Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Station Cash - Weigh InFollow

#1 Dec 09 2008 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
Special Snowflake
Avatar
****
6,786 posts
Today (December 9, 2008) SOE announced Station Cash. This service allows EQ and EQII players to buy a limited selections of in-game items with real world cash. John Smedley, CEO of SOE, posted on the EQII forums:
Quote:

Just to be clear here - We aren't allowing RMT (i.e. players selling items to each other for real money) on servers other than the existing Live Gamer enabled servers. What I said still stands.


What do you think?

What do you think about Station Cash?
Fluff for cash, yay!:9 (11.2%)
I'm not sure it's a good idea, but I can live with it.:17 (21.2%)
Call it RMT or Microtransactions, it's still Evil.:32 (40.0%)
This is a game breaker for me. Want my stuff?:8 (10.0%)
I'm undecided.:1 (1.2%)
I don't care.:13 (16.2%)
Total:80




Edited, Dec 9th 2008 1:29pm by Calthine

Edited, Dec 9th 2008 1:30pm by Calthine

Edited, Jan 7th 2009 5:57pm by Calthine
____________________________
[img]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/calthine/EmptyMind-2.jpg[/img]
Community Manager | QA Lead
ZAM: Support FAQ | Forum FAQ | Forum Rules
Cook Ten Rats
#2 Dec 11 2008 at 4:54 AM Rating: Decent
26 posts
What a ridiculous new release! Call it whatever you want; however, the obvious fact remains that SOE is trying to take grasp of an ever growing to avoid the economic disasters of EQ1. This is a just another transparent attempt to get money out of the game. I am certain that some like it and will use it, thus making SOEs ploy semi-succesful.

Flame away,

Gynx
SK
#3 Dec 11 2008 at 4:55 AM Rating: Decent
26 posts
errr...take grasp of an ever growing economy...

Gynx
#4 Dec 11 2008 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
a lot of people on the SOE forums are up in arms about this. A great many of them see the potential for abuse here, and I don't blame them.

I think my problem is that the introduction for this was VERY sudden. As for the statement 'in response to user surveys' ... WHAT surveys? I took the one they just announced, and I don't recall seeing ANYTHING about this...

I guess I'll take the same approach here that I do towards LoN. I didn't ask for it, so I don't play it. If some people do, that's great. If I get a loot card and it's something I think is fun, I'll redeem it. Will I buy boosters? Not likely.

The only thing I DON'T like is the concept of 'gifting' Station Cash... Currently, you can only fund YOUR account, and the items can only be purchased by YOUR characters. Fine. But if you start getting into gifting (especially for gameplay time or game-affecting items) what's to stop people from saying 'help me defeat this epic for my quest and I'll send you 10,0000 Sony Cash' ... THAT'S got me a little concerned. If SOE makes the items NO TRADE, NO VALUE (and preferably non-gameplay affecting) that should help.

Will I be quitting EQ2? No. Now, if they start making gameplay affecting items (other than the current potion offerings) a part of the marketplace, or make it a requirement to use the marketplace in order to access game content, I'll have to rethink that.
#5 Dec 11 2008 at 8:16 AM Rating: Decent
If a lvl 80 could buy legendary or better equip with this I'd be 100% against it but as long as its just "fluff" i'm all for people wasting their money on it. I was upset when I logged into EQ1 and saw the gear you could buy for $10. Even though I havent played in 3 years I still spent alot of time getting my wizard geared up in EQ1 and the thought that you can just buy gear comporable to it now is pretty sad. Part of that games charm is just how much work is always required to get anything and the feeling of accomplishment that came with it.
#6 Dec 11 2008 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
With the exception of the "ninja" implementation.. I don't mind the Marketplace in its current form. I understand people's concern about the direction it might go.. But, I'm one of those people that don't worry about something unless its for sure.

Otherwise, its just fluff and another option to get exp pots for people who either haven't received vet rewards yet or used all theirs up. I spent $60 so far and am pretty satisfied with the items I've purchased.

As long as it remains fluff I'll have no problem with SC.

