So all day yesterday while playing , the /ooc and crafter channel was filled with people complaining about the newest changes to tradeskills on the test server , and about how it will kill tradskilling if it goes live .
From what i gathered, all artisans will be able to make all components or something like that ? I read the patch notes for test server on the official forums but it still didnt make alot of sense to me .
Everyone was saying on /ooc and the crafter channel that it will kill alchemists but make all the other crafters happy . Does this mean that they are doing away with the attempt at artisan interdependence ?
As a "newb" crafter , can someone clarify this in normal terms ?
Thanks .
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- Not sure what the big deal is
Not sure what the big deal isFollow
Yes. According to the official boards, after the next big patch next week each class will be able to make all the subcomponents needed for their final product.
I find it amusing that all people have done is complain about interdependency from day one and now that it is going to be changed they are complaining about that too. Some people are never satisfied.
I find it amusing that all people have done is complain about interdependency from day one and now that it is going to be changed they are complaining about that too. Some people are never satisfied.
I'd like to bet some gold (which I don't have :/) that the ones who are complaining are the alchemists who took full advantage of the situation. I know many people that created alchemist alts (among other alts) just because of the interdependancy.
Although I agree that PC crafters should rely on each other to a certain extent... having to have been totally handicapped because of the intedependance is what turned me away from crafting.
*goes off to check out the patch notes*
Although I agree that PC crafters should rely on each other to a certain extent... having to have been totally handicapped because of the intedependance is what turned me away from crafting.
*goes off to check out the patch notes*
ok , I was correct then from what i was extracting from the hoards of complaints.
I started a crafter (lvl 9 so havent chosen what way to go yet )
just for something to do when im bored with lvling . And also so i could fill a demand for low level (teir 1 and 2) app4s that noone seems to want to make .
But I agree with Miaa, all i heard was how the interdependency sucked and now they are changing it and now that sucks too? Confuses me , but i guess it just boils down to " you cant please all of the people , all of the time" .
Seems to me the only people hurt by this are the alchemists that were price gouging for components. Seems that every other class or crafter actually will benifit from this . Dunno , will have to see when it goes live . Maybe spells wont be so friggin outrageously priced now :)
On my server app4s (when they are even on the broker) for t1 and 2 go for 50 silver or more . Thats like a 500% markup almost!
I started a crafter (lvl 9 so havent chosen what way to go yet )
just for something to do when im bored with lvling . And also so i could fill a demand for low level (teir 1 and 2) app4s that noone seems to want to make .
But I agree with Miaa, all i heard was how the interdependency sucked and now they are changing it and now that sucks too? Confuses me , but i guess it just boils down to " you cant please all of the people , all of the time" .
Seems to me the only people hurt by this are the alchemists that were price gouging for components. Seems that every other class or crafter actually will benifit from this . Dunno , will have to see when it goes live . Maybe spells wont be so friggin outrageously priced now :)
On my server app4s (when they are even on the broker) for t1 and 2 go for 50 silver or more . Thats like a 500% markup almost!
I think one of the reactions people have is...."I did it the hard way, now others will have it much easier" This was the case in EQ1 everytime they had a patch that made things easier.
I can guarentee that if there was no interdependency I would be a higher level Alchemist then 21.
As to the price gouging Geo mentions, I have not started making tier 3 inks yet, but I know the components to make them go for 5sp each, meaning to make 1 tier 3 ink it will cost me 15sp plus whatever consumables I need. Figure into it also that while crafting you are not out hunting and earning any cash. Also take into acount that the usefull advanced books go for over 5 gold and that cost needs to be covered as well.
As to the lack of availability, that is easy. Most advanced tradeskillers are guilded and already make many spell upgrades for free....so the only ones made for the market are for profit and tend to only be the ones we found to be the best sellers. No reason to carry around a spell no one wants.
I can guarentee that if there was no interdependency I would be a higher level Alchemist then 21.
