well the other thing that leaves a glimmer of hope is that they havent put this live yet , and they tweaked it today , so they very well may just throw it out and it not go live at all .
<shrug> who knows
Luckily i havent leveled a crafter to any substantial level and im still sittin at 9 so im not crafting a thing till i see what they're gonna do with this .
btw ,/ot your avatar is funny nad, is that your own cat or something found online ?
Edited, Sat Feb 12 12:45:26 2005 by Geocide
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Not sure what the big deal isFollow
This would be nice, I can never afford the outrageous prices players expect for stuff I know costs them little to nothing to make. As a Outfitter this will be a great patch since once I hit tier 2 crafting I rely on alchemist big time (as well as scribers for the patterns).
I actually got the skills to make tier 2 stuff, just never the money to buy the stuff. I have seen burlap patterns and such around 1 gold each time I check the brokers. Thats why I am a 15 outfitter making raw hide to level lol.
I actually got the skills to make tier 2 stuff, just never the money to buy the stuff. I have seen burlap patterns and such around 1 gold each time I check the brokers. Thats why I am a 15 outfitter making raw hide to level lol.
Hi
Geocide wrote:
btw ,/ot your avatar is funny nad, is that your own cat or something found online ?
Thanks
Not my cat though, just found it online.I'd be SO mad if I'd leveled an alchie- and then this. All they really need to do is to have an auction house - there'd be products for sale all the time = prices wouldn't be so crazy because of increased supply - it would work. But... they really ought to let you reroll your character's artisan trait - cuz if he's an alch, what else is there? Do potions actually do anything useful now? When I experimented w/ them I foun them very expensive with sadly wimpish effects. Player poisons are okay but not better than vender-bought ones. Well...
Whoa, second vote for 'not too happy'.
I'm not a alchemist, infact I'm often dependant on them...but as a craftsman the only things that have been turning a decent profit (craftable that is) are the things that other crafters need such as quills. Since I can only carry one or two strongboxes, its not very much fun selling them.
They've made mob drops too plentiful for people to rely solely on armor and weaponsmiths. I like the drops, but I like support my fellow players and buy thier crafted goods.
For me atleast part of the fun was the interdependancy looking for the best prices and stuff, not to mention it builds a sense of community. If crafting is made too easy, then not only is it going to be harder to sell stuff, but some of the challenge is lost too.
I have up to this point been pretty happy with the changes, but this seems like an attempt to make the game a little too user friendly *cough WoW* If they wanna fix something, give us a Auction House. I bet if people didn't have to leave EQ2 on just to have thier chars sit in thier house, the economy would be better
Edited, Sun Feb 13 22:56:43 2005 by Bhobster
I'm not a alchemist, infact I'm often dependant on them...but as a craftsman the only things that have been turning a decent profit (craftable that is) are the things that other crafters need such as quills. Since I can only carry one or two strongboxes, its not very much fun selling them.
They've made mob drops too plentiful for people to rely solely on armor and weaponsmiths. I like the drops, but I like support my fellow players and buy thier crafted goods.
For me atleast part of the fun was the interdependancy looking for the best prices and stuff, not to mention it builds a sense of community. If crafting is made too easy, then not only is it going to be harder to sell stuff, but some of the challenge is lost too.
I have up to this point been pretty happy with the changes, but this seems like an attempt to make the game a little too user friendly *cough WoW* If they wanna fix something, give us a Auction House. I bet if people didn't have to leave EQ2 on just to have thier chars sit in thier house, the economy would be better
Edited, Sun Feb 13 22:56:43 2005 by Bhobster
People from other games, like FF, all swear by the AH - no complaints at all. I'm into WoW now - yes it's easier - thank Gawd it's easier - I mined 48 copper ores? I just find a forge, hit Create All and go make a sandwich. When I'm back I have 48 copper bars. Now that is my kind of kickasp tradeskillin! WOOT.
Anyway, the AH is central to the WoW economy, which seems very healthy to me. Moorgards comments about ... no AH for EQ2 to "protect the player economy" or some such utter tripe ... boo. Lies. Again, I'm convinced SoE beancounters are enforcing the "no AH" rule to force players to buy extra accounts to sell. I wanna see that guy's head on a pike before I come back to Norrath!
Meanwhile, Azeroth calls - have fun all - and stick it to Sony for that AH! You'll LOVE it!
Anyway, the AH is central to the WoW economy, which seems very healthy to me. Moorgards comments about ... no AH for EQ2 to "protect the player economy" or some such utter tripe ... boo. Lies. Again, I'm convinced SoE beancounters are enforcing the "no AH" rule to force players to buy extra accounts to sell. I wanna see that guy's head on a pike before I come back to Norrath!
Meanwhile, Azeroth calls - have fun all - and stick it to Sony for that AH! You'll LOVE it!
An Auction House would be nice. I played FFXI and it was good to be able to sell stuff without having to be logged in. Also, FFXI allowed you to sell stuff in your inventory that people could browse through if they ran into you anywhere. Both those options were nice.
