I was wondering if the difference in tanking is noticeable with Guardian over other tanking classes IE: SK, Pally.
I have never had a guardian in a group and have always used either SK or Bruiser as MT.
Any one play SK and Guardian that could enlighten me on this?
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Well, I am not too sure if I would want to use a Bruiser as a MT unless the Bruiser was the only Fighter class in the group. Guardian/SK/Pally would be the first choices as MT.
The reason is that the 3 get to wear Plate armour, and Bruiser wear medium armour. Correct me if I am wrong !!
The reason is that the 3 get to wear Plate armour, and Bruiser wear medium armour. Correct me if I am wrong !!
IMO, (as a 37 healer)
Berserkers are probably my favorite tank, followed by guardians. Both are very solid tanks.
Paladins, and SKs do an OK job of tanking, but have a much harder time keeping aggro. Paladins are very dependent upon using power to keep aggro. I've grouped with a couple of very good paladin tanks, but on the whole, they aren't as good as the guardian/berserker varieties.
Monks/Guardians are really a DPS class that can tank when needed. They can't main tank yellow++ or higher reliably. They are fine in a 4-person team taking on a constant stream of blue++ and white++. Monks/Guardians generally outdamage scout and wizard classes.
Berserkers are probably my favorite tank, followed by guardians. Both are very solid tanks.
Paladins, and SKs do an OK job of tanking, but have a much harder time keeping aggro. Paladins are very dependent upon using power to keep aggro. I've grouped with a couple of very good paladin tanks, but on the whole, they aren't as good as the guardian/berserker varieties.
Monks/Guardians are really a DPS class that can tank when needed. They can't main tank yellow++ or higher reliably. They are fine in a 4-person team taking on a constant stream of blue++ and white++. Monks/Guardians generally outdamage scout and wizard classes.
I will deffinately agree the best tanks are the warrior sub classes. These are the guardians and berzerkers. I have a defiler and a bruiser so I know what it is like to heal a tank and I know what it is like trying to be a tank as a bruiser. If my defiler can have a guardian or a berzerker be the MT trust me she is happy. They hold agro better than any in the game. The berzerker beats mobs up pretty well while the guardian can really take a pounding. Paly/SK have a much harder time post lvl 20 or so holding agro, especially on multiple mob pulls.
The bruiser can do in a pinch and I rarely have trouble keeping agro. Where I have the problem is, as stated above, with the higher lvl mobs. Bruiser's are supposed to dodge blows and that's how they take punishment. However, it's pretty hard to dodge an orange^^ mob's swings so I get beat to hell.
The bruiser can do in a pinch and I rarely have trouble keeping agro. Where I have the problem is, as stated above, with the higher lvl mobs. Bruiser's are supposed to dodge blows and that's how they take punishment. However, it's pretty hard to dodge an orange^^ mob's swings so I get beat to hell.
ModernJoe said -
"Monks/Guardians are really a DPS class that can tank when needed. They can't main tank yellow++ or higher reliably. They are fine in a 4-person team taking on a constant stream of blue++ and white++. Monks/Guardians generally outdamage scout and wizard classes."
Sorry but this just ain't right. Guardians are NOT dps. I think you got confused between Guardian and Berserker in your post. Guardians are supposed to be the main defensive tank in the game.
"Monks/Guardians are really a DPS class that can tank when needed. They can't main tank yellow++ or higher reliably. They are fine in a 4-person team taking on a constant stream of blue++ and white++. Monks/Guardians generally outdamage scout and wizard classes."
Sorry but this just ain't right. Guardians are NOT dps. I think you got confused between Guardian and Berserker in your post. Guardians are supposed to be the main defensive tank in the game.
I agree with ModernJoe for the most part. I’m a 35 Pally. I’ll say Pallys aren’t as good as other tanks until level 38. Imo Level 38 Pally self buffs are better. However Pallys are still extremely gimped. Pallys can only use Kite and round shields. Mean while all the other tanks can use any shield they want. Clay shields normally have better stats then the kites shields that I’ve seen so far post 40.
Pallys can’t dual wield. Guess what? Every other tank class can. Also there are a lot of weapons we can’t use, armor and gear items other tanks can use but pallys can’t. I should mention the other tank classes can use the only gear options we have as well.
So in short Pallys are fun to play however very gimped on a lot of areas. As far as keeping aggro I experienced this a few times before I found out what I was doing wrong.
I used to pull a while back with Shout. I didn’t realize that shout would be out of range for some mobs. Now I wait until all the mobs reach the camp to fire off shout, I normally do a self HO with the shout. Then a shield bash. From there that’s it. I use my shout every 30 seconds when the timers up. I may taunt for a HO or if an HO has been completed. Or if a Wizzy is spamming fireballs, or if a bard is singing song buffs during the fight.
