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AoE vs MEZFollow
Does an AoE spell break a Mez if the mezzed mob is not directly targeted?
a biggg arguement over this was going on the main forum a while back.. honestly it never really was resolved...
thing I noticed playing my enchanter is simply this:
when I solo.. and take on a group of 2.. mezz one, and accidently do an AOE HO finisher, I'm getting hit by two mobs because mezz is broken.. UNLESS it's daunting gaze.. nothing seems to break daunting gaze...(gawd I love that spell) Fascinate however IS broken by any damage be it AOE, DOT, prick with a needle.. etc.. etc..
so, does an AOE break a mezz... it depends on the Mezz...
thing I noticed playing my enchanter is simply this:
when I solo.. and take on a group of 2.. mezz one, and accidently do an AOE HO finisher, I'm getting hit by two mobs because mezz is broken.. UNLESS it's daunting gaze.. nothing seems to break daunting gaze...(gawd I love that spell) Fascinate however IS broken by any damage be it AOE, DOT, prick with a needle.. etc.. etc..
so, does an AOE break a mezz... it depends on the Mezz...
Quote:
Does an AoE spell break a Mez if the mezzed mob is not directly targeted?
No it does not
AoE HO's do tho regaurdless if the mezzed mob is targeted or not.
Quote:
UNLESS it's daunting gaze.. nothing seems to break daunting gaze...(gawd I love that spell)
Daunting gaze is a stun not a mezz, hence damage doe not effect it.
It does not depend on the mezz if you are talking single target. All single target mezzes follow the same rules. AoE mezzes are a different story that I have avoided. They seem flaky and thank goodness not very needed up to this point for me.
To clarify a bit, we are fighting a 4-critter group. Tank takes on one, everyone assists. Chanter mez's the other 3 mobs.
I (also assisting tank) unleash my AoE DoT's, and...
I (also assisting tank) unleash my AoE DoT's, and...
There was an argument over if AOEs break mezzes?
Mez some mobs, cast Storm of Lightning? Or get someone else to use their AOEs?
To answer the OP's question.
Yes and no.
There are some AOEs, clerical ones that don't affect mezzes, but in general AOEs do break mezzes. Not just the AOE HOs.
Mez some mobs, cast Storm of Lightning? Or get someone else to use their AOEs?
To answer the OP's question.
Yes and no.
There are some AOEs, clerical ones that don't affect mezzes, but in general AOEs do break mezzes. Not just the AOE HOs.
There are 3 kinds of AoE.
There is true AREA AoE. It doesnt discriminate between whats in the encounter or what is mezzed. It will break mez. With the exception of AE Taunt, pretty much all melee AE is in this area.
There is encounter only AoE. It discriminates between in and out of encounter ( safe to use around baddies) and it will not affect mezzed mobs. All mage AoE spells fall into this category.
Then there is the combo version. This only applies to HOs. They only affect the current encounter but DO affect mezzed mobs and will break mez.
Mezzing everything then using AoE is just plain stupid. Its a waste of power. If there are 4 mobs and you mez 3 and then use your AoE then its only going to affect 1 mob. Just use your single target, cheaper spells.
Mezzing within an encounter is generally a waste of time and effort in the average group. If your group is struggling with yellow and you decide to take on an orange group, mez might be a good idea. But if your group is killing like the average group does, then mezzing everything does nothing but hinder.
Player vs. mob mentality NEEDS to be thrown out the window. Its now Player vs. Encounter. A group of 5 mobs is roughly equal to a single double up arrow of the same level. In fact, its a bit weaker. Things without arrows generally have a much harder time hurting the tank than mobs with arrows do. Without mezzing, priests usually use less power on a pack of group mobs than on a single ++ mob.
Try seeing a multi-mob group encounter as a softer target as far as HP and DPS goes. They do less damage on a whole and with everyone AoEing the group DPS goes through the roof taking them out quicker than the average single mob. The trade off is that they are harder for the tank to control. There is a bit more strategy involved in keeping them on the tank. Also in general AoE costs more power ut the fight ends faster. It evens out. Mezzing will make berserkers, summoners ( both of em), illusionists, and other classes only do a fraction of thier potential DPS in multi-mob situations.