As it is, I can't sell a thing, because all of the time I get to play will actually be spent PLAYING. I can't leave my computer on during the day while I'm at work or at night while I sleep, because I have this thing called a wife who won't let me. And is she being unreasonable? Not at all. I shouldn't have to leave a game running while I'm away just to keep up monetarily. Hopefully by the time I'm making/finding useful things to sell, some new way of selling offline will be introduced.
As it is, I can't sell a thing, because all of the time I get to play will actually be spent PLAYING. I can't leave my computer on during the day while I'm at work or at night while I sleep, because I have this thing called a wife who won't let me. And is she being unreasonable? Not at all. I shouldn't have to leave a game running while I'm away just to keep up monetarily. Hopefully by the time I'm making/finding useful things to sell, some new way of selling offline will be introduced.
It makes no sense- The make all these changes to gameplay such as increasing the drops, giving better solo exp, ect to accomodate the casual and/or solo player and yet the expect people to sit in thier house for hours on end to sell stuff.
>>pulls thread to the side<<
honestly the lack of offline selling though annoying is something I can easily live with...
what annoys me is that you must be online and *inside your house and nowhere else* that is the real killer...
simply remove the "in your room" part of the equation and that would solve a BIG bulk of the problems with the current system... afterall every quote from any dev is saying that the purpose for no offline sales is to prevent economic collapse... but think about it...
firstly I honestly have no idea what online status and in-game economy have to do with the other..
secondly, offline selling or AFK selling... what's the difference???!!!
but if they are going to slavisly delude themselvs into thinking offline selling is the bane of game economy, at the very least kill the "must be in your room" part of that equation...
<<neatly straightens out the thread again>>
as for the interdependencies thing, I've been thinking about this more as I played my predator this weekend.. I don't think it'll make anything easier, but it's going to certainly kill a LOT of the "cash cow" that people have currently.. the lack of offline sales limits your sub-component buying options to whomever is currently online, not AFK, and willing to make it for you.. if you're lucky someone afk is selling what you want, course how often does that happen?
With no way to search possible crafters and leave them a message making a request, the situation creates a staggering monopoly for the person you find willing to make your sub-components and considering the fact that people are inherently greedy, when given this chance to bend you over a barrel odds are they will, and will do so gladly, so I really do hope you enjoy the feel of rough hewn wood.
so now this new system is in the works which really all we have is educated speculation on but it seems to me as though if you choose to make all items yourself, you can do so.. just at a loss of money OR you can work with other players.. from the sound of things the old system isn't going anywhere unless you want it to... Choice is a good thing IMO. ^_^
This patch, if it goes live, could very well quickly level the playing field, people are less likely to overcharge when the person they're charging can quite easily make the item themselves at the cost of a little time, copper, and some fuel.. a modest upcharge for going through the trouble for someone is fine and acceptable but charging 5 to 10 times the value (or more) is a little excessive.. This will bring that practice to a screeching halt. Afterall if you're getting charged THAT much for sub-components, heck.. may as well make it yourself, take the hit on cashflow since it's less than "person X" was going to charge you by leaps and bounds, and at least get a little XP for putting forth the extra effort.
My taller half was wanting to make a carpenter.. but wasn't thrilled about it. There's effectively no market for a lot of the items so most of what you make is at a loss, that bugged her a bit but add to that someone ripping you to pieces on sub-components and it's just not fun.. Now however, I see her making the carpenter because it's something she wanted to do for fun, she couldn't care less about the loss of money on sub-components as long as she can progress and have fun without the restrictions of needing X item from Y person and praying they're online and in the mood to charge a fair price.. I thought jewler would be a lot of fun, but wasn't looking forward to having to hunt the crafter classes for sub-items, I was willing to deal with it but suffice to say I didn't work on my artisan much because every level brought me closer to forced interdependence.
I heard a lot of my friends choosing artisan classes based on: which one has the lowest dependencies and which one makes the most money. So needless to say, almost everyone I personally know is either a provisioneer or alchemist.
Edited, Mon Feb 14 12:01:19 2005 by Iaini
honestly the lack of offline selling though annoying is something I can easily live with...
what annoys me is that you must be online and *inside your house and nowhere else* that is the real killer...
simply remove the "in your room" part of the equation and that would solve a BIG bulk of the problems with the current system... afterall every quote from any dev is saying that the purpose for no offline sales is to prevent economic collapse... but think about it...
firstly I honestly have no idea what online status and in-game economy have to do with the other..
secondly, offline selling or AFK selling... what's the difference???!!!
but if they are going to slavisly delude themselvs into thinking offline selling is the bane of game economy, at the very least kill the "must be in your room" part of that equation...
<<neatly straightens out the thread again>>
as for the interdependencies thing, I've been thinking about this more as I played my predator this weekend.. I don't think it'll make anything easier, but it's going to certainly kill a LOT of the "cash cow" that people have currently.. the lack of offline sales limits your sub-component buying options to whomever is currently online, not AFK, and willing to make it for you.. if you're lucky someone afk is selling what you want, course how often does that happen?
