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Cleric/Templar damageFollow

#1 Jan 11 2006 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
Before I begin, let me make clear that I understand clerics and templars are not for DPS. However, as has been said, and as I know to be true, all classes in EQ2 can solo. I haven't been having any real problems, but I AM finding some frustration that improving my DPS could rectify.

My character is currently a 15 cleric, and is going Templar. The first step, and one I'll take as soon as I get the chance, is obvious: Upgrade my attack spells. That's comparitively minor though. I'm finding melee to be actually LESS than useless, and actually harmful, because it breaks the brief stun on Admonishing Smite. As such, my tactic is generally pull with Weakness, start Admonishing Smite, then Radiant Strike, then Admonishing Smite twice, then Radiant Strike (longer cooldown on Radiant Strike) ad nauseum, throwing in a Bestowal of Vitae to make myself effectively invincible against any equal level (non heroic/epic) enemy. I can also kill one level up, if it has at least one downward arrow and I don't get blindsided by an add.

So, my problem isn't that I want to kill things that are too hard. I'm happy with what I'm killing. My problem is that my DPS is so low, and the damage I CAN deal is so expensive, power-wise, that each fight takes ages, and I can't go on to the next without a relatively long recovery period.

I see two possible solutions: Raising my DPS, or raising my power enough to accomodate more than one fight. Any suggestions on these? I'd very much prefer to raise my DPS, since just increasing my power is going to do nothing but allow two fights, and then an even longer resting period.
#2 Jan 11 2006 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
I play a brace of druids (one warden and one fury), who both solo a lot of the time and although we do get a higher rate of DPS than you do... it isn't all that much higher!!!

What I have done and what I would recommend to you is a 4 prong strategy.

1) Make sure all of your damage spells are as high a quality as you can afford to make them. The difference between say adept 1 and adept 3 is substantial.

2) Always keep your armor upgraded to the best you can afford. Usually, that will mean player-made and rare when you can swing it. When you are choosing a piece for upgrade always look for stat boosts in both wis and int. Wis increases your power pool and int increases the amount of damage your DoTs and nukes deliver. And don't neglect the bling bling. An imbued +wis and/or +int ring will make a big difference in your stats.

2) Always eat the best food/drink you can find. Player made drink will shorten your down time between fights and stat foods will give you yet another boost in wis or int... or both!

4) And finally, splurge on a rare imbued weapon every tier. They can be pricey but the difference in base damage output is astounding and the proc is a deal maker!

Both of my druids favor 2 handed weapons instead of a 1 hander & shield, but the choice is yours - either way, buy the best and you'll be mowing down mobs in much less time!
#3 Jan 12 2006 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
Thanks very much. Is it really worth it to buy a weapon at all, though? If I get in a hit for 14 damage (my highest melee, though admittedly with a generic weapon), that means I've broken the stun on Admonishing Smite--so I'm going to get hit for considerably more than 14, most likely. By comparison, if I don't melee, and wait for the cooldown on admonishing smite, I'm dealing more than 20 damage, more than 40 if Radiant Strike came up before Admonishing Smite, and I MAY have avoided a hit--DEFINITELY avoided a hit if it was a mob with a high attack speed.

As for spells, much to my chagrin, Admonishing Smite Adept I was the only one on the broker, for more gold than I have total. Cleric damage books seem not to go up for sale much.

Armor is definitely a weak point, partly due to lack of funds on my part, and partly due to not being willing to upgrade from trash to somewhat less trash--I'd rather get an upgrade that will help me, rather than one that lets me down slightly less.

Total noob question (I bought EQ2 from Direct2Drive, a legal download service, and thus got no manual)--what's this "imbued" you speak of?
#4 Jan 12 2006 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
I think all of your concerns and also your difficulties stem from the same basic situation… That is limited funds and return on your investment.

As you progress in level, the money will get better… I promise! In the mean time, you should be taking advantage of everything you can to bring in money. Are you doing tradeskill gathering quests? They are available from the guy behind the desk in your local tradeskill instance and you should never leave home without one! They are always for 15 pieces of a single common harvestable item, they are repeatable and the payout is cash!

There is also a repeatable quest from the guard at the top of the stairs to Qeynos Castle (assuming here that you’re good). He pays cash for common animals that populate the area of Antonica that lies just outside the North Qeynos gate. There are lots of other good moneymakers but these 2 will get you started.