Edited, Dec 11th 2008 4:58pm by SpyderBite
#7 Dec 11 2008 at 11:40 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
4,445 posts
Just when I thought about coming back to the game. No thanks BLizzard FTW.
____________________________
Hi
#8 Dec 12 2008 at 12:13 AM Rating: Excellent
Special Snowflake
Avatar
****
6,786 posts
Um. Blizzard is doing it too.
____________________________
[img]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/calthine/EmptyMind-2.jpg[/img]
Community Manager | QA Lead
ZAM: Support FAQ | Forum FAQ | Forum Rules
Cook Ten Rats
#9 Dec 12 2008 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
*
69 posts
I don't see any sales from player to player in this, er, update. Player to player sales are what drive the exchange servers.

Here we are given the OPTION, the CHOICE to purchase fluffy items that marketing weenies deem fun. We are not being forced to participate.

WE are NOT auctioning items in the marketplace to other players. It is pretty incredible that the majority of the 'sky is falling, I Quit, you betrayed me' folks have not figured that out.

I'm sure that the Lemming Leaders are snickering to themselves about how easy it is to dictate mob mentality.

I find such cyber mob mentality just as disgusting as the cyber raping of virus/trojan, etc. writers.

/steps off soap box and heads for the forge

#10 Dec 21 2008 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Um. Blizzard is doing it too.


/chuckles

I wish more people would pull their heads out their holes in the sand and realize this too. All games are going RMT.. whether that be Game to Player, Player to Player, or both.. it depends on the game.

Instead of threatening to quit a game.. their threat would have more merit if they threatened to quit gaming.
#11 Dec 21 2008 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
This is a just another transparent attempt to get money out of the game.


Why wouldn't they want/need to make more money out of the game? They're a business after all. Raising monthly subscription prices only adds a hard set amount of income in to the monthly revenue. Whereas, something like this introduces a "skies the limit" income in to the revenue. Which means more funds to produce a better product.

Quote:
I am certain that some like it and will use it, thus making SOEs ploy semi-succesful.


But, as Cal pointed out, since all games are introducing this concept in to their games or are in the process of doing so, wouldn't this be saying that of the entire gaming industry?
#12 Dec 31 2008 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent
I know some people may like this. Some people are unsure if its going to be ok and some people don't really care. So I respect all their opinions but here is why I think this will ruin the game.

I play the game to have fun and quest to get stuff thus the name "EVERQUEST". I also am on hard times right now and its nice being able to have everything anyone else has in the game all I have to do is quest.

By introducing the purchasing of stuff into the game it has opened a flood gate to make this like reality by allowing people with extra means to show off and get nice looking stuff that I can't because I can't aford too. This makes me feel a sense of unfairness in a "GAME".

TRUE STORY! I had 5 guys who play WoW at work convenced to come do the free play time to try and bring them back to EQII. They then came up to me and asked about this station cash not even knowing what it was called and all said SOE screwed themselves. I had them convenced to come back with all the new content over the past 3 expansions.

First look at how hard some people have worked at making their houses and guild halls look awesome with quested or in game plat they earned. Now someone will be able to buy something with real cash can get a nicer throne or wall piece that the person who worked hard and can't aford to buy station cash can't buy and touch up thier room? IS THAT FAIR GAMING?

Here is a warning to all that think this is NO BIG DEAL ITS ONLY FLUFF. What is going to happen IF this SOE Experiment works is and you can quote me.
Fluff will turn into items that makes raids go easier or experience move faster or the armor is just as good as raided armor. If you want proof they already have experiance POTs for sale.

I plead to you to consider your actions and your thoughts not on how it affects the game now but how it will in the future when Smedley has been fired and replaced by a Sony robot from Japan. Also the FUTURE of all gaming! If this is a success in EQII it WILL go to ALL games MMO and not MMO. OH how? Say when Call of Duty 6 comes out in a few years if you want the B2 Bomber you need to pay for it. Get the idea?

I now plead to you NOT to use even the free station cash that has been given to you! Don't allow this to change the face of all gaming so those with extra means to have an advantage over you in gaming now. We already have to contend with them having better computers!

Edited, Dec 31st 2008 10:23am by gotoman
#13 Dec 31 2008 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
FYI, I play WoW some too and NO THEY ARE NOT DOING THIS SO WHO Says Blizzard is doing this is incorrect! Only games like Second Life is doing this and that game if I am not mistaken Is based on that premous.
#14 Jan 07 2009 at 3:16 PM Rating: Default
Message has high abuse count and will not be displayed.
#15 Jan 07 2009 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
I halfway feel like I should care more about this but I just can't get worked up over it!

