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Why dont you wear a shield!?Follow
well alot of people seem to be saying that the sheild is the better combo and the dps is crap on it. wrong it depends on what weapon your using. and now thanks to one of th recent patches you can check the damage ratio of a weapon. sony has a formula to deterime the ratio of a weapon for each player. i am curetly using sharscar which as a ratio of 20.0 and some sheild i looted that give 375ac. i am doing more damage and lasting longer with this combo than with a imbuned pristine forged carbonite claymore. that has a ratio of 21.6 its beceasue in groups i am used as healer and mt alot of the time. becasue at late night theirs not alot of healers on but a heck load of rangers(no clue why this is) so having that sheild gives me added power and helps me heal my helf and keep aggro no prob. but with all theese agro abilitys, i have no prob what so ever keeping agro. ever from wiz lures. the whole seting of eq2 is to using and newbie friendly. and i must say i dont like it. i loved the dificulty of eq1 and thats what i was looking for in eq2. i realy loved xp loss and having to do corpse runs as it was added danger. but back to subject. its all up to the weapon ratio and the sheild your using. zerkers should never use sheild as it kills thair abilitys and dps potental. now your gona say dps dont matter ona tank. well the heck with you. zerkers need dps to keep hate and the sheild kills that. so depedning on class and situation use that feels right.
you would have loved me back in EQ1. my paladin never not used a shield...i figured hey i'm a friggin paladin, shields are part of our fluff.
my shadowknight on the other hand...yeah. he used 2-handers almost exclusively(partially because he was rarely the main tank). and the fact that he didn't really lose any output by casting between swings(offensive DOT spells will do that), wel...yeah.
i liked EQ(the golden days) because any heavy fighter could fit tank or damage dealer role and switch off in an instant and everybody would be happy...
nowadays...yeah.
my shadowknight on the other hand...yeah. he used 2-handers almost exclusively(partially because he was rarely the main tank). and the fact that he didn't really lose any output by casting between swings(offensive DOT spells will do that), wel...yeah.
i liked EQ(the golden days) because any heavy fighter could fit tank or damage dealer role and switch off in an instant and everybody would be happy...
nowadays...yeah.
Holy Necro-post!
Vermont posted 27 June
Gukagim replyed 07 November
...4+ months?
Vermont posted 27 June
Gukagim replyed 07 November
...4+ months?
4 posts
Personally i dont know why a little dps scout would care either way as long as the tank is keeping agro. So dont ever get in a group and tell me what to do there tough guy, unless i dont do my job.
I know my character and you know yours, i dont tell you to use a pig sticker instead of a sword, or to not use your bow. So sit your upity scout **** down and let us do our job.
Ilias
I know my character and you know yours, i dont tell you to use a pig sticker instead of a sword, or to not use your bow. So sit your upity scout **** down and let us do our job.
Ilias
Lets get down to the real matter behind this. NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ANOTHER PLAYER WHAT EQUIPMENT TO USE SO **** OFF!!!! I chose to play a guardian specifically because they are a dual wielding tank. I was not able to dual wield in eq 1 so I chose to play a tank in eq 2 that could. Hence it is my right to dual wield if I choose to. Furthermore there is little difference in the damage I take when I dual wield vs when I dont. Taking it a step further there are lots of things that everyone in a group can do to work more efficiently, but the standard is not perfection, the standard is if you are having fun and surviving. In addition if healers are complaining about running out of mana I say to you BUILD A BETTER CHARACTER. It is not your tanks fault that you are not on the level you should be ----eventhough nobody will tell the cleric that because everyone kisses their asses. I can't count the number of times I was in mpg with my pally in eq1 and the cleric was ******** about not having any mana and I would ask them how much they had. The response would inevitibly come back somewhere around 4500-5k. I had around 6 k at the time and I was getting ******* at by some pipsqueek wih 5? HEALERS HEAR THIS if your gear is not on the level it takes to handle a zone dont go there and ***** at the tanks for not using a shield
And yet...
There ya go crabbing at healers about how THEY should be playing their characters. Heh, kind of killed your opening statement eh?
There ya go crabbing at healers about how THEY should be playing their characters. Heh, kind of killed your opening statement eh?
