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Your thoughts on changes.Follow

#1 Jun 15 2006 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
Well now that everyone has had a day to try out the new changes and the adventure pack if you have it I was wondering what everyone thought about it.

I did not go to the new areas in the adventure pack due to anticipation that they were going to be crowded on the first day it was out. Instead I went harvesting for my Provisioner. Overall I was happy. The ability to pull up to 5 items at a time and the fact that you do not fail on stuff you have outleveled helps out alot. If you are harvesting stuff below your level I wouldnt get the tools. The lack of failures makes it so that you harvest fast anyways and you spend alot more time looking for the spawns then harvesting them. This also may be attributed to it being alot more crowded yesterday.

I also expect to see the price of some rares drop quite a bit as I harvested for 45 minutes and ended up with 4 rares.

After ending up with a couple stacks of everything I jumped on my provisioner. The new system is nice. Being 39 when I started it was nice to be able to just create the 3hr drinks with stats without having to make all the subcombines. Only new part to provisioner is that you now use materials from other harvests other then the garden and trap. They need loam and roots for most drinks. Also drinks are made in 2's rather then one at a time. Granted I heard that lvl 60 plus was already this way but it was new to me. :P

So what did all of you think of the changes?
#2 Jun 15 2006 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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Only logged on for a short time.

Like the improvements to the broker system. Much more functional, plus I get to use my vault space in my room for actual storage rather than selling.

As a ranger I have heard nothing but gloom and doom on how LU #24 was the final slap in the face for the class. Frankly I didn't see much of a problem at all.

I haven't checked out Fallen Dynasty yet mainly cause I am lvl 46 and probably too low for the content.
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#3 Jun 15 2006 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
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I've not really had much time to play around with the changes, and really haven't made anything... however, I'm not that happy to tell the truth coming from a WS PoV.

I checked out some of the base stats for the weapons I could make, and it seemed like they had REMOVED a good amount of the stats that actually made the weapons useful. They did up the rating a little though... but that isn't a fair trade imo. I'll have to gather some rare matts (which should be easier now with the new system of pulling up multiples which I DO like) and see how much the pristine stats change from the shaped stage (2nd and 4th "stage" of creation, not 100% sure on the names though) but from past experiance the weapons haven't gained stats, but rather had what they had already re-distrubited and upped in number.

Like for example (just pulling numbers outa my ***) say in the shaped (2nd) stage a weapon has like 10 power and 7 health (which is actually close to what i'm looking at now compared to having stats like AGI and STR and such before...) and in the pristine (4th) stage it will have like 15 health and 13 power.

Like I said I haven't actually made anything yet since I had a limited time and I didn't make a mad dash to harvest matts, just the oposite I used up ALL that I could before the revamp since I figured TS exp would be harder to get now (may or may not be right on that) so I figured i'd get every ounce I could outa them. I'll have to make some things and see for sure, but so far it isn't looking good... I'll be sure to post back here when I do make some stuff finally... but like I said, i'm not holding high hopes.
#4 Jun 15 2006 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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I didnt get to check out too much except for the broker system. As soon as I figured it out, I was in heaven. Sooo much easier to find things, and I cut my time in half when putting things up for sale. One thing I noticed was when putting items up for sale in your house, Sony has given each item an estimated price, like WoW does for the AH. I noticed if you put your item up for more than the est price, the yes tag turns white. If you underprice it, its red. It doesnt do much, but I was content I actually figured that out.

The other thing I loved was when searching for other items up for sale, you just highlight the item in your bank and click one of the tabs to search. Instead of having to write in the item, it automatically looks it up for you. Big time saver right there.


My monk got fear last night, and because the broker system is so new as well as a bunch of monks now getting this, Ill most likely be stuck with App 2 for awhile. But I did try it out and it worked on a lvl 68 heroic mob with an App1 so yay.

Havent gotten the adv pack yet, but I plan on it this weekend. Cant wait to check out the new areas. Overall Im pleased with what Ive seen so far.
#5 Jun 15 2006 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
DSD wrote:
The other thing I loved was when searching for other items up for sale, you just highlight the item in your bank and click one of the tabs to search. Instead of having to write in the item, it automatically looks it up for you. Big time saver right there.


