This thread is not ment as a rant.
We have all noticed that serverpopulation has decreased since WoW. What have SoE done to try and keep the players?
They have done alot. But IMO what they have done might be bad the game in the long run.
1. They made the game easier and easier by adding more xp for quests, solo, duo and small groups.
2. They increased the rare drops when harvesting.
3. They seperated mitigation and aviodence.
4. Making mobs less likly to agro you.
5. Decreased group debt.
6. Added augmentations (the new rares).
7. Making some nameds and instances easier to win.
All theese changes might seem good at first look.
I will tell you point by point why theese changes imo are not good once.
1. People will level to fast, being newbies even though they are lvl 40+. A few days ago in CT I saw this /ooc "Group looking for dmg or dps". People tried to explain to him in ooc that there was no diffrence, a few mins later he /ooc'ed "Group looking for dmg or wizard". Also, leveling fast will mean you miss out on alot of great content. You can say 'turn of xp' or 'do it later while mentoring' but not many people see this as an option.
Also, with the lack of endgame content alot of people will stop playing when they hit level 50, we have allready seen this happen alot.
2. Everyone will have the same armor at high levels. Ok, good some of our casuals say. But really? is it? Do you want to look like everyone else when you are level 50? Wouldn't it feel alot better when you finally get one rare and have to decide what armor piece you will use it on?
3. Surely this is a good change? Imo no. This allready caused alot of whining and it will get worse. Whine like "Why bother using a shield?", "Why is xx class so much better then xx and dont even use shields" etc etc. Why isnt this good? People get upset and SoE are slow so before they 'fix' things noone knew where broken before alot will have cancelled there accounts.
4. Whats fun playing a game that has no challange?
5. No feeling of punishment = no feeling of achievment.
6. Adding augmentations is cool! Its nice we had HoTT in one of the first patches too. But it gets me thinking, SoE just keeps tossing out nice cool stuff in patches just to keep there players.. But can they really come up with enough stuff in expansions if they keep adding such cool things allready? I dont know, mby. I just hope they dont get drained with ideas for the upcoming expansion, I dont only want a few new zones and quests in the first expansion.
7. When stuff gets easier you will not have the same feeling of reward.
There is more I can add really but I thought I start with this.
Whats my reason with this thread?
Well, I want to find out what you guys think, most here are casuall gamers unlike me. I want your oppinions.
Am I completly stupid for thinking like I do?
Or do you agree to some extent that SoE bends to easy to all whiners and it might be bad for the game in the long run?
Please dont answer with flames etc, explain why you disagree if you disagree.
Happy hunting.
Edited, Wed Mar 23 06:16:27 2005 by BumbiRagnar
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- EverQuest II
- General Discussion
- SoE getting desperate?
SoE getting desperate?Follow
I'm kinda looking more at the big picture. EQ2 will be around for many years, after all EQ1 has just hit its 6th birthday.
There've been rumours that eventually we'll level to 200. So I'm not surprised there's something of a sameness about armour looks now, they need to leave themselves somewhere to go in the future. I'm betting in a year's time there will be some totally awesome looks in the game and a much wider variety.
Think about EQ1, how many radical changes they made as the years went by, and yet it stood the test of time.
EQ2 is in a different environment sure, it has much more competition, but it is SoE's major gaming product, and I bet they have many awesome expansions and additions already planned out.
Those things you mentioned don't diminish my gaming fun; I don't really care how fast other people level. In every game there will be a group who put the pedal down and end up burning themselves out. I prefer to take a bit more time and smell the roses.
To sum it up - I'm here for the long haul; can't wait to see how the game develops over the years.
There've been rumours that eventually we'll level to 200. So I'm not surprised there's something of a sameness about armour looks now, they need to leave themselves somewhere to go in the future. I'm betting in a year's time there will be some totally awesome looks in the game and a much wider variety.
Think about EQ1, how many radical changes they made as the years went by, and yet it stood the test of time.
EQ2 is in a different environment sure, it has much more competition, but it is SoE's major gaming product, and I bet they have many awesome expansions and additions already planned out.
Those things you mentioned don't diminish my gaming fun; I don't really care how fast other people level. In every game there will be a group who put the pedal down and end up burning themselves out. I prefer to take a bit more time and smell the roses.
To sum it up - I'm here for the long haul; can't wait to see how the game develops over the years.
well I must respectfully disagree, I think a lot of these changes are good.. in fact I've seen nothing but server population increase... it depends on the server you're on... Oasis and Toxxulia have seen nothing but increased population. In fact I recall when Toxx was pretty much empty.. that's certainly not the case anymore. Crushbone has always been full... I'll address the points you bring up.
1. They made the game easier and easier by adding more xp for quests, solo, duo and small groups.
As a MAJOR soloist, I love the new solo quest and the added content for solo's, duo's, and small groups. I play duo with my s.o. from time to time. It's pretty rare for me to join a pickup group. In fact.. looking at all my characters in my sig, counting the number of times I've grouped (pickup groups, not counting duo's with partner) then adding it together... the total is seven. That's right.. the total number of times I've done pickup groups with all my characters combined is so low you can count it on two hands and have fingers left over.
And those RARE instances when I did group it was typically for a single quest.. once it was done the group disbanded due to getting late or whatever... so I can confidently say grouping accounts for less than 2% of the total experience points I've gained to date. (in fact pickup groups have accounted for more of my XP debt than XP gain)
leveling quickly is NOT possible solo, I assure you.. my Conjuror can solo VERY well.. but she's not all that high level. Granted I play a lot of Alts.. but even with concentrated play-time instead of Alt time, I still would likely only be just past 30th. NOW what solo play does do is this:
intimately teaches you the capabilities of your class... because you have no safety net of 5 other people to fall back on.
however someone who doesn't know that there is no diff. between DMG and DPS.. that's not the fault of fast leveling or solo play, they were just dumb.
2. They increased the rare drops when harvesting.
honestly I don't see everyone having the same armor, except for one reason. People are not making various armor types.. they focus on what sells. MOST of the increased armor drops from mobs are kinda ok.. but a select few are NICE.. it's good to see added GOOD items from kills..
I think over time they'll add stuff to the crafting books so people can make more.
3. They seperated mitigation and aviodence.
well these are by definition totally different things.. they should be separate.