Oktober Festivus
Multiple character player / Master of none
Multiple character player / Master of none
12 posts
It's pretty simple, DPS > damage per second..the more damage you do the more aggro you get. While i agree that a sheild does help with the bigger mobs, aggro is the tanks main concern. If by using a good DW weapon, < faster, more dps..then that would be the best combo for the tank to use in most situations. Now on the other hand if you have plenty of dps in the group/raid then yes, i agree that the MT should prolly use a shield....but why is this a big concern?? If the cleric knows how to play his/her char then there is no problem. If the cleric is brought into a zone that he/she cannot keep up in with the damage to heals ratio, then maybe they should rethink where they are agreeing to go. Personally that really pisses me off, in most cases the cleric is zoned out in la la land and i end up dying, then they wonder why they get kicked from the group. My advise is this. first, get a life and let the MT make his own choices, Two learn to play your toon and play in zones that you CAN keep up in, Three, if you dont like it, quit the bloody game and leave us tanks alone!! and please feel free to send me hate mail and call me what you want to, it wont change anything because i know how to play my toon and i know what situations need what weapons, so get off our backs.
8 posts
Dunno they game engine for eq 2 but while i was serkin in eq 1 I noticed that mass damage does shorten fights, most cleric heals I were getting were overkill heals any way, some of the best xp groups I had were mass melle dps groups cleric, and a bard all others packing the big guns. Most casters either think melleeing is so easy cause you dont need all kinds of complicated buttons, and crap like that they think cause they nuke for a couple grand once a min over shadows they 1/2/300's or more you dish out every second it is all situational, shield or not if you dont have a nice comfort zone with what and where you are hunting you might want to hunt stuff that you can walk all over and take the safe steady xp usually it will out pace the groups that try to take down the hardest mobs they can fight takes a few min then a few min to recover from it ???? id rather be fightin
nuff said im rantin
nuff said im rantin
1 post
All I have to say is this is a ROLE PLAYING game. To me, that means invent a persona for your character.... maybe the large conan-type barbarian wields a massive two hander to slice off heads. Perhaps the sprightly elven warrior wields two swords. Perhaps Sir Pwnsalot is encased in inch thick steel and carrys a shield just as impressive. Your play SHOULD match your characters persona, however far more players are concerned more about statistics that story these days, and prefer the efficient kill and will refuse to group with someone who is not upto their standards. Bring back the days of good roleplaying. PLEASE.
38 posts
Good discussion here. I have a L27 froggie Zerker, and he's very fun to play. My main is a illusionist, so it's a big change of pace.
In my experience, the descision to go 2-H, 1H and shield or Dual weild is infulenced by situation, group, and Loot. Loot is a huge one. If you come up on a 2H crushing weapon that is wayyy better then any of the other weapons you have, you'll likely end up using it. i remember in EQ1, when my Frog pally got his Ardent protector, a 2H greatsword that kicked major ***. It gave me such good stats, i was better off with it then going 1H and shield. In EQ2, the diffenence in gear isn't quite as drastic, but if you're not rich, access to weapons is a major factor. I didn't start using a shield till just recently, because i didn't have a good shield. After finishing Bloodsaber quests, i have a kite shield with 330 shield factor, and nice stats. Even though ideally i want to DW, My 2H imbued sword is much better then my DW weapons, and shield is great for tanking, so I alternate.
Group is big too. if I'm in a full group with 2 healers (or 3, like a group I was in recently), there's no point going with shield. 2H all the way, carve a path of destruction. the group needs more DPS(and keep in mind that zerkers are great at AoE DPS, as well as healing in combat), and the healers can keep me up without breaking a sweat. The extra DPS helps me keep aggro, and yes it does bring the mob down faster. In a group with let's say 1 healer and a few DPS classes, I go with shield and def stance, and let the taunts rip. There, it's best for me to lose a lil DPS so that the healer can heal me easier, since i need to stay alive, and DPS isn't an issue.
Finally, situation. Certain mobs have resists to types of damage, as hopefully everyone knows. I carry DW slash, pierce and crush, 2H slash, 2H crush, and 1h slash 1H pierce. If a certain mob is invlunerable to crush, I can switch to 2h slash. Or just start out DW 2 different dmg types, see which hits. So sometimes, my best option may be to go with another weapon, espically if i only have 1 1H dmg type.
Prety much, i think each tanking class is a little different. Paladins and Guardians excel with shields, Monk/bruiser dual weild or 2H and avoid, SKs love shields and 2H, and berzerkers can do all 3 well. Even if a zerker is taking more dmg from not using a shield, he's still probably regening health at a steady rate, and keeping agro on the mobs. When it comes down to it, it's really up to the tank. Good tanks will keep aggro and keep you alive, no matter what kinds of weapons they use.
But every great tank knows, when you're going up against the most difficult of enemies, always bring a shield.