One heck of a big time saver, and one that was long overdue!

Unfortunately, soccer has kept me occupied yesterday but I'll check out the changes today.

But what I've read so far sounds good to me actually, I might even start crafting seriously now.
#6 Jun 15 2006 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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I did some harvesting for my alts in Ant and TS. I like the new speed.

Common crafted gear items were always mainly vendor fodder, with the possible exception of imbued versions. They are even more so now.

I also see rares are much less rare now - and to compensate some of them aren't as good as they used to be. Cobalt armor got a severe nerf, not just on the rarity issue but because it was too close in quality to raid drops from T5 (yes, the previous tier.) Raiders cannot abide the common people running around in gear as nice as theirs, and even worse do not want to be "forced" to purchase it to have the best item in each slot. Heresy. /rolls eyes

Some lower tier weapons I've seen actually got better, but dropped and quested weapons have always squashed the desirability of weaponsmith made items and still will. This is the worst in T7, but lower levels are approaching T7 in that regard. The gear they're adding as quested and drops as they revamp the lower zones (CL and Nek this time) totally blow away anything we can make. It doesn't look good. The only thing that gives me hope is the adornments system they're planning for EoF.

Ultimately, the price on rare items will go down quite a bit. They will be nothing special, just someting you might use to get by with a small upgrade until you can get that drop you really want.

Quote:
One thing I noticed was when putting items up for sale in your house, Sony has given each item an estimated price, like WoW does for the AH. I noticed if you put your item up for more than the est price, the yes tag turns white. If you underprice it, its red. It doesnt do much, but I was content I actually figured that out.


That's actually the amount an NPC merchant will give you for the item. Unless you're feeling generous there's no reason to sell it on the broker for less. ;)
#7 Jun 15 2006 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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ahhhh, cool! That makes a lot of sense, and now I can see if I would get a better bargain selling stuff via the broker or a vendor. Thanks for clearing that up!
#8 Jun 15 2006 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
Well I finally got around to putting up my items for sale at lunch and I found my biggest pet pieve with the new changes so far.

I can not search for drink by level. Searching for drinks 40+ turned up nothing. So I thought I was only person to have them up at the time. Of course that couldnt be right so I just searched for drinks periond and all the level ranges are up there there is no way other then paging through all the pages to figure out what prices are on the specific level range you are selling or buying.
#9 Jun 15 2006 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
I jumped on last night after our download (I'm in dialup hell so download took ALLL day.) I got engrossed in all the quests in Shin Village I really didn't get a chance to try out harvesting. I was too busy picking up the neat quest rewards., i.e. goodies for your house! I was trying to complete the tradeskill quest (I posted a question on this forum about it)so I'm anxious to get home from work today and try out the new tradeskill changes and try some harvesting while I'm at it, and check out the new broker system.

I like the look of the new zones. I only looked around in Shin and Mystic Lake so I'll be anxious to explore the other areas too.

The only thing I wasn't pleased with was the T1 advanced books that I had no longer exist. I paid a pretty good price for these books. so that sucks.

I know alot of people are unhappy with some of the changes and happy with others, but I guess you can't make EVERYONE happy.
#10 Jun 15 2006 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
Perhaps a good idea for another update would be to increase the stacks for harvested items. Getting a stack of 50 is pretty easy now, with a bit of luck you can have that in 10 harvests.

The broker system is much better than it used to be, especially if you want to sell something. Although some people don't really get it I suppose, after all, selling an item for less than what the system itself says isn't smart. But I've seen items sell for slightly less.

Maybe they thought that they would definitely sell their item then, they most likely aren't wrong though but still.

#11 Jun 15 2006 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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I logged on for a bit and did some crafting this afternoon. Since I am lvl 46 adventure and was only lvl 7 Artisan I decided to try it out, went from lvl 7-10 pretty rapidly (rest xp).

Gather resources was less time consuming which was nice because before it was all most pure drudgery.

No more subcombines is just great. Really makes crafting much more accessible.


Very cool changes to crafting.

Overall I have nothing to ***** about.

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#12 Jun 15 2006 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
That's actually the amount an NPC merchant will give you for the item. Unless you're feeling generous there's no reason to sell it on the broker for less.