4. Making mobs less likly to agro you.
they did this??? All the new solo content I've seen have been aggro mobs.. and bears at that.. why bears.. they are VERY strong for their con. My Conjuror can utterly destroy orange con wolves, griffawns, and skeletons in the thundering stepps... orange con bears I have to treat like fine china or it's dying time. Thankfully I've leveled far enough that they're not orange anymore, but when they were.. THAT was a dangerous trip to the Stepps.
and two days ago while helping my s.o. do the betrayl quest.. we were aggro'd by gray cons.. O_O not like they were a threat but still.. that was unexpected.
*for the record* the betrayl quest was a lot of fun and I was only helping out from time to time, mainly mentoring and helping kill the named mobs cause you CANNOT solo them and being the Antonican tour guide.
5. Decreased group debt.
YAY!!!!! pickup groups can be bad enough.. it's worse to take a huge chunk of debt due to someone else running head-long into a pack of undead or *ahem* not listening -repreatedly- when you tell them to pull back and not fight in the spawn zone:
---- fallen gate group ---- Playing Nerris, I logged off with 168% debt after I told them repeatedly that it was an obvious spwan zone and we should move back... I don't group much, and the few times I HAVE joined pickup groups well.. let's just say I have yet to be impressed.
feeling punishment if *I* ***** up is fine. As a solo'ist, things happen adds and such.. .. I can accept it.. feeling punishment if someone else does things after being warned that there's a high spwan-mid-fight possibility... that's not acceptable.
6. Added augmentations (the new rares).
OHH sounds nifty.. may have to read up on these....
there's LOTS they can add and do with the game.. since they've effectively re-made the world. Old knowledge has been lost.. so they can do things their own way in a lot of cases.
7. Making some nameds and instances easier to win.
well after helping my S.O. do the betrayl quest earlier this week (we duo'ed it)... if this is the case, and they did make some easier, they left the mobs in the betrayl quest alone.. Sarn the Wayfarer is an awesome mob to duo at 17th level.. We BOTH died to Felzik Dursin.. he hit so hard we went from green health to orange in one shot.
when we were not fighting named mobs for the quest I would un-mentor. This allowed two things.. we could travel Antonica with no aggro risk, and, because of that, there was no risk of accidental XP gain. When the Betrayl quest was done, my s.o. was 17th level, with 2% xp needed to ding 18th level... that was shaving it close.
so I made the travel easier.. I eliminated the fluff so we could get on with what mattered.. the quest mobs. Being 26th level I would utterly destroy anything even *REMOTELY* close that would aggro, then mentor (which dropped my level to 17), then we would fight the named...
do I feel like we accomplished something, better believe it.. Sarn, Crugybar, Towlyn, etc.. are VERY strong mobs to fight for a summoner duo.. it took a good bit of coordination and alternating spells so we could keep our individual hate levels low.. which helped our summons maintain hate throughout the fights. It's a lot to keep up with.. so wiping the area of potential adds allowed us to focus.
Edited, Wed Mar 23 08:39:09 2005 by Iaini
Edited, Wed Mar 23 08:42:51 2005 by Iaini
1. They made the game easier and easier by adding more xp for quests, solo, duo and small groups.
As a MAJOR soloist, I love the new solo quest and the added content for solo's, duo's, and small groups. I play duo with my s.o. from time to time. It's pretty rare for me to join a pickup group. In fact.. looking at all my characters in my sig, counting the number of times I've grouped (pickup groups, not counting duo's with partner) then adding it together... the total is seven. That's right.. the total number of times I've done pickup groups with all my characters combined is so low you can count it on two hands and have fingers left over.
And those RARE instances when I did group it was typically for a single quest.. once it was done the group disbanded due to getting late or whatever... so I can confidently say grouping accounts for less than 2% of the total experience points I've gained to date. (in fact pickup groups have accounted for more of my XP debt than XP gain)
leveling quickly is NOT possible solo, I assure you.. my Conjuror can solo VERY well.. but she's not all that high level. Granted I play a lot of Alts.. but even with concentrated play-time instead of Alt time, I still would likely only be just past 30th. NOW what solo play does do is this:
intimately teaches you the capabilities of your class... because you have no safety net of 5 other people to fall back on.
however someone who doesn't know that there is no diff. between DMG and DPS.. that's not the fault of fast leveling or solo play, they were just dumb.
2. They increased the rare drops when harvesting.
honestly I don't see everyone having the same armor, except for one reason. People are not making various armor types.. they focus on what sells. MOST of the increased armor drops from mobs are kinda ok.. but a select few are NICE.. it's good to see added GOOD items from kills..
I think over time they'll add stuff to the crafting books so people can make more.
3. They seperated mitigation and aviodence.
well these are by definition totally different things.. they should be separate.
4. Making mobs less likly to agro you.
they did this??? All the new solo content I've seen have been aggro mobs.. and bears at that.. why bears.. they are VERY strong for their con. My Conjuror can utterly destroy orange con wolves, griffawns, and skeletons in the thundering stepps... orange con bears I have to treat like fine china or it's dying time. Thankfully I've leveled far enough that they're not orange anymore, but when they were.. THAT was a dangerous trip to the Stepps.
and two days ago while helping my s.o. do the betrayl quest.. we were aggro'd by gray cons.. O_O not like they were a threat but still.. that was unexpected.
*for the record* the betrayl quest was a lot of fun and I was only helping out from time to time, mainly mentoring and helping kill the named mobs cause you CANNOT solo them and being the Antonican tour guide.
5. Decreased group debt.
YAY!!!!! pickup groups can be bad enough.. it's worse to take a huge chunk of debt due to someone else running head-long into a pack of undead or *ahem* not listening -repreatedly- when you tell them to pull back and not fight in the spawn zone:
---- fallen gate group ---- Playing Nerris, I logged off with 168% debt after I told them repeatedly that it was an obvious spwan zone and we should move back... I don't group much, and the few times I HAVE joined pickup groups well.. let's just say I have yet to be impressed.
feeling punishment if *I* ***** up is fine. As a solo'ist, things happen adds and such.. .. I can accept it.. feeling punishment if someone else does things after being warned that there's a high spwan-mid-fight possibility... that's not acceptable.