As to the price gouging Geo mentions, I have not started making tier 3 inks yet, but I know the components to make them go for 5sp each, meaning to make 1 tier 3 ink it will cost me 15sp plus whatever consumables I need. Figure into it also that while crafting you are not out hunting and earning any cash. Also take into acount that the usefull advanced books go for over 5 gold and that cost needs to be covered as well.
As to the lack of availability, that is easy. Most advanced tradeskillers are guilded and already make many spell upgrades for free....so the only ones made for the market are for profit and tend to only be the ones we found to be the best sellers. No reason to carry around a spell no one wants.
they're doing away with crafter interdependence!!!! YES!!! there is a god!!!
I do toy with crafting but I do it in order to make things I want for myself, not to cash in because someone has to grovel at my feet to get what they need.
my Predator (going assassin) will be an alchemist to make her own poison.. course it sucked thinking I would have to go to a jewler to make the vials...
Juri will be a jewler at 20th but I wasn't looking forward to all the other hoops I would have to go through to get materials..
truth be told this is one of the best things I've heard all day as far as game goes. ^_^
I do toy with crafting but I do it in order to make things I want for myself, not to cash in because someone has to grovel at my feet to get what they need.
my Predator (going assassin) will be an alchemist to make her own poison.. course it sucked thinking I would have to go to a jewler to make the vials...
Juri will be a jewler at 20th but I wasn't looking forward to all the other hoops I would have to go through to get materials..
truth be told this is one of the best things I've heard all day as far as game goes. ^_^
37 posts
My understanding was that all classes will be able to do the refine steps, not all sub-combines. There will still be plenty of inter-dependence.
possibly..
but if it means my predator can make her own poison from start to finish..
and my scholar can make her own spells from start to finish...
without hoping to find a willing <insert tradeskill class here> person who's not going to price gouge me.. I'm all for it.
but if it means my predator can make her own poison from start to finish..
and my scholar can make her own spells from start to finish...
without hoping to find a willing <insert tradeskill class here> person who's not going to price gouge me.. I'm all for it.
well i can say that this has made my choice of which way to go with crafting much easier .
Was gonna go alchy , glad i didnt , now ill go sage cause then i should be able to be self contained(for the most part) :)
Was gonna go alchy , glad i didnt , now ill go sage cause then i should be able to be self contained(for the most part) :)
agreed.. I just *MIGHT* make a carpenter now or something off-the wall because I will not need to worry about the fact that 90% of the crafters are either alchemists or sages and I can't find a blacksmith to help with sub-components...
2 posts
well i dont like it.. it sounds good only problem i have is that from what i hear is the resell price will drop too..me as a 29 tailor i cant sell crap..90% of the stuff i make i sell to vendor..and with the fuel having levels..(from what i heard each tier has a differnt fuel)..i wont be able to aford to tradeskill without losing alot of money... and if you can make all the components to something you want..but you still need a differnt tradeskiller to combie it.. i think most will price gouge just to make up some of the loss..but never know it might be good.. just dont think it will...
32 posts
I think this post on the eq2 forums best sums up the impact of changes.
Supa,
I don't know why you say that we don't know the impact of the changes. Some of them are going to be obvious. It certainly does not level the playing field across classes. It hurts some classes and helps some others -- maybe.
There are two changes going in at once.
Firstly they have eliminated class interdepenency, That is a nice way to put it. More accurately they have removed business exclusivity from some classes and allowed everyone to make the product.
Secondly, they have completed changed the cost of fuel and the buy back formula.
This two changes are totally indepenent and their impact is very different. I will be very surprised if 50% of the tradeskill population agrees with number 2.
OK, now lets look at number 1.
Before the change certainly classes were not only having the opportunity to make finished product, but were also part of the supply chain on other classes finished product. as follows:
1) Armorer. Really did have much of a sub product market except carpenters might use some sheets of metal. The armorer end market is for plate and chain. Pretty awful before player hit level 20. After that it might be about 45% of the population can wear chain and plate. But armor is one of the more common drops and this might reduce the market by 1/3 or more. So if they are lucky 4 out of 10 players might by 2-4 pieces of armor from them once every 10 levels. The bad news is you don't know what to make until asked and there is no easy way for players to put buy orders in at the moment. NEW PATCH. They now don't have to find sub components to make stuff. So they are better off. But they are that great to start with.
