Ok it's been sometime since i've posted on the Wow part of Alla, so hi all.
So I'm gathering up a raid for UBRS, hoping for chromatic scales and the Chromatic carapace to drop. Of course, the less plate, the possible is always better for me, since any plate wearer rolls N as soon as he/she sees purple and plate.
So this paladin (I'm a paladin as well) whispers and begs to get in...etc. I let him in, and we head for the instance.
Towards the end, after clearing the beast, my fiancee signs on Yahoo, and i switch to windowed mode, to chat with her, discussing the tickets and accomodation for when she comes next week. I tell the raid that I'll be AFK till Drakk, and that they can go ahead and clear the bridge/hall ...etc.
While chatting with her I notice this same paladin ******** about not getting BoK (we had more than enough paladins, 4 of them, and enough firepower, we never wiped) ... and when Drakk's turn came, I told my fiancee to hold, and focused on the game.
Suddenly, out of no where, the paladin yells : Our leader sucks, f*ck him!
I ask him to repeat what he said, and he calls me a useless fool ...etc. And uses the F-word another dozen times.
I ask him to be quiet and that i needed to chat with my fiancee, and his reply: F*ck you! fuc*king noob! ST*FU!
By then I'm at boiling point. Specially that some other members of the raid hadn't seen me type that i was gonna be AFK. Some other members threaten to leave the raid, if we dont shut up. So I just decide to ignore the named paladin.
Halfway through fight, he was still going on with (Noob! FU/CKING idiot ...etc) , so I just decide to inflict some pain on him, and i kick him out just before killing Drakk.
Suddenly some people in raid go ballistic on me, some understood, and just wanted to get it over with ...etc.
To cut a long story short, I probably got blacklisted in half the high-end guilds on my server. Although I had apologized if I had offended anybody, and that I thought he deserved a little arm-twisting.
Was I right or wrong?
Edited, Sun Dec 18 22:50:45 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
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Was I wrong or right?Follow
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although i really hate people going afk in a instance (most used reason is i need to eat: the food will still be there in 10mins time ffs), i think your in the right, if anyone talked to me like that pally did they would be removed from raid stright away and /ignored.Although u prolly should have kicked him before you started killing the boss.
my 2 cents
my 2 cents
I dunno man...I don't have a wife flying down to meet me, but I just put my away sign up when I use AIM and go play WoW with no distractions. I think the guy was a **** and it seems like the whole raid was a tad unorganized in the first place; but kicking him RIGHT BEFORE the kill, that's low man. To be honest I would probly be one of the people getting mad at you over that.
Like I said though I have nothing near the priority of a loved one's travel arrangments to make while I game so I may not be the best guage.
Like I said though I have nothing near the priority of a loved one's travel arrangments to make while I game so I may not be the best guage.
I had intended on kicking him earlier, but when some people (Main Tank and healer) threatened to leave if it escalated, I figured that the raid would be over, and would be blamed on me, and i think that only HIM should pay for his rudeness.
Nevertheless, I had people insulting me worse than he did, after I kicked him. I couldn't make sense of it. I still can't.
It is low, but he deserved it.
And btw, she called me and told me she was getting online before she heads off to work, I had to sort these things out THIS morning. I could have left i suppose, but imagine a guy just leaving before the final boss?
Edited, Sun Dec 18 00:55:15 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
Nevertheless, I had people insulting me worse than he did, after I kicked him. I couldn't make sense of it. I still can't.
It is low, but he deserved it.
And btw, she called me and told me she was getting online before she heads off to work, I had to sort these things out THIS morning. I could have left i suppose, but imagine a guy just leaving before the final boss?
Edited, Sun Dec 18 00:55:15 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
He was a tool, you did just fine. Rule your raid with an iron fist. I get irked when people go AFK but sometimes life gets in the way of a game. It happens. The more mature players will understand this because it'll happen to them eventualy and they'll want you to be understanding.
Thank You!!
Your post brings me to another point relevant to this "incident".
I usually wouldn't get bothered by a prick like him, BUT what's troubling here is the overwhelmingly hostile response I got from the raid, at least 6-7 people left, 3 stayed and flamed me, and the rest were either quiet or comforting.
The maturity factor is VERY important. "FU*CK YOU" to a 12-year old isnt as insulting and abrasive as to a 21+ year-old. So for me to get all the negative reactions, basically means that the 12-year old idiots in the raid didn't really think he did anything wrong?
