I need some fresh ideas here. We've been consistently working our way through DS, but end up totally stuck on that damn Gunship. We've all been watching videos, reading common strategies, been trying to analyze mobs and their timers.... but it just aint working. I think out of the several dozen attempts, we've managed to actually see the damn cow on the deck like twice or so, usually with pretty much everybody dead already.
If we focus on the drakes, we're getting run over by the 2nd pair of melee mobs. Trying to balance between drakes and elites looks a bit better, but usually results in the ship exploding on us.. This is most frustrating, and sorta makes me wonder if this is really the point where casual, laid back raiding just isn't going to work anymore. Even more so since I don't see the upcoming 5% nerf making much of a difference.
We can handle the sappers without problems. Everybody keeps moving into the Twilight Onslaught like they're supposed to. The only melee dps we have is the 2 tanks, and the 2 healers don't have too much of a problem keeping people up unless we get a really unlucky double charge from the melee dudes right before or after the TO.
So what to do? Killing at least the Dreadblade quick to reduce the charges and get rid of the cleave is about the only thing I can come up with anymore as an idea on how to handle this damn encounter.
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Any tips for Blackhorn (10N) ?Follow
I would need to see some dps logs to see if everyone's doing enough dmg and healing logs. If you get every sapper and everyone stands in the big swirly's standing in the smaller one's isn't all that necessary. I would have everyone focusing on the dread when it first comes out then when drakes come out have aleast 2 dps on each side downing the drakes and 2 dps on whichever add that is up. If your drakes don't go down fast enough then it's probably a dps issue. Not sure what classes your using but doting is huge i usally as a destruction lock keep up immolate and corruption on both adds while making sure to dps down the drakes as fast as possible.
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When were getting the fight down we kept letting the ship explode due to missed sappers, but it sounds like you have that sorted. You can try to squeeze a little more dps on the melee adds by tanking them in the same spot, especially if you have a lot of fire mages or other aoe classes. Just need to be careful that the tanks don't both end up stacking the Dreadblade dots, so face the adds in different directions. Equally, if there is a drake down you can drag the melee adds near it to try to get some splash damage on both. This is probably easier if there is only one melee add left up or you're very likely to end up cleaving some of your dps.
I usually tank so I haven't paid all that much attention to dps roles, but I think we usually have 3 dps on the melee adds, and 3 on the drakes.
I usually tank so I haven't paid all that much attention to dps roles, but I think we usually have 3 dps on the melee adds, and 3 on the drakes.
Tuning in for tips as well.
We have been stuck on this fight for weeks now. Usually sappers get through or we end up with like 6 ground adds up at once. I heal and I see the sappers drop every single time but I can't do much more than frostshock them real quick as I have 2-3 people taking charge damage every few seconds to try to keep up. We have tried i-don't-even-know how many strategies but we've only ever even seen the actual boss once.
You 2-heal it? We 3-heal and can't even keep up. It seems that every time the big onslaught hits we all get charged while in it by 2, 4, or 6 of the adds all at once.
It's just soooo frustrating because we have had very few problems with any of the other fights here. Zon'ozz gave us problems for a bit but we got that figured out.
We have been stuck on this fight for weeks now. Usually sappers get through or we end up with like 6 ground adds up at once. I heal and I see the sappers drop every single time but I can't do much more than frostshock them real quick as I have 2-3 people taking charge damage every few seconds to try to keep up. We have tried i-don't-even-know how many strategies but we've only ever even seen the actual boss once.
You 2-heal it? We 3-heal and can't even keep up. It seems that every time the big onslaught hits we all get charged while in it by 2, 4, or 6 of the adds all at once.
It's just soooo frustrating because we have had very few problems with any of the other fights here. Zon'ozz gave us problems for a bit but we got that figured out.
Sounds like the main cause for problems is the ship taking to much damage. You say you deal with the sappers without problem so that means the real problem is most likely one of two issues. One being that people are not intercepting enough of the Twilight Barrages. They can destroy if the ship quickly if not intercepted as often as possible. The second problem may be not enough raid dps to kill the drakes and adds before running out of health on the ship.
My recommendation would be to find the right balance of dps and split the on the melee adds and drakes relatively evenly. If one side is falling behind the other designate one person to be the "floater" between the two when called for.