6. Added augmentations (the new rares).
OHH sounds nifty.. may have to read up on these....
there's LOTS they can add and do with the game.. since they've effectively re-made the world. Old knowledge has been lost.. so they can do things their own way in a lot of cases.
7. Making some nameds and instances easier to win.
well after helping my S.O. do the betrayl quest earlier this week (we duo'ed it)... if this is the case, and they did make some easier, they left the mobs in the betrayl quest alone.. Sarn the Wayfarer is an awesome mob to duo at 17th level.. We BOTH died to Felzik Dursin.. he hit so hard we went from green health to orange in one shot.
when we were not fighting named mobs for the quest I would un-mentor. This allowed two things.. we could travel Antonica with no aggro risk, and, because of that, there was no risk of accidental XP gain. When the Betrayl quest was done, my s.o. was 17th level, with 2% xp needed to ding 18th level... that was shaving it close.
so I made the travel easier.. I eliminated the fluff so we could get on with what mattered.. the quest mobs. Being 26th level I would utterly destroy anything even *REMOTELY* close that would aggro, then mentor (which dropped my level to 17), then we would fight the named...
do I feel like we accomplished something, better believe it.. Sarn, Crugybar, Towlyn, etc.. are VERY strong mobs to fight for a summoner duo.. it took a good bit of coordination and alternating spells so we could keep our individual hate levels low.. which helped our summons maintain hate throughout the fights. It's a lot to keep up with.. so wiping the area of potential adds allowed us to focus.
Edited, Wed Mar 23 08:39:09 2005 by Iaini
Edited, Wed Mar 23 08:42:51 2005 by Iaini
Bumbi,
I see your point, but have to agree with the OP's. I think your fear stems from the changes they made in EQ1, where they made the game so much easier it almost trivialized what the older gamers had accomplished.
I believe you have to look at this from a 200 level perspective. Which if you look at it, means even the level 50's are still noobs in regards to end content.
I prefer to see SoE keep adding content, and have been happy with most fo the changes so far (please note that as an Alchemist the TS change effected me heavily).
I admit, I do not want the game to become to easy, and also feal that the high end player should be able to attain things the lower tier players can only owwww and ahhh over. I think you will see this more as the game grows.
Good thread by the way.
I see your point, but have to agree with the OP's. I think your fear stems from the changes they made in EQ1, where they made the game so much easier it almost trivialized what the older gamers had accomplished.
I believe you have to look at this from a 200 level perspective. Which if you look at it, means even the level 50's are still noobs in regards to end content.
I prefer to see SoE keep adding content, and have been happy with most fo the changes so far (please note that as an Alchemist the TS change effected me heavily).
I admit, I do not want the game to become to easy, and also feal that the high end player should be able to attain things the lower tier players can only owwww and ahhh over. I think you will see this more as the game grows.
Good thread by the way.
26 posts
Quote:
Well, I want to find out what you guys think, most here are casuall gamers unlike me. I want your oppinions
hehe, not sure why you assume many here are casual gamers.
Soe isn't going to please everyone with every patch, or every change, but IF you remember, and thats assuming you were even playing eq1 when Kunark was released, and how the game changed over the coarse of time, the end result was quite different.
In other words, please don't be so quick to judge the product so early in its life. Much will change, content will get more difficult, as the level cap increases.
Biggest problem in eq2 IMO, has nothing to do with SoE, but with a small, select group of players, people telling other people how to play, being inconsiderate, and just generally being a PITA. Some saw (at the time) end-game content in EQ1, like myself, but I don't tell others how to play, or infer that I am somehow better, more knowledgeable than the next guy.
Is content easier now, than 2 months ago? My opinion is yes, but I'm not in the head of an SoE developer/designer/programmer, so I don't exactly know what they have planned. I'll wait like I did in eq1, give my occasional feedback if i see something that appears broken, or needs attention, and see where the game heads.
Keep posting the good replies!
Probably theese changes are not bad but I think there is a small risk in em being bad and that gets me worried because this is the game I have plans to play for years to come.
If it turns bad, my plans for the next few years goes down the drain so Im probably abit 'over protective' and worrie over pointless things.
Would be fun to see if anyone agrees on any point though.
One thing that probably is good for the game that I am sure I do not like is the increased solo xp. Call me a moron if you like but I think solo is something you should only do when your lfg and probably not something all classes should be able to do.
This is not the case nor will it ever be.
To me a MMO is not a solo game, there are tons of single player games and Everquest should not be one IMO. This is an oppinion and Im not saying 'go ***** yourselfs solo'ers', agree or disagree but dont shoot me. :p
I have solo'ed my fair part and I can say that IMO, there will allways be 100 games that are better then any MMO if you only solo. And IMO it should be that way.
Anyways, more replie's plz! And keep it polite, I know its hard because I probably think very diffrent from most people here.. :)
Probably theese changes are not bad but I think there is a small risk in em being bad and that gets me worried because this is the game I have plans to play for years to come.
If it turns bad, my plans for the next few years goes down the drain so Im probably abit 'over protective' and worrie over pointless things.
Would be fun to see if anyone agrees on any point though.
One thing that probably is good for the game that I am sure I do not like is the increased solo xp. Call me a moron if you like but I think solo is something you should only do when your lfg and probably not something all classes should be able to do.
This is not the case nor will it ever be.
To me a MMO is not a solo game, there are tons of single player games and Everquest should not be one IMO. This is an oppinion and Im not saying 'go ***** yourselfs solo'ers', agree or disagree but dont shoot me. :p
I have solo'ed my fair part and I can say that IMO, there will allways be 100 games that are better then any MMO if you only solo. And IMO it should be that way.
Anyways, more replie's plz! And keep it polite, I know its hard because I probably think very diffrent from most people here.. :)
TDKSOREAL wrote:
Quote:
Well, I want to find out what you guys think, most here are casuall gamers unlike me. I want your oppinions
hehe, not sure why you assume many here are casual gamers.
Soe isn't going to please everyone with every patch, or every change, but IF you remember, and thats assuming you were even playing eq1 when Kunark was released, and how the game changed over the coarse of time, the end result was quite different.
In other words, please don't be so quick to judge the product so early in its life. Much will change, content will get more difficult, as the level cap increases.