If your Pally losses aggro hes doing something wrong. Perhaps what I did wrong at first. If he’s using up a lot of power there’s something wrong. I use 15% per group fight at this level to taunt, shout and shield bash for the fight.. Any of that 85% can be used for backup healing or attacks. Ask him to stop if it's a problem. If it’s a good group I should have that 85% there all the time waiting for that add to come along.
Makes all the difference having power to ward and heal your self while the healer is out of mana. Can’t tell you have many times I would have died if I was another tank class. But I will say if I could do it all over again I would be a Zerker.
Pallys can’t dual wield. Guess what? Every other tank class can. Also there are a lot of weapons we can’t use, armor and gear items other tanks can use but pallys can’t. I should mention the other tank classes can use the only gear options we have as well.
So in short Pallys are fun to play however very gimped on a lot of areas. As far as keeping aggro I experienced this a few times before I found out what I was doing wrong.
I used to pull a while back with Shout. I didn’t realize that shout would be out of range for some mobs. Now I wait until all the mobs reach the camp to fire off shout, I normally do a self HO with the shout. Then a shield bash. From there that’s it. I use my shout every 30 seconds when the timers up. I may taunt for a HO or if an HO has been completed. Or if a Wizzy is spamming fireballs, or if a bard is singing song buffs during the fight.
If your Pally losses aggro hes doing something wrong. Perhaps what I did wrong at first. If he’s using up a lot of power there’s something wrong. I use 15% per group fight at this level to taunt, shout and shield bash for the fight.. Any of that 85% can be used for backup healing or attacks. Ask him to stop if it's a problem. If it’s a good group I should have that 85% there all the time waiting for that add to come along.
Makes all the difference having power to ward and heal your self while the healer is out of mana. Can’t tell you have many times I would have died if I was another tank class. But I will say if I could do it all over again I would be a Zerker.
37 posts
I'll just say that in my late teens, I have preferred the brawler tanking in groups I've been in. This was just confirmed last night, btw, so this is post AGI "nerf".
The brawlers' damage avoidance was jut uncanny. It was much easier and less power-intensive to keep them healed over a crusader tank in the same group of similar level.
I have a brawler alt, and have confirmed this from the tank's perspective as well.
All this may well change in the later levels with regard to the brawler sub-classes, but right now, they kick some riteous ***** ;)
The brawlers' damage avoidance was jut uncanny. It was much easier and less power-intensive to keep them healed over a crusader tank in the same group of similar level.
I have a brawler alt, and have confirmed this from the tank's perspective as well.
All this may well change in the later levels with regard to the brawler sub-classes, but right now, they kick some riteous ***** ;)
Just a guess, Lodakai, but you were either a Shaman class, or fighting whites/blues, or both?
Agility tanks seem to work great against waves of low to even lvl mobs while going easy on the healer. But as the lvl of the mob goes up relative to the monk/brawler, the damage avoidance gets less and less.. and they tend to get hit more. And when a Brawler gets hit it's like a scout getting hit... it hurts.
Likewise, an armored tank fights while taking more hits for less damage... so they do better against higher mobs.
But that's all just academic (read: irrelevant) Groups are pretty flexible, so just play the type of tank you want, fight the mob you want, and work out the details when you come to them.
Agility tanks seem to work great against waves of low to even lvl mobs while going easy on the healer. But as the lvl of the mob goes up relative to the monk/brawler, the damage avoidance gets less and less.. and they tend to get hit more. And when a Brawler gets hit it's like a scout getting hit... it hurts.
Likewise, an armored tank fights while taking more hits for less damage... so they do better against higher mobs.
But that's all just academic (read: irrelevant) Groups are pretty flexible, so just play the type of tank you want, fight the mob you want, and work out the details when you come to them.
37 posts
"Follier" wrote:
Just a guess, Lodakai, but you were either a Shaman class, or fighting whites/blues, or both?
Actually, I am a cleric, and we faced nothing below whites and yellows, with the occasional oranges. We were fighting in Blackburrow, and we cleared the Captain and Commander rooms several times. The crusader would run me out of power pretty quickly, while the brawler allowed me to pace myself. Granted, those rooms were always either yellow or white, but we killed several groups of orange spiders down below.
I also saw this while playing my own monk alt earler that evening. I was the main tank in a group with 2 scouts, a shaman and a cleric. One healer concentrated on keeping me healed, and I heard more than one comment about how it was taking little effort. One (I guess it was the shaman) even complained about not having had the opportunity to use their new "emergency ward", because I wasn't taking much damage.