Charges are something that can and should be dodged as much as possible. As soon as the trail of red circles that shows Charge pop up people should try to move out of the path. It's not necessarily fatal if you don't, but it is something that can be avoided to lighten the load while progressing.
I hope some of this helps. Good luck.
My recommendation would be to find the right balance of dps and split the on the melee adds and drakes relatively evenly. If one side is falling behind the other designate one person to be the "floater" between the two when called for.
Quote:
unless we get a really unlucky double charge from the melee dudes right before or after the TO.
Charges are something that can and should be dodged as much as possible. As soon as the trail of red circles that shows Charge pop up people should try to move out of the path. It's not necessarily fatal if you don't, but it is something that can be avoided to lighten the load while progressing.
I hope some of this helps. Good luck.
What my guild did for 10N was to assign one ranged dps to each of the sides to handle a drake solo.. I could usually work mine down in a couple of pulls. Another option is to have ranged dps focus one side at a time and then move to the other side once that first drake is dead. Killing drakes faster will reduce the number of twilight barrages you have to intercept.
You definitely still have to intercept them whenever you can. If you can get a couple people on them, grab them. If you have to soak them solo, be at full health because those things hurt when you're by yourself.
As for melee adds, we never had much of a problem with them. Melee dps would focus down one at a time and ranged dps would help if they had nothing drake-related to do.
Keep pushing, you'll get it. Just a matter of everyone doing what they're supposed to be doing.
You definitely still have to intercept them whenever you can. If you can get a couple people on them, grab them. If you have to soak them solo, be at full health because those things hurt when you're by yourself.
As for melee adds, we never had much of a problem with them. Melee dps would focus down one at a time and ranged dps would help if they had nothing drake-related to do.
Keep pushing, you'll get it. Just a matter of everyone doing what they're supposed to be doing.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Another dozen attempts last night, and still no luck. Eventually called it a night when things seemed to get worse rather than better. We keep losing the ship whenever things go well on the drakes and melee mobs, and likewise, end up with too many melee adds whenever we try to focus more on the drakes.
I think our dps is just completely overwhelmed whenever whenever the whole moving/switching/soaking thing starts. There is no particularly bad player. The only one not keeping up with the average is our owl, and she is more or less excused by really just being a healer trying to contribute to dps in her healing gear whenever we decide that 2 healers should be enough.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/183107/
What those logs have in common is that it starts out alright.. and then really goes to ****.
I think our dps is just completely overwhelmed whenever whenever the whole moving/switching/soaking thing starts. There is no particularly bad player. The only one not keeping up with the average is our owl, and she is more or less excused by really just being a healer trying to contribute to dps in her healing gear whenever we decide that 2 healers should be enough.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/183107/
What those logs have in common is that it starts out alright.. and then really goes to ****.
1 post
Each raid in Cata had 1 encounter which for some reason always challenged our guild more than others. It took us far longer to down Ryolith than Ragnaros for example. Similarly, Blackthorn vs. Deathwing (downed him 2 days ago - yeah!). We still struggle on that ship.
However, our success rate greatly increased once I suggested that we switch "mindset" as a test. At first, the priority was always "save the ship", then deal with adds. Invariably, the ship would die. I then suggested that we deal with adds first. That didn't mean not to also save the ship, merely changing the priority of actions. We had no problems with the sapper and the big adds.
The key was downing drakes. You start with 6 hitting the ship. As you kill each, the damage to the ship from their smaller strikes becomes less (5 hitting, then 4, then 3 and so on) and so the ship takes less damage from them as the fight progresses. So we really focused all dps on drakes. We'd mark each side for reference blue/green (personally I wouldn't mark them but just use port/starboard - whatever) and we'd call out which one to focus down. The respective DK tank would try to move close to the called out drake and add any spillover damage.
We also changed the assignments for soaking up the smaller hits. The tanks would try to cover the front half of the ship while the rest of us did the back part. However, we wouldn't sweat it if the smaller hits happened in the back. The focus was the drakes. For example, as an arc mage, when I am in burn phase I'm simply not moving to cover a smaller ship hit.
So, for us, this mind set change really helped. One drake goes down each time and a second gets his health lowered making it easier the next time he gets hooked. Because of that, sometimes 2 died at a time.