That does not mean mez is useless. Its vital at some times. It can make a tough encounter possible, specifically bosses ( not raid mobs). It can make a poor or small group able to take on things they normally couldnt. The above only applies to the average group. if AoEing isnt going anywhere for your group, switch tactics to mez. See which is better for your situation and adapt.
My general rule of thumb is no arrows = no mez. If its an encounter of 2 single up arrow mobs, ill mez one and speechless the other which effectively makes the encounter wussified. 1 Mob is asleep and 1 mob is helpless to do anythign but his incredibly feeble ( when applied to a tanks armor or avoidance) normal melee attacks. If there are more than 2 mobs ( almost never has an arrow and if it does then only 1 and it is going to be fought first) then I speechless the arrow up mob and lay waste with my AoE and instruct the rest of the party to do the same.
Mezzing adds is a no-brainer. This is where we shine. Always mez an add :)
There is true AREA AoE. It doesnt discriminate between whats in the encounter or what is mezzed. It will break mez. With the exception of AE Taunt, pretty much all melee AE is in this area.
There is encounter only AoE. It discriminates between in and out of encounter ( safe to use around baddies) and it will not affect mezzed mobs. All mage AoE spells fall into this category.
Then there is the combo version. This only applies to HOs. They only affect the current encounter but DO affect mezzed mobs and will break mez.
Mezzing everything then using AoE is just plain stupid. Its a waste of power. If there are 4 mobs and you mez 3 and then use your AoE then its only going to affect 1 mob. Just use your single target, cheaper spells.
Mezzing within an encounter is generally a waste of time and effort in the average group. If your group is struggling with yellow and you decide to take on an orange group, mez might be a good idea. But if your group is killing like the average group does, then mezzing everything does nothing but hinder.
Player vs. mob mentality NEEDS to be thrown out the window. Its now Player vs. Encounter. A group of 5 mobs is roughly equal to a single double up arrow of the same level. In fact, its a bit weaker. Things without arrows generally have a much harder time hurting the tank than mobs with arrows do. Without mezzing, priests usually use less power on a pack of group mobs than on a single ++ mob.
Try seeing a multi-mob group encounter as a softer target as far as HP and DPS goes. They do less damage on a whole and with everyone AoEing the group DPS goes through the roof taking them out quicker than the average single mob. The trade off is that they are harder for the tank to control. There is a bit more strategy involved in keeping them on the tank. Also in general AoE costs more power ut the fight ends faster. It evens out. Mezzing will make berserkers, summoners ( both of em), illusionists, and other classes only do a fraction of thier potential DPS in multi-mob situations.
That does not mean mez is useless. Its vital at some times. It can make a tough encounter possible, specifically bosses ( not raid mobs). It can make a poor or small group able to take on things they normally couldnt. The above only applies to the average group. if AoEing isnt going anywhere for your group, switch tactics to mez. See which is better for your situation and adapt.
My general rule of thumb is no arrows = no mez. If its an encounter of 2 single up arrow mobs, ill mez one and speechless the other which effectively makes the encounter wussified. 1 Mob is asleep and 1 mob is helpless to do anythign but his incredibly feeble ( when applied to a tanks armor or avoidance) normal melee attacks. If there are more than 2 mobs ( almost never has an arrow and if it does then only 1 and it is going to be fought first) then I speechless the arrow up mob and lay waste with my AoE and instruct the rest of the party to do the same.
Mezzing adds is a no-brainer. This is where we shine. Always mez an add :)
Scholar
47 posts
It totally depends on the group you have. If you have a group that is set up something like SK, Zerker, Wiz, Warlock, Chanter, Healer...then there is no way in the world that chanter should be mezzing anything but adds. No arrow up mobs are AE bait plain and simple. A well rounded group should have no problem at all dropping them fast. In that situation the chanter should make sure breeze/haste is up and if they have mana to burn they should go dps. I am the biggest fan of having a chanter in my group in the world and mezz is a valuable skill...but not on big groups of mobs. It should be used for adds and 1-up arrows. 3 or more should be an AE party.