Which leads to another question: Since the "effectiveness" of a player is almost entirely judged, by the merit of being good with game techniques, and knowing your class abilities, and since that has little to do with age, THEN: what to do in a situation where that kid, which lacks judgment, and maturity, and well-balanced hormones, has a say over you? in the game?
I mean I got blacklisted because two fellow 12-year olds, which happen to be influential in their respective guilds, had just demanded that I be "punished"....
In real life, the idiocy/clouded judgment of adolescents is met by little attention or sarcasm, but what if that adolescent suddenly has the ability to make your gaming experience hell?
Needless to say, there is no way you could talk sense in most of them, nor are you required to.
Remember the days when you were a kid and your parent grounded you, and you thought that THEY WERE WRONG, and that you were ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Well they didn't have to talk it out with you, they could just tell you to shut up and get up to your room. Later on in life you realize that they made the right choices in the majority of the cases. Well what if that kid suddenly is viewied "equally"? like it is in WoW? its friggin Hell.
Oh and btw, I've had enough with either kids, or inflated egos, in Alliance, I'm switching Horde.
Your post brings me to another point relevant to this "incident".
I usually wouldn't get bothered by a prick like him, BUT what's troubling here is the overwhelmingly hostile response I got from the raid, at least 6-7 people left, 3 stayed and flamed me, and the rest were either quiet or comforting.
The maturity factor is VERY important. "FU*CK YOU" to a 12-year old isnt as insulting and abrasive as to a 21+ year-old. So for me to get all the negative reactions, basically means that the 12-year old idiots in the raid didn't really think he did anything wrong?
Which leads to another question: Since the "effectiveness" of a player is almost entirely judged, by the merit of being good with game techniques, and knowing your class abilities, and since that has little to do with age, THEN: what to do in a situation where that kid, which lacks judgment, and maturity, and well-balanced hormones, has a say over you? in the game?
I mean I got blacklisted because two fellow 12-year olds, which happen to be influential in their respective guilds, had just demanded that I be "punished"....
In real life, the idiocy/clouded judgment of adolescents is met by little attention or sarcasm, but what if that adolescent suddenly has the ability to make your gaming experience hell?
Needless to say, there is no way you could talk sense in most of them, nor are you required to.
Remember the days when you were a kid and your parent grounded you, and you thought that THEY WERE WRONG, and that you were ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Well they didn't have to talk it out with you, they could just tell you to shut up and get up to your room. Later on in life you realize that they made the right choices in the majority of the cases. Well what if that kid suddenly is viewied "equally"? like it is in WoW? its friggin Hell.
Oh and btw, I've had enough with either kids, or inflated egos, in Alliance, I'm switching Horde.
Explain what happened on the server forums.
what do u mean?
A very important thing a leader has to watch out, and take care of is the MORALE of his team. You'll often pass for a useless fool who's doing nothing other than watching over an "INVISIBLE" leadership thing that makes him think he's important. Well, yah, leadership actually makes you look as the least important and most useless guy in the team because you are not doing "the activity" as much as others are.
Being in a position of leadership, by itself, will question your leadership. Being AFK for 10 minutes in that position, will do a lot to work against you.
Well, all and all, you should learn to watch team morale, and if you can learn it, try to be a good behaviour catalyst.
http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
Yah, we leaders are just "wannabe importants" who do nothing and know nothing and there's really nothing that would make us knowledgable or useful for the task. If all goes well it's because everyone was gooooooood and the team was made of the best rambos in the park, not because of a silly "leader" who didn't do any DPS himself... That's life, don't try to take credit for anything you do well.
It's actually one of the more challenging parts of the game, more than watching stats, dpses, heals, you're teamworking with humans, and unlike at your workplace, these humans didn't go trough any preparation or selection process to be your teammates.
You might do yourself a favor to read Sun Tzu's Art of War too. It's a very short book also, it's not about war, it's about the mindset of strategy and approaching a task. This won't teach you $h!t about DPS, heals, mobs, elites, monsters, or anything of the sort, but if you learn how Sun Tzu solved the difficult puzzles of War, solving the puzzles of WoW will become baby stuff.
As for the way in which you addressed the Problem, it's "understandable" that you have reacted in that way. But kicking the person during the boss fight is a "dishonorable" move to say the least, it's a great taboo in the wow community, you basicly broke every single rule of being a good catalyst in a matter of a split second, the results were predictable and were to be expected.
You should have looked for better ways to address the problem, an example of a decent move would have been to delegate leadership to someone else, that would give second air to the team's morale. Never think you're the only person capable of leading your team to victory, there's many other people that have succeeded, even if they weren't even good.