I'm wondering which NPC price this is based on. The crafting house vendor and harbormaster at QH give higher prices than the merchants in city villages. Must check this out.

Been doing Tier 7 crafting for a while now and it's definately a lot easier but more just a mechanical process now. Not quite as interesting without the *logical* subcombines. However the trade off is we can make a lot more items in the time.

When I first read about the new selling system, it seemed you had to set it up at the broker so I was pleased to discover you can do it right in your room. Some folks were trying to drag the boxes straight from vault to the selling slots, but you have to place everything in inventory first.

All seems good to me so far Smiley: smile
#13 Jun 15 2006 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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I have been having repeated trouble with my bags though. Everytime I log onto the game some one of my bags has been entirely emptied into my 'overflow' slots. Sometimes I can't get it out of my overflow slots and back into the bags.
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#14 Jun 16 2006 at 12:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Overall, I like the changes, with the exception of them tinkering with summoners. The one thing I did notice about the changes to the armor, are that, while they dropped the mitigation on them, especially cobalt, they also added better stats to each piece. Each piece now has str,agi, and sta. Where as before, they had mixed stats, some with int, and so on.
#15 Jun 16 2006 at 7:56 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
When I first read about the new selling system, it seemed you had to set it up at the broker so I was pleased to discover you can do it right in your room. Some folks were trying to drag the boxes straight from vault to the selling slots, but you have to place everything in inventory first.


This is new to me. How do you do it from your residence? I noticed that the bulletin boards are useless now, so how do you pull up the broker to set up your selling inventory?

TIA
#16 Jun 16 2006 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Overall changes are ok.
I like the new broker system to put your stuff up for sale. Only thing I find annoying though is when looking up items to see for how much they sell to give you an idea, window shows the price of the item INCLUDING the broker fee, which means that to stay competitive you have to basically take off 20% of the price of said item all the time.

AP is good. There is stuff for everyone. Solo, group, group instances, epicX2 zone and epicX4 zone. The solo instances you can do in the tower are ok I guess - timed run (a templar's worse nightmare). Once again SOE privileges classes that can actually do damage. In fact, for some classes, we found out it was much easier to do those trials in groups in the heroic version. They are much easier and give more tokens (that can be used to buy titles).

The instance found at the bottom of Forsaken city is extremely challenging. It is also a zone needed to unlock the higher raiding zone of the AP and my guess is you practically need a perfect set up group to be able to go through that zone.

Fairly neat so far. AP is much better than the 1st one was, and seems about as good as splitpaw was. I prefer the quests in this new one though.
#18 Jun 16 2006 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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shadowrelm wrote:
well, i dont do crafting, so, no comment there. and untill they start making crafted items as good as drops, i dont really see any reason what so ever to do them, nor wear them. but thats just me, to each his own.


My problem with that argument is that there are a lot of crafting abilities that have nothing to do with gear but are highly in demand. Provisioner / Woodworker / Carpenter / Alchemist / Jewelcraft just to name a few are tradeskills that don't really have any drops to compete with them, but are in demand.

While crafting is not for everyone admittedly, it is a huge chunk of the game since you can lvl it 1-70 just like adventure. There are quests thatt centre around it etc. I ran around last night and went from lvl 7 Artisan to lvl 12 Scholar and had a fun time. Also a nice break from the grind that you seem to hate so much.
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#19 Jun 16 2006 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm wondering which NPC price this is based on. The crafting house vendor and harbormaster at QH give higher prices than the merchants in city villages. Must check this out.


It's the highest price you can possibly get from an NPC, like the innkeeper in your home town or the wholesaler in your tradeskill instance.

In case you don't know what wer're concerned about here: Some merchants give less for items than others. NPC's anywhere outside your city walls will give you the least coin for your stuff. I avoid selling to them unless I really need to free up space. In places you had to earn faction to get into, like Splitpaw or a Maj'Dul court, the NPC's will be more generous.
#21 Jun 16 2006 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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I dig what you are saying.

The whole crafting vs raiding for gear is one of those hot button topics. Crafted goods need to be good enough to be worth crafting. However you want Raid goods to be better in order to encourage people to participate in that aspect of the game.