2) Weaponsmith, Did not have much of a sub market at all, In addition weapon drops are some of the best. In the end they will be lucky if 1/2 the population buys one thing from the three times in the game. They now don't have to buy sub components. But they have one of the smallest markets anyway so who cares.
3) Tailor. Had a pretty good market before level 20, After level 20 only about 55% will be asking for woven or leather. But everyone needs back packs. Also had a bif demand for sub components but also need a lot of sub components. After the patch they are about the same -- better off on sub components, but also lost their own sub compoent market [I have a tailor.. I can tell you the Patch is about a wsh for me on the dependency side]
4) Provisioner. Not impacted by dependency change.
5) Carpenter. Big market for boxes, No sub component market. Little demand for furniture. The patch helps them.
6) Woodworker. Big sub component market [quills and paper, some staves]. No end market, the bow drops are great, few players have bows, most are used for pulling not damage. Shield salso have a great drops, much better than the crafter shields. Result of the patch is they now are the worst class. No one seems to want totems.
7) Sage. Sub market for patterns after level 20 is good. make all the spells for healers and mages. Needed a lot of subcomponents [paper, quills, inks]. Result of patch is definately positive.
8) Jewelers. Big money maker is jewlery and sub components. They also make scout spells. The needed inks from Alchemists. Net impact of patch is about even, but maybe a bit worse [lots of need for jeweler sub components]
9) Alchemist. Everyone needed sub components, Best class in game. Also makes spells for fighters. Also makes spells and potions, but ost don;'t buy them. Impact is to make them one of the sorst classes. They are definately worse than provisioner, sage, jeweler and tailor. They are better than weaponsmith and woodworker and armorer.
Now lets look at the cost change. You now only get the cost of fuel plus 20%. But on test at the moment its the cost of the fuel in the last step of the process, not the total cost. So everyone will lose money doing writs, selling to vendor etc. The only way to make money is to sell to players. That means the only way to level is to make things that sell to players [unless you are an alt with 3-4 plat to burn]. So this kills everyone but provisioner, jewler, tailor and maybe sage. The rest will probably lose significant amounts of money leveling [because there is not enough demand for the products].
Food may be trouble as well at t4 an t5. It can take 96 silver in fuel to make a t5 item. It last 3 hours if you don't die. Will someone buy a stack of these for 80 gold? how big a market will there be at those prices?
So.. you say give it a chance..... we don't know what will happen. I agree there is a lot we don't know, but what we do know is not too pretty anyway.
By the way, one of the fun things about crafting was the wheeling and dealing with other crafters.
Quote:
Supa,
I don't know why you say that we don't know the impact of the changes. Some of them are going to be obvious. It certainly does not level the playing field across classes. It hurts some classes and helps some others -- maybe.
There are two changes going in at once.
Firstly they have eliminated class interdepenency, That is a nice way to put it. More accurately they have removed business exclusivity from some classes and allowed everyone to make the product.
Secondly, they have completed changed the cost of fuel and the buy back formula.
This two changes are totally indepenent and their impact is very different. I will be very surprised if 50% of the tradeskill population agrees with number 2.
OK, now lets look at number 1.
Before the change certainly classes were not only having the opportunity to make finished product, but were also part of the supply chain on other classes finished product. as follows:
1) Armorer. Really did have much of a sub product market except carpenters might use some sheets of metal. The armorer end market is for plate and chain. Pretty awful before player hit level 20. After that it might be about 45% of the population can wear chain and plate. But armor is one of the more common drops and this might reduce the market by 1/3 or more. So if they are lucky 4 out of 10 players might by 2-4 pieces of armor from them once every 10 levels. The bad news is you don't know what to make until asked and there is no easy way for players to put buy orders in at the moment. NEW PATCH. They now don't have to find sub components to make stuff. So they are better off. But they are that great to start with.
