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#1 Nov 15 2005 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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I play on Shadowhaven. It's not the smallest server, but it's near the bottom (or so I understand). The population is small enough that it's difficult to form a party to take down a normal Heroic, and if you've got an Epic opponent - well, forget it, unless you happen to manage to tag along on an Uber-guild-sponsored venture (I finished my Greater Lightstone HQ that way). While the towers were being built, an Epic x4 Skeleton named General Do'Uglas spawned by the Bone Lake tower, blocking progress - and he was only taken down by having a Lv. 60 Berzerker come in to tank him, because I simply could not organize even half of a raid suitable to take him down.

Now, none of this bothers me. I knew what I was getting into when I started playing on Shadowhaven, and I solo or duo the vast majority of the time when I play. What bothers me is this:

At least once a day for the past week, I've seen someone shouting LFG in a zone that he either shouldn't be in without already having a group (Lv. 28 "looking for an XP group" in Zek, for example), or in an area where he should be just fine soloing. I see Lv. 11's LFG in the Commonlands so often, it's painful to watch. When asked why they're looking for a group, I get one of two responses.

The first and most common answer is, "I just prefer grouping." While I have no problem with this in principle, I just have to ask, why the hell are these people on a low-population server, on the Freeport side, shouting for a group right after server-up on a weekday? Talk about piling up the strikes against him! The first is a no-brainer - if you want social interaction, go high-population. The second takes a bit more thought - while it's blindingly obvious that the Qeynosians outnumber the Freeporters by a factor of at least 2:1 (and probably at least 3:1) on every server, there's also the fact that the Freeport side is also more likely to appeal to the antisocial type, which further lowers the chance of finding a group. And the third point, with regard to time, should also be a no-brainer, I should think.

But then, yesterday, I got one guy (another Lv. 11 LFG in Commonlands) who insisted that it was, "impossible for a tank to solo."

What? Run that by me again?

No, really. Say it slowly, because I can't believe you said that. My partner runs a Shadowknight, and never once grouped until she got into her 20's. She still stubbornly tries to solo everything she can, and we've grouped briefly for only a few occasions (Fallen Gate springs to mind). Try telling her that it's impossible for a tank to solo. And it would be exactly on point, since the guy doing the LFG'ing and solo-complaining was a Crusader. When I pointed out that fact, he defied me to prove that a tank could: 1.) Solo to 20 without ever dying, and 2.) solo a group of 8 aggro Heroics. What's with these ridiculous stipulations?

And then there's the other type - the ones looking to have their work handed to them - the ones who want to be Powerleveled, but don't want to admit it. The aforementioned Lv. 28 in Zek. A Lv. 20 Necromancer in Nektulos who states plainly that he doesn't do quests, and just wants to grind in groups. A Lv. 11 in Commonlands (again) who wants to join an ORC-HUNTING group.

Again, I wonder: If they're so hot for groups, why aren't they on a more active server? If they're on Shadowhaven because it's an Exchange server, why aren't they playing on The Bazaar, which seems to have at least three times the population that Shadowhaven does...

Or get in an active guild, like the Casual Defective, er, Casual Collective (over 2300 members, and still climbing!), and get groups with similarly-leveled guildmates. Or do SOMETHING other than standing around at the entrance to the zone, spamming chat channels with LFG requests that are going to go unanswered...

I really don't get it. I'd ask for an explanation, but I'm half-afraid that someone would tell me...

Thank you for taking the time to read this rant. Please leave your flames at the door. I have nothing against grouping, and wholeheartedly endorse group activities. I just can't figure out why these self-proclaimed group-oriented people aren't taking the logical steps that would increase their chances of finding groups...
#2 Nov 16 2005 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent

Let me see if I can perhaps answer some of your questions.

Now, granted, I started playing EQ2 only this week but I've played every MMO in existence since UO. Ever hear the old expression "There's nothing new under the sun"? Very apropos in this situation.

First, did it ever occur to you that some folks may not know that The Bazaar is "three times more populated" than Shadowhaven? Whenever I've logged in this week during primetime, they've both said 'Medium' and only Lucan and Antonia (RP servers) and 2 normal servers were at 'high' (with NONE at 'Low'). How is someone supposed to divine that Bazaar is 3 times more populated than Shadowhaven, if they're looking for an Exchange server? If this were DAoC, I'd agree totally with you (since they give specific numbers). But with such murky, questionable categories, I'd have to give a person the benefit of the doubt. But I also have to thank you because I started my characters on Shadowhaven (being the newer of the two Exchange servers) and will now probably look into The Bazaar to see for myself.