At the moment, it's also a huge topic over on the O-Forums for Turbine's LotRO (where I have been spending the bulk of my online time lately) primarily because Turbine is in the process of hiring a new manager to run an RMT dept. To put it mildly, there are more than a few people there who are freaking out! But I still can't seem to get my panties in a bunch over it...

I just don't see the issue... we're not talking about power leveling or rl cash for ingame gold, we're talking about people being able to buy house items, cosmetic (non-stat) clothing & armor and other (non-game-breaking) fluff items with real world cash.

Near as I can remember, historically, the bone in everyone's throat was that RMT was bad because it potentially fostered an environment in which players would be in a position to wield a powerful tool (ie: a high lvl or lvl capped toon) without having learned how to properly use that power. And I get that. But two factors here don't mesh with the way things used to be.

First and foremost, we're talking about fluff! Nothing game breaking... hell, technically this stuff isn't even "game affecting"!

And second, the game is no longer as "high risk" as it used to be and the ramifications of grouping with someone who doesn't know squat about playing their toon are no longer as meaningful as they once were.

Hang with me for a sec here... way back when - back in EQ Live, if you found yourself in a high level PUG where lets say the cleric was a recent graduate of Ebay, you were likely in for an evening rife with costly and stressful corpse runs. Not my idea of a good time, I'll grant you, but it's a brave new world and there are no more corpse runs so here in EQ2 the worst you are likely to suffer from the above example is a short term cash short fall and a name added to your ignore list.

And we're not even talking about that level of abuse... we're talking about fluff!

So help me out here... clue me in... why should I be upset if Johnny can use his mom's Visa card to buy a baby dragon (which by the way I could do now just by purchasing a copy of the original collectors box for 10 or 20 bucks in the close out bin at my local game store!)
#16 Jan 08 2009 at 5:17 AM Rating: Excellent
OldBlueDragon wrote:
So help me out here... clue me in... why should I be upset if Johnny can use his mom's Visa card to buy a baby dragon


Well, because it's not the baby dragon that everyone is worried about. The concern is that the mechanism has been put into place, with 'fluff' items being the initial offerings to placate people and get everyone acclimated to the idea of in-game RMT, and that eventually it will escalate to it's originally intended end-game - game advantage items, usable gear, etc. The problem isn't what was offered now, the problem is what will be offered later once everyone has just accepted RMT as "part of the game". Your right, we're not talking about RL cash for in-game cash or gear or what have you...yet.

They've said that station cash will always be as it is today with similar offerings..but it's still a business. That word only lasts until they see certain metrics or there is a changing of the guard in management.
#17 Jan 08 2009 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
Stugein wrote:
OldBlueDragon wrote:
So help me out here... clue me in... why should I be upset if Johnny can use his mom's Visa card to buy a baby dragon


...They've said that station cash will always be as it is today with similar offerings..but it's still a business. That word only lasts until they see certain metrics or there is a changing of the guard in management.

So ultimately, you're ready to punish them now for a paradigm shift which may or may not occur at some undetermined point in time because if and when it does occur will be harmful to your level of enjoyment ingame. Do I have that part right?

And if the escalation does occur, how do "game advantage items, usable gear, etc." affect you personally? Given that you and the players on your friends list do not partake of these short cuts, how does the moral weakness of other players adversely effect your gaming experience? Also how do you know (or on what basis do you infer) that these "game advantage items, usable gear, etc." are, in fact, the company's "originally intended end-game".

My position here is not to challenge the negative validity of RMT (I agree that it is an immoral practice) but to question the ultimate effect it would have in a modern casual MMO like EQ2. It is my belief that times and circumstances have changed so that this "ancient evil" no longer carries the degree of import it once did.





Edited, Jan 8th 2009 9:23am by OldBlueDragon
#18 Jan 08 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
In-line, in bold.
OldBlueDragon wrote:
Stugein wrote:
OldBlueDragon wrote:
So help me out here... clue me in... why should I be upset if Johnny can use his mom's Visa card to buy a baby dragon


...They've said that station cash will always be as it is today with similar offerings..but it's still a business. That word only lasts until they see certain metrics or there is a changing of the guard in management.