Another solution would have been to find a way to make him quiet or to delay his bizatching until after some task was completed, if you could. A simple phrase like "we will discuss it once we get there" can do miracles.
And, a cheap tip on human behaviour, feeding people's egos makes them more cooperative ;), as long as you don't inflate their egos to where it's out of your control. But it's cheap, and can backfire if you do it wrong.
Being in a position of leadership, by itself, will question your leadership. Being AFK for 10 minutes in that position, will do a lot to work against you.
Well, all and all, you should learn to watch team morale, and if you can learn it, try to be a good behaviour catalyst.
http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
Yah, we leaders are just "wannabe importants" who do nothing and know nothing and there's really nothing that would make us knowledgable or useful for the task. If all goes well it's because everyone was gooooooood and the team was made of the best rambos in the park, not because of a silly "leader" who didn't do any DPS himself... That's life, don't try to take credit for anything you do well.
It's actually one of the more challenging parts of the game, more than watching stats, dpses, heals, you're teamworking with humans, and unlike at your workplace, these humans didn't go trough any preparation or selection process to be your teammates.
You might do yourself a favor to read Sun Tzu's Art of War too. It's a very short book also, it's not about war, it's about the mindset of strategy and approaching a task. This won't teach you $h!t about DPS, heals, mobs, elites, monsters, or anything of the sort, but if you learn how Sun Tzu solved the difficult puzzles of War, solving the puzzles of WoW will become baby stuff.
As for the way in which you addressed the Problem, it's "understandable" that you have reacted in that way. But kicking the person during the boss fight is a "dishonorable" move to say the least, it's a great taboo in the wow community, you basicly broke every single rule of being a good catalyst in a matter of a split second, the results were predictable and were to be expected.
You should have looked for better ways to address the problem, an example of a decent move would have been to delegate leadership to someone else, that would give second air to the team's morale. Never think you're the only person capable of leading your team to victory, there's many other people that have succeeded, even if they weren't even good.
Another solution would have been to find a way to make him quiet or to delay his bizatching until after some task was completed, if you could. A simple phrase like "we will discuss it once we get there" can do miracles.
And, a cheap tip on human behaviour, feeding people's egos makes them more cooperative ;), as long as you don't inflate their egos to where it's out of your control. But it's cheap, and can backfire if you do it wrong.
Yeah I could agree that kicking someone in the raid is a little bit wrong. You could have said to the raid: I'll kick him or I'm gone. I'm sure the raid would have agreed to kick him.
Kicking a same gearer at the end of the bossfight could lead to ninja'ing and there are guilds who blacklist you for it.
Now I wouldn't have kicked him myself, but I understand you hated him and wanted to give him what he deserved. But when you look back at this incident, would you say it was worth it?
Kicking a same gearer at the end of the bossfight could lead to ninja'ing and there are guilds who blacklist you for it.
Now I wouldn't have kicked him myself, but I understand you hated him and wanted to give him what he deserved. But when you look back at this incident, would you say it was worth it?
You did the right thing. I would boot him too if he was whining and making fun of the group leader.
Off Topic: I was actually kicked out of a guild on my dwarf hunter's server for telling a 32 priest she shouldnt be going into SM cath...talk about ironic. =/
Off Topic: I was actually kicked out of a guild on my dwarf hunter's server for telling a 32 priest she shouldnt be going into SM cath...talk about ironic. =/
GregoryTheWatcher wrote:
Ok it's been sometime since i've posted on the Wow part of Alla, so hi all.
So I'm gathering up a raid for UBRS, hoping for chromatic scales and the Chromatic carapace to drop. Of course, the less plate, the possible is always better for me, since any plate wearer rolls N as soon as he/she sees purple and plate.
So this paladin (I'm a paladin as well) whispers and begs to get in...etc. I let him in, and we head for the instance.
Towards the end, after clearing the beast, my fiancee signs on Yahoo, and i switch to windowed mode, to chat with her, discussing the tickets and accomodation for when she comes next week. I tell the raid that I'll be AFK till Drakk, and that they can go ahead and clear the bridge/hall ...etc.
While chatting with her I notice this same paladin ******** about not getting BoK (we had more than enough paladins, 5 of them, and enough firepower, we never wiped) ... and when Drakk's turn came, I told my fiancee to hold, and focused on the game.
Suddenly, out of no where, the paladin yells : Our leader sucks, f*ck him!