Another thing to consider is the type of game you're talking about. That MMO part usually suggests something. For someone who had played EQ1 and then migrated to EQ2, they may think the same "enforced grouping" statutes that ruled the predecessor also rules the descendant. And wasn't that largely the case when the game came out?

A third thing that comes to mind is community. Small servers often have the best, most tight-knit communities. These communities don't build themselves. They often revolve around shared experiences which usually implies grouping together in some form. Also, as you probably remember from EQ1, it was not uncommon for folks to group to xp on mobs higher level than they were (think: PoP's release and later. 60s killing level 62 crystalline golems in PoV and 62+ giants in BoT, courtyards in PoFire, etc). In other games, it's COMMON for folks to XP on stuff higher level than they are.

It usually takes some time for folks to drop the preconceptions they might have learned in other games and adapt to their current game's systems. heh it's probably why I play so many MMOs. I will agree with the person who said they prefer grouping. I think it's more fun and exciting to group up. When I'm soloing (in ANY game), I prefer to control my environment so there aren't any surprises and XP can be gained at a consistent rate. I think everyone does that. But add different personalities, goals, and skill levels and it can get real exciting in a hurry. But that said, I generally don't play games that force me to group (well, 5 years of EQ notwithstanding heh) since that's not always possible. Sitting around with LFG up doing nothing, is not fun (watching TV for that time would probably be more enjoyable).

Personally, I'd never start on a high pop server. I prefer to be in the middle of the pack. Yes, there are some downsides to this approach but generally, the upside (tighter community, generally less asshats, etc) more than makes up for that. What I don't understand is what these people were doing to disrupt your playing? Someone shouting LFG isn't a play disruption (unless they're spamming). So why does it behoove you to be frustrated because of what someone else prefers to do? There are people who roll solo classes and are always trying to get into groups. So what? You could say, "Well, if you wanted to always be in a group, you should've rolled a priest!". Seems like you're saying that if a person wants to group, they should only play on a high population server, on Qeynos side, on a weekend. What if that person is in a different timezone (say, GMT) or works a different schedule so that that time of day is the best time for them to play? To cast aspersions on people (Freeport side is more likely to have antisocial people?) due to their preferences is daft IMO. I have a Dark Elf Priest character. I guess that makes me antisocial (or, more likely to be antisocial, right?).


I guess I just really don't get this rant. Can I rant about people who complain about how bad games perform when they're gaming on 3 year old rigs? Lemme make fun of them because for whatever reason, they can't/won't keep their computers up to date. Or, those people who have more invested in after-market upgrades on their car than the car's actual book value? Maybe a rant on folks who complain about subscription fees and how they can barely afford them.....while playing multiple unrelated MMOs (i.e. no Station Pass)? Or any of a thousand other things that have absolutely no bearing or effect on me whatsoever.
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#3 Nov 16 2005 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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159 posts
Couldnt have said it better Remianen !

I don't understand this rant either. The 'being on FP side shows that the person is more inclined to be antisocial' thing is total BS. What if the only combination of race and class the player really wanted to be was an Iksar Shadowknight ? Should that person have rolled yet another High Elf templar he had no desire to play just in case he would get more groups that way ?
What if the person didnt prepared himself for months before playing the game and has no clue that Freeport will have less ppl than Qeynos ? Maybe the person just looked at an Iksar and said 'Woah these look cool i want to be that !'.

I thik the OP takes too much for granted that everyone will gather all the info about everything about the game and takes in no consideration that there are ppl out there that bought the game thinking it just looked cool, and have no idea whatsoever (just like me btw) of what 'Medium' population on a server means, other than obviously it is less than 'Heavy'. 'Medium' is in no way an indication of how many ppl are playing on that server, on what 'side of the force' they are playing, at what time they are playing mostly etc.

I used to play at server-up. I am on Butcherblock server. It's called a 'medium' populated server. But the hell if i know if my server is more populated than the next 'Medium' one. I was playing at server-up mostly because of my work schedule. Did I got a group everyday ? No. But does that mean that I should have only waited on weekend afternoons to at least try to get one ? Hell no. Ppl like the OP have no right to tell me when to play : I pay as much as them per month to be there, and I have the right to play in my freetime without having them to think I am stupid for doing so...

And what about lvl 11 looking for group in commonlands ? You're going to tell me that there is no content whatsoever for groups in commonlands before level what ? 15 ? 20 ? 11 is ok, sure they won't get to kill all the zone, but there is enough content out there for them to have some fun. Even then, VERY rarely, to the point it is an exception, you will get all members of a group at the same level. So your level 11 ppl could be useful to a level 14-15 group and they can take group mobs together and I really see nothing wrong with that, even less do I see it as a way of getting powerleveled. And with the pace xp is racking in now, they prolly dinged 15 by the time you ended your thread.