With no way to search possible crafters and leave them a message making a request, the situation creates a staggering monopoly for the person you find willing to make your sub-components and considering the fact that people are inherently greedy, when given this chance to bend you over a barrel odds are they will, and will do so gladly, so I really do hope you enjoy the feel of rough hewn wood.
so now this new system is in the works which really all we have is educated speculation on but it seems to me as though if you choose to make all items yourself, you can do so.. just at a loss of money OR you can work with other players.. from the sound of things the old system isn't going anywhere unless you want it to... Choice is a good thing IMO. ^_^
This patch, if it goes live, could very well quickly level the playing field, people are less likely to overcharge when the person they're charging can quite easily make the item themselves at the cost of a little time, copper, and some fuel.. a modest upcharge for going through the trouble for someone is fine and acceptable but charging 5 to 10 times the value (or more) is a little excessive.. This will bring that practice to a screeching halt. Afterall if you're getting charged THAT much for sub-components, heck.. may as well make it yourself, take the hit on cashflow since it's less than "person X" was going to charge you by leaps and bounds, and at least get a little XP for putting forth the extra effort.
My taller half was wanting to make a carpenter.. but wasn't thrilled about it. There's effectively no market for a lot of the items so most of what you make is at a loss, that bugged her a bit but add to that someone ripping you to pieces on sub-components and it's just not fun.. Now however, I see her making the carpenter because it's something she wanted to do for fun, she couldn't care less about the loss of money on sub-components as long as she can progress and have fun without the restrictions of needing X item from Y person and praying they're online and in the mood to charge a fair price.. I thought jewler would be a lot of fun, but wasn't looking forward to having to hunt the crafter classes for sub-items, I was willing to deal with it but suffice to say I didn't work on my artisan much because every level brought me closer to forced interdependence.
I heard a lot of my friends choosing artisan classes based on: which one has the lowest dependencies and which one makes the most money. So needless to say, almost everyone I personally know is either a provisioneer or alchemist.
Edited, Mon Feb 14 12:01:19 2005 by Iaini
How is an Auction house going to ruin the player economy?
Player made items take money out of the economy, which I think is generally good in an MMO. Money transfer from player to player is a wash, less the fuel cost to make the item and any broker/AH fee, which goes out of circulation.
When people go to the AH to find something they're looking at the best item for their level and the price. They don't care whether it was made or found.
I'm willing to bet many non-tradeskilling players have no idea the broker even exists, or where to find him. Are there crowds of people around him searching for items?
So, putting in an AH and/or allowing offline selling can only increase the visibility of player made items, and therefore help crafters AND take money out of the economy.
The one thing I can see maybe happening is that crafters would end up with all the money. That would be one reason they need quested or dropped items of equal quality to crafted.
I'm rambling now, but I think the whole tradeskill game was at least as poorly thought out as this post :) The hope is they do seem to be working on it.
Player made items take money out of the economy, which I think is generally good in an MMO. Money transfer from player to player is a wash, less the fuel cost to make the item and any broker/AH fee, which goes out of circulation.
When people go to the AH to find something they're looking at the best item for their level and the price. They don't care whether it was made or found.
I'm willing to bet many non-tradeskilling players have no idea the broker even exists, or where to find him. Are there crowds of people around him searching for items?
So, putting in an AH and/or allowing offline selling can only increase the visibility of player made items, and therefore help crafters AND take money out of the economy.
The one thing I can see maybe happening is that crafters would end up with all the money. That would be one reason they need quested or dropped items of equal quality to crafted.
I'm rambling now, but I think the whole tradeskill game was at least as poorly thought out as this post :) The hope is they do seem to be working on it.
Quote:
People from other games, like FF, all swear by the AH - no complaints at all. I'm into WoW now - yes it's easier - thank Gawd it's easier - I mined 48 copper ores? I just find a forge, hit Create All and go make a sandwich. When I'm back I have 48 copper bars. Now that is my kind of kickasp tradeskillin! WOOT.
Anyway, the AH is central to the WoW economy, which seems very healthy to me. Moorgards comments about ... no AH for EQ2 to "protect the player economy" or some such utter tripe ... boo. Lies. Again, I'm convinced SoE beancounters are enforcing the "no AH" rule to force players to buy extra accounts to sell. I wanna see that guy's head on a pike before I come back to Norrath!
Meanwhile, Azeroth calls - have fun all - and stick it to Sony for that AH! You'll LOVE it!
Anyway, the AH is central to the WoW economy, which seems very healthy to me. Moorgards comments about ... no AH for EQ2 to "protect the player economy" or some such utter tripe ... boo. Lies. Again, I'm convinced SoE beancounters are enforcing the "no AH" rule to force players to buy extra accounts to sell. I wanna see that guy's head on a pike before I come back to Norrath!
Meanwhile, Azeroth calls - have fun all - and stick it to Sony for that AH! You'll LOVE it!
Why play at all? Heck lets have a game that I can just log onto and program what I want my toon to do..... lets see level 2 levels then go build x till I have a set amount and/or hit x level in that skill and heck I can go play CoD while all of this is going on. And people will pay money to have it easy :P
And then all of this on a forum for EQ2 and that person plays WoW?
Go figure
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