However, our success rate greatly increased once I suggested that we switch "mindset" as a test. At first, the priority was always "save the ship", then deal with adds. Invariably, the ship would die. I then suggested that we deal with adds first. That didn't mean not to also save the ship, merely changing the priority of actions. We had no problems with the sapper and the big adds.
The key was downing drakes. You start with 6 hitting the ship. As you kill each, the damage to the ship from their smaller strikes becomes less (5 hitting, then 4, then 3 and so on) and so the ship takes less damage from them as the fight progresses. So we really focused all dps on drakes. We'd mark each side for reference blue/green (personally I wouldn't mark them but just use port/starboard - whatever) and we'd call out which one to focus down. The respective DK tank would try to move close to the called out drake and add any spillover damage.
We also changed the assignments for soaking up the smaller hits. The tanks would try to cover the front half of the ship while the rest of us did the back part. However, we wouldn't sweat it if the smaller hits happened in the back. The focus was the drakes. For example, as an arc mage, when I am in burn phase I'm simply not moving to cover a smaller ship hit.
So, for us, this mind set change really helped. One drake goes down each time and a second gets his health lowered making it easier the next time he gets hooked. Because of that, sometimes 2 died at a time.
Well, we got ours down last night finally after a few shots.
I can't pinpoint exactly what it was we did differently (except for having our actual full core group back together) but the dps crew seemed to find that groove where sappers got nailed instantly, drakes got focused down, and everybody wailed on melee adds. People seemed to move out of charges most of the time, and since melee adds were dropping faster there were fewer charges to begin with.
The only real tip I can come up with is have the tanks bring their adds next to each other so their aoes catch both and help bring them down a bit quicker and aoe heals cover everybody more easily. Bonus if they are able to do this around the quadrant near the cabin door to catch sappers in the mix as well, but as there's a lot of movement required for onslaughts this isn't always feasible.
The first time we got Blackhorn to drop, we were all alive and in good shape with no adds up and downed him easily.
I can't pinpoint exactly what it was we did differently (except for having our actual full core group back together) but the dps crew seemed to find that groove where sappers got nailed instantly, drakes got focused down, and everybody wailed on melee adds. People seemed to move out of charges most of the time, and since melee adds were dropping faster there were fewer charges to begin with.
The only real tip I can come up with is have the tanks bring their adds next to each other so their aoes catch both and help bring them down a bit quicker and aoe heals cover everybody more easily. Bonus if they are able to do this around the quadrant near the cabin door to catch sappers in the mix as well, but as there's a lot of movement required for onslaughts this isn't always feasible.
The first time we got Blackhorn to drop, we were all alive and in good shape with no adds up and downed him easily.
We assign a couple of melee to the sappers (they call out if they need help), but we have a lot of stuns in our group so that might not work as well with your set up. If you've got a couple of players with good burst you could have them on the sapper and leave the rest working on other adds, but I don't think it should be a problem to have everyone switch if needed.
My guild runs with 2 healers now, but we used 3 healers for quite a long time after the first kill. Obviously more dps means less adds up and less damage, but if your healers are having trouble topping people up quickly enough then it might be better to go for 3 (plus the second phase has quite heavy aoe damage).
When we were learning the fight we had a lot of problems with people running into the little circles when they weren't on full health, usually leading to their death. In the end we went for staying out unless you were full on health or there was more than one person taking it.
For Twilight Barrage we leave the tank with the cleave add out of the raid to minimize damage for the group. For the charges try to make sure your ranged and healers are standing away from the mobs (and can see the charge warning on the floor), you should be able to avoid most of the charges.
I'd recommend splitting your damage with two, preferably dot, classes on the drakes (so they can dot up the melee mobs and still do some damage on the drakes when they fly off) and the rest on melee/sappers. I'm not sure if it's better to kill one drake first and then move onto the next or take them both down at once (I'm guessing the first way gets you less circles once first drake is dead).
For the melee adds our guild kills the dreadblade first so we don't have to worry about the cleave for too long.
My guild runs with 2 healers now, but we used 3 healers for quite a long time after the first kill. Obviously more dps means less adds up and less damage, but if your healers are having trouble topping people up quickly enough then it might be better to go for 3 (plus the second phase has quite heavy aoe damage).