This is all purely anecdotal, of course. Like I said, I won't be a bit surprised if that changes later in the game.
Lodakai wrote:
Actually, I am a cleric, and we faced nothing below whites and yellows, with the occasional oranges. We were fighting in Blackburrow, and we cleared the Captain and Commander rooms several times. The crusader would run me out of power pretty quickly, while the brawler allowed me to pace myself. Granted, those rooms were always either yellow or white, but we killed several groups of orange spiders down below.
I have seen this as well. per-20 I would rather see a brawler tanking. Unless the Crusader is where very good armour. And under lvl 20 you don't see that much. Plus if there is a shammie in the group with a Agi buff, there is pretty much nothing stopping this type of group. Unless you try to take on the Mother Spider in BB.
30 posts
Monks and Bruisers tank just fine thanks. I have tanked Orange Epicx2 before on my 42 monk and did just as well as any other fighter. If you have never played a monk/bruiser before you have no right to make observations based on that class, due to the fact that there are many more variables in ability to tank besides your class. All fighters are equal from a developer standpoint, unless we are talking about 50+ epicx3+ fights, in which case plates are the way to go.
1 post
I must agree with you. Bruisers and monks can make great tanks.
I am currently lvl 29 and i get asked to tank alot even with a Guardian or Berserker in the group alot of healers says I don't use up alot of power on heals. My avoidance atm is 75% and mitigation in 32.5% unbuffed and have 1725 health i use brawlers stance alot. in groups and soloing. I solo very well with very little down time. Soloed AQ 3 to 6 and been soloing D'Morte since lvl 25 the graves i can not do yet lvl 36^ red once they turn blue i will attempt and repost to tell how it turned out
for you who want to be a bruiser/monk do it. Awesome class
EQ II
Glyphics 27 Defiler/Shaman
Stormwalker 24 Guardian
Baleeb 29 Bruiser
_____________________
EQ I
70 Beastlord Astinx
70 Wizard Aplus
68 Necro Boxx
62 Enchanter Astonx
I am currently lvl 29 and i get asked to tank alot even with a Guardian or Berserker in the group alot of healers says I don't use up alot of power on heals. My avoidance atm is 75% and mitigation in 32.5% unbuffed and have 1725 health i use brawlers stance alot. in groups and soloing. I solo very well with very little down time. Soloed AQ 3 to 6 and been soloing D'Morte since lvl 25 the graves i can not do yet lvl 36^ red once they turn blue i will attempt and repost to tell how it turned out
for you who want to be a bruiser/monk do it. Awesome class
EQ II
Glyphics 27 Defiler/Shaman
Stormwalker 24 Guardian
Baleeb 29 Bruiser
_____________________
EQ I
70 Beastlord Astinx
70 Wizard Aplus
68 Necro Boxx
62 Enchanter Astonx
30 posts
At level 42 I have approximately 77% avoidance and 42% mitigation. When I throw on my short duration defence buffs, I get around 80% avoidance and 90% mitigation. Eat yer hearts out plate tanks. And by short duration I mean 30 seconds, even at 42 mobs are dropping in PF in about 1 min.
as far as taking damage gaurdians are the best (i have never lost aggro with mine either with the exeption of when we fight 3+ mobs) zerkers are pretty nice damage takers and they can deal some damage and hold aggro so i think they are pretty dang good. after 20 i think gaurdians are the best followed by zerkers and SKs
30 posts
No one class is the best tank, no matter what level. I don't care what anyone says it all depends on the skill of the player. Crappy player #1 plays a guardian. Good player #2 plays a monk. Who are you going to choose? When it is a level playing field, look at my last post. Oh, and I dont lose aggro either. Adept 1 single taunt and adept 3 AoE taunt make sure of that.
as far as tanks go if u dont MT or solo a lot at the begining then your going to suck becuase your defence/parry is gunna be to low. with monks/zerker its best to solo a lot at the beging so all the damage put-in/taken is on you and you gain offence and defence skills. at level 10-19 crusaders are naturally better at being MT, i had to work my dwarf warrior like hell to catch up to them in defence. but once you get gaurdian you get more defensive, and crusaders start to go even with other fighters. by level 25 your all evened out in your own way, gaurdians=very good defence, so they last long, zerkers=fair damage and have good defence so the beatings dont last as long, monks=uber dodgeing and good damge so they dont get hit often and they do good damage, and crusaders last but not least have good defence but they do more damage with there spells and can heal them self. it just comes down to how many hits you've taken/given and the armor/wepons u got on in the end.
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