I hear word from beta.
Diablo 2.0 is the greatest thing ever though. That will keep me busy for a month or two. Then I have skyrim, walking dead, baldurs gate 1 & some other games floating around.
A year with no new content is going to hurt subscriptions. I am really concerned with the healing changes, but holding off until I hear word from beta.
Diablo 2.0 is the greatest thing ever though. That will keep me busy for a month or two. Then I have skyrim, walking dead, baldurs gate 1 & some other games floating around.
FFXIV here.
Though I don't even feel like playing that constantly day in, day out either. Thankfully, I've a backlog of cheap Steam games I picked up over the last couple sales, and a few movies I've not seen yet that I'll throw in there.
I'm not one of those players going "OMG the year wait is the end of WoW!!!", because... I'm one of those rare ones who realize that *gasp* taking a break from a game can actually be healthy.
And yes, I putz around with D3 2.0 too. I've not bought the Expansion yet, though... I'm on the fence until I get up to 60 and see how things are at that level.
Edited, Apr 4th 2014 9:06am by Lyrailis
Lyrailis wrote:
And yes, I putz around with D3 2.0 too. I've not bought the Expansion yet, though... I'm on the fence until I get up to 60 and see how things are at that level.
When deciding if you want to buy it keep in mind, you haven't seen the Adventure Mode (Rifts + Bounties), the Enchantress (Transmog + Reforging) and the 5th act. All of those are pretty damn great.
My only real quarrel so far are the Legendary crafting recipes @70. They require so many materials and can roll totally crappy stats. I have found the recipes for 4 whole sets and 2 legendary items but I don' think I will ever craft one of those.
Act V was short. Beautiful zones though.
Adventure modes are fun.
Adventure modes are fun.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
TherealLogros wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
And yes, I putz around with D3 2.0 too. I've not bought the Expansion yet, though... I'm on the fence until I get up to 60 and see how things are at that level.
When deciding if you want to buy it keep in mind, you haven't seen the Adventure Mode (Rifts + Bounties), the Enchantress (Transmog + Reforging) and the 5th act. All of those are pretty damn great.
My only real quarrel so far are the Legendary crafting recipes @70. They require so many materials and can roll totally crappy stats. I have found the recipes for 4 whole sets and 2 legendary items but I don' think I will ever craft one of those.
*nods* Yeah, those features sound cool and all but it is more of a "how many games am I juggling, am I bored of D3 yet, how close is WoW to coming out, and how deep am I in FFXIV?" kinda thing.
I think I'm gonna start up TOR again. I really want a MMO right now, but I have no clue what I want to play. TOR's F2P is easily the best in the market right now (since I don't like GW2's group content). Costing me nothing and a good story? Okay then.
Then again, I ALSO want to replay Dragon Age. So.
Then again, I ALSO want to replay Dragon Age. So.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
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