I ask him to repeat what he said, and he calls me a useless fool ...etc. And uses the F-word another dozen times.
I ask him to be quiet and that i needed to chat with my fiancee, and his reply: F*ck you! fuc*king noob! ST*FU!
By then I'm at boiling point. Specially that some other members of the raid hadn't seen me type that i was gonna be AFK. Some other members threaten to leave the raid, if we dont shut up. So I just decide to ignore the named paladin.
Halfway through fight, he was still going on with (Noob! FU/CKING idiot ...etc) , so I just decide to inflict some pain on him, and i kick him out just before killing Drakk.
Suddenly some people in raid go ballistic on me, some understood, and just wanted to get it over with ...etc.
To cut a long story short, I probably got blacklisted in half the high-end guilds on my server. Although I had apologized if I had offended anybody, and that I thought he deserved a little arm-twisting.
Was I right or wrong?
So I'm gathering up a raid for UBRS, hoping for chromatic scales and the Chromatic carapace to drop. Of course, the less plate, the possible is always better for me, since any plate wearer rolls N as soon as he/she sees purple and plate.
So this paladin (I'm a paladin as well) whispers and begs to get in...etc. I let him in, and we head for the instance.
Towards the end, after clearing the beast, my fiancee signs on Yahoo, and i switch to windowed mode, to chat with her, discussing the tickets and accomodation for when she comes next week. I tell the raid that I'll be AFK till Drakk, and that they can go ahead and clear the bridge/hall ...etc.
While chatting with her I notice this same paladin ******** about not getting BoK (we had more than enough paladins, 5 of them, and enough firepower, we never wiped) ... and when Drakk's turn came, I told my fiancee to hold, and focused on the game.
Suddenly, out of no where, the paladin yells : Our leader sucks, f*ck him!
I ask him to repeat what he said, and he calls me a useless fool ...etc. And uses the F-word another dozen times.
I ask him to be quiet and that i needed to chat with my fiancee, and his reply: F*ck you! fuc*king noob! ST*FU!
By then I'm at boiling point. Specially that some other members of the raid hadn't seen me type that i was gonna be AFK. Some other members threaten to leave the raid, if we dont shut up. So I just decide to ignore the named paladin.
Halfway through fight, he was still going on with (Noob! FU/CKING idiot ...etc) , so I just decide to inflict some pain on him, and i kick him out just before killing Drakk.
Suddenly some people in raid go ballistic on me, some understood, and just wanted to get it over with ...etc.
To cut a long story short, I probably got blacklisted in half the high-end guilds on my server. Although I had apologized if I had offended anybody, and that I thought he deserved a little arm-twisting.
Was I right or wrong?
It was probably reasonable if he wouldn't stop. You don't seem to feel that going AFK like that was a problem, though. If you at least apologized and explained that you had no idea it would come up, then I guess its fine. If you acted like "its just a game and I'll go AFK if I feel like it whether you like it or not" (and I'm not saying you did, you didn't elaborate much) then people getting angry is understandable.
Quote:
He was a tool, you did just fine. Rule your raid with an iron fist. I get irked when people go AFK but sometimes life gets in the way of a game. It happens. The more mature players will understand this because it'll happen to them eventualy and they'll want you to be understanding.
Well said, that would be my thoughts on the matter also.
You did the right thing man. That will be his lesson, harsh, but deserved!
Thank you all.
Looking back, I still think I should have kicked him, and the same way I did. It is dishonourable, but the loot was good, as a matter of fact, a priest got his devout chest, called me an ****hole, and then left, same with a warrior and his brand new draconian deflector.
If he had insulted any OTHER raid member, he would have been kicked immediately. I actually beared because I didn't want people to think I was being a dictator of a sort. But at some point enough was enough.
Nevertheless, the root of the problem, IMHO, is the mixing of someone with sound (more or less) logic and judgment with 12-15 year olds, in an environment where you have to give equal importance to all the opinions, when some of them don't really deserve it. Nevertheless, ignoring/sacking that juvenile -who is probably venting his teen frustration- in WoW isn't dealt with like RL.... the example of the incident is relevant.
Would it be "dishonourable" to ground a kid from a "concert" or a "gaming exhibition" he's been looking forward to, because he was being a rude twerp? No... I don't think so.
I understand that I'm not his "guardian", but in any setting, regardless of age, some people end up as "guardians" either moral or practical, and some end up as followers.
It's beginning to take it's toll on me, it was supposed to be taking my mind off things, and enjoyable, but once or twice a week i run into some kid (or adult) and drama ensues.... I don't need that crap.