I just dont get this rant. I can understand ppl complaining about blind invites and stuff like that. But complaining about ppl trying to find a group just because YOU think the time of day, or even the area they are in is not suitable for grouping ? Nah, if ppl trying to get a group bothers you so much you can always go back to 1 player RPG's or simply disable all means of chat windows you have and/or putting everyone LFG on ignore...
#4 Nov 16 2005 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
I think this looks like a rant on rants.? Whatever it is Rema dnt Tha both get rate ups.
#5 Nov 16 2005 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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1,494 posts
A few random rebuttals.

Quote:
The 'being on FP side shows that the person is more inclined to be antisocial' thing is total BS.


That isn't what I said at all. Quite the reverse. I said that the antisocial, moody, solitary types are more likely to drift towards Freeport, not that Freeporters are all (or even mostly) antisocial, moody, solitary types. Lord knows I don't fall into that category myself.

Quote:
And what about lvl 11 looking for group in commonlands ? You're going to tell me that there is no content whatsoever for groups in commonlands before level what ? 15 ? 20 ? 11 is ok, sure they won't get to kill all the zone, but there is enough content out there for them to have some fun. Even then, VERY rarely, to the point it is an exception, you will get all members of a group at the same level. So your level 11 ppl could be useful to a level 14-15 group and they can take group mobs together and I really see nothing wrong with that, even less do I see it as a way of getting powerleveled. And with the pace xp is racking in now, they prolly dinged 15 by the time you ended your thread.


Maybe I didn't make myself clear there. The people in question weren't soloing while looking for a group. They were standing in one place, shouting for a group every few minutes. If they'd been out questing (or even grinding solo) while occasionally sending out LFG shouts, I probably never would have noticed it, or cared. But when the suggestion was made (After a half-dozen LFG shouts in a short time frame) to the first of these people (the one who was looking for an Orc group at Lv. 11) that he wouldn't have much luck finding a group and that he might want to go solo for a while, he declared that he didn't want to solo. This is at a time when there were all of 12 people in the Commonlands, including both myself and the shouter.

Why would you deliberately put yourself in the worst possible situation for grouping if you wanted to group? A different server, the opposite side of the fence, or a different time of day - any of these could have alleviated his problem. Or a combination of them. But instead of that, he stands at the FP gates, repeating the same message every minute or two to a small and unreceptive crowd...

As I said in the first message, I do understand grouping. I understand LFG. I even understand preferring to group over soloing. I simply don't understand people who put these sorts of obstacles in their own way. Or expect someone else to carry them to do quests or content that they're clearly not up for yet (Lv. 11 looking to kill orcs, Lv. 28 LFG in Zek).

And to clear that last part up: I think a group of 28's could do just fine at the front of Zek. It might be a little difficult, but manageable. But one 28 sitting in Dock shouting for a group isn't looking for anything more than simple Powerleveling.

Quote:
Nah, if ppl trying to get a group bothers you so much you can always go back to 1 player RPG's or simply disable all means of chat windows you have and/or putting everyone LFG on ignore...

Thank you for attempting to marginalize my thoughts. Veiled insults noted and duly discounted. Have a nice day.
#6 Nov 16 2005 at 11:40 PM Rating: Default
rant lfg
#7 Nov 17 2005 at 3:03 AM Rating: Good
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159 posts
First off i want to apologize to the OP : even though i got carried away, mostly because i misunderstood a part of your thread, i never meant to insult you. Here is the part that i misunderstood and got me carried away a bit.

there's also the fact that the Freeport side is also more likely to appeal to the antisocial type

While it may be true that some ppl that fits into that archetype of person in real life DO chose Freeport, you can't know for certain that it's the tendency of the mass. There's 'antisocials' in both cities really, and saying that the Freeport side is more likely to appeal to the antisocial type is not based on anything but a biased idea of yours. Therefore, it is true that on every server there is much more people on Qeynos side, but in counterpart, it does not imply that someone that is more likely to be appealed to the grouping aspect will in most cases chose Qeynos. I think (and really hope !) that most people chose their character based on a race/class combo over the hope of ending up on the server with the less people on on monday afternoon. And even if someone would do all the researches to make sure there wont be too much of a crowd for him/her, it would only be a minority of people.

So all in all what I wanted to say previously is, i dont understand why you have an issue over these people, except for the one thing that i totally and entirely agree with you on : the spamming. Spamming in all forms have no room. Other than that, I think that there are too many factors to take in consideration to really have an issue as a whole.

