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Death of the regular Cataclysmic HeroicFollow

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#1 Sep 28 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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The new Hour of Twilight / patch 4.3 heroic dungeons will have their own category in the random Dungeon Finder, while the Zandalari heroics tier has mysteriously disappeared. Now, when queueing for a random Cataclysm heroic, the system will include the two Troll instances if your item level is satisfactory to enter. In addition, the Hour of Twilight dungeons, as well as any Cataclysm heroic, now reward 150 valor points per completion, up to seven times week. Any heroic will now grant the same amount of valor points.

Moving the Zandalari heroics into the general heroic pool seemed like it would happen eventually, considering that having multiple tiers of dungeons to queue up for could get confusing over time. Now, players will be placed into dungeons based on their ilevel and not necessarily which dungeon category they queue for.

This presents an interesting dilemma, though. Players who want to do a quick heroic right now can queue for a random, non-Troll heroic and be in and out with half the VP (and half the stress -- I'm looking at you, Jin'do) in half the time of a Troll heroic. In 4.3, it doesn't appear that you'll have the option. Then again, everyone at a high enough gear level to care about this stuff will just queue for the Hour of Twilight heroics anyway, right?


Will you que for a random Heroic, knowing the Troll Dungeons are included?
I'll only be doing the new 5 mans from now on. :9 (32.1%)
Heck yeah, Troll dungeons are easy. :7 (25.0%)
Maybe, but I'm not happy about it. :10 (35.7%)
Not me. I wanted a quick run option, and now it's gone. :2 (7.1%)
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#2 Sep 28 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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I still have trouble getting myself to queue for a regular heroic now. Smiley: laugh
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#3 Sep 28 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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The only time Trolls are hard is when you get a gogogo guy paired with folks who aren't geared/ready for the hustle. Of course 90% of the time the gogogo guy is one of the unprepared ones.
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#4 Sep 28 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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TBH I wasn't going to queue either way. Smiley: frown
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#5 Sep 28 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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Wait, so once you're pimped out, you'll be running the two troll dungeons over and over and over...?

/wrist
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#6 Sep 28 2011 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Wait, so once you're pimped out, you'll be running the two troll dungeons over and over and over...?

Kinda sounds like they'll just be two additional options, not that you'll be forced into them.
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#7 Sep 28 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Wait, so once you're pimped out, you'll be running the two troll dungeons over and over and over...?

/wrist


Currently the choices are Cata heroics or Troll heroics. After 4.3 it'll be Cata heroics (including Troll) and Dragonsoul heroics.
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#8 Sep 28 2011 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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I believe Tabstopper sums it up. They won't be like "oh you can do troll heroics now, have fun with those two until you are ready for the next set of heroics lulz". They are just going to unlock the option for RNG to ***** you over and keep putting you into those two heroics over and over.

Smiley: dubious

Now that I think about it, yes you will be running those two troll heroics over and over. Smiley: banghead
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#9 Sep 28 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Oh, I totally missed the bit about regular heroics giving full VP. So the dungeon pool grows the higher your item level gets? Sounds okay.

Unless you need shoulders and helmets from the Troll dungeons. Then you're screwed. Big time.
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#10 Sep 28 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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Zarhym wrote:
We haven't made a final decision on the item levels for the new 5-player dungeons. We're in the process of making some updates to the Random Dungeon Finder categories, Valor Point acquisition/caps, epic vendor offerings, and developing the Raid Finder. The item levels are tied to these updates.


If you check the article and its comments, there is a link to a blue commenting on this



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#11 Sep 28 2011 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Is there a point to random dungeons this far into an expansion (except alts)? Do any of us really need or want justice or valor badgers badly enough to suffer pugs?

And if valor won't buy the next tier gear... well?
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#12 Sep 28 2011 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Is there a point to random dungeons this far into an expansion (except alts)? Do any of us really need or want justice or valor badgers badly enough to suffer pugs?

And if valor won't buy the next tier gear... well?


Yes. Valor = Current tier-level gear. Always a plus to running Heroics for them. It might not be actual tier gear, but it's a wide variety of very good gear to get you started going into the new instances.
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#13 Sep 28 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think we will see an Oculus Effect. You'll zone in and wonder where everyone went.
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#14 Sep 28 2011 at 7:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just figured most of the raiders on these forums have geared out of the need for valor badgers by now. We're deep into a nerfed tier. And the non-raiders would likely be done buying what is available (pants, chest, gloves, ring and bracers right?).

Also note that from what I understand, the next tier is drops only and cannot be bought with valor. So for raiders I don't see any reason to run the troll and lower 5-mans in the next tier at all. Unless they add some incentive.
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#15 Sep 28 2011 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
I just figured most of the raiders on these forums have geared out of the need for valor badgers by now. We're deep into a nerfed tier. And the non-raiders would likely be done buying what is available (pants, chest, gloves, ring and bracers right?).

Also note that from what I understand, the next tier is drops only and cannot be bought with valor. So for raiders I don't see any reason to run the troll and lower 5-mans in the next tier at all. Unless they add some incentive.


