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The Ideal Trio?Follow
Enc's are great but never though of putting one in a trio, thanks for an interesting post
Scholar
49 posts
I'd choose zerker and scout over mage
Mages might be the ultimate dps..but i wouldn't go 40 levels without someone that can evac at level 25, give a group speed buff, and disarm traps. I feel like those are stuff that you'll need for the group to function efficiently. The only mage utility that I see being sometimes handy is group invis...
As for the healer..I really haven't looked into it.
Me(assasin) and my zerker friend + healer can take down group red con'd groups. But anything 8 levels or higher then me...i can only take them down when i do all my self buffs. This might be easier with a bard class since they get a lot of group buffs that can up their hit%. You'll lose some dps from my assasin, but then the zerker will gain dps from your group buffs.
Mages might be the ultimate dps..but i wouldn't go 40 levels without someone that can evac at level 25, give a group speed buff, and disarm traps. I feel like those are stuff that you'll need for the group to function efficiently. The only mage utility that I see being sometimes handy is group invis...
As for the healer..I really haven't looked into it.
Me(assasin) and my zerker friend + healer can take down group red con'd groups. But anything 8 levels or higher then me...i can only take them down when i do all my self buffs. This might be easier with a bard class since they get a lot of group buffs that can up their hit%. You'll lose some dps from my assasin, but then the zerker will gain dps from your group buffs.
you forget to tell what lvl you play at
ppl play this game differently and most who plan on playing for years to come dont really care if mages get evac later, the game caps out at lvl 200, i myself only look at the end result
Edited, Tue Mar 15 09:55:38 2005 by bukholt
ppl play this game differently and most who plan on playing for years to come dont really care if mages get evac later, the game caps out at lvl 200, i myself only look at the end result
Edited, Tue Mar 15 09:55:38 2005 by bukholt
Very true mr dread lord. Noone have a clue what any class get for cool spells at lvl 200 or 51 for that matter.
And thats why I recommend you choose the class you feel you have the most fun with.
Summery: A priest + fighter + dps is the most efficient setup. You can choose any of the subclasses without a major impact of your trio abilitys. You can trio any group to lvl 50 but it wont be as efficient playing for example mage+mage+mage group. But it is doable.
Choose what you find to be most fun.
And thats why I recommend you choose the class you feel you have the most fun with.
Summery: A priest + fighter + dps is the most efficient setup. You can choose any of the subclasses without a major impact of your trio abilitys. You can trio any group to lvl 50 but it wont be as efficient playing for example mage+mage+mage group. But it is doable.
Choose what you find to be most fun.
totally agree from a gameplay perspective, i only bash a little on ppl cuz i got burned at bit asking the same advice, no ill will intended.
I only police this thread because i genually want to help the guy, and he is asking for the ideal trio, not even that sure he is looking for a cookiecutter grp.
Although i do enjoy these class discussions :)
Edited, Tue Mar 15 10:55:43 2005 by bukholt
I only police this thread because i genually want to help the guy, and he is asking for the ideal trio, not even that sure he is looking for a cookiecutter grp.
Although i do enjoy these class discussions :)
Edited, Tue Mar 15 10:55:43 2005 by bukholt
I think you are flat wrong about cleric being a better healer class than the others. Don't know about druid, but played a shaman and cleric, so far into the 30s, and the shaman is just a better overall asset than the cleric.
Shaman have wards, heals, slows, dots. Yes the cleric has somewhat better heals, but not the versatility.
Healing isn't about how many hps your heal spell recovers, its about anti-damage. In other words, if you slow 12% on the mob, you are causing that much less damage to occur. If you can also add a little dps, its that much less time for the fight to last etc.
Plus, the shaman is a ton more fun (for me) than the cleric.
Maybe the cleric is still the optimal class to play for the "perfect" trio, but I don't agree. The other healing classes bring a lot of versatility that makes all the difference in the fight. As far as I'm concerned, the cleric class in EQ2 is almost as 1 dimensional as it was in EQ1. Any other healing class is more fun.
Also depends on if you are building a trio that will raid high end content or not.
Dread, you may think you are the ultimate expert (well you come across as thinking that), but the fact is, the player is more important than the class.
A good set of players can make any tank + healer + dps classes work, a bad set of players can't. If you hate the class you play, it couldn't matter less that they are "perfect" for the job. You aren't having fun, and what's the point in that?