Just last week, another 13 year old had screamed in IF that I was anti-American, a terrorist, that I should go bomb a country ...etc, which seems silly, but most of the high lvl players actually know that I have Arab origins, and am a muslim. So in the current mindset, atmosphere, it wouldn't be entirely unexpected I guess, for that crowd, to expect me to say something like that.
The reason for this backstab is a disagreement over a crusader enchant, he wanted it for far cheaper than I could afford to make it, so in the end i told him to **** off after he started getting annoying.
I reported him, he got banned for 3 days, but so what? The harm has been done and I'm getting hate-mail lol (believe it or not) in-game.
Edited, Sun Dec 18 22:29:22 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
Looking back, I still think I should have kicked him, and the same way I did. It is dishonourable, but the loot was good, as a matter of fact, a priest got his devout chest, called me an ****hole, and then left, same with a warrior and his brand new draconian deflector.
If he had insulted any OTHER raid member, he would have been kicked immediately. I actually beared because I didn't want people to think I was being a dictator of a sort. But at some point enough was enough.
Nevertheless, the root of the problem, IMHO, is the mixing of someone with sound (more or less) logic and judgment with 12-15 year olds, in an environment where you have to give equal importance to all the opinions, when some of them don't really deserve it. Nevertheless, ignoring/sacking that juvenile -who is probably venting his teen frustration- in WoW isn't dealt with like RL.... the example of the incident is relevant.
Would it be "dishonourable" to ground a kid from a "concert" or a "gaming exhibition" he's been looking forward to, because he was being a rude twerp? No... I don't think so.
I understand that I'm not his "guardian", but in any setting, regardless of age, some people end up as "guardians" either moral or practical, and some end up as followers.
It's beginning to take it's toll on me, it was supposed to be taking my mind off things, and enjoyable, but once or twice a week i run into some kid (or adult) and drama ensues.... I don't need that crap.
Just last week, another 13 year old had screamed in IF that I was anti-American, a terrorist, that I should go bomb a country ...etc, which seems silly, but most of the high lvl players actually know that I have Arab origins, and am a muslim. So in the current mindset, atmosphere, it wouldn't be entirely unexpected I guess, for that crowd, to expect me to say something like that.
The reason for this backstab is a disagreement over a crusader enchant, he wanted it for far cheaper than I could afford to make it, so in the end i told him to **** off after he started getting annoying.
I reported him, he got banned for 3 days, but so what? The harm has been done and I'm getting hate-mail lol (believe it or not) in-game.
Edited, Sun Dec 18 22:29:22 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
He was a ****, but in the end you were the bigger jerk off.
From teh story told you were a poor leader and he lost it. Plain and simple. I would have blacklisted the both of you.
From teh story told you were a poor leader and he lost it. Plain and simple. I would have blacklisted the both of you.
Don't get this the wrong way, but...
Either you play or you don't.
Meaning that if you have to go AFK for a long period of time (like you did), make sure everyone knows and agrees with it.
Writing "AFK a minute, just go ahead and clear" isn't enough when you're the group leader. "AFK a couple of minutes, guys. I have to discuss RL matters with my fiancee. Just go ahead and clear up 'till Drakk, I'll hurry!" would probably be a better description as people know you're not just jerking off, pardon my language.
I've had people go AFK for up to 10 minutes at the time due to smoking. If you can't smoke by the computer, quit smoking or quit playing.
Now, by now you've probably gotten this the wrong way. Real life issues > WoW issues, but when you create a raid and go ahead with it, you make an invisible contract with the people in the raid. Those people are depending on you to be there, playing and doing your part, just like they are. Going AFK half-way through an instance is just mind-numbingly annoying for me, that's why I never ever go in an instance if I'm chatting with someone, planning on chatting with someone, or planning on eating with the family.
I'm sure you weren't expecting your fiancee to come on right when you were raiding, but as mentioned before: put the messenger on "DND" or "Busy" and deal with it *after* the game.
If your fiancee starts ******** about you not responding, have her spell out the tag next to your nick and ask her if she knows what "Busy" means.
Rude, yes, but if she can't respect the tag, just log off.
(Don't, I'm sure you love your fiancee very much and since women can be a little 'wee' don't react like that. But try to tell her that the "Busy" tag actually does mean you're currently busy.)
XFire might help a lot of players who chat with people while playing. It enables a messenger in the game and you can respond and read when people write to you.
Upside: No more alt-tabbing to chat amd missing out on something because of it.