Remember that with better armor you will be able to take, (or more likely mitigate) damage from the mob, so ignoring him while he is stunned is not really an advantageous strategy. Also, as a healer, you can always choose to self heal instead of casting another DD or DoT for a casting cycle or two spell if the mob is dishing out more than you can handle.

All that said, both my warden and fury are very efficient solo killers. In fact, I think the warden might be better at it than my lvl 36 ranger whose primary function is DPS! With very good armor and bling, a top quality weapon and upgraded spells, my warden almost never dies when soloing and I tend to go after yellow and orange targets, and often grouped mobs with her.

As far as a high quality weapon, yes they are worth it. The difference in damage output is substantial so instead of doing 12-14 damage per swing, you could be doing 20-40 per swing.

Regarding spell upgrades, I know they can get expensive and with healers, I hate to “waste” the free master 2 upgrade you get every 10 levels on a damage spell when there is always a primary heal in the group. You might try visiting the “fence” and buying spells available on the other broker.

(Each city has a black market fence who lists everything sold on the other broker. In Qeynos, he is located in Qeynos Harbor near the outdoor broker.)

And finally, regarding Imbuing, there are rare harvests in each tier that can be made (by alchemists) into an extract, which can be combined with many pristine player-made items to imbue those items. These imbued items all have some additional property that makes them even better. Imbued weapons for example, all feature a proc that will yield a 5% chance to do additional damage during that pulse. This damage can be over a hundred points and since you get the %5 chance with every swing, they can easily pop more than once in a fight. Weapons, shields, rings, and armor (chest and legs), can all be imbued.
#5 Jan 14 2006 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
After further play (level 17 cleric now, work keeps me too busy. :/), upgrading Admonishing Smite helped a lot, but I felt very stupid when I spent ALL of my funds on it, and then got Greater Smite one level later. Nonetheless, my spell damage is quite a lot stronger now.

Meleeing continues to seem unwise. In addition to just the extra damage I take when I break Admonishing Smite (and now Greater Smite)'s pacify, that also leaves them open to interrupt my next spell. At my level, weapons' base damage is typically 3-10. That's for an imubued wand I picked up, following the imbued advice (I swear to god it hasn't proc'd once...). Comparing that to around 40 for Greater Smite and 40+ for Radiant Strike, the interrupt risk really isn't worth it. The damage on a weapon with a max base damage of 10 isn't going to approach my spells at any point.

What's really turned things around are the extra health and mitigation I got from Symbol of Transal and Redoubt at level 16, upgrading spells (thanks for that--the money spent on the weapon I regret, but the money spent on the spells was worth both combined), and making VERY heavy use of heroic opportunities.

I hadn't been bothering with heroic opportunities at all before, but between the buff I get with Inspiring Piety, and damage I get from both Inspiring Piety and Divine Judgement, it's really speeding things up quite a lot.

One thing that doesn't seem to be doing anything at all for me is my shield. I swear, I never block (and I've got the combat log visible at all times). Is there something more to blocking than selecting the shield with the highest shield rating? If it's not blocking, I may as well ditch it for a two handed weapon and see if they do enough more damage to make it worthwhile.
#6 Jan 14 2006 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
At my level, weapons' base damage is typically 3-10. That's for an imubued wand I picked up, following the imbued advice (I swear to god it hasn't proc'd once...).

I'm not positive, (cause I don't use wands), but I think the effect on an imbued wand is always a "clicky". The way these work is you equip them then drag them down to a hot button. When you want to use it in a fight, you right click on the hotbar icon and choose "use". They can be used as often as they recharge.

Sorry I wasn't more clear but when I said weapon, I meant blades, hammers, maces, staves... all manner of conventional weapon... all of these weapons will proc on their own... wands are for finger wigglers!!!

Edited, Sun Jan 15 04:39:35 2006 by OldBlueDragon
#7 Jan 14 2006 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
...I knew I felt silly clubbing gnolls with a wand. :)
#8 Jan 19 2006 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,885 posts
Quote:
...the effect on an imbued wand is always a "clicky".

You are correct, OBD. Just be ready for a very long cast time, almost too long to be viable in battle. Although it can be good to pull, debuff, or land some long-range damage.
#9 Jan 23 2006 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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135 posts
Alcedonia,

I did not see any reference in your posts to the Templar Heroic Opportunity. Are you using it? It has a very quick cycle time, so you can gain a fair bit of DPS if you chain cast it.