Any advice that doesn't revolve around what's fun for the people is a bad idea. There's VERY few true powergamers, that really believe they only want to get to the high level. Given that these guys are barely level 9 and are asking on a message board about this stuff (instead of reading the parser sites etc) means that they aren't powergames, most likely.
Therefore a "perfect trio" for them isn't going to be the holy trinity of EQ1.
To the OP: you will do fine picking any tank + healer + scout, although you will want to consider certain ones more.
Berserkers and Guardians hold aggro best, Paladins and SKs don't do a bad job, just not quite as good. All 4 can tank well.
Healer - pick what you like, look at their spell sets. Do you want SOW or can you live without it? Do you want that person to only heal (healing is boring if that's all you ever do).
DPS - There's a number of options to look at in the scout area, including the fact that some scouts are better at decreasing their own aggro, and some are better at increasing their aggro. This can be important, if the tank goes down and you have a healer with limited AC/HPs, you may want your scout to be able to grab aggro. Or perhaps you want a scout that does maximum dps only. I can't give much advice on this, I picked a swashbuckler because I was duoing with a cleric and wanted the ability to grab some aggro.
Shaman have wards, heals, slows, dots. Yes the cleric has somewhat better heals, but not the versatility.
Healing isn't about how many hps your heal spell recovers, its about anti-damage. In other words, if you slow 12% on the mob, you are causing that much less damage to occur. If you can also add a little dps, its that much less time for the fight to last etc.
Plus, the shaman is a ton more fun (for me) than the cleric.
Maybe the cleric is still the optimal class to play for the "perfect" trio, but I don't agree. The other healing classes bring a lot of versatility that makes all the difference in the fight. As far as I'm concerned, the cleric class in EQ2 is almost as 1 dimensional as it was in EQ1. Any other healing class is more fun.
Also depends on if you are building a trio that will raid high end content or not.
Dread, you may think you are the ultimate expert (well you come across as thinking that), but the fact is, the player is more important than the class.
A good set of players can make any tank + healer + dps classes work, a bad set of players can't. If you hate the class you play, it couldn't matter less that they are "perfect" for the job. You aren't having fun, and what's the point in that?
Any advice that doesn't revolve around what's fun for the people is a bad idea. There's VERY few true powergamers, that really believe they only want to get to the high level. Given that these guys are barely level 9 and are asking on a message board about this stuff (instead of reading the parser sites etc) means that they aren't powergames, most likely.
Therefore a "perfect trio" for them isn't going to be the holy trinity of EQ1.
To the OP: you will do fine picking any tank + healer + scout, although you will want to consider certain ones more.
Berserkers and Guardians hold aggro best, Paladins and SKs don't do a bad job, just not quite as good. All 4 can tank well.
Healer - pick what you like, look at their spell sets. Do you want SOW or can you live without it? Do you want that person to only heal (healing is boring if that's all you ever do).
DPS - There's a number of options to look at in the scout area, including the fact that some scouts are better at decreasing their own aggro, and some are better at increasing their aggro. This can be important, if the tank goes down and you have a healer with limited AC/HPs, you may want your scout to be able to grab aggro. Or perhaps you want a scout that does maximum dps only. I can't give much advice on this, I picked a swashbuckler because I was duoing with a cleric and wanted the ability to grab some aggro.
Quote:
But i do agree that class balance is far from done, puls no one knows what future expansions will bring.
As for any fighter is good is flat out worng, my sk (lvl 32) can NOT hold aggro in a high dps trio grp, and will get the grp killed.
When you play a trio the healer and dps'er will spam, which makes aggro controle the key in my view.
Again this i my opinion, there are many roads to take.
As for any fighter is good is flat out worng, my sk (lvl 32) can NOT hold aggro in a high dps trio grp, and will get the grp killed.
When you play a trio the healer and dps'er will spam, which makes aggro controle the key in my view.
Again this i my opinion, there are many roads to take.
As a 35L SK i have no problem holding agro as long as I taunt thru whole encounter, and I have fad no problems with a fury as main heal. The only problem i have seen so far is people who don't know and don't care to learn how to play the game.
Don't spam heal or nuke till mob is below 80% or kiss your **** good buy hello revive. As MT your job is to keep agro, not dps or anything else, just keep agro and stay alive long enough for healer to heal you.