Downside: Contact needs XFire too.
Edited, Sun Dec 18 13:56:06 2005 by Mazra
Either you play or you don't.
Meaning that if you have to go AFK for a long period of time (like you did), make sure everyone knows and agrees with it.
Writing "AFK a minute, just go ahead and clear" isn't enough when you're the group leader. "AFK a couple of minutes, guys. I have to discuss RL matters with my fiancee. Just go ahead and clear up 'till Drakk, I'll hurry!" would probably be a better description as people know you're not just jerking off, pardon my language.
I've had people go AFK for up to 10 minutes at the time due to smoking. If you can't smoke by the computer, quit smoking or quit playing.
Now, by now you've probably gotten this the wrong way. Real life issues > WoW issues, but when you create a raid and go ahead with it, you make an invisible contract with the people in the raid. Those people are depending on you to be there, playing and doing your part, just like they are. Going AFK half-way through an instance is just mind-numbingly annoying for me, that's why I never ever go in an instance if I'm chatting with someone, planning on chatting with someone, or planning on eating with the family.
I'm sure you weren't expecting your fiancee to come on right when you were raiding, but as mentioned before: put the messenger on "DND" or "Busy" and deal with it *after* the game.
If your fiancee starts ******** about you not responding, have her spell out the tag next to your nick and ask her if she knows what "Busy" means.
Rude, yes, but if she can't respect the tag, just log off.
(Don't, I'm sure you love your fiancee very much and since women can be a little 'wee' don't react like that. But try to tell her that the "Busy" tag actually does mean you're currently busy.)
XFire might help a lot of players who chat with people while playing. It enables a messenger in the game and you can respond and read when people write to you.
Upside: No more alt-tabbing to chat amd missing out on something because of it.
Downside: Contact needs XFire too.
Edited, Sun Dec 18 13:56:06 2005 by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Whether I had told people in a PUG the details of my RL to have their approval, and then made them sign an agreement that they wouldnt get pissed: OR whether I had just vanished and just stood there saying nothing, gives nobody the right to use profanity against me.
If he had ******* in a "polite" way, I would have put up with it. Using the words he did, it's basis for banning and casual kicking.
If I'm stuck with a "poor" leader like you call me, I'd shut up and put up or just leave, but sitting there and insulting that leader (or any member in the raid) for over 5 minutes using the most profane words of english... just because he wasn't getting BoK (which could have been dealt with by the other paladins who never buffed) is just not right and demands punishment.
Punishment --> Kick
What if some other kids in the raid are just so politically correct and hate hearing arguing and threaten to leave?
Then everybody would lose because of that idiot's insulting.
So I kick him right before we kill the boss.
End of story.
If he had ******* in a "polite" way, I would have put up with it. Using the words he did, it's basis for banning and casual kicking.
If I'm stuck with a "poor" leader like you call me, I'd shut up and put up or just leave, but sitting there and insulting that leader (or any member in the raid) for over 5 minutes using the most profane words of english... just because he wasn't getting BoK (which could have been dealt with by the other paladins who never buffed) is just not right and demands punishment.
Punishment --> Kick
What if some other kids in the raid are just so politically correct and hate hearing arguing and threaten to leave?
Then everybody would lose because of that idiot's insulting.
So I kick him right before we kill the boss.
End of story.
Quote:
Would it be "dishonourable" to ground a kid from a "concert" or a "gaming exhibition" he's been looking forward to, because he was being a rude twerp? No... I don't think so.
Consider the fact that, as teammate, he contributed to the progress of the raid and in the mentality of wow players this means he has the right to a fair share of the loot.
Unless his actions actually really prove counterproductive as in the extreme of aggroing stuff and being the cause of wipes.
To be honest, I would've just put up with him and after the raid report him to a GM. That'll teach him.
But this really was a judgement call. If I was in that raid I wouldn't hold it against you.
But this really was a judgement call. If I was in that raid I wouldn't hold it against you.
"I have lost my way
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
Quote:
Consider the fact that, as teammate, he contributed to the progress of the raid and in the mentality of wow players this means he has the right to a fair share of the loot.
Unless his actions actually really prove counterproductive as in the extreme of aggroing stuff and being the cause of wipes.
Unless his actions actually really prove counterproductive as in the extreme of aggroing stuff and being the cause of wipes.
Thats exactly my point. For a kid it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you're contributing to the effort. That's like saying that a complete ******* that harrasses women at work, speaks about people behind their backs, bad mouths his superior, and makes life hell for his inferiors, isn't supposed to get fired, as long as he "does his job"
Well that's absurd.