Tier gear comes only from bosses, but other gear comes from valor points.
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#16 Sep 28 2011 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
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selebrin wrote:
TherionSaysWhat wrote:
I just figured most of the raiders on these forums have geared out of the need for valor badgers by now. We're deep into a nerfed tier. And the non-raiders would likely be done buying what is available (pants, chest, gloves, ring and bracers right?).

Also note that from what I understand, the next tier is drops only and cannot be bought with valor. So for raiders I don't see any reason to run the troll and lower 5-mans in the next tier at all. Unless they add some incentive.


Tier gear comes only from bosses, but other gear comes from valor points.


That and some of us (myself for example) might want to come back to the game this late in the expansion. This change would allow us to get into end game raiding much sooner.
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#17 Sep 29 2011 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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The Honorable dadanox wrote:
I think we will see an Oculus Effect. You'll zone in and wonder where everyone went.


Well, the result was that they actually went and changed the place to be in line with everything else. I'd be all for that.
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#18 Sep 29 2011 at 3:01 AM Rating: Good
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We won't be able to buy T13 items with VP?

That sucks and effectively means progression for non-raiders is dead. I'll get T12 on my characters and then what? Run more dungeons so I can convert my VP to JP and buy cloth with it?

Yeah, no.
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#19 Sep 29 2011 at 3:03 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
We won't be able to buy T13 items with VP?

That sucks and effectively means progression for non-raiders is dead. I'll get T12 on my characters and then what? Run more dungeons so I can convert my VP to JP and buy cloth with it? use the new LFR tool to gear up.


Yeah, I know, it's technically not much better for the "non-raiders", but it's essentially the next step up from H 5-mans. Think of it as the exact same as the LFD tool, just with 5 more people.
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#20 Sep 29 2011 at 3:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
We won't be able to buy T13 items with VP?

That sucks and effectively means progression for non-raiders is dead. I'll get T12 on my characters and then what? Run more dungeons so I can convert my VP to JP and buy cloth with it?

Yeah, no.


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#21 Sep 29 2011 at 3:07 AM Rating: Good
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Horse, did you just blow my mind with a haiku?

As for the LFR thing, isn't there a week-long lockout on the raid dungeons? So instead of being locked out of a dungeon for a day because ProTank McPhail left and the group disbanded, I'd be locked out for a week?

Edit: And there'd be two ProTank McPhails instead of one? Sounds awesome... Smiley: um

Edited, Sep 29th 2011 11:12am by Mazra
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#22 Sep 29 2011 at 3:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Horse, did you just blow my mind with a haiku?

As for the LFR thing, isn't there a week-long lockout on the raid dungeons? So instead of being locked out of a dungeon for a day because ProTank McPhail left and the group disbanded, I'd be locked out for a week?

Edit: And there'd be two ProTank McPhails instead of one? Sounds awesome... Smiley: um

Edited, Sep 29th 2011 11:12am by Mazra

There was a blue a while back saying that, while they aren't 100% on how it will work, the plan now is that LFR won't lock you out of the regular raid. I'm thinking they're going to have LFR work just like LFD without the first run through locking you out of the raid, and maybe break the whole raid instance up like what they did with BRD.
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#23 Sep 29 2011 at 3:58 AM Rating: Good
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That would be awesome as hell.
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#24 Sep 29 2011 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
I believe Tabstopper sums it up. They won't be like "oh you can do troll heroics now, have fun with those two until you are ready for the next set of heroics lulz". They are just going to unlock the option for RNG to ***** you over and keep putting you into those two heroics over and over.

Smiley: dubious

Now that I think about it, yes you will be running those two troll heroics over and over. Smiley: banghead


This is basically what happened to me near the end of Wrath, when I was trying to gear up a shaman healer.

FoS FoS FoS FoS FoS 75% of the time.

My I-level was *barely* high enough for FoS, even though it was easily high enough for the other Heroics. Of course, wouldn't you know it, 3 out of 5 times I ended up with Mana-heavy groups and wound up wiping to Bronjahm because I couldn't handle 16k on 4 people every 10 seconds at the time.

Meh.

Hopefully they try to smooth the RNG out a bit so you don't get ZA ZG ZA ZG ZA ZG that often.


Edited, Sep 29th 2011 8:16am by Lyrailis
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#25 Sep 29 2011 at 6:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
Hopefully they try to smooth the RNG out a bit so you don't get ZA ZG ZA ZG ZA ZG that often.
Is it the RNG, or is it the people who want upgrades queueing for specific dungeons that's doing it?
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#26 Sep 29 2011 at 6:36 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
Hopefully they try to smooth the RNG out a bit so you don't get ZA ZG ZA ZG ZA ZG that often.
Is it the RNG, or is it the people who want upgrades queueing for specific dungeons that's doing it?


It could perhaps be a part of it, though surely people don't Q up just for 353s except for shoulder/head surely?

Assuming they make the DS 5mans at least 365+, I don't see why you'd Q up to get 353s...

Though I'd be kinda tempted to, just to fill the shoulders and head slot, as I think that's the only thing other than pants left on my main that isn't at least 359 or better.
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