Low server population ?
-The person is maybe there to be on the same server as a friend.
-The person may be there because he/she has other characters on other servers and wants to try another one, and since he/she has 2 characters level 50+, dont want to spend too much time doing quests already done somewhere else.
-The person maybe picked the server at random since (as of last week) all servers BUT antonia bayle are listed as 'medium' population. Medium does not say if its 100, 1000, 10 000, 100 000 ppl, neither does it say if 82% of the population on that server is Qeynos Based. Medium does not say to most people that The Bazaar server has 3 times the ppl of Shadowheaven because most people do not take the time to verify all of this info elsewhere.

LFG after server maintenance ?
-The person may be working during the evening and go to bed late at night. Due to work schedule, it is his/her peek time to play.
-The person lives in a total different time zone. While for us it may be like 11 am, for him/her it is more around dinner time. The person could have joined an european server ; for some reason he/she didnt do it. After dinner time for that person still is his peek time.

The person is too low level for the zone ?
This is a discutable point. While it is true, even more since expansion, that tanks have more of a hard time tanking orange mobs, healers and dps 3-4 levels lower than average mob can still be very effective, even more if played by a skilled player. While the skills of a level 11 player may be harder to see than at level 28, these can still be very useful to a group, and it does not mean that they are looking for powerleveling. Of course the point takes a whole new look if everything in the zone cons red to the player, then it is different.

A Lv. 20 Necromancer in Nektulos who states plainly that he doesn't do quests, and just wants to grind in groups.

This is the preference and playstyle of the player. Not everyone is interested in questing, some people just want to get to 60 as soon as possible and get into a raiding guild and have all the uber fabled/mythical gear on them. It still does not imply they are looking for powerleveling, just to achieve their goal as soon as possible, just as a quester would require the help of someone else to take a tougher mob to complete the quest. Also, as another poster said, you have the player that comes from some other game, where grouping is totally necessary after level 20 *cough* FFXI *cough* and comes into this game not totally informed, thinking it still works the same.

This is the post i should have sent first lol. I just sincerly think that you have an issue with spamming. That i can understand, trust me, i put spammers on ignore too. But all the rest is very discutable as it is not evident that any given player made all the choices to put themselves into such and such situation. RL gets in the way, someone picks a server at random, someone doesnt even know what a server is, etc. But even with all that, even if its a sunny monday morning on the lowest populated server ever created by a MMORPG company in history right after server back up, it is their right to be enjoying their playtime and to LFG for xp if they want to.

To me its a non-issue, except the spamming part, and once again i am sorry if my first post insulted you, i just happened to have an alt on freeport side that i was playing right after server maintenance (was working during the night and was getting up right at servers back up) and i guess that your thread did sounded a bit offensive to me at first.

PEACE

Edited, Thu Nov 17 03:18:18 2005 by ThatGuyRandom
#8 Nov 17 2005 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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1,494 posts
It's mostly just a way to vent the frustration that my id would rather vent at the people themselves: "Just &@$#% go out and solo for a while, it won't kill you! If you can't get a group going, suck it up and drive on!" Just blowing off steam, in a way. I try to be polite in personal interaction; I don't want to tell people that I think they're being idiots, even if that does happen to be what I'm thinking.

With regard to my statement about brooding types preferring Freeport: I stand by my statement. There is a portion of the gaming population (or the entire population, if you prefer) that is inherently drawn to dark, dreary, dismal settings and "evil" themes and characters. These types also tend to be iconoclastic and separatist - soloists, in a word. I don't intend to suggest or infer that they're a large part of the Freeporter community - I'd wager that they're a fairly small part, really... but it is a significant, if minor, factor to deal with on the Freeport side. Incidentally, these people also tend to play Forsaken characters in WoW.

I understand that what side you pick makes no significant different for grouping past the early 20's - once you can either safely make the run through Nektulos to the docks there, or get a Griffon Egg to make use of the flight towers, it becomes a total non-issue. Freeporters and Qeynosians mix freely without even knowing (or caring, for the most part - even the dedicated, hardcore Roleplayers justify some reason for it) which side they're on.

You're absolutely correct in that, aside from the spamming, they're not impacting my gameplay in the slightest. I know this. It just irks me to see people being so irrational (refusing to solo when soloing is a viable option) and/or attempting to get other people to do their work for them. As I said at the beginning, this rant is just about blowing off steam about a minor frustration... not really something that pisses me off. I tend to be verbose, so that might make it look like I really care about this situation more than I actually do.
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