By making a doormat of me for 5 minutes, he screwed up my day, because if it were someone in RL, he would be resting in an intensive care unit by now.
My opinion is that if someone doesn't know the basics of the game, I'd bear with him, we all caused wipes at some point. But rudeness can be just as counter-productive. Gaming is supposed to be a fun experience. And when everybody is tense and pissed because of some jackass insulting and causing commotion, it isn't fun anymore. That's counter-productive enough in my opinion, more than a wipe or two.
And btw, he did get quite some loot up until that point.
Lemme share an example of what went on:
Him: Fu*ck our leader! (yes it started just like that, believe it or not)
Me: huh? what was that mate?
Him: F*uck you! You're a useless fool!
Me: What are you talking about?
Him: Loser, no buffs, no healing, no dmg, nothing!
Me: Mate I was buffing up until we finished the beast, then i said i was going AFK for a few minutes, you guys were doing fine.
Him: F*UCK YOU!
Me: ...... dont insult me or ill boot your *** you idiot.
Him: oh yeah? F*UCK YOU
Then other people jump in the fray: Hey !! shut up all or il lleave me and the healer!!
Me: Ok ok ill ignore him.
Then halfway through Drakk:
Him: LoL! FU*CKING loser. Who made you leader?
I just boot him right then.
Edited, Sun Dec 18 14:49:09 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
Edited, Sun Dec 18 14:57:23 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
7 posts
I see no problem in kicking out a destructive player from the raid but I believe you did three things wrong
1) You the raid leader and went AFK for a good amount of time.
Yes I understand that happening because or RL but if you had to go afk you at least should of give leader to someone else.
2) You gave him no warning that he would be kicked from the raid. All you had to do is say I know you mad at me but let wait till the raid is over and we can talk so we won't disrupt the raid.
3) You should have kicked him before you got to the boss. He was there and might of help the raid get to the boss you acted worse them him in that moment. If you as mature as you say you are you will not kick a person as a way of revenge.
Ok I hope you learn something about your own actions you can never control others reactions just your own in a right or wrong way. Just learn from this and do not worry about what other think. Learning ones owns mistake is a very good thing in the game and more so in RL. None is perfect and all mess up.
1) You the raid leader and went AFK for a good amount of time.
Yes I understand that happening because or RL but if you had to go afk you at least should of give leader to someone else.
2) You gave him no warning that he would be kicked from the raid. All you had to do is say I know you mad at me but let wait till the raid is over and we can talk so we won't disrupt the raid.
3) You should have kicked him before you got to the boss. He was there and might of help the raid get to the boss you acted worse them him in that moment. If you as mature as you say you are you will not kick a person as a way of revenge.
Ok I hope you learn something about your own actions you can never control others reactions just your own in a right or wrong way. Just learn from this and do not worry about what other think. Learning ones owns mistake is a very good thing in the game and more so in RL. None is perfect and all mess up.
1- I went AFK when we were clearing up regular mobs, there was no boss that required ML, or anything that required a "leader" everybody knew their role, I wasn't a healer or a tank, but one of 5 paladins. Meanwhile, I chatted and watched the game at the same time (windowed mode).
2-I did warn him that he'd get booted. I swallowed my rage, but when did so again in the middle of the boss fight, I booted him.
3-It wasn't revenge, it was punishment, I would have kicked him far sooner and easier with no guilt (or this thread) if he had insulted someone else in the raid. I went through all the humiliation of an idiot because I was leader and I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Now learn from your lessons and read peoples' threads carefully.
2-I did warn him that he'd get booted. I swallowed my rage, but when did so again in the middle of the boss fight, I booted him.
3-It wasn't revenge, it was punishment, I would have kicked him far sooner and easier with no guilt (or this thread) if he had insulted someone else in the raid. I went through all the humiliation of an idiot because I was leader and I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Now learn from your lessons and read peoples' threads carefully.
Quote:
"I went AFK when we were clearing up regular mobs, there was no boss that required ML, or anything that required a "leader" everybody knew their role, I wasn't a healer or a tank, but one of 5 paladins. Meanwhile, I chatted and watched the game at the same time (windowed mode)."
Baloney. As you've stated previously you expected to go afk from the Beast all the way to to Drak. That's garbage from any player, especially a leader. From the sounds of it he contributed more to the raid then you did. Sure he was a jerk, but kicking him right before Draks death makes you an even bigger prick.