2) Weaponsmith, Did not have much of a sub market at all, In addition weapon drops are some of the best. In the end they will be lucky if 1/2 the population buys one thing from the three times in the game. They now don't have to buy sub components. But they have one of the smallest markets anyway so who cares.
3) Tailor. Had a pretty good market before level 20, After level 20 only about 55% will be asking for woven or leather. But everyone needs back packs. Also had a bif demand for sub components but also need a lot of sub components. After the patch they are about the same -- better off on sub components, but also lost their own sub compoent market [I have a tailor.. I can tell you the Patch is about a wsh for me on the dependency side]
4) Provisioner. Not impacted by dependency change.
5) Carpenter. Big market for boxes, No sub component market. Little demand for furniture. The patch helps them.
6) Woodworker. Big sub component market [quills and paper, some staves]. No end market, the bow drops are great, few players have bows, most are used for pulling not damage. Shield salso have a great drops, much better than the crafter shields. Result of the patch is they now are the worst class. No one seems to want totems.
7) Sage. Sub market for patterns after level 20 is good. make all the spells for healers and mages. Needed a lot of subcomponents [paper, quills, inks]. Result of patch is definately positive.
8) Jewelers. Big money maker is jewlery and sub components. They also make scout spells. The needed inks from Alchemists. Net impact of patch is about even, but maybe a bit worse [lots of need for jeweler sub components]
9) Alchemist. Everyone needed sub components, Best class in game. Also makes spells for fighters. Also makes spells and potions, but ost don;'t buy them. Impact is to make them one of the sorst classes. They are definately worse than provisioner, sage, jeweler and tailor. They are better than weaponsmith and woodworker and armorer.
Now lets look at the cost change. You now only get the cost of fuel plus 20%. But on test at the moment its the cost of the fuel in the last step of the process, not the total cost. So everyone will lose money doing writs, selling to vendor etc. The only way to make money is to sell to players. That means the only way to level is to make things that sell to players [unless you are an alt with 3-4 plat to burn]. So this kills everyone but provisioner, jewler, tailor and maybe sage. The rest will probably lose significant amounts of money leveling [because there is not enough demand for the products].
Food may be trouble as well at t4 an t5. It can take 96 silver in fuel to make a t5 item. It last 3 hours if you don't die. Will someone buy a stack of these for 80 gold? how big a market will there be at those prices?
So.. you say give it a chance..... we don't know what will happen. I agree there is a lot we don't know, but what we do know is not too pretty anyway.
By the way, one of the fun things about crafting was the wheeling and dealing with other crafters.
interesting.. If I precieve this properly.. which I may not have..
it seems as though one can still have the class interdependence if you choose... or if you choose not to work with other crafters and make your own items from start to finish, you can.. just at a bit of a loss (in the cost of fuel for all the subcombines)...
hmm.... if that's truly the way it is.. I think I can accept it, since I tend to really dabble in crafting to make things useful to myself.. I suppose I'm just not in it for the money enough to let the net loss possibility be a problem for me...
Edited, Fri Feb 11 17:21:09 2005 by Iaini
it seems as though one can still have the class interdependence if you choose... or if you choose not to work with other crafters and make your own items from start to finish, you can.. just at a bit of a loss (in the cost of fuel for all the subcombines)...
hmm.... if that's truly the way it is.. I think I can accept it, since I tend to really dabble in crafting to make things useful to myself.. I suppose I'm just not in it for the money enough to let the net loss possibility be a problem for me...
Edited, Fri Feb 11 17:21:09 2005 by Iaini
I quit tradeskilling because of many reasons. This is one - yeah, right, I'm gonna invest all that button-mashing time, risking carpal tunnel syndrome - and have them come and pull the rug out from under me if I guessed wrong on class - which I knew was coming.
No auction house - therefore hard to buy and sell - yet forced interdependency - it was just illogical from the start.