2nd thing is AC for tank, MT has to have good items for his level if you don't you die, simple. Spend the cash, do the quest's and get good gear. If you don't want to do that then play a finger wiggler.
3rd do everything in your power to get all your abilities and spells up to at least adept1 skill 3 if you can afford it.
So if everyone plays like they have a brain (yeah like that will happen) then a tank is a tank and a healer is a healer.
And yes some mobs are bad *** enough to make it so you have to have 2 healers. You know this game is not much diff the EQ as far as how to do things and I know most of you have played EQ.
Anyhow just my 2 coppers.
did you even read the the whole thing?
You are replying to best trio thread
If you pull a grp with 6 yellow ^^ mobs "with a trio" <-- please note, how i gods name is the healer not to spam?
/cheers
Sk's works dandy in a 6 man grp
So what you are saying is app1 is no good?
Wish i was as smart as you
That you would even suggest two healers in a trio says it all
You even discribe core problem yourself, if you use all your power on (ward, grp taunt, disease cloud, grp buffs), how much dmg do you do?
A zerker can almost do the same dps as a scout and hold aggro, and still you fail to see the sk's fall short in a trio, why do ppl always recomend the class they play themselves.
Edited, Tue Mar 15 14:14:12 2005 by bukholt
Quote:
Don't spam heal or nuke till mob is below 80% or kiss your **** good buy hello revive. As MT your job is to keep agro, not dps or anything else, just keep agro and stay alive long enough for healer to heal you.
You are replying to best trio thread
If you pull a grp with 6 yellow ^^ mobs "with a trio" <-- please note, how i gods name is the healer not to spam?
Quote:
As a 35L SK i have no problem holding agro as long as I taunt thru whole encounter, and I have fad no problems with a fury as main heal. The only problem i have seen so far is people who don't know and don't care to learn how to play the game.
/cheers
Sk's works dandy in a 6 man grp
Quote:
3rd do everything in your power to get all your abilities and spells up to at least adept1 skill 3 if you can afford it.
So what you are saying is app1 is no good?
Quote:
So if everyone plays like they have a brain (yeah like that will happen) then a tank is a tank and a healer is a healer.
Wish i was as smart as you
Quote:
And yes some mobs are bad *** enough to make it so you have to have 2 healers. You know this game is not much diff the EQ as far as how to do things and I know most of you have played EQ.
That you would even suggest two healers in a trio says it all
Quote:
As a 35L SK i have no problem holding agro as long as I taunt thru whole encounter, and I have fad no problems with a fury as main heal. The only problem i have seen so far is people who don't know and don't care to learn how to play the game.
You even discribe core problem yourself, if you use all your power on (ward, grp taunt, disease cloud, grp buffs), how much dmg do you do?
A zerker can almost do the same dps as a scout and hold aggro, and still you fail to see the sk's fall short in a trio, why do ppl always recomend the class they play themselves.
Edited, Tue Mar 15 14:14:12 2005 by bukholt
[quote]did you even read the the whole thing?
Yeah did
Quote:
Don't spam heal or nuke till mob is below 80% or kiss your **** good buy hello revive. As MT your job is to keep agro, not dps or anything else, just keep agro and stay alive long enough for healer to heal you.
You are replying to best trio thread
If you pull a grp with 6 yellow ^^ mobs "with a trio" <-- please note, how i gods name is the healer not to spam?
Yeah I know that what I am talking about to
Quote:
As a 35L SK i have no problem holding agro as long as I taunt thru whole encounter, and I have fad no problems with a fury as main heal. The only problem i have seen so far is people who don't know and don't care to learn how to play the game.
/cheers
Sk's works dandy in a 6 man grp
Works great in a 3 man group also
Quote:
3rd do everything in your power to get all your abilities and spells up to at least adept1 skill 3 if you can afford it.
So what you are saying is app1 is no good?
Must be good enough for your toons by all means carry on
Quote:
So if everyone plays like they have a brain (yeah like that will happen) then a tank is a tank and a healer is a healer.
Wish i was as smart as you
Good luck with that one, but I don't see it in your futureQuote:
And yes some mobs are bad *** enough to make it so you have to have 2 healers. You know this game is not much diff the EQ as far as how to do things and I know most of you have played EQ.
That you would even suggest two healers in a trio says it all
In we see that you have your mind set on being locked into 1 way of doing thigs, and yes I have played in 3 person group with 2 healers and done fine, maybe longer to kill things but still get it done. Open your mind and learn to have fun.