So ultimately, you're ready to punish them now for a paradigm shift which may or may not occur at some undetermined point in time because if and when it does occur will be harmful to your level of enjoyment ingame. Do I have that part right?

I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt there. I believe the intent from the get-go was to let the mechanic settle into the community consciousness before introducing an escalating variety of items to include game advantage items and gear to varying degrees of value. I am attempting, however, to take those in management that have spoken out at their word that this will not be the case. Unfortunately knowing how the corporate business world works - that word can't be reasonably expected to be anything but flimsy and completely subjected to the whims of whatever their latest metrics powerpoint says. Not a personal slight on anyone involved, just business reality as I've experienced it.

And if the escalation does occur, how do "game advantage items, usable gear, etc." affect you personally? Given that you and the players on your friends list do not partake of these short cuts, how does the moral weakness of other players adversely effect your gaming experience?

This wholly depends on what those items end up being. LoN items have progressed to damage shields, complete heals and power regens. If that's as far as it ever goes..no big deal I suppose. If people can begin buying gear that rivals dungeon drops or quest rewards..I can certainly see why folks would get peeved. No, /I/ won't be doing it, but it's a community game with no small amount of competitive aspects associated with it and as go the players, so goes the server (balance, economy, and more). The arguments against it are no different than the arguments against buying/selling items and gear through 3rd party "illicit" RMT brokers. Having the 'SOE Official Stamp of Approval' doesn't change any of those ramifications. At best it lessens the chance that folk who do partake of such a service get scammed.

Also how do you know (or on what basis do you infer) that these "game advantage items, usable gear, etc." are, in fact, the company's "originally intended end-game".

See the first paragraph. :) "Know"? I don't. It's a belief based on both past history and experience in seeing how corporate management functions. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. We'll likely never know. Too difficult to prove a negative like that. Suffice to say I wouldn't be shocked to see just that scenario play out down the road.

<snip>It is my belief that times and circumstances have changed so that this "ancient evil" no longer carries the degree of import it once did.

An ill that people have gotten used to is no less a detriment to those it affects. I liken what you say here to that of people who stopped complaining about spam in their in-box and just hit delete because they're so used to receiving it by now. It's cost to the receiver or their ISPs haven't changed and it's still just as intrusive as ever - but apathy has taken over.

Similarly, a few years ago the idea of in-game RMT in a for pay game would've been fought by the players with a furor that pales in comparison to what we've seen today with Marketplace. But then enter more giveaways. Enter more promotions. Enter magazine items. Enter LoN and 'loot cards'. All, intentionally or not, get people numb to the idea of in-game items for real money as just "part of the game". Enter Marketplace. See, the argument against it now is the same as it would've been a number of years ago..but there's that trained apathy, creepin' up on us again.

How does it go? "All that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"? Some folk still care. Frankly it doesn't affect me too terribly. If I end up being right, I'm gone. If not, I'm good. A game's a game to me. No huge personal attachment. All I'm trying to get across is that the folks who are really up-in-arms about this, do have valid complaints. The arguments against in-game RMT do not change just because it has an official name and we personally know and like the company employees.

#19 Jan 09 2009 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
**
316 posts
If Station Cash was being introduced into a game that didn't already have a monthly fee, I might feel differently, but this just feels like a money grab at players who are already paying their $14.99/mo.

Yes, the items available for SC are "fluff". Then again, so are the vast majority of things that are crafted by Carpenters. In years past, many of those "fluff" items would probably have been introduced into the game as crafting recipes. But hey, why should in-game players be able to sell these items for in-game cash when SOE can sell them outside of the game for real-life cash? Everybody likes the Frostfell crafted items - maybe next year new holiday goodies will only available with Station Cash.

Might Station Cash (or it's other MMO incarnations) end up hurting the crafting aspect of this and other MMOs in the long run? Where's the incentive for a company to add "fluff" recipes into a game when developers can sell the end products directly for a buck or two?
#20 Jan 15 2009 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
****
4,445 posts
Price of some of that stuff is nuts. $10 for 50% more AP exp... no thanks.

To me its more then fluff items since I see alot of exp potions in there. Fluff items are lag pets (pets that do nothing but slow down other uses in the area), armor with no stats, house pets, etc.

Pretty crappy IMO. Then SOE wonders why there games are losing people.
____________________________
Hi
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 87 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (87)