The other thing that killed me was that your choice of trades was and is *permanent*. Why? Why not let people change skills but with a penalty? Hey, if I spend two years as a carpenter in RL and decide it sucks, I can go take classes and become a computer programmer, a nurse, or a basketweaver. I hate this system and the people behind it. Sorry, that's just how I feel. I'm so glad I'm out of this game... gr - wish they'd fix it so I could play it again - cuz parts of it I loved, but...
No auction house - therefore hard to buy and sell - yet forced interdependency - it was just illogical from the start.
The other thing that killed me was that your choice of trades was and is *permanent*. Why? Why not let people change skills but with a penalty? Hey, if I spend two years as a carpenter in RL and decide it sucks, I can go take classes and become a computer programmer, a nurse, or a basketweaver. I hate this system and the people behind it. Sorry, that's just how I feel. I'm so glad I'm out of this game... gr - wish they'd fix it so I could play it again - cuz parts of it I loved, but...
same here . I started my own crafter because i got bad responses to my semi-rant about there not being any low level apps on the broker ever.
All the responces were "make it yourself " ,so i am .
However , think if everyone starts to do this ... the player economy would suffer a devastating blow as noone would be going to anyone to get anything made . Just making it themselves :)
But oh well . i refer to my "standing in front of a train and shouting at it to stop" saying to describe this . hehe
All the responces were "make it yourself " ,so i am .
However , think if everyone starts to do this ... the player economy would suffer a devastating blow as noone would be going to anyone to get anything made . Just making it themselves :)
But oh well . i refer to my "standing in front of a train and shouting at it to stop" saying to describe this . hehe
hmm.. I can see validity in both arguements...
I suspect the economy will see several degrees of shakeups due to this, however fact is some people simply don't *want* to craft. period.. and I suspect that's a lot of the players out there.. so I think there will be a market for finished goods... it's the sub-component market that is about to get utterly demolished...
is there a way to prevent that.. hmm I'm not certain.. my highest crafter is merely 10th level (as I said I dabble at most) so I'm not certain...
however, making it such that people could change crafting class does seem like it would be a good idea... it would allow various degrees of flexibility.. and a LOT more of the other professions would make appearances if only for long enough for people to try them out... who knows, they may like them.
I think what got this all started was the fact that with the old tradeskill system it boiled down to: Alchemist, Sage, provisioneer, or don't bother really.. because you don't have much of a market and won't make much money...
so this is a reaction to that.. to allow people to explore tradeskilling options without the restrictions of sub-component hunting, so it's a very "casual crafter" friendly system.. which explains why I like it, but most of my hard-core crafter friends are not so thrilled.
quite possible.. no doubt a lot of the "dabblers" will be more likely to make it themselves instead of go shopping if the possibility to do so remotely exists, well that's this dabblers perspective anyway, since all my characters with any degree of crafting skills have skills that will arugment their adventuring class:
predator / scholar (to maker her own poisons and combat arts)
mage / scholar (to maker her own spells)
I made those choices because of the difficulty in finding the spell or item I want and when I did find it.. boy was it expensive..
the total non-crafters will probably still buy items however since they have no choice, though a few will likely give crafting a try due to this change and likely become dabblers...
as for the hardcore crafting crowd.. dunno what to tell you all.. the old system greatly benefited the skilled crafter with the ability to make deals and trades.. actually a somewhat more realistic system really, though I heard MANY complaints about the interdependencies....
I suspect the economy will see several degrees of shakeups due to this, however fact is some people simply don't *want* to craft. period.. and I suspect that's a lot of the players out there.. so I think there will be a market for finished goods... it's the sub-component market that is about to get utterly demolished...
is there a way to prevent that.. hmm I'm not certain.. my highest crafter is merely 10th level (as I said I dabble at most) so I'm not certain...
however, making it such that people could change crafting class does seem like it would be a good idea... it would allow various degrees of flexibility.. and a LOT more of the other professions would make appearances if only for long enough for people to try them out... who knows, they may like them.