Yeah did
Quote:
Don't spam heal or nuke till mob is below 80% or kiss your **** good buy hello revive. As MT your job is to keep agro, not dps or anything else, just keep agro and stay alive long enough for healer to heal you.
You are replying to best trio thread
If you pull a grp with 6 yellow ^^ mobs "with a trio" <-- please note, how i gods name is the healer not to spam?
Yeah I know that what I am talking about to
Quote:
As a 35L SK i have no problem holding agro as long as I taunt thru whole encounter, and I have fad no problems with a fury as main heal. The only problem i have seen so far is people who don't know and don't care to learn how to play the game.
/cheers
Sk's works dandy in a 6 man grp
Works great in a 3 man group also
Quote:
3rd do everything in your power to get all your abilities and spells up to at least adept1 skill 3 if you can afford it.
So what you are saying is app1 is no good?
Must be good enough for your toons by all means carry on
Quote:
So if everyone plays like they have a brain (yeah like that will happen) then a tank is a tank and a healer is a healer.
Wish i was as smart as you
Good luck with that one, but I don't see it in your futureQuote:
And yes some mobs are bad *** enough to make it so you have to have 2 healers. You know this game is not much diff the EQ as far as how to do things and I know most of you have played EQ.
That you would even suggest two healers in a trio says it all
In we see that you have your mind set on being locked into 1 way of doing thigs, and yes I have played in 3 person group with 2 healers and done fine, maybe longer to kill things but still get it done. Open your mind and learn to have fun.
dont make this thread about you, its about helping someone with a trio advice.
Quote:
I think you are flat wrong about cleric being a better healer class than the others. Don't know about druid, but played a shaman and cleric, so far into the 30s, and the shaman is just a better overall asset than the cleric.
Shaman have wards, heals, slows, dots. Yes the cleric has somewhat better heals, but not the versatility.
Shaman have wards, heals, slows, dots. Yes the cleric has somewhat better heals, but not the versatility.
I'm a little weak on druids also, but the problem i have with my defiler vs my inq is that wards have their own ac, lets say a mob would hit me for as little as 100-150 dmg due to a plat tank high ac then a shammy ward would not consider my ac and use its own and the ward take 250-350 points of dmg, dropping it in 2 sec where as the inq heal ward dont prevent dmg but heal each time the tank is hit.
This mean that you get full heal, if you heal when the tank is low on health, i would say that if i replaced the defiler with the inq at same lvl the clr would come out with 40% more power to spare than my defiler.
inq got just as many debuffs as the defiler, but i fully agree that shammy class is much more fun to play.
I thinks slow is a bit tricky too, would you agree that 2/3 of a mob attacks are specials leaving 1/3 melee dmg? not sure about this but thats how it feels to me, which isn't much to slow.
The defiler rocks when it comes to dots :) really enjoy playing the class in a full grp where there's lots to do.
Remember we are trying to put together a cutting edge trio, but i really enjoyed reading your post a lot of good points
hey ellinghad,
thread kind of got hijacked... as far as your trio, keep these things in mind.
1) Choose the class you think you will enjoy most. If that is a swashy, do it up. they are a very versatile and rare class seen out there.
2) even though the warlock outdoes the scout as far as damage, that is not extremely noticeable until way into the end game and by then you will know whether you enjoy your scout or not.
3) having the 3 arch-types you have represented (priest, scout, and fighter) you will be a successful group as far as having fun no matter what. will there be instances where a different class would greatly up the efficiency of a current battle? sure, thats always the case, but only a very small % of the time. don't sweat this. go with what will keep your friends happy, excited, and willing play. THIS is most important, staying satisfied with your chars.
4) as far as what classes to play, like i said it won't really matter, but a nice solid combo is your swashy, zerker (for reasons posted above) and inquisitor (a very versatile plate-wearing cleric type). this is a solid combo and i think you and your friends will be very pleased with this choice if you go this route. again, this is just my 2 cp.
lets recap:
- choose the class you will have most interest in.
- don't bother yourself with the "a warlock will be 72.6% more efficient than your scout..." talk as this is only for statistician type players who have little else better to do w/ their day.