As to crafting and opinions about the game it really boils down to what people are looking to get out of the game. Personally I enjoy fleshing out a character. I like knocking out a language quest so my character can speak/understand another language. I like being able to craft and profit from it, to be able make useful things for guildies. I like getting achievement points from exploration and questing.

I think thats what irked me about WoW. WoW has an impressive end game raid set up. However that was it. Raiding and itemization are the alpha and omega of end game wow. Crafting was barely worth mentioning.
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#23 Jun 16 2006 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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The thing with the whole raid vs crafted gear I think they could have handled better... instead of giving an outright nerf to crafted gear why not just change the stats on the raid gear to buff them up? I'm sure they could make it so if they wanted to the stats on the "old" raid items would update to whatever they set the "new" items too. Oh well
#24 Jun 16 2006 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not saying there isn't a problem.

I am saying you are arguing from a position of ignorance SR. You are inflating a lot of the issues, glossing over a lot of the facts and in the end you misrepresent the problem.



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#25 Jun 16 2006 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
but, i own a real house. the last thing i want to do is play house in a game. woodworking and carpenter have real live negative connotations for me. it is something i would run FROM, not towards.


Actually Woodworkers make wooden weapons (clubs, staves and pikes), totems (i.e. potions), wands, bows, ammo (arrows and thrown), shields and instruments (which have no use in game ATM). They make the new harvesting tools now as well, since LU24.

As a crafter I would like to feel needed. I don't want to make tons of money, I just want to be able to make things that people want. When DoF came out with it's really nice Cobalt gear and imbued weapons were introduced we were in our heyday. Then certain raiding people whined and we've been nerfed to a position worse than we were in before.

It appears the devs want to make crafting less an integral part of the game and a source of good gear and more of a sideline hobby to while away a few hours of solo time. Having played since launch and leveled to 70 mostly when it was truly long, slow road to hoe, it feels like a betrayal. Especially as it was the devs position at launch that crafters would produce some of the best weapons in the game.

There are many ways they can save weaponsmiths (and to a slightly lesser extent, armorers).

Allow us to customize weapons

Let us make ultra rare weapons out of all rare raws that are of Fabled or near Fabled quality.

Let us make fabled weapons out of raid dropped items like dragon teeth.

Give us a consumable like the sharpening stones they have in WoW. (Really burns me that they made thrown weapons attractive to make and use then gave them to Woodworkers. Wooden shuriken... right.)

Let us specialize in a certain weapon type, or a cultural weapon via a long, involved quest.


Many ways. However we hear nothing at all from the devs in response to "The Weaponsmiths' Lament" Not even a "we're looking into it". I still really like this game and IMHO it's the best MMO out there now, but I'm getting discouraged about my place as a weaponsmith.

Frankly, the devs have stated nothing at all about the direction they're going with crafting in general. In the face of all the simplification and nerfage that has happened steadily since launch, it's hard to be optimistic without any input from them. The June Producers Letter from Scott Hartsman spoke at length about their LU24 changes to summoners and crowd control abilities, and the future direction for EQ2 developemnt, but did not mention tradeskills even once. As big a part of LU24 as they were, his silence speaks volumes, to me at least.

Thanks for listening to my diatribe. Now go kill something! Preferably with a crafted weapon. :)
#26 Jun 16 2006 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Tomec the Wise wrote:
The thing with the whole raid vs crafted gear I think they could have handled better... instead of giving an outright nerf to crafted gear why not just change the stats on the raid gear to buff them up? I'm sure they could make it so if they wanted to the stats on the "old" raid items would update to whatever they set the "new" items too. Oh well


If my memory serves me right there was an expansion that made some dropped loot better than crafted items. Im unsure if raiding falls into this my memory is foggy, but either way it made the crafters upset. Their beef was why bother making items when others could loot and sell items they got abroad? The last expansion changed that so that most of the crafted items are now better than dropped loot. A lot of my items used are crafted. and before I hit the 60's ALL my gear was crafted. I could never find anything better out there.

So there is a reasoning for crafting if youre into it. You do make a lot of money selling your wares as there are a lot of people out there looking to always upgrade. I personally have never been able to get into it, but then again, Id rather go out and gain my xp as quickly as possible
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