GregoryTheWatcher wrote:
Quote:
Consider the fact that, as teammate, he contributed to the progress of the raid and in the mentality of wow players this means he has the right to a fair share of the loot.
Unless his actions actually really prove counterproductive as in the extreme of aggroing stuff and being the cause of wipes.
Unless his actions actually really prove counterproductive as in the extreme of aggroing stuff and being the cause of wipes.
Thats exactly my point. For a kid it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you're contributing to the effort. That's like saying that a complete ******* that harrasses women at work, speaks about people behind their backs, bad mouths his superior, and makes life hell for his inferiors, isn't supposed to get fired, as long as he "does his job"
Well that's absurd.
By making a doormat of me for 5 minutes, he screwed up my day, because if it were someone in RL, he would be resting in an intensive care unit by now.
My opinion is that if someone doesn't know the basics of the game, I'd bear with him, we all caused wipes at some point. But rudeness can be just as counter-productive. Gaming is supposed to be a fun experience. And when everybody is tense and pissed because of some jackass insulting and causing commotion, it isn't fun anymore. That's counter-productive enough in my opinion, more than a wipe or two.
And btw, he did get quite some loot up until that point.
Lemme share an example of what went on:
Him: Fu*ck our leader! (yes it started just like that, believe it or not)
Me: huh? what was that mate?
Him: F*uck you! You're a useless fool!
Me: What are you talking about?
Him: Loser, no buffs, no healing, no dmg, nothing!
Me: Mate I was buffing up until we finished the beast, then i said i was going AFK for a few minutes, you guys were doing fine.
Him: F*UCK YOU!
Me: ...... dont insult me or ill boot your *** you idiot.
Him: oh yeah? F*UCK YOU
Then other people jump in the fray: Hey !! shut up all or il lleave me and the healer!!
Me: Ok ok ill ignore him.
Then halfway through Drakk:
Him: LoL! FU*CKING loser. Who made you leader?
I just boot him right then.
Edited, Sun Dec 18 14:49:09 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
Edited, Sun Dec 18 14:57:23 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
What I meant to say was that he DID help the raid fight the bosses and all that. And he did participate in killing the bosses. If he had been booted BEFORE participating in the fight, sure, but he was booted DURING, the fight.
That's what makes it different, receiving his "help" with the boss and booting him before the loot is like hiring and then not paying. You should have fired him before he worked. That's the problem there.
Quote:
Baloney. As you've stated previously you expected to go afk from the Beast all the way to to Drak. That's garbage from any player, especially a leader. From the sounds of it he contributed more to the raid then you did. Sure he was a jerk, but kicking him right before Draks death makes you an even bigger prick.
Yes I expected to be AFK from The beast (as in: AFTER finishing the beast) to Drakk (as in : I'd do Drakk with them)), Drakk is in the next hall with a bridge and regular mobs between, you seem to know very little about the Instance at hand. I did tell the raid that I was going AFK, and that didn't influence the raid, didn't cause a wipe, didn't slow us down (since there were more than enough healers/casters/tanks/dmg dealers).
And yes, he probably did contribute more to the raid than I did. But you see that's hardly the point. Oh wait, you don't see. Well let me re-iterate: No body has the right to insult, specially using profanity, anyone in the raid, it's a clear rule in WoW. If he was so dissatisfied he could have left. Or he could put up. But to insult in the malignant way he did, and when I tried my best to calm him down, he should expect his *** handed to him, and it did happen.
The issue here is the method used. Not if you think I had the right to go AFK or not.
But thanks for your enlightened and highly intellectual input.
Quote:
What I meant to say was that he DID help the raid fight the bosses and all that. And he did participate in killing the bosses. If he had been booted BEFORE participating in the fight, sure, but he was booted DURING, the fight.
That's what makes it different, receiving his "help" with the boss and booting him before the loot is like hiring and then not paying. You should have fired him before he worked. That's the problem there.
That's what makes it different, receiving his "help" with the boss and booting him before the loot is like hiring and then not paying. You should have fired him before he worked. That's the problem there.
You have a point there.
Yet I believe that he had ruined it for himself, I had told him to relax and tried explaining myself, so did some other raiders. He refused and got stuck on his tyrade (which I don't understand). I gave it a little twist by rubbing it in, and kicking him just before drakk died. Yeah, I probably shouldnt have done that, but he should have been polite. I'm not the action, I'm the reaction.
Edited, Sun Dec 18 16:08:00 2005 by GregoryTheWatcher
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