- regardless of what individual classes you and your friends choose, the priest-fighter-scout trio will suit you fine for 98% of situations you come across that are meant for a group of 3 players... hell, i travel around in a scout-priest-mage group and we can take just about anything else and other trio can handle.
good luck!
thread kind of got hijacked... as far as your trio, keep these things in mind.
1) Choose the class you think you will enjoy most. If that is a swashy, do it up. they are a very versatile and rare class seen out there.
2) even though the warlock outdoes the scout as far as damage, that is not extremely noticeable until way into the end game and by then you will know whether you enjoy your scout or not.
3) having the 3 arch-types you have represented (priest, scout, and fighter) you will be a successful group as far as having fun no matter what. will there be instances where a different class would greatly up the efficiency of a current battle? sure, thats always the case, but only a very small % of the time. don't sweat this. go with what will keep your friends happy, excited, and willing play. THIS is most important, staying satisfied with your chars.
4) as far as what classes to play, like i said it won't really matter, but a nice solid combo is your swashy, zerker (for reasons posted above) and inquisitor (a very versatile plate-wearing cleric type). this is a solid combo and i think you and your friends will be very pleased with this choice if you go this route. again, this is just my 2 cp.
lets recap:
- choose the class you will have most interest in.
- don't bother yourself with the "a warlock will be 72.6% more efficient than your scout..." talk as this is only for statistician type players who have little else better to do w/ their day.
- regardless of what individual classes you and your friends choose, the priest-fighter-scout trio will suit you fine for 98% of situations you come across that are meant for a group of 3 players... hell, i travel around in a scout-priest-mage group and we can take just about anything else and other trio can handle.
good luck!
I can't say it's the best trio, but a few friends and I have had a blast with a Defiler, Zerker and Bruiser. All of us are 24 right now and things may change as we get higher, but for Nek and TS this set up would work real well for yah.
One of the other posters said it best "Play what you enjoy". Figure on playing with other people, it wont always just be a trio. Have each of you play a toon you enjoy, and you will play the game longer.
Enjoy!
One of the other posters said it best "Play what you enjoy". Figure on playing with other people, it wont always just be a trio. Have each of you play a toon you enjoy, and you will play the game longer.
Enjoy!
Scholar
31 posts
This is all great advice guys, I will keep it all in mind. I enjoy any class as long as I am playing with my friends, so that isn't a big deal. It matters little whether I have a swashy or a warlock, either one sounds fun to play. As for tanks, I think the beserker sounds good with a cleric.
I appreciate all the help, and if you have any other tips I would be glad to hear them! Thanks :)
I appreciate all the help, and if you have any other tips I would be glad to hear them! Thanks :)
most welcome :) sorry we hijacked your thread a bit, a lot of good info from posters, you should be able to make the right choice for you from all this.
Happy hunting and good luck to you :)
Edited, Tue Mar 15 19:03:56 2005 by bukholt
Happy hunting and good luck to you :)
Edited, Tue Mar 15 19:03:56 2005 by bukholt
Scholar
31 posts
Many thanks! Same to you all :)
Let us know what you picked! :D
Another thing to consider as a good trio, imo the best is:
Warrior + druid + shaman.
Thats the trio I play.
Now why would I recommend this trio and say its the best?
Well, because that trio can take on the same mobs as Tank + Healer + dps. Mobs will take alot longer to kill.
'huh?' you say. I will explain why we love this trio.
If we want to make a full group we have the solid foundation to build from. We all know eachother in RL and trust eachother so there are not many screwups. If we add scout + mage + mage or scout + scout + mage to our group we can do just about anything.
People allways beg to group with us because we are the perfect solid foundation. People have grouped with us once and then said they never want to go back to their old standard group. Its fun and you make alot of friends.
So what Im saying is that a warrior + shammy + druid combo can take on most if not all encounters any other trio could only slower, but build a full group from that trio and you can take on red^^ nameds at lvl 40+. And finding people to fill up that group never takes more then 10 minutes.
If you never want more then 3 people in your group then its not a good setup.
But once again, find what class you enjoy the most and play it!
Another thing to consider as a good trio, imo the best is:
Warrior + druid + shaman.
Thats the trio I play.
Now why would I recommend this trio and say its the best?
Well, because that trio can take on the same mobs as Tank + Healer + dps. Mobs will take alot longer to kill.
'huh?' you say. I will explain why we love this trio.
