Why dont you wear a shield!?Follow

Conan was a rogue.....

It is a bit funny for me to find this thread, and I am glad many of you back up the conclusions I came to as a Paladin in EQ2.

In EQ, I tanked as a warrior and used Dual Wield almost exclusively. YOu could still bash/slam the beasts without a shield, and using two weapons kept aggro while stunning the casters because you were constantly hitting them.

Now, EQ2 is different. What I did was examine all the spells and combat skills I had been given. The shield has a greater priority in this game, and it only makes sense to use it when tanking, especially in a large group. Anyone tanking should purchase or quest the best armor available (read High AC) and then in battle use the spells and skills to keep Hate while using the shield to keep yourself from being hit.

There are multiple ways to taunt...tanks should use them in a rotating manner, and let those finger-wigglers cast the spells that far eclipse any damage that could be done with a two-handed weapon.

As an old warrior once said to me when I was a lass growing up in Qeynos: "Stay humble, young one, for as a warrior you are nothing but meat."

Liajia
Antonia Bayle server

Zatranziz wrote:


This isn't EQ1. 2 handed doesn't mean more dps in EQ2, my current 1 hander has better dps than my current 2 hander.



All your ideas are based on EQ1, where 2 handers almost always did more damage than 1 handers. That's simply not the case in EQ2. In addition, with 200 or 400 more AC from the shield, you take less damage.

I duo my paladin with a shaman, I require less healing when I'm using a shield. We tested this, as apparently have many others in this thread.

Stop playing your EQ1 style in EQ2, it doesn't apply and it doesn't fit.



Or maybe they didn't want to group with someone who was this obnoxious? I played a cleric in EQ1, also a shaman and a druid, and I can't imagine TELLING a tank what weapons to use, but I certainly wouldn't quit if I gave advice and it was ignored. I don't like other people telling me how to do my job, I can't imagine telling someone else how to do theirs. However, from your story it sounds like this happened more than once and the person quit your group because of the discussion. I'm guessing there's a lot more to the story than you're letting on.

Oh wait we are talking about EQ2 not your life or what you did in EQ its NOT the same game.




And that will make it all better too :P

Look its real simple if your are the MT in my group your job is to get and keep agro and have the AC to stay alive long enought to recive heals and untill the mob is dead other then that who cares if you swing and hit for 100 hp its nothing when you compare it to the people who really put out the DPS, in fact I would say if you need nothing but taunt and stand there the mob would die no slower or fast then if you where hitting it.

The other simple thing is this is not EQ so nothing you have done in EQ is even related to what happens in EQ2.....nothing. They are 2 complete diff games with nothing in common but part of there names.

Another thing you do no more damage with that 2h then you do with a faster 1H. My SK hits for 50 to 130 with his 2h and hits for 22 to 65 (this are avg not going to argue about above or blow avg swings) with his 1H so how can one do more dps then other??? My 1H is fast my 2H is slow they bout work out to about 10% of each other depending on what level mob is. So you are talking about a very low amout diff. And is NOT going to be deciding factor on encounter sorry the tank is not the main dps, and never will be. And if you are doing HO's then you are not taunting.
On the other hand having a shield lets you block some income attacks all together. It gives you a higher AC, and there are some taunt type's you can not do with out a shield



Or maybe the tank is lacking? Most of the time thats what it is. If the cleric heals the tank and he gets beat back down how is that the healers fault? No it the tanks fault for having crappy gear and a low ac. Only time it would be the healers fault is if he missed a heal not if tank is just not up to mob.

When I tank I can tell you within 1 to 2 sec if I am out gunned in a fight. And no matter how good the healer is there is no way you are going to win. And I keep my gear at least in the blue to me most of the time orange.

The last point is kinda just thought to you.... This fourm is not for people to tell other people to STFU. I guess some people think they know everything about anything they do, well I can say ummmm no you don't. I don't and you don't so don't tell people to stfu, unless you want them to be telling you the same mr 2 posts.

Speaking from both the tanking and healing perspective (24 zerker 23 inquisitor) it is my opinion that in a grind fight, as in a standard xp fight, not a named, the main problem that often leads to group wipes is aggro control.

Though my experience is limited to deep Nek forest (i know its not that far), i think that this probably stays standard going through to a high level.