I think what got this all started was the fact that with the old tradeskill system it boiled down to: Alchemist, Sage, provisioneer, or don't bother really.. because you don't have much of a market and won't make much money...
so this is a reaction to that.. to allow people to explore tradeskilling options without the restrictions of sub-component hunting, so it's a very "casual crafter" friendly system.. which explains why I like it, but most of my hard-core crafter friends are not so thrilled.
Quote:
However , think if everyone starts to do this ... the player economy would suffer a devastating blow as noone would be going to anyone to get anything made . Just making it themselves :)
quite possible.. no doubt a lot of the "dabblers" will be more likely to make it themselves instead of go shopping if the possibility to do so remotely exists, well that's this dabblers perspective anyway, since all my characters with any degree of crafting skills have skills that will arugment their adventuring class:
predator / scholar (to maker her own poisons and combat arts)
mage / scholar (to maker her own spells)
I made those choices because of the difficulty in finding the spell or item I want and when I did find it.. boy was it expensive..
the total non-crafters will probably still buy items however since they have no choice, though a few will likely give crafting a try due to this change and likely become dabblers...
as for the hardcore crafting crowd.. dunno what to tell you all.. the old system greatly benefited the skilled crafter with the ability to make deals and trades.. actually a somewhat more realistic system really, though I heard MANY complaints about the interdependencies....
In the short time that I have ben playing and crafting (still less than 2 months), I have only had a few items that I needed to buy from a stranger. However, in each case the player bent me over a barrel for an item I needed but could not make myself.
With this in mind, IMHO, the people who are going to take it in the shorts on this deal are probably the very same people who were committing acts of highway robbery by using common sub-combines sold for outrageous prices as a weapon.
If it no longer costs me 12 silver for some low quality iron widget that only an alchemist was previously allowed to make, I really don't have a problem with it. The fact that he can no longer rob me is just not a subject of remorse to me!
If these changes do kick a hole in the profit margin of the sub-combine market, let those folks learn to do what I have done... offer pristine/delectable quality finished goods.
There will always be a market for excellence. Just don't expect me to line your pockets for being too lazy to only deliver the bare minimum.
With this in mind, IMHO, the people who are going to take it in the shorts on this deal are probably the very same people who were committing acts of highway robbery by using common sub-combines sold for outrageous prices as a weapon.
If it no longer costs me 12 silver for some low quality iron widget that only an alchemist was previously allowed to make, I really don't have a problem with it. The fact that he can no longer rob me is just not a subject of remorse to me!
If these changes do kick a hole in the profit margin of the sub-combine market, let those folks learn to do what I have done... offer pristine/delectable quality finished goods.
There will always be a market for excellence. Just don't expect me to line your pockets for being too lazy to only deliver the bare minimum.
Quote:
With this in mind, IMHO, the people who are going to take it in the shorts on this deal are probably the very same people who were committing acts of highway robbery by using common sub-combines sold for outrageous prices as a weapon.
If it no longer costs me 12 silver for some low quality iron widget that only an alchemist was previously allowed to make, I really don't have a problem with it. The fact that he can no longer rob me is just not a subject of remorse to me!
If these changes do kick a hole in the profit margin of the sub-combine market, let those folks learn to do what I have done... offer pristine/delectable quality finished goods.
If it no longer costs me 12 silver for some low quality iron widget that only an alchemist was previously allowed to make, I really don't have a problem with it. The fact that he can no longer rob me is just not a subject of remorse to me!
If these changes do kick a hole in the profit margin of the sub-combine market, let those folks learn to do what I have done... offer pristine/delectable quality finished goods.
Amen brother !!!
The player tradeskilling situation and economy would be much improved by two simple - we're talking infant-simple - things:
one: make sure all skills make useful items that at least in some way shape or form are better than *anything* that drops.