In my experience, the descision to go 2-H, 1H and shield or Dual weild is infulenced by situation, group, and Loot. Loot is a huge one. If you come up on a 2H crushing weapon that is wayyy better then any of the other weapons you have, you'll likely end up using it. i remember in EQ1, when my Frog pally got his Ardent protector, a 2H greatsword that kicked major ***. It gave me such good stats, i was better off with it then going 1H and shield. In EQ2, the diffenence in gear isn't quite as drastic, but if you're not rich, access to weapons is a major factor. I didn't start using a shield till just recently, because i didn't have a good shield. After finishing Bloodsaber quests, i have a kite shield with 330 shield factor, and nice stats. Even though ideally i want to DW, My 2H imbued sword is much better then my DW weapons, and shield is great for tanking, so I alternate.
Group is big too. if I'm in a full group with 2 healers (or 3, like a group I was in recently), there's no point going with shield. 2H all the way, carve a path of destruction. the group needs more DPS(and keep in mind that zerkers are great at AoE DPS, as well as healing in combat), and the healers can keep me up without breaking a sweat. The extra DPS helps me keep aggro, and yes it does bring the mob down faster. In a group with let's say 1 healer and a few DPS classes, I go with shield and def stance, and let the taunts rip. There, it's best for me to lose a lil DPS so that the healer can heal me easier, since i need to stay alive, and DPS isn't an issue.
Finally, situation. Certain mobs have resists to types of damage, as hopefully everyone knows. I carry DW slash, pierce and crush, 2H slash, 2H crush, and 1h slash 1H pierce. If a certain mob is invlunerable to crush, I can switch to 2h slash. Or just start out DW 2 different dmg types, see which hits. So sometimes, my best option may be to go with another weapon, espically if i only have 1 1H dmg type.
Prety much, i think each tanking class is a little different. Paladins and Guardians excel with shields, Monk/bruiser dual weild or 2H and avoid, SKs love shields and 2H, and berzerkers can do all 3 well. Even if a zerker is taking more dmg from not using a shield, he's still probably regening health at a steady rate, and keeping agro on the mobs. When it comes down to it, it's really up to the tank. Good tanks will keep aggro and keep you alive, no matter what kinds of weapons they use.
But every great tank knows, when you're going up against the most difficult of enemies, always bring a shield.
7 posts
I'm a 40 paladin I wear a shield and a one handed weapon because the 2 hander dosn't give me enough extra points to justify it i much rather have the extra ac, my shield now gives me over 600 ac and i don't hit with the weapon much anyway's i use my high hit spell more.
14 posts
Allakhazam doesnt use shields , Shields use Allakhazam
2 posts
I play a 63 pally on permafrost, a 900 point shield adds 6 points of avoidance and no mitagation, not counting other stats. That said I always use a shield, for the knock downs to keep the mob on its butt (if it's on the ground it's not doing damage)
Ethion Honorblade 63 pally Permafrost
Vixena Nine 51 Ranger Permafrost
"If you want to hear laughter say /ooc pally lfg."
Ethion Honorblade 63 pally Permafrost
Vixena Nine 51 Ranger Permafrost
"If you want to hear laughter say /ooc pally lfg."
25 posts
all you tanks that are whineing about not DPS. u want to DPS and tank? Make a monk. other then that all i have to say is shut up and use your shield when the fight calls for it
2 posts
My 2 cents, DPS, Mitigation, blah, blah. This game first and foremost is about teamwork. You say the cleric keeps the tank alive, I say the tank keeps the group alive. One hand washes the other. Shield, no shield, you won't kill anything when your dead. Healers, MA's, DPSers, everyone should do their job, however like in the real world not everyone knows how.
I understand this is an old thread, so stop it already :p
I understand this is an old thread, so stop it already :p
Always use 1h + Shield Combo for harder fights. Easy mobs chain pulling Etc. just use yer judement. If yer healer cant keep up the heals switch over regardless. Weapon Choice isnt cut and dried its based on the factors present within a situation. I dont know how exactly it is in this game yet I havent been high end but in wow when I tank with my pally sometimes I have to switch to 2 hander to keep aggro from rogues who have no clue how to control there aggro. In this game it may not be an issue but in any case it doesn't really change the fact that each new group you git into will have different and sometimes worse players then others so go with what works to keep yer group alive.