As a berserker, against a single mob, i will choose to use a 1 hander and shield. However, against multiple mobs I choose dual weild, all because of a skill called blood rage. It gives me the chance, on a successful hit, to do an aoe attack of around 50 damage to each mob in the encounter. This does not apply to guardians, but when one of those goes off it generates a considerable amount of aggro and does lots of damage. So long as i can keep aggro on the entire group, normally the healer has no problem keeping up unless its a particularly hard encounter. Perhaps it is my imagination, but i think that the wild swing (effect of blood rage) goes off much more frequently when im dual weilding than when not. Even if it does not generate more aggro, the amount of extra damage it does is considerable and i think its worth it just for that.

From my inquisitor's perspective, i have never had a problem not being able to heal a single person. The only difficulty comes when im having to heal myself, the tank, the mage and the rest of the group at the same time. So long as the tank can keep aggro, i can keep him alive. Perhaps this changes later on in the game, but i doubt it.

so i would say as a standard for zerkers, single mob encounters shield, group encounters dual weild. Just go for the combo that maximises aggro in the given situation.

just my 2cp, hope it helps

Just to had my view on this thread.

I am a lvl 23 Zerker and I have a lvl 31 Fury.
I have seen alot of people talking about DPS and that 2handers are the way to do it. So far at lvl 23 my 2hd weapons cannt match my Dual Wield in DPS...I hit with my 2hd weapons for 40-70 hps of damage and swing it only once compaired to 3-4 times on my Dual Wield weapons and with my Dual Wield spears I hit for 12-27 with one and 14-30 with other.I would rather hit a mob 3-4 times for less damage each hit and a higher total damage per round then to hit a mob once per round and have a high one hit output.

As far as sheilds when I am MT. I always use a shield. I just dont see a reason not too. You keep the argo and take the hits and let the group kill the mob. Haveing the Shield just gives me more AC and HPs and lets me do my job better.

As far as in higher lvl groups with my 31 Fury. There is a noticable difference in healing when a tank has a shield equiped then without one. Less mana used during a fight is less down time between fights and gives the group a chance to live if you get wandering adds. If you have ever been to Enchanted Lands or Rivervale then you healers now what I am talking about.

Edited, Tue Mar 8 15:01:37 2005 by Dedraco

dude if thats ur arguement then i guess i should take off all my armor to make me lighter, which in turn would make me faster so i do more dps. dudes ur a tank. some people dont understand what that means. in eq1 and 2 this means ur a piece of meat that is intended to get beat mersifusly( or whatever) until near certain death just to keep the members of ur grp alive. thats your job. as is the clerics to keep you alive. chanters are crowd control. assassins and wiz, are dps. and monk or bruiser are secondary tank. if you want to be a DPS class then make a scout. no what ur role is in a grp! it makes **** a lot easier and faster.

Im a pally(of course) and i will always use a shield unless im back up tank...then im giving grant of armanent to the MT anyways so it doesnt matter....but if your MT and not using a shield ill bop you on the head when i see you...not only do you get more AC...you get extra stats..a 2-hander gives you one set of stats...the 1-hander and the shield is 2 sets of stats...DUHHH

You missed a couple of points though Troodon. Shields actually give you a chance to block and a much higher mitigation level so that would make it even easier to keep you alive.

There is no cut and dry answer to the dilemna of "To Wear a Shield or To Not Wear a Shield."

Why? Because different situations call for different tactics.

Challenging battles = Shield Recommened

Farming Groups of Greens or Blues = Choice. Most blues and greens at level 22 (Paladin) rarely hit me and it is easily recovered by my Power Cleave ability that heals me upon a successful hit (2- hand required).

Soloing or Duoing = Choice, but 2 hander preferred. Which leads in to my response to those who say, "If you want DPS be a rogue" or "DPS is the job of the rogue." That's great... if you have rogue in the group. I think everyone is assuming an ideal situation of a full group, that is perfectly
balanced. In the past several months that I have been playing, a full group has been rarity. A balanced full group, as in a representation of all the ideal classes (whatever that might be) is even rarer. What is more common is soloing and duoing with (less commonly) a third.

Last night I duoed a x2 group raid encounter in Commonlands, Capt
Graek. The encounter was green to me and the level 21 Fury I was with. The battle was long and tough, but as the primary damage dealer in group, it was my job to kill the mobs as fast as possible, because the longer I stood there taking hits, the more power the Fury was using up. Worse, and this has not been seriously addressed in this thread, is that Capt. Graek had two
Oracles (healers) with him. I knew from first hand experience, if I couldn't deal enough damage and fast enough to overcome their heals, the battle was over.

I learned this the hard way going up through the levels and fighting in encounters where their were healers or the mob itself (Ancient Octopus) has the ability to heal and even ward. In this particular situation, sacrificing the damage output of the