Biggest problem in eq2 IMO, has nothing to do with SoE, but with a small, select group of players, people telling other people how to play, being inconsiderate, and just generally being a PITA. Some saw (at the time) end-game content in EQ1, like myself, but I don't tell others how to play, or infer that I am somehow better, more knowledgeable than the next guy.
Is content easier now, than 2 months ago? My opinion is yes, but I'm not in the head of an SoE developer/designer/programmer, so I don't exactly know what they have planned. I'll wait like I did in eq1, give my occasional feedback if i see something that appears broken, or needs attention, and see where the game heads.
First I dont assume most here are casualls, I know.. =)
I read and post on this forums 4 hours per day. Some are not casualls but most are. Just look at some sigs. And I have never ever said there was anything wrong with being casuall.
And you say dont judge so soon in the game. That has been my standpoint from day one.
If you do a search on me here you will probably find 10 posts or more when I say 'give it time' or 'eq1 is better then eq2 BUT eq1 has 8 expansions.. eq2 has alot of potentiall'.
I am nowhere in my post saying this game is broken or that I will quit. Its not ment to be a whining post. Im just trying to start a discussion (not a fight).
I mearly am saying that to me it looks like the game might be going in the wrong direction. But yes its to early to judge.
SoE has competition now unlike EQ1.
This is imo both good and bad.
Its good because they cant ignore the players because then they will quit.
Its bad because they cant ignore the players. They might have to do changes that are not good for the game in the long run.
One thing I think we can all agree on though is that SoE has a tough job.. :p
I feel alot of these changes are needed.
The group debt was causing people to not want to group. Several people still refuse to group with anybody but guildmates. Not everybody is in a guild, and not everybody makes alot of friends. I personally rely on pick up groups to exp, and by decreaseing the group debt more people are going to be willing to join pick up groups.
The increased rares was also a much needed item. I personally see no reason why people shouldn't be able to afford there adept 3 spells. After all most of your weapons and armor up to level 40 are less then 10 gold each, so why should a level 10 caster have to pay 20 gold for a adept 3 lvl 10 spell??
As far as more XP for quests, that is something they promised before the game was even released. One of the goals of Everquest 2 was to have quests that could help level you. I don't see a problem with a person getting 4% exp for completeing a couple hours long quest? And at higher levels that is normally about all you can expect. Sure heritage quests give excellent exp, but I mean come on you can only do them once per charactor and they are a HUGE time sink.
I don't see the augmentations making anybody overly powerful. I think its a nice change as well.
By making mobs less likely to attack you, people might be able to explore. Exploreing is supposed to be another major part of the game, but obviously how can a person explore if there is a bunch of aggressive mobs everywhere. And when they first added those olo mobs, they was really not spaced out well. I seen plenty of people running for there life from Noxious assassins and Lancer Wasps.
The recent changes have made me quite happy. I just wish they would do something with tradeskills, since the attune/fuel cost patch I have no desire to do tailoring anymore.
The group debt was causing people to not want to group. Several people still refuse to group with anybody but guildmates. Not everybody is in a guild, and not everybody makes alot of friends. I personally rely on pick up groups to exp, and by decreaseing the group debt more people are going to be willing to join pick up groups.
The increased rares was also a much needed item. I personally see no reason why people shouldn't be able to afford there adept 3 spells. After all most of your weapons and armor up to level 40 are less then 10 gold each, so why should a level 10 caster have to pay 20 gold for a adept 3 lvl 10 spell??
As far as more XP for quests, that is something they promised before the game was even released. One of the goals of Everquest 2 was to have quests that could help level you. I don't see a problem with a person getting 4% exp for completeing a couple hours long quest? And at higher levels that is normally about all you can expect. Sure heritage quests give excellent exp, but I mean come on you can only do them once per charactor and they are a HUGE time sink.
I don't see the augmentations making anybody overly powerful. I think its a nice change as well.
By making mobs less likely to attack you, people might be able to explore. Exploreing is supposed to be another major part of the game, but obviously how can a person explore if there is a bunch of aggressive mobs everywhere. And when they first added those olo mobs, they was really not spaced out well. I seen plenty of people running for there life from Noxious assassins and Lancer Wasps.
The recent changes have made me quite happy. I just wish they would do something with tradeskills, since the attune/fuel cost patch I have no desire to do tailoring anymore.
Hi
its probably just me but I dont think just anyone should be able to get adept 3's.
Its not like there is a major diffrence in most spells adept1 to 3 anyways.
I have had one adept 3 so far.
Getting rares for adept's and armor is something to do when you hit level 50, something I look forward to. They took away part of that now when making them twice as common. I will most likely be able to get all my spells on adept 3 within a week after hitting level 50.
Before the patch most people have had one or two adept 3's. Now everyone will have them on many spells. Why not remove scaling and give everyone adept 3 on ding instead of app1? Im probably taking it to the extreme though, but my point still holds valid imo.
I do agree that many of the solo mobs where placed bad so you allways ended up wit a train.
But its not that, they stop chasing faster, less agro range etc (some mobs atleast).
I have never had any problem exploring before, besides I just looooooove exploring knowing that there might be danger involved.
I know I would not have enjoyed my travels to Sol E if it was completly safe to do them.
I looooove augmentations, one of my eq1 favourite things. But I am afraid they just toss in good stuff now and will run out of idea´s later, it probably isnt much risk of that happening but still...
Regarding level cap of 200.. I have read on many places now that it is something they have changed after alot of people whining about it. I cant say for sure since I havent read an officiall post about it myself but I belive SoE changed level cap to 100 now.
Its not like there is a major diffrence in most spells adept1 to 3 anyways.
I have had one adept 3 so far.
Getting rares for adept's and armor is something to do when you hit level 50, something I look forward to. They took away part of that now when making them twice as common. I will most likely be able to get all my spells on adept 3 within a week after hitting level 50.
Before the patch most people have had one or two adept 3's. Now everyone will have them on many spells. Why not remove scaling and give everyone adept 3 on ding instead of app1? Im probably taking it to the extreme though, but my point still holds valid imo.
I do agree that many of the solo mobs where placed bad so you allways ended up wit a train.
But its not that, they stop chasing faster, less agro range etc (some mobs atleast).
I have never had any problem exploring before, besides I just looooooove exploring knowing that there might be danger involved.
I know I would not have enjoyed my travels to Sol E if it was completly safe to do them.