Note, we don't have to go crazy here. An elixir that adds +2 bane damage for 30 min if "used" on your sword. Maybe only player made armor has a certain "look" - or has a useful once per hour clickable effect - or maybe only player made armor gives really good resist stats (for raids on fire-breathers, or frost breathers) - etc etc. Maybe same for player jewelry. It's as if the designers said "oh lets make a way cool player artisan system" but another group of designers said "***** player artisans, if we give them *anything* useful they'll mess up the game --- and then the supreme designer shuffled these two decks together. Okay, scholar, food makers, bag and box makers have markets... so many of them have literally *no* market at all. Bah. Awful.
two: create an "auction house" for players to sell off-line and/or while on-line.
The arguments that this will ***** the player economy are ABSURD - I used to post that I suspected the real reason for the on-line selling system is to force players to buy extra accounts to sell -- I was ridiculed by many for this - paranoid, Gnome - you're whacko. Well look, if you believe an AH will mess up the economy, ... nm - I'm not going to insult you. Trust me. In WoW the AH is glorious - wonderful - not one bad thing about it - the player economy is healthy and is healthy precisely BECAUSE of the AH. Anytime you need components, you're likely to find em there. I still have no proof that evil beancounters are behind the "no AH for eq2" situation, but what other explanation is there? (they're too busy to code it - maybe - but they are a large corporation and - what - they're not interested in a profit? Because they're Sony this somehow magically makes them too moral to try to hold the player up a little for some extra cash??? What about the 4 slot limit unless you pay more? Ooop - no- that's apples and oranges - oh, completely apples and oranges. Yeah right.
Well, have fun people. I sure am, and it ain't in Norrath. GL all!
one: make sure all skills make useful items that at least in some way shape or form are better than *anything* that drops.
Note, we don't have to go crazy here. An elixir that adds +2 bane damage for 30 min if "used" on your sword. Maybe only player made armor has a certain "look" - or has a useful once per hour clickable effect - or maybe only player made armor gives really good resist stats (for raids on fire-breathers, or frost breathers) - etc etc. Maybe same for player jewelry. It's as if the designers said "oh lets make a way cool player artisan system" but another group of designers said "***** player artisans, if we give them *anything* useful they'll mess up the game --- and then the supreme designer shuffled these two decks together. Okay, scholar, food makers, bag and box makers have markets... so many of them have literally *no* market at all. Bah. Awful.
two: create an "auction house" for players to sell off-line and/or while on-line.
The arguments that this will ***** the player economy are ABSURD - I used to post that I suspected the real reason for the on-line selling system is to force players to buy extra accounts to sell -- I was ridiculed by many for this - paranoid, Gnome - you're whacko. Well look, if you believe an AH will mess up the economy, ... nm - I'm not going to insult you. Trust me. In WoW the AH is glorious - wonderful - not one bad thing about it - the player economy is healthy and is healthy precisely BECAUSE of the AH. Anytime you need components, you're likely to find em there. I still have no proof that evil beancounters are behind the "no AH for eq2" situation, but what other explanation is there? (they're too busy to code it - maybe - but they are a large corporation and - what - they're not interested in a profit? Because they're Sony this somehow magically makes them too moral to try to hold the player up a little for some extra cash??? What about the 4 slot limit unless you pay more? Ooop - no- that's apples and oranges - oh, completely apples and oranges. Yeah right.
Well, have fun people. I sure am, and it ain't in Norrath. GL all!
I don't much care either way.
What I find amazing is the totAL U-turn.
This is a company that implemented a feature as part of the basic game design with all kinds of high flying reasons and now turns round and just cancels it out?
I think they are running scared.
What I find amazing is the totAL U-turn.
This is a company that implemented a feature as part of the basic game design with all kinds of high flying reasons and now turns round and just cancels it out?
I think they are running scared.
Wherever I go - there I am.
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The arguments that this will ***** the player economy are ABSURD
sure are , FFXI did it and their economy is just fine . Dont get me wrong, money is harder to come by compared to EQ2 but the AH and Inbox system still work just fine .
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What I find amazing is the totAL U-turn.
Yes it is interesting , but a bit scary . I mean , if they are willing to do such a turn around like this , whats next ?