Edited, Tue Feb 22 11:01:58 2005 by Deviana
Edited, Tue Feb 22 11:01:58 2005 by Deviana
Quote:
There is encounter only AoE. It discriminates between in and out of encounter ( safe to use around baddies) and it will not affect mezzed mobs. All mage AoE spells fall into this category.
Thanks, that answers my question. Good tactics info also :)
Now I can unleash the fury, Mitch.
Scholar
34 posts
Quote:
There is true AREA AoE. It doesnt discriminate between whats in the encounter or what is mezzed. It will break mez. With the exception of AE Taunt, pretty much all melee AE is in this area.
There is encounter only AoE. It discriminates between in and out of encounter ( safe to use around baddies) and it will not affect mezzed mobs. All mage AoE spells fall into this category.
Then there is the combo version. This only applies to HOs. They only affect the current encounter but DO affect mezzed mobs and will break mez.
There is encounter only AoE. It discriminates between in and out of encounter ( safe to use around baddies) and it will not affect mezzed mobs. All mage AoE spells fall into this category.
Then there is the combo version. This only applies to HOs. They only affect the current encounter but DO affect mezzed mobs and will break mez.
Good info elmoreb, I agree with your assesment on breaking mez's but not necessarily all of your tactics. Personally I tend to mez any additional mobs we are fighting that have arrows, and I mez regular mobs if there are 3-4 or more, depending on how the group is. I guess a good rule of thumb is to just see how the group is going. If mobs are being dropeed in 10 seconds, obviously no mez needed, if your group is a little slower then mez a couple. I wish everyone would learn this info, it's a pain when no one ever understands
As a conjuror I find it annoying sometimes to group with alot of people playing Enchanters. I hunt dungeons quite often without a mezzer and it is not a big deal to have a group of blue mobs all attacking the tank. Why do Enchanters feel the need to mez all the adds and force people to not use there AOE spells? My two strongest dot spells are AOE, so it really does take my DPS down. Dots are all a Conjuror has, minus the pet of course. I mean paladins nuke harder then I do.
I can see mezzing groups of mobs when they are of excessive level, or when you get those groups of ^^ mobs. But there is just no reason to mez a bunch of easy mobs.
I can see mezzing groups of mobs when they are of excessive level, or when you get those groups of ^^ mobs. But there is just no reason to mez a bunch of easy mobs.
Hi
I'm glad to have mezzers in the group, even if we are up against blue or easy mobs. They may not need to mez all the time, but a few less hits against the tank or a few less agro against the healer is always a good thing.
They really shine against tougher groups for obvious and already stated reasons.
And from the info provided here, you have almost unlimited use of your AoE spells. When you get a mezzer in a group it might be a good idea to discuss the tactics you plan to use and come to an agreement. Make sure the group leader and tank also know your plan, as they may have expectations of both of you. :)
That brings to mind one last item: I've seen very few times where group members discuss spell/skill strategy. I've initiated quite a few with other members to get the most of our capabilities. But most of the time the plain rule of "DPS it to death" seems to always be the answer.
Very last point, it would be interesting to have more challenging (not just more hit points) mobs when fighting. How about these:
- When the mob gets to 50% health it runs to the next room to get help.
- Mobs cast debuffs.
- Mobs mez party members.
- Mobs root party members.
- Mobs blind (blank screen) party members.
- Mob teleports a member away from the fight to somewhere in the zone.
- Mob can disarm/disrobe a player.
- Mob casts illusion on members to look like the mob. Also changes your displayed name and "cloaks" your guild tag.
Some of these are already used, and others may be only at higher levels. But with combat twists like that you are less likely to just smash buttons - now you have to sit up and pay attention.
Ok, absolute last idea. :) HO's were created to add flavor and diversity to a fight, but I see less and less use these days. On HO's:
- Create a "combination" of sequential HO's that are required to reduce the mob past a certain point of hit points. Some mobs take HO's from the current group mix, others require a certain mix (i.e. fighter, scout, mage, and priest)
- Create non-combat HO's to achieve a certain effect: group buff (levitation, speed, inviso, etc), group teleport, access to magic-locked doors, etc.