The weapon you should be looking for at your level is an "Imbued Blackened Iron Battehammer". After you reach level 20 you want to get an "Imbued Steel Battlehammer". These are player crafted but are not generally available on the broker because of the highly volatile market for "Steel cluster", which is the key ingredient required to make all "Steel" Tier3 armor and weapons. The best strategy would be to mine ore yourself in Thundering Steppes until you get a "Steel cluster" and then commission a weaponsmith to make you the weapon. "Steel clusters" are a rare find so it may take a while to forage one. In the meantime in would be recommended that you forage all nodes and then sell the proceeds on the broker. Some of the provisioner supplies can fetch pretty good prices.

Each Tier has a set of Heavy armor (Templar usable) that is made by an armorer using the common ore for that tier. For Tier3 this common ore is called "carbonite". You should be able to purchase a set of this armor relatively cheaply through the broker or commission an armorer to make you a set (a set comprises of seven pieces: chest, legs, helm, arms, shoulders, boots and gloves). Just make sure that that you are purchasing "forged carbonite". Plain "carbonite" armor is mob dropped and is absolute junk. Some players will try and flog this at the same price as the player crafted "forged carbonite". You can tell the difference when you examine the item. "Forged carbonite" will have lots of stats while plain "carbonite" will only have a much lower mitigation value and otherwise will not have any stats.


#10 Jan 24 2006 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
I have to agree with everything that has been said so far. Personnally I dont use 2-Handed weapons so I try to get ahold of the club made by woodworkers. It has good stats for healer classes but is a little harder to find cuz most of them are busy making boxes and furniture. When you go this way have them make you a buckler as well. Get both imbued if you can afford it. A shield imbue proc does damage to what attacks you 5% of the time and the club has a nice damage proc as well. As for armor get the player crafted at the start of each tier and upgrade throughout to dropped armor if you can afford it. The other imbues that I have used are the legs and chest I always try and have. Legs proc at Heal over time and chest has the same proc as shield if I remember correctly. Correct me if Im wrong OBD.

Make sure you are always using your heroic opportunities. They will add additional damage and the rarer one adds a power regen which will help with down time. You should get into a grove with this. The way I go is pull with a DoT. Start HO. Use the 2 damage spells you have to finish it :P. Then I cast my vitae if needed and repeat. Every second time through I refresh the DoT after the HO. Timing works out to where I am always casting something and the procs off my weapons and armor are nice bonuses.

For down time make sure you are using player crafted food of the tier over you (lvl 20 food for lvls 11-20, 30 for 21-30 ect.) This should cut down on alot of down time.

Also if possible try to focus on the mob types that you have the racial smite for. It may be on a 2 minute timer but it will be the best damage spell you have.
#11 Jan 24 2006 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Correct me if Im wrong OBD.

Well... you asked!

Actually, almost everything you said was spot on.

Technically speaking though, woodworkers are never busy making furnature or boxes since both of those are crafted by carpenters!

Woodworkers make bows & arrows, staves, bo sticks, wands, clubs and totems. We also make paper & quills as well as completing several other basic tasks including prepping raw lumber into boards and such, (a process which, for some obscure reason, carpenters can't manage!)
#12 Jan 25 2006 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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1,885 posts
Woodworkers also make Bard instruments, flute, lute, and guitar. Unfortunately, they are not equipable, placeable, and do not get stat boosts like bandoliers. (several petitions have been sent in)

They can be sold back to the broker, but a profit is realized only if all materials were harvested at no cost. Profit margin is about 3-5s each. :(
#13 Jan 27 2006 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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63 posts
I two-box a templar/dirge often. I also have a level 29 mystic and 20 fury.

I'll just make a few comments. Someone mentioned the HO...soloing and in a two-box group that doesn't need a lot of healing, that is THE dps thing. Run them constantly and fire off your DoT/debuffs when waiting for the HO trigger to reset.

If soloing and wanting max DPS as a templar, find some undead...your big nuke does even more against them..again, HO as often as possible solo.

I have seen clerics take on solo content 6-7 levels above them (late 20's). Its kinda like a pally...takes longer because of lower dps, but the heals keep you in the game longer. A high dps caster has to do it quick or flee, on tuff mobs.

Clerics can be the MT of groups taking on blue/greens. The cleric reactive heal works for his type of armor. (actually Templar type heals are best for mitigating...get hit a lot for a little....vs avoidance...get hit less but for more each hit..types of tanks, if that makes sense).