I looooove augmentations, one of my eq1 favourite things. But I am afraid they just toss in good stuff now and will run out of idea´s later, it probably isnt much risk of that happening but still...
Regarding level cap of 200.. I have read on many places now that it is something they have changed after alot of people whining about it. I cant say for sure since I havent read an officiall post about it myself but I belive SoE changed level cap to 100 now.
Quote:
One thing that probably is good for the game that I am sure I do not like is the increased solo xp. Call me a moron if you like but I think solo is something you should only do when your lfg and probably not something all classes should be able to do.
well once again, as a solo'ist the *increase* isn't nearly as much as you think. At 26th level it will take me a decent span of time to ding 27th.. (likely 6 to 8 hours total worth of mob grinding and quest) You do NOT want a game where only select classes can solo, let me ASSURE you of this.
After a year of FFXI, I must strongly disagree that not all classes should be able to solo. In *that* game, only one class could solo effectively.. every other class could, and would, get totally destroyed by easy prey after 15th to 17th level... grouping was mandatory, and not small groups.. full parties of 6 to have a chance at coming away with an effective XP session.
but here, I'll give a for-instance, and yes this really happened:
my main in FFXI was a white mage, at 30th level.. helping friends out a little they were aggro'ed by a jelly.. it rated easy prey to me, incredibly tough to them.. no way they could even begin to beat it.. let alone survive 3 hits... so I took it to give them time to run, I knew it wouldn't be easy.. but what I got was FAR worse than I expected.
melee attacks with my staff (max staff skill, highest damage staff I could find) I was hitting it for 6..critical for 10.
it could, and often did, hit me for 60 to 70, critical for as high as 120..
my highest damage spell - banish - was hitting for around 20 to 30 pts of damage.
Dia II - DOT, 1 dmg per tick....
I hit it with Slow and Paralyze, self buffed with Stoneskin (which it ripped through in a single hit if it was a critical).. and saved the rest of my mana for healing
after burning up my remaining 90% of my mana on healing and self-buffs (I determined damage spells to be useless) AND using my 2hour ability (insta-heal for all party members but I was solo) I STILL came out of the fight in the DEEP red Health and zero mana but I DID win.. and that's against easy prey...
reward: 8 XP.
That is solo'ing in FFXI for all classes but BeastMaster.. consider this before you say you don't want decent solo'ing XP. Play FFXI to 30th level.. that will change your tune on this topic in a heartbeat.
I agree with Duchess. Being able to solo is a huge plus. As a 52 Thief in FFXI there were a few easy pray I could take down using status bolts and lots of strategy. So after a 10 min fight I get 8xp. When the next tnl is 20K (can't remember exacly what it was as I haven't played in 2 months), thats 0.04% towards my next level from 1 mob that took me 10 min to kill.
Don't get me wrong, I like grouping as well and do it quite often. But I also like the option to solo if I want. Also my solo xp/hour does not match my group xp/hour so its not like soloist have an advantage.
Don't get me wrong, I like grouping as well and do it quite often. But I also like the option to solo if I want. Also my solo xp/hour does not match my group xp/hour so its not like soloist have an advantage.
Bumbi you can't judge a player by their sig 
After playing EQ1 for 4 years, I now play EQ2 every day, and I'm sure some folks don't update their sigs regularly
After playing EQ1 for 4 years, I now play EQ2 every day, and I'm sure some folks don't update their sigs regularly
Might be true Bluie but I can asure you that most here are casual players and I know you come here alot too so you will probably agree with me.
I consider myself pretty hardcore playing atleast 5 hours on weekdays min and 10-15 hours per day on weekends and days off, not many here will come up to that playtime.. Beside, 6 out of 8 work hours I spend reading here, graffes, soe boards. :)
ok, sorry to me for hijacking my own thread. /em slaps himselfs with a large trout
Dutchie, yes I want a game like that.. Like EQ1, not only FFXI are like that.
In EQ1 most classes could not really solo and some classes could not solo and not to prefered in groups either, like shammy's. (talking from a lvl 70 point of view) but you wouldnt want a raid without a shammy.
Well, to be honest I dont want a game like that because it would die to fast but if it could surive I would want it.. :)
Im just one of thoose guys who wants to take EVERYTHING to the extreme, soz about that :p
Anyways, more replies pls on topic! :)
Goodnight, just ended a 7 hours session in Lavastorm and Permafrost.. =)
Edited, Wed Mar 23 18:09:04 2005 by BumbiRagnar
I consider myself pretty hardcore playing atleast 5 hours on weekdays min and 10-15 hours per day on weekends and days off, not many here will come up to that playtime.. Beside, 6 out of 8 work hours I spend reading here, graffes, soe boards. :)
ok, sorry to me for hijacking my own thread. /em slaps himselfs with a large trout
Dutchie, yes I want a game like that.. Like EQ1, not only FFXI are like that.
In EQ1 most classes could not really solo and some classes could not solo and not to prefered in groups either, like shammy's. (talking from a lvl 70 point of view) but you wouldnt want a raid without a shammy.
Well, to be honest I dont want a game like that because it would die to fast but if it could surive I would want it.. :)
Im just one of thoose guys who wants to take EVERYTHING to the extreme, soz about that :p
Anyways, more replies pls on topic! :)
Goodnight, just ended a 7 hours session in Lavastorm and Permafrost.. =)
Edited, Wed Mar 23 18:09:04 2005 by BumbiRagnar
Im sure this has been said many times, but if you liked the way Eq1 was, its still available to play. Everquest 2 is not meant to be as hardcore as eq1 was. Like you said alot of casual players are here. I am personally a casual player. That is the main reason I quit Everquest 1. I did not enjoy the 3+ hour raids trying to gain access to zones I paid for (IE POP when it first came out). I also didn't enjoy sitting around for hours LFG and not being able to do anything cause I was not able to solo.
Obviously from the way you talk you was probably in one of the top guilds of your server, and more then likely you went through all of the Planar Progression quests, and you seen some of the highest lvl content in everquest 1. Thats fine and dandy for the hardcore players. I was part of one of those hardcore guilds in eq1... I was kicked out 2 days later cause I wanted to go hang out with friends and not spend 5 hours raiding a mob. I don't want anything to do with a guild that forces me to play when I have real life things to do. At least with Everquest 2 I stand a good chance of seeing a good chunk of the content. Because of the Hardcore requirements in eq1, I never seen 75% of POP, 95% of Gates, and none of the higher end keyed Velious, luclin zones, etc.