60 Pal-Stormreaver
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70 Ranger-SZ
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60 Pal-Stormreaver
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70 Wizard-SZ
18 posts
After reading the title of this thread and reading about half of the posts, I had to post my opinion. I play SK's exclusively and this is my viewpoint of whether SK's should use them or not. Roughly 70-80% of our damage is from spells. We also have a shield based taunt that stuns the mob. I always use a 1HB or 1HS and the best shield that I can find. I also go offensive stance to boost my INT and DPS. I feel that the little bit of defense I lose from using offensive stance is more than made up for by the AC of my shield, the extra DPS from my higher INT causing my spells to do more damage, and slightly less damage that I take because of stunning the mob more with my shield bash. To me, the weapon is just flavoring. While it does do some damage, I focus on the AC/MIT and increasing my power pool and INT.
As far as the weapon goes, I focus on getting at least legendary or better quality since some mobs can only be damaged by these. I also try to get one that improves my three main stats of INT, STR, & STA. I also try to get one with some type of proc. Next, I try to get the one with the highest DPS, after evaluating the other more important things to me. Lastly, I go for the one that looks the coolest to me. I prefer the look of a flamberge or battle hammer for my SK.
I've tried 2-handers and am just not a big fan of them. My main is a 55 SK, due to me having alt-itise and being deployed to Afghanistan for a year. I consider myself a veteran player and this system has worked the best for me.
I'm looking forward to coming home soon and being able to play again. My main doesn't have a single AA/AP, but I have planned on going down the INT & STA lines. I'm thinking that the stuns from the kick attack, shield bash, and hammer ground AP ability will keep the mobs down for much of my fights.
For a SK, sword and board is the only way to go, in my opinion.
As far as the weapon goes, I focus on getting at least legendary or better quality since some mobs can only be damaged by these. I also try to get one that improves my three main stats of INT, STR, & STA. I also try to get one with some type of proc. Next, I try to get the one with the highest DPS, after evaluating the other more important things to me. Lastly, I go for the one that looks the coolest to me. I prefer the look of a flamberge or battle hammer for my SK.
I've tried 2-handers and am just not a big fan of them. My main is a 55 SK, due to me having alt-itise and being deployed to Afghanistan for a year. I consider myself a veteran player and this system has worked the best for me.
I'm looking forward to coming home soon and being able to play again. My main doesn't have a single AA/AP, but I have planned on going down the INT & STA lines. I'm thinking that the stuns from the kick attack, shield bash, and hammer ground AP ability will keep the mobs down for much of my fights.
For a SK, sword and board is the only way to go, in my opinion.
4 posts
why u think this?
Edited, Jan 4th 2007 2:07pm by nameyouusega
Edited, Jan 4th 2007 2:07pm by nameyouusega
Quote:
why u think this?
I don't even know how to articulate the immense disgust and pity I felt after reading this statement. Good lord man, do you live under a rock!
Quote:
Edited, Jan 4th 2007 2:07pm by nameyouusega
You even edited it and that was still the best you could come up with?
Just a post-count farmer, I reckon. Perhaps he believes no-one will believe his posts if he has a low post count.
Or, he's from a different game and is using the little-used Alla class threads to boost up the count, only to return to the FFXI forums from which he came.
Or, he's from a different game and is using the little-used Alla class threads to boost up the count, only to return to the FFXI forums from which he came.
I miss big race bash =(. It was fun Rping a dumb sk with a two-hander, but now that the rallosians are smart again, /sigh. wheres the dumb race when you need em?
Trolls hardly count now that they don`t have the jiggly but =/, if you know what I`m talking about then you to have either 2 boxed with a troll OR grouped with one pre luclin and had the audacity to stare at its butt when it ran. =(.
What does this have to do with shields? I'm not sure.
OFF TOPIC
Edited, Jan 16th 2007 3:12am by spoonofthebeast
Trolls hardly count now that they don`t have the jiggly but =/, if you know what I`m talking about then you to have either 2 boxed with a troll OR grouped with one pre luclin and had the audacity to stare at its butt when it ran. =(.
What does this have to do with shields? I'm not sure.
OFF TOPIC
Edited, Jan 16th 2007 3:12am by spoonofthebeast
Id like to start off by saying Thank you to GregorTheGreat. Bringing back a topic that was almost 9 months old is awesome.
Moving forward. With all the changes to tanking and what not I can see why some people would think that a two handed wepaon would be better. First of all, a shield will not effect your mitigation. Strange right? I ahve a shield with a Shield factor over 1100 and my mitigation doesnt got up a single %. It does however have some resistance to Piercing, crushing, and slashing, but still doesnt increase my mitigation. Insted the Shield effects my overall avoidances of damage outright. Because of this, a two hander will not look like much of a difference in defence to the naked eye, but will show a huge jump in DPS.