Try using everything in your ******* against different types of mobs to see what combination works best for you. Pre-buffing with a reactive or two and pulling with the mob divine/melee debuff works well for my cleric. Even pulling with a doll (charm) debuff and following with the cast debuff can really soften a mob.

At low levels for cash? Forage for rares, sell em to high levels twinking their alts...you can do pretty good if you have the patience.

Edited, Fri Jan 27 14:56:05 2006 by cujomatic
#14 Jan 27 2006 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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159 posts
As a 60 templar let me settle the point right away. Even with 400+ wis, even with 4500+ power, even with all your spells maxed out to adept 3, even with all the combinations of whatever you want, not want, feel obliged to have, seen on seomeone else, even by chaining HOs all the way through the batlle, you will still suck at dps. We are not meant for that. You CAN solo allright in an ideal world, but seeing as how you get drained out of ALL your power through one equal con fight, it is nearly impossible to survive any kind of add.

I understood how much i sucked when i figured out my GF's level 28 fury had a nuke that was hitting for twice the damage my best nuke at 60 was doing. I dont remember soloing ever since.

Don't get me wrong, it is totally possible to solo as a templar. You just have to be extremly patient, a bit lucky, and on your toes constantly to avoid adds. I have a level 29 troubador that can survive 2-3-4 adds...it just never happened with my templar, unless i was incredibly lucky.
#15 Jan 30 2006 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
<You CAN solo allright in an ideal world, but seeing as how you get drained out of ALL your power through one equal con fight, it is nearly impossible to survive any kind of add.>

How embarrasing. I pretty much soloed 46-47.5 in SS on Yellow skellies and ghouls. At 46, I can easily take out 50-51 skellies/ghouls. The skeletons take less than 25% of my power. As the HO's roll, my strat is a little different. I do a debuff, the start the HO. Smite for the stun, while that is hitting go for the sword thingy (can't think)or Skeleton master, HUGE damage to undead. Dot, HO,Stun/HO, wash/rinse/repeat. Now if I was attacking dune scarabs it would take longer of course.
I'm not sure what your doing to lose all your power on every fight, but to everyone else, those results are not typical.
*disclaimer* I'm a 60 provisioner, therefore I have some of the best non-fabled gear/weapons.
#16 Feb 13 2006 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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801 posts
I just noticed this post, sorry if no one is listening any more - I hope I'm not necro-posting :P

I solo a lot. This is what I do to maximize my DPS. More DPS is a relative term. I'm not claiming I'm a DPS machine - I still can't solo timed killing quests like the Torrogore - but I'm not really too badly frustrated with the time it takes to kill things. I can kill yellow ^, blue ^^ and green ^^^ (^^^ take up all my power, and they can be close fights.) We do better vs. melee types than nukers.

All my armor, my weapon (battle hammer) and my buckler are rare crafted. Not the best in the game, but good. At my level green and blue solo MoB's can barely hit me with their melee. Less self-healing means more damage-dealing.

Imbued weapon - they will proc at least once per fight and for decent amount of damage - more than what one of your nukes will do.

Imbued buckler - extra damage, again, once per fight and almost a nuke in damage

Imbued leggings - extra damage, ditto above

Note: Imbueing does not give better procs on rare than common. but the armor itself will make a big difference in how you're holding up in a fight.

Spam the HO's, every time. Not only will they increase your damage output, they'll also increase your focus by 25 which means fewer interrupts.

If a fight is going to last longer than a few seconds, hit them with Mark of XXXX and Reproach (lowers mitigation) Your nukes and melee will benefit a little and you'll get fewer resists. If you're figthing something heroic, add in your Involuntary Healer line.

Upgrade your spells. It seems to me that our upgrades increase a bigger percentage of effectiveness than other classes tend to.

Fight undead as much as possible. Your divine nuke does double damage vs. undead. Combine that in an HO with a master strike and your even-con solo enemy will be 2/3rds dead.

You can get potions, totems and gear to increase your INT (more damaging nukes), your Wisdom (more power and resists) and for a damage shield (more DPS).

I don't bother stunning when I solo, it takes too long to cast, and I can get in 2 nukes with an HO in the same length of time.

Hope this helps.
#17 Feb 14 2006 at 7:50 AM Rating: Decent
In a sheer stroke of brilliance I reready my Mark of Kings spell and relized the heal was on me and not them. (I can't believe I read it wrong all this time.) I now pull with that mark and then run through the HOs.
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