If we want to make a full group we have the solid foundation to build from. We all know eachother in RL and trust eachother so there are not many screwups. If we add scout + mage + mage or scout + scout + mage to our group we can do just about anything.
People allways beg to group with us because we are the perfect solid foundation. People have grouped with us once and then said they never want to go back to their old standard group. Its fun and you make alot of friends.
So what Im saying is that a warrior + shammy + druid combo can take on most if not all encounters any other trio could only slower, but build a full group from that trio and you can take on red^^ nameds at lvl 40+. And finding people to fill up that group never takes more then 10 minutes.
If you never want more then 3 people in your group then its not a good setup.
But once again, find what class you enjoy the most and play it!
This is worth a read if you are going swashy, things might get better
Important part
Important part
Quote:
Among the balance issues we'll be looking into now and in the near future:
* Summoner pets, including the usefulness of various types of pets and the overall DPS and utility of mages.
* Priest balancing, including: wards vs. reactives vs. regens, both for effectiveness and aggro generation; warden vs. fury balance, etc.
* Evaluating melee damage to ensure that scouts outdamage fighters.
* Giving every artisan profession new and useful things to make, as well as ways to make their existing goods more desirable.
(If I didn't list your class or issue above, please don't assume we are ignoring you. Those are just a few of the big-picture balance issues we're looking at, not a comprehensive list.)
* Summoner pets, including the usefulness of various types of pets and the overall DPS and utility of mages.
* Priest balancing, including: wards vs. reactives vs. regens, both for effectiveness and aggro generation; warden vs. fury balance, etc.
* Evaluating melee damage to ensure that scouts outdamage fighters.
* Giving every artisan profession new and useful things to make, as well as ways to make their existing goods more desirable.
(If I didn't list your class or issue above, please don't assume we are ignoring you. Those are just a few of the big-picture balance issues we're looking at, not a comprehensive list.)
Quote:
Moorgard wrote:
We neither seek to keep players in the dark nor to protect information on what will or won't be fixed. While I can understand that not seeing something fixed that you consider important is upsetting, please don't be so quick to assume we have some sort of illicit motive or evil agenda. Our team takes communication seriously, and we are going to work harder at making it more consistent.
We'd love for everything in the game to work perfectly, and more than that, for every feature to be met with approval by all our subscribers. Of course, the latter in particular is an unrealistic desire. Even if there wasn't a single bug in this game, players would still disagree about whether aspects of the game were "right" or not based on their personal beliefs and desires.
There are often posts about how frustrating it is that bugs end up in the game, even after our QA department and external testers go through the features or content. We do work very hard to test new things added to the game, yet we can't test every possible case or circumstance that hundreds of thousands of players might uncover. That said, when bugs happen it is our responsibility, and we strive to fix them as soon as possible. Look through every one of the notes from our Live Updates (and most of the smaller hotfix updates as well) and you'll see that we address numerous issues on a regular basis.
We realize that some classes are upset about balance issues that haven't been addressed since launch. There are legitimate concerns, and while we have made progress in this area, many elements still need to be looked at. The community team gathers your class issues and feedback on a daily basis as part of our reports to the team, and I (along with Blackguard and Faarwolf) spend a lot of time with members of other departments discussing bugs, opinions, and ideas expressed on these boards and other community sites.
One of the things we've realized is that it's nearly an impossible task for a handful of people (i.e. the community team) to respond to every bug or issue that gets posted. That's why you're going to see more members of the EQ2 team (specifically, the ones who fix a bug or address balance issues) posting about what they're doing. We really do want to improve the way communication flows from the team to the players.
A big topic that will never go away (just see any EQ board for proof of that) is class balance. This is true not only because the game evolves, but because players develop an emotional investment in their characters. That attachment can make it hard for some players to objectively separate real issues from gut reaction.
Our initial approach with class balance has been to first look at issues on the archetype level. Changes to agility and strength, for instance, were necessary to bring scouts and fighters more in line with where we want them to be. Secondly, we've been fixing bugs with spells and combat arts, because you can't judge the full potential of a given profession if their abilities are not functioning correctly. At the same time, we've addressed some clearly broken aspects of particular classes that simply couldn't be ignored. In the case of berserkers, this meant a reduction in potency; in the case of wizards and warlocks, this meant a considerable increase.
Among the balance issues we'll be looking into now and in the near future:
* Summoner pets, including the usefulness of various types of pets and the overall DPS and utility of mages.