Who knows , maybe soon there will be quests to change your class/artisan <GASP> or maybe even ... dare I say it... an AuctionHouse for offline selling !!!OMG
Scholar
42 posts
I think its ok, but me, being an alchemist, hope that the skills that have their caps raised when you lv are skills that pertain to your class. Like chemistry for alchemist and sculpting for carpenters. This would just delay interdependancy, and prolly not even really effect it. Would you want to try to use your chemistry skill from back when you were an artisan to make granum products? Lets see i can pay for the resource and fail 9/10 or i can buy the things ready made from the nieghbourhood alch! It is just going to make the crafting system like the adventuring system. Bear with me on this analogy. Wizard = Weaponsmith, Guardian = Alchemist. The wizard can tank, just as the weaponsmith can make tempers, but the guardian is far better at tanking just as the alchemist is far better at making tempers. They are removing CLASS interdependancy, but creating SKILL inderpendancy if this is the method they are going by. Neat idea, but kind of useless as past tier 2 the failure rate of making tempers and such will be monstrous and many ppl have already used the exploit to be able to make them.
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Who knows , maybe soon there will be quests to change your class/artisan <GASP> or maybe even ... dare I say it... an AuctionHouse for offline selling !!!OMG
While it might seem funny it is truly worrying. They have removed a part of the original design. Presumably this is in response to perceived player demand and under threat from other games. If they continue to feel threatened they will probably continue to implement perceived player needs and while you might think that would be good it will end up totally trivialising the game. For every positive you can think of there is a negative feature that there is a player lobby for.
We've already seen how they think faster exp is the answer to upset players.
Wherever I go - there I am.
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We've already seen how they think faster exp is the answer to upset players.
yes, i dont really care for the vitality bonus all that much, yah its nice sure. but really all it does it get you to 50 faster so you miss out an more content.all i can think of is this feature was added in because of WoW since they have roughly the same thing. for craftin tho its super nice havin the vitality bonus as craftin was some serious grind sessions gettin it up.
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For every positive you can think of there is a negative feature that there is a player lobby for.
yep cobra is quite right alot of good ideas to be had for the game and its direction, but also alot of the bad(with a ton of people calling for it).
in one way as a weaponsmith i cant wait for this to come live so i can go ********* all the jewlers who wanted 15-20s for a pommel or some other goods. as i have felt all along that something was needed to be done to fix interdependacy a little bit, this however i think is going to the extreams.
i feel that when i log back in a might send a feedback that runs along the lines of.
As a weaponsmith being severly dependant upon others to produce my goods and having such a small market. your possible change for the crafters seems way to extreame. i feel that it needs to run closer to somewhere in the middle where perhaps it is more evened out on dependancy and some other blah blah stuff.
if anyone can come up with a really could form to put in for /feedback then by all means please put it up im no english major so anything that can be done to get this noticed should be
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While it might seem funny it is truly worrying.
Yeah it is. I know i made a bit light of it , but i do see a trend of making the game easier and easier . However , I also see a trend of people complaining about how hard something is , and then when it gets made easier , they complain about that as well . So its like they cant win for loosing . Dont get me wrong , im not a SoE advocate, but I dont think offline selling would be so bad . If they were gonna make any massive change at all , an auction house where people could sell goods offline would be the best they could make .
Would strengthen the economy 10 fold just because goods that people need would be more readily available (including any components that you might need that you cant make yourself ).
From my understanding , alot of sub-components will still need to be made by other classes . I was lurking the channels last night and one guy seemed to have a real good handle on what this change effected. I guess he plays on test as well and says that , while the patch makes it easier on most all crafters, he still needs other classes to make certain subs . So I dont think they did away with it completely .
also it looks like they made it to where if you make a component that you normally wouldn't be able to make , it consumes more fuel since you havent mastered that skill. Just read that here
Edited, Sat Feb 12 11:52:45 2005 by Geocide
Well, put me on the "not too happy about this" boat. If I wanted a game more like WoW, I'd be playing WoW
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