While the access quests are annoying in eq2, at least you don't need 72 people strictly organized to complete them.
Obviously from the way you talk you was probably in one of the top guilds of your server, and more then likely you went through all of the Planar Progression quests, and you seen some of the highest lvl content in everquest 1. Thats fine and dandy for the hardcore players. I was part of one of those hardcore guilds in eq1... I was kicked out 2 days later cause I wanted to go hang out with friends and not spend 5 hours raiding a mob. I don't want anything to do with a guild that forces me to play when I have real life things to do. At least with Everquest 2 I stand a good chance of seeing a good chunk of the content. Because of the Hardcore requirements in eq1, I never seen 75% of POP, 95% of Gates, and none of the higher end keyed Velious, luclin zones, etc.
While the access quests are annoying in eq2, at least you don't need 72 people strictly organized to complete them.
Hi
One thing I agree with SoE is the attuning of gear. This nearly eliminates twinking, so at least you know the people in your group earned what they are wearing.
As to the casual crowd on Allah's you are probable close to the truth.....but most are knowledgeable casual. I played EQ1 for close to 4 years, but only play a couple hrs a night anymore (life changes in 4 years LOL). I will level, but at my own pace, enjoying the ride.
As to the casual crowd on Allah's you are probable close to the truth.....but most are knowledgeable casual. I played EQ1 for close to 4 years, but only play a couple hrs a night anymore (life changes in 4 years LOL). I will level, but at my own pace, enjoying the ride.
I can't really speak about EQ1 as I only played that for 3 months way way back. I've changed obviously...I couldn't get into MMO's back then.
Like I said I don't have a problem with grouping, but if basically mandatory gouping was implemented in EQ2 would it quickly degrade (IMHO). There are already lvl 50 fighter classes complaining about not getting into Raids (on the SOE boards...there's a 6 page one on the test server forum) because Guardians are the prefered tank. If solo content did not exist, you would get even more favoritism. I don't want an FFXI dragoon situation to occur in EQ2.
Yep and even if you are that hardcore, if you were a dragoon in FFXI you would still have your "looking for group flag up" after 2 weeks and not advancing at all post level 50. If thats fun to you then I guess thats your cup of tea.
I don't balk at difficulty, what ticks me off is not being able to advance AT ALL due to imposed limitations (either from the company or the community). The problem when there is no solo content is that there will always be classes that are more preffered for groups no matter how hard the developer tries to "ballance" things.
Now that being said, the lack of being able to solo was not the reason I left FFXI (Groups that clicked were extremely fun and I was pretty good at putting my own together even if it took 2-3 hours to do it). I left due to a number of things including being really sick of farming non-xp mobs for days on end...I am so glad I don't have to do that in EQ2 :).
Like I said I don't have a problem with grouping, but if basically mandatory gouping was implemented in EQ2 would it quickly degrade (IMHO). There are already lvl 50 fighter classes complaining about not getting into Raids (on the SOE boards...there's a 6 page one on the test server forum) because Guardians are the prefered tank. If solo content did not exist, you would get even more favoritism. I don't want an FFXI dragoon situation to occur in EQ2.
Quote:
I consider myself pretty hardcore playing atleast 5 hours on weekdays min and 10-15 hours per day on weekends and days off, not many here will come up to that playtime.. Beside, 6 out of 8 work hours I spend reading here, graffes, soe boards. :)
Yep and even if you are that hardcore, if you were a dragoon in FFXI you would still have your "looking for group flag up" after 2 weeks and not advancing at all post level 50. If thats fun to you then I guess thats your cup of tea.
I don't balk at difficulty, what ticks me off is not being able to advance AT ALL due to imposed limitations (either from the company or the community). The problem when there is no solo content is that there will always be classes that are more preffered for groups no matter how hard the developer tries to "ballance" things.
Now that being said, the lack of being able to solo was not the reason I left FFXI (Groups that clicked were extremely fun and I was pretty good at putting my own together even if it took 2-3 hours to do it). I left due to a number of things including being really sick of farming non-xp mobs for days on end...I am so glad I don't have to do that in EQ2 :).
Good replies people.. Keep em coming.
To reply to some of the replies:
1. I enjoyed having my lfg tag on an hour or two every day in EQ1. Gave me a chance to eat, chat and do some stuff at home. Also knowing that at 20.00 I had a raid for 3-4 hours was nice, I allways knew that even if I didnt find a group I would still get to kill some heavy stuff.
Yes, I was in one of the top guilds on stromm EQ1 but we would not have kicked anyone for RL stuff unless they missed every raid for 30 days or so. Raids where mendatory IF you where online but noone had to skip RL just to raid. We where time and GoD geared.
As I stated before, I would play EQ1 still if my guild had not died upon EQ2 release because atm its the better game but thats because of 8 expansions.
EQ2 has far better potentiall.
I am saying that I want EQ2 to be more like EQ1 but I do realize that its not a good idea. However that is another topic, lets not talk about that here.
I do hope there will be stuff like PoP in EQ2 but SoE either needs to release it with a some kind of label like "Raid expansion" or better yet, implement it in another way so casuall can enjoy most of the zones or sum.
SoE do need to consider both the casual players and the hardcore one's, and atm they are actually doing that.
VBigB, I guess you havent dont EBBC quest in eq2? You will have to kill 1000 grey mobs in that quest.. :P
I have farmed lots and lots of grey mobs in EQ2 I can assure you :)
To reply to some of the replies:
1. I enjoyed having my lfg tag on an hour or two every day in EQ1. Gave me a chance to eat, chat and do some stuff at home. Also knowing that at 20.00 I had a raid for 3-4 hours was nice, I allways knew that even if I didnt find a group I would still get to kill some heavy stuff.
Yes, I was in one of the top guilds on stromm EQ1 but we would not have kicked anyone for RL stuff unless they missed every raid for 30 days or so. Raids where mendatory IF you where online but noone had to skip RL just to raid. We where time and GoD geared.
As I stated before, I would play EQ1 still if my guild had not died upon EQ2 release because atm its the better game but thats because of 8 expansions.