* Priest balancing, including: wards vs. reactives vs. regens, both for effectiveness and aggro generation; warden vs. fury balance, etc.
* Evaluating melee damage to ensure that scouts outdamage fighters.
* Giving every artisan profession new and useful things to make, as well as ways to make their existing goods more desirable.
(If I didn't list your class or issue above, please don't assume we are ignoring you. Those are just a few of the big-picture balance issues we're looking at, not a comprehensive list.)
And yes, we will continue to fix bugged spells and arts. But keep in mind that even when we get to the point where nearly every ability functions correctly, there will still be people on the boards who feel that particular aspects of their class are broken or imbalanced. That's simply a fact of MMO life: there will never, ever be a massively multiplayer game of this complexity in which every subscriber feels all aspects are balanced. Because, at the end of the day, balance is not a matter of numbers, but one of perception. These games are not math equations, no matter how many calculations lurk below the surface. They're living, breathing microcosms into which thousands and thousands of players make varying degrees of emotional investment.
Our job, then, is not just "find bug A, fix bug A, report bug A is fixed," but rather to respond to you on a personal, direct level. It's something we continually strive to do better, both on the community team and as a company. At the same time, we know that ultimately the proof comes not in our words, but in our actions. That's why we will keep on doing what we're doing: adding new stuff, making fixes, expanding the game world. We'll make mistakes, but we'll work hard to fix them. Hopefully if we keep on doing that, more and more of you will see that we're serious about making EverQuest II the best game we possibly can. Your feedback is a crucial part of that process, and it makes a difference in the development of this game every single day.
We neither seek to keep players in the dark nor to protect information on what will or won't be fixed. While I can understand that not seeing something fixed that you consider important is upsetting, please don't be so quick to assume we have some sort of illicit motive or evil agenda. Our team takes communication seriously, and we are going to work harder at making it more consistent.
We'd love for everything in the game to work perfectly, and more than that, for every feature to be met with approval by all our subscribers. Of course, the latter in particular is an unrealistic desire. Even if there wasn't a single bug in this game, players would still disagree about whether aspects of the game were "right" or not based on their personal beliefs and desires.
There are often posts about how frustrating it is that bugs end up in the game, even after our QA department and external testers go through the features or content. We do work very hard to test new things added to the game, yet we can't test every possible case or circumstance that hundreds of thousands of players might uncover. That said, when bugs happen it is our responsibility, and we strive to fix them as soon as possible. Look through every one of the notes from our Live Updates (and most of the smaller hotfix updates as well) and you'll see that we address numerous issues on a regular basis.
We realize that some classes are upset about balance issues that haven't been addressed since launch. There are legitimate concerns, and while we have made progress in this area, many elements still need to be looked at. The community team gathers your class issues and feedback on a daily basis as part of our reports to the team, and I (along with Blackguard and Faarwolf) spend a lot of time with members of other departments discussing bugs, opinions, and ideas expressed on these boards and other community sites.
One of the things we've realized is that it's nearly an impossible task for a handful of people (i.e. the community team) to respond to every bug or issue that gets posted. That's why you're going to see more members of the EQ2 team (specifically, the ones who fix a bug or address balance issues) posting about what they're doing. We really do want to improve the way communication flows from the team to the players.
A big topic that will never go away (just see any EQ board for proof of that) is class balance. This is true not only because the game evolves, but because players develop an emotional investment in their characters. That attachment can make it hard for some players to objectively separate real issues from gut reaction.
Our initial approach with class balance has been to first look at issues on the archetype level. Changes to agility and strength, for instance, were necessary to bring scouts and fighters more in line with where we want them to be. Secondly, we've been fixing bugs with spells and combat arts, because you can't judge the full potential of a given profession if their abilities are not functioning correctly. At the same time, we've addressed some clearly broken aspects of particular classes that simply couldn't be ignored. In the case of berserkers, this meant a reduction in potency; in the case of wizards and warlocks, this meant a considerable increase.
Among the balance issues we'll be looking into now and in the near future:
* Summoner pets, including the usefulness of various types of pets and the overall DPS and utility of mages.
* Priest balancing, including: wards vs. reactives vs. regens, both for effectiveness and aggro generation; warden vs. fury balance, etc.
* Evaluating melee damage to ensure that scouts outdamage fighters.