They really shine against tougher groups for obvious and already stated reasons.
And from the info provided here, you have almost unlimited use of your AoE spells. When you get a mezzer in a group it might be a good idea to discuss the tactics you plan to use and come to an agreement. Make sure the group leader and tank also know your plan, as they may have expectations of both of you. :)
That brings to mind one last item: I've seen very few times where group members discuss spell/skill strategy. I've initiated quite a few with other members to get the most of our capabilities. But most of the time the plain rule of "DPS it to death" seems to always be the answer.
Very last point, it would be interesting to have more challenging (not just more hit points) mobs when fighting. How about these:
- When the mob gets to 50% health it runs to the next room to get help.
- Mobs cast debuffs.
- Mobs mez party members.
- Mobs root party members.
- Mobs blind (blank screen) party members.
- Mob teleports a member away from the fight to somewhere in the zone.
- Mob can disarm/disrobe a player.
- Mob casts illusion on members to look like the mob. Also changes your displayed name and "cloaks" your guild tag.
Some of these are already used, and others may be only at higher levels. But with combat twists like that you are less likely to just smash buttons - now you have to sit up and pay attention.
Ok, absolute last idea. :) HO's were created to add flavor and diversity to a fight, but I see less and less use these days. On HO's:
- Create a "combination" of sequential HO's that are required to reduce the mob past a certain point of hit points. Some mobs take HO's from the current group mix, others require a certain mix (i.e. fighter, scout, mage, and priest)
- Create non-combat HO's to achieve a certain effect: group buff (levitation, speed, inviso, etc), group teleport, access to magic-locked doors, etc.
I was in a caster group fighting in the TS riverbed. We took on a group of 3 skellies. The chanter mezzed 2 and my pet tanked the main.
I cast 2 DoT's and watched for any reaction from the mezzed skells. They did not take any damage nor did they break mez. Once we moved to the mezzed skell, we hit it and the mez broke as normal.
The payoff looks like: AoE does not break the mez, but it does no damage to the mezzed mob.
Anyone else seen this?
I cast 2 DoT's and watched for any reaction from the mezzed skells. They did not take any damage nor did they break mez. Once we moved to the mezzed skell, we hit it and the mez broke as normal.
The payoff looks like: AoE does not break the mez, but it does no damage to the mezzed mob.
Anyone else seen this?
1 post
Here is the fact...Mezz's are broken by AE, not stuns. Usually with multiple mobs on us I only use the stuns to hold mobs while recast on the Mez comes up, sooooo DO NOT CAST AE with an Enc in the group with multiple mobs, unless it is spoken of before the encounter.
My favorite thing is to finally mez the third mob and have ae break em all, now I have 3 mobs beating me while I try to recast.
Needless to say, Enc's don't take hits well so I wont last long.
My favorite thing is to finally mez the third mob and have ae break em all, now I have 3 mobs beating me while I try to recast.
Needless to say, Enc's don't take hits well so I wont last long.
Blue background AEs will break mez, as will AoE HOs.
Green background AEs will not break mez.
Blue AEs are mostly int he fighter and scout classes. They are the ones that will cause adds if used around other mobs not in the encounter ( hits EVERYTHING in a certain radius).
Green AEs only target mobs in that encounter and ignore mezzed mobs.
Green background AEs will not break mez.
Blue AEs are mostly int he fighter and scout classes. They are the ones that will cause adds if used around other mobs not in the encounter ( hits EVERYTHING in a certain radius).
Green AEs only target mobs in that encounter and ignore mezzed mobs.
I also noticed that red-background spells will break a root (Quicksand), while green ones don't. Good thing I got 5 DoT's pouring down on that Zek orc. :)
ooo DOTs!
Someone should start a thread of whether a particular DOT overwrites or stacks with another.
I really miss the Bio/Dia debates :)
Someone should start a thread of whether a particular DOT overwrites or stacks with another.
I really miss the Bio/Dia debates :)
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