EQ2 has far better potentiall.
I am saying that I want EQ2 to be more like EQ1 but I do realize that its not a good idea. However that is another topic, lets not talk about that here.
I do hope there will be stuff like PoP in EQ2 but SoE either needs to release it with a some kind of label like "Raid expansion" or better yet, implement it in another way so casuall can enjoy most of the zones or sum.
SoE do need to consider both the casual players and the hardcore one's, and atm they are actually doing that.
VBigB, I guess you havent dont EBBC quest in eq2? You will have to kill 1000 grey mobs in that quest.. :P
I have farmed lots and lots of grey mobs in EQ2 I can assure you :)
BumbiRagnar wrote:
I enjoyed having my lfg tag on an hour or two every day in EQ1.
I can understand where you're coming from. But from my perspective, where my entire play session typically amounts to no more than 1 or 2 hours tops, you can see the problem I'd have. That's why I stuck with my necro for so many years in EQ1.
Soloability is a *must* for any casual player. Reduced soloability is directly proportional to a reduced casual-player base. (i.e., reduce soloability and you reduce the number of casual players in the game, simply because those players have no other choice but to leave)
Just to make it clear.
There are things about EQ2 that I dont like BUT the reasons they are in game is better for the game and community so they should not change them.
I dont want them to change the game to suit me because that would most likely kill the game.
Now I have 4 days away from work, planning on playing atleast 64 hours during that timeperiod.. :) So I wont reply any more to this thread until tuesday, but try to keep thread alive and post your replies for me to read when I get back!
Happy easter and hunting to you all!
There are things about EQ2 that I dont like BUT the reasons they are in game is better for the game and community so they should not change them.
I dont want them to change the game to suit me because that would most likely kill the game.
Now I have 4 days away from work, planning on playing atleast 64 hours during that timeperiod.. :) So I wont reply any more to this thread until tuesday, but try to keep thread alive and post your replies for me to read when I get back!
Happy easter and hunting to you all!
Quote:
VBigB, I guess you havent dont EBBC quest in eq2? You will have to kill 1000 grey mobs in that quest.. :P
I have farmed lots and lots of grey mobs in EQ2 I can assure you :)
I have farmed lots and lots of grey mobs in EQ2 I can assure you :)
hehe I have had to farm grey mobs for various quests but it's still not as onerous as FFXI. My 2 sniper rings cost me a total of 1 mil gil. Even if I farmed my best every time I went out (50K/hour) that still 20 hours and let me assure you most likely longer. I was also a ninja and I spent money like mad on consumeables I think after about lvl 30 I spent 80% of my time farming for gil.
I don't mind doing some farming :). EQ2 seems to have a nice balance in that reguard.
Edited, Thu Mar 24 13:25:17 2005 by VBigB
Quote:
Now I have 4 days away from work, planning on playing atleast 64 hours during that timeperiod.. :) So I wont reply any more to this thread until tuesday, but try to keep thread alive and post your replies for me to read when I get back!
lol, long weekends are nice. I think my eyes are going to be fairly bloodshot when I arrive at work on Tuesday.
Hmm wonder if I can duck out early today.
"in EQ2, you beg for a group or you dont really advance."
"EQ2 stops being "fun" at about level 20, and is an outright grind at level 25 where your sole purpose for playing is to get levels."
"because the quests in EQ2, well before level 20, are mostly group only. the dungons are mostly group only. most camps are group only. the solo game consists of whacking wanderers for no quest credit, no loot, and very little xp."
"eq2 was designed as a group orientated game."
I disagree with all those statements above. SoE has deliberately made it possible to solo with all classes. Sure some may be easier than others but it's nothing like EQ1 in that regard.
There are plenty of solo quests for 20+ in EQ2 and I'm sure they'll add more as time goes by.
I don't think anyone comes into a multiplayer game expecting to solo 100% of the time. Most people end up at least hooking up with a friend occasionally or dropping into the odd pickup group.
But even if you are resolutely solo there is a lot you can do by yourself that is not just grinding.
"EQ2 stops being "fun" at about level 20, and is an outright grind at level 25 where your sole purpose for playing is to get levels."
"because the quests in EQ2, well before level 20, are mostly group only. the dungons are mostly group only. most camps are group only. the solo game consists of whacking wanderers for no quest credit, no loot, and very little xp."
"eq2 was designed as a group orientated game."
I disagree with all those statements above. SoE has deliberately made it possible to solo with all classes. Sure some may be easier than others but it's nothing like EQ1 in that regard.
There are plenty of solo quests for 20+ in EQ2 and I'm sure they'll add more as time goes by.
I don't think anyone comes into a multiplayer game expecting to solo 100% of the time. Most people end up at least hooking up with a friend occasionally or dropping into the odd pickup group.
But even if you are resolutely solo there is a lot you can do by yourself that is not just grinding.
I would like to see WOW put out a freebie demo kinda like EQ2 did. The more I hear about WOW I think the better it suits me. These last few days I have really been down on eq2. I can't ever seem to get anything done. See all these people running around Everfrost talking about how awesome it is, and here I sit without the quest for it even started. Most of the guild who are my level have gotten together and finished that access quest, as well as Ferrot (however its spelled). Way too many access quests in eq2 I think. If I found WOW to be more solo friendly I would probablyleave eq2 in a heart beat. Sure you can solo in eq2, but as stated above the loot is subpar, exp is horribly slow, and very few quests past 30 involve mobs you can actually solo. And I have found its hard to get anybody to help you with a access quest if they have all ready done it. To be honest I can't really blame them, cause they are tedious.
Also, directed towards a post above, how does Attuning armor preventing twinking? I have yet to see any armor or weapons drop that are NO TRADE to start with. Only thing Attuning does it keep you from selling it after you use it. The thing that keeps peopel from twinking is the overly strick armor requirements. Im all for keeping lvl 1 players from wearing Lavastorm and sol ro drops, but I really think they are abit too strict on the requirements of armor. Heck I have killed solo mobs my level and gotten armor I can't wear yet. That is a major reason everybody wears the same armor, you really have no choice.
I also am the type who normally only plays 1 to 2 hours at a time. If I am really in a excellent group (which seems rare these days) I will force myself to stay on. Frankly I just can't stand to sit in front of any game for much more time then that without a break.