However, after grouping and tanking named mobs that are anywhere from 2 levels below my level, and 5 levels above I can tell you the shield will make a huge difference in a tanks abaility to take damage.
1. For most, the ability to Bash allows for a stun, some damage, and a taunt all in one hit.
2. The shield allows for extra avoidance allowing the tank to completely avoid damage outright. Taking no damage is always better then taking a little damage right?
3. The resistance and stats increase that comes with a sheild can out weigh the two handed weapon when tanking.
4. For the Warrior, a buckler allows for double attacks with your primary weapon, no longer reducing your overall DPS, and in some cases increasing it.
I tank with a shield for the Taunt coupled with the stun and nothing else. I use my two hander in groups when im not tanking, and in raids when im not tanking. For the simple reason that its more DPS, and less agro. It also procs a life tap that keeps my health in the green even when getting hit by a damage shield.
BTW, in responce to a POST back in 2005 about only using 2handers to make the fight quicker. You ahve either changed your tune sense then, or no longer play EQ2. Because in a way your right, once the tank has died and the rest of the group dies, the fight is over. That happens a lot faster without a shield on.
Moving forward. With all the changes to tanking and what not I can see why some people would think that a two handed wepaon would be better. First of all, a shield will not effect your mitigation. Strange right? I ahve a shield with a Shield factor over 1100 and my mitigation doesnt got up a single %. It does however have some resistance to Piercing, crushing, and slashing, but still doesnt increase my mitigation. Insted the Shield effects my overall avoidances of damage outright. Because of this, a two hander will not look like much of a difference in defence to the naked eye, but will show a huge jump in DPS.
However, after grouping and tanking named mobs that are anywhere from 2 levels below my level, and 5 levels above I can tell you the shield will make a huge difference in a tanks abaility to take damage.
1. For most, the ability to Bash allows for a stun, some damage, and a taunt all in one hit.
2. The shield allows for extra avoidance allowing the tank to completely avoid damage outright. Taking no damage is always better then taking a little damage right?
3. The resistance and stats increase that comes with a sheild can out weigh the two handed weapon when tanking.
4. For the Warrior, a buckler allows for double attacks with your primary weapon, no longer reducing your overall DPS, and in some cases increasing it.
I tank with a shield for the Taunt coupled with the stun and nothing else. I use my two hander in groups when im not tanking, and in raids when im not tanking. For the simple reason that its more DPS, and less agro. It also procs a life tap that keeps my health in the green even when getting hit by a damage shield.
BTW, in responce to a POST back in 2005 about only using 2handers to make the fight quicker. You ahve either changed your tune sense then, or no longer play EQ2. Because in a way your right, once the tank has died and the rest of the group dies, the fight is over. That happens a lot faster without a shield on.
14 posts
in a red con mob... if the tank isn't wearing a shield then they need to be shot. the amount of damage they produce in a group wont be worth much of anything if they are dead. I wear use my shield on almost every fight. only time I EVER equip a 2 hander is when A) Im not tanking or B) The mobs a *****.
if your tankin red con mobs with a 2 hander.... your retarted =D
if your tankin red con mobs with a 2 hander.... your retarted =D
1 post
Seriously I can't imagine why a plate tank, who is playing the role of main tank in a group would think using a 2 hander is even acceptable unless they are having issues holding agro.
a 1 hander with a shield in Offensive stance still takes less damage that defensive with a 2 hander. Where someone would get the idea that they take less damage when they drop 1100 AC or so rather than having the extra 1100AC is beyond me.
If you choose to group, your group members rightly expect that you fill your role; if in that group the role is tanking, then you should equip yourself accordingly and try to do a good job. I mean would it be acceptable to you if your healers decided they wanted to DPS instead of heal? No one has a right to tell you what to do.. right?
LOL.
Liydeac
Dark Knight of Sinister
Caedyil
Blessed Knight of Vita Infinita (retired)
a 1 hander with a shield in Offensive stance still takes less damage that defensive with a 2 hander. Where someone would get the idea that they take less damage when they drop 1100 AC or so rather than having the extra 1100AC is beyond me.
If you choose to group, your group members rightly expect that you fill your role; if in that group the role is tanking, then you should equip yourself accordingly and try to do a good job. I mean would it be acceptable to you if your healers decided they wanted to DPS instead of heal? No one has a right to tell you what to do.. right?
LOL.
Liydeac
Dark Knight of Sinister
Caedyil
Blessed Knight of Vita Infinita (retired)
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