* Giving every artisan profession new and useful things to make, as well as ways to make their existing goods more desirable.
(If I didn't list your class or issue above, please don't assume we are ignoring you. Those are just a few of the big-picture balance issues we're looking at, not a comprehensive list.)
And yes, we will continue to fix bugged spells and arts. But keep in mind that even when we get to the point where nearly every ability functions correctly, there will still be people on the boards who feel that particular aspects of their class are broken or imbalanced. That's simply a fact of MMO life: there will never, ever be a massively multiplayer game of this complexity in which every subscriber feels all aspects are balanced. Because, at the end of the day, balance is not a matter of numbers, but one of perception. These games are not math equations, no matter how many calculations lurk below the surface. They're living, breathing microcosms into which thousands and thousands of players make varying degrees of emotional investment.
Our job, then, is not just "find bug A, fix bug A, report bug A is fixed," but rather to respond to you on a personal, direct level. It's something we continually strive to do better, both on the community team and as a company. At the same time, we know that ultimately the proof comes not in our words, but in our actions. That's why we will keep on doing what we're doing: adding new stuff, making fixes, expanding the game world. We'll make mistakes, but we'll work hard to fix them. Hopefully if we keep on doing that, more and more of you will see that we're serious about making EverQuest II the best game we possibly can. Your feedback is a crucial part of that process, and it makes a difference in the development of this game every single day.
More info from the SoE board for anyone following this discussion
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=14&message.id=3429
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=14&message.id=3429
Scholar
31 posts
To me it seems like inq/wizard/bezerker only because I hear that inquisitors get fire/cold resistant debuffs, which would greatly compliment the abilities of the wizard :)
5 posts
IMHO, there are no such thing as ideal trio. Anything can work out as a good trio if all three knows their character well, and how to use it. Of course, having a warlord is good as it have great DPS, but if the person do not enjoy playing a warlord, your trio is 50% gone. I am constanly dualing with my bf. He's a monk, and me a wizzy. We are dualing fine even without a healer, only that we cannot take higher level mob. But we are fine with it as we are both enjoying the class that we play, not the amount of exp we can earn in an hour.
Only problem we encounter is when we do access quests etc, but that is when you need to have a good guild with helpful guildmates to help each other out.
All in all, choose a class which you will enjoy. Only this way will you last the longest in the game.
Cheers,
Sheryl
Only problem we encounter is when we do access quests etc, but that is when you need to have a good guild with helpful guildmates to help each other out.
All in all, choose a class which you will enjoy. Only this way will you last the longest in the game.
Cheers,
Sheryl
This has become an elitist thread for the only reason to find the ideal trio, the OP
has gotten his advice, and this has become more of a class dicussion.
It has been stated many times do not choose a class if;
[li] It dont suit you play style
[li] You dont enjoy playing that class
[li] You will do almost as good with any setup
[li] This class will only get better at later lvls
[li] You can not be sure your setup will not be nerfed
[li] This class dont work well in a trio, but is more of a full grp class
there is a difference in a trio setup, may not be as great as in eq1 but its there
has gotten his advice, and this has become more of a class dicussion.
It has been stated many times do not choose a class if;
[li] It dont suit you play style
[li] You dont enjoy playing that class
[li] You will do almost as good with any setup
[li] This class will only get better at later lvls
[li] You can not be sure your setup will not be nerfed
[li] This class dont work well in a trio, but is more of a full grp class
there is a difference in a trio setup, may not be as great as in eq1 but its there
<lag post>
Edited, Thu Mar 17 07:43:28 2005 by bukholt
Edited, Thu Mar 17 07:43:28 2005 by bukholt
Scholar
31 posts
You are replying to his post, not mine, right? Just making sure :)... does mine sound good? I will enjoy playing any class as long as it is with my friends :)
Yeah hehe was replying to this
Would like to keep the discussion going, for the elitist looking for the best, since i feel there are a big difference between the combos i have tried :)
I love the whole do the same with half the ppl, im all about hard raids and small grps, dont really enjoy playing in a 6 man grp where every thing is so easy.
Quote:
IMHO, there are no such thing as ideal trio
Would like to keep the discussion going, for the elitist looking for the best, since i feel there are a big difference between the combos i have tried :)
I love the whole do the same with half the ppl, im all about hard raids and small grps, dont really enjoy playing in a 6 man grp where every thing is so easy.
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