When we were learning the fight we had a lot of problems with people running into the little circles when they weren't on full health, usually leading to their death. In the end we went for staying out unless you were full on health or there was more than one person taking it.
For Twilight Barrage we leave the tank with the cleave add out of the raid to minimize damage for the group. For the charges try to make sure your ranged and healers are standing away from the mobs (and can see the charge warning on the floor), you should be able to avoid most of the charges.
I'd recommend splitting your damage with two, preferably dot, classes on the drakes (so they can dot up the melee mobs and still do some damage on the drakes when they fly off) and the rest on melee/sappers. I'm not sure if it's better to kill one drake first and then move onto the next or take them both down at once (I'm guessing the first way gets you less circles once first drake is dead).
For the melee adds our guild kills the dreadblade first so we don't have to worry about the cleave for too long.
We always assign 2 DD for each sides Drake. Since we run with 2 healers + 2 tanks that leaves 2 DD who concentrate on the melee adds.
Sappers always go down really fast. It helps that one of our tanks is a DK who grips them in the middle of the melee pit. :)
We also have 2 Shadows and 1 WL among the 4 Drake-DD so from them there is always some extra damage on the melee adds.
Sappers always go down really fast. It helps that one of our tanks is a DK who grips them in the middle of the melee pit. :)
We also have 2 Shadows and 1 WL among the 4 Drake-DD so from them there is always some extra damage on the melee adds.
We put melee on the melee adds. The drakes are killed off one at a time with ranged hitting the melee adds when ever there isn't drakes up. We try to kill the first set of melee adds before the first drake set comes.
We have the raid all assigned to a square, 2 per. They are in charge of soaking the barrage in there square and ignore the rest.
We have the raid all assigned to a square, 2 per. They are in charge of soaking the barrage in there square and ignore the rest.
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Some fantastic suggestions here. Looking forward to trying them all on Friday.
So... the damn cow finally died just minutes ago. Split the 6 dps into 3 groups (2x2 for drakes, 2x melee) and ignored the little swirls unless they were really close and comfortable to reach. Seemed effortless really.
Got pretty loud on Mumble with everybody screaming when the sucker died :)
Got pretty loud on Mumble with everybody screaming when the sucker died :)
Congratulations! Nothing feels better than the moment when a boss you've been struggling with finally dies.
On another note, we wiped last night on heroic Ultraxion at 2%...that's one of the worst feelings. :(
On another note, we wiped last night on heroic Ultraxion at 2%...that's one of the worst feelings. :(
Tellaria wrote:
On another note, we wiped last night on heroic Ultraxion at 2%...that's one of the worst feelings. :(
We had a 0,4% wipe on him once. It took us another ID after that disaster to down him. When he finally died the mood was rather gloomy because everyone knew that we could have killed him one or even two IDs earlier if some people in the raid had not somehow managed to fail at Ultraxions mechanics every week again. Yes, Ultraxions "mechanics".
I took an extensive break from raiding shortly after.
TherealLogros wrote:
Tellaria wrote:
On another note, we wiped last night on heroic Ultraxion at 2%...that's one of the worst feelings. :(
We had a 0,4% wipe on him once. It took us another ID after that disaster to down him. When he finally died the mood was rather gloomy because everyone knew that we could have killed him one or even two IDs earlier if some people in the raid had not somehow managed to fail at Ultraxions mechanics every week again. Yes, Ultraxions "mechanics".
I took an extensive break from raiding shortly after.
We have about 3 people who can't click a button too. We also have 3-4 people who can't manage to do more than 25k dps. We've been recruiting but no luck with people who have brains so far. Hopefully he dies tomorrow night though!
/apologies for hijack
Kanngarnix wrote:
So... the damn cow finally died just minutes ago. Split the 6 dps into 3 groups (2x2 for drakes, 2x melee) and ignored the little swirls unless they were really close and comfortable to reach. Seemed effortless really.
Got pretty loud on Mumble with everybody screaming when the sucker died :)
Got pretty loud on Mumble with everybody screaming when the sucker died :)
gratz !!!!
Boat is pretty easy once you get it down. Good luck on Spine.
As a heads up, when my guild was first downing Spine, 5% nerf mode, we 2 healed the fight. We use 3 now as the Corruptions die to fast so getting multiple Amagls happens a lot and the extra healing helps as the DPS requirement isn't as tight.
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
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