Also, directed towards a post above, how does Attuning armor preventing twinking? I have yet to see any armor or weapons drop that are NO TRADE to start with. Only thing Attuning does it keep you from selling it after you use it. The thing that keeps peopel from twinking is the overly strick armor requirements. Im all for keeping lvl 1 players from wearing Lavastorm and sol ro drops, but I really think they are abit too strict on the requirements of armor. Heck I have killed solo mobs my level and gotten armor I can't wear yet. That is a major reason everybody wears the same armor, you really have no choice.
I also am the type who normally only plays 1 to 2 hours at a time. If I am really in a excellent group (which seems rare these days) I will force myself to stay on. Frankly I just can't stand to sit in front of any game for much more time then that without a break.
Hi
26 posts
Quote:
I am saying that I want EQ2 to be more like EQ1 but I do realize that its not a good idea. However that is another topic, lets not talk about that here.
If it was any more like eq2, they could have just released it as another expansion, and not a stand alone game).
I too, played eq2 for just about 4 years, won't bore you with where I ended up, but i was flagged for all zones. Did I have fun? hell ya...but I got very tired of 5-8 hour raids, and yes, some WERE that long...keeping in mind, many top end guilds did not raid a single target, and call it a night...the tracking, and racing to fire, earth, GoD zones, just to farm more gear. Got very old, at least for me. EQ2 has some issues for me as well, but im patient, and I'm sure, given the time that eq1 had to iron out its problems, eq2 will be a similiar powerhouse in the future. I recall people complaining about Luclin release, and not getting our "promised" bazaar feature upon its release. We waited..and waited..and waited...and when it launched (bazaar), many crashes..MANY.
EQ1 was fun, in its day. Its graphics are now severely outdated. EQ2 can be fun, but it isn't, nor was it intended to be, JUST LIKE EQ1. But, as some of you have politely put it, we are ALL entitled to our opinion. I'm just glad that I don't have to log in and commit to 7-10 hours of gameplay each night to progress. My work hours have changed, and only probably get 25-30 hours of gaming in.
thanks for listening)
I disagree on several points. You have a small point in 7 with the elimination of some failure timers, but be honest, most groups got a failure due to bugs or the tank/healer going ld and being unable to re-enter the instance. Excessive downtime != challenge. Hopefully they learned that from eqlive
1. They made the game easier and easier by adding more xp for quests, solo, duo and small groups.
EQ2 was supposedly designed with the small group and soloist in mind. Those changes just brought it inline with what the game was supposed to be. Grinding is a great way to xp, and still is the fastest. Giving their playerbase an alternate way to advance is nothing but a good thing. EQ1 has grind only advancement, and its still doing well. Little to no reason to make an exact clone.
2. They increased the rare drops when harvesting.
Rare drops on harvesting were way too rare. I tradeskill and adventure and I have played since release. To date I've harvested a total of 5 rares. If you see no problem in this, given the fact that adeptIIIs and most rare crafted gear aren't even the best you can get then I have nothing further to say to you..
3. They seperated mitigation and aviodence.
This was just a cosmetic change. The way you take or avoid damage hasn't changed much. They only have altered the way you see the numbers. Baring the light and heavy armor mitigation increases, you still avoid/take damage exactly the same way.
4. Making mobs less likly to agro you.
Haven't seen much of this to be honest, please give some specific instances.
5. Decreased group debt.
This change really wasn't that big. Even with the old way, you hardly noticed the debt if one or two people died. The only way the old system had any significance to it was when the whole grouped whiped. Also, debt always decays, so any change here was mostly to make the new folks feel better. Also, lets take a look at death penalty in eqlive.. With all the tool of corpse retrival at your disposal death was already trivial once you got high enough for it to matter.
6. Added augmentations (the new rares).
Augmentations are hardly a huge change. Gives a nice boost to crafters and helps the adventurers feed their procing gear collection hobby. I've got 2 imbued dual wield weapons and a imbued bow. It helps, but its certainly not game changing.
7. Making some nameds and instances easier to win.
Completely disagree with this one. Most patches have made named and instances harder, not easier. With advent of names being immune to outdated weapons, the wiz/warlock balance made those npcs godly (nearly pissed myself when a BLUE non named caster one shotted my swash, that certainly never happened before), and all the raid mobs have recieved buffs to make harder to beat.
1. They made the game easier and easier by adding more xp for quests, solo, duo and small groups.
EQ2 was supposedly designed with the small group and soloist in mind. Those changes just brought it inline with what the game was supposed to be. Grinding is a great way to xp, and still is the fastest. Giving their playerbase an alternate way to advance is nothing but a good thing. EQ1 has grind only advancement, and its still doing well. Little to no reason to make an exact clone.
2. They increased the rare drops when harvesting.
Rare drops on harvesting were way too rare. I tradeskill and adventure and I have played since release. To date I've harvested a total of 5 rares. If you see no problem in this, given the fact that adeptIIIs and most rare crafted gear aren't even the best you can get then I have nothing further to say to you..
3. They seperated mitigation and aviodence.
This was just a cosmetic change. The way you take or avoid damage hasn't changed much. They only have altered the way you see the numbers. Baring the light and heavy armor mitigation increases, you still avoid/take damage exactly the same way.
4. Making mobs less likly to agro you.
Haven't seen much of this to be honest, please give some specific instances.
5. Decreased group debt.
This change really wasn't that big. Even with the old way, you hardly noticed the debt if one or two people died. The only way the old system had any significance to it was when the whole grouped whiped. Also, debt always decays, so any change here was mostly to make the new folks feel better. Also, lets take a look at death penalty in eqlive.. With all the tool of corpse retrival at your disposal death was already trivial once you got high enough for it to matter.
6. Added augmentations (the new rares).
Augmentations are hardly a huge change. Gives a nice boost to crafters and helps the adventurers feed their procing gear collection hobby. I've got 2 imbued dual wield weapons and a imbued bow. It helps, but its certainly not game changing.
7. Making some nameds and instances easier to win.
Completely disagree with this one. Most patches have made named and instances harder, not easier. With advent of names being immune to outdated weapons, the wiz/warlock balance made those npcs godly (nearly pissed myself when a BLUE non named caster one shotted my swash, that certainly never happened before), and all the raid mobs have recieved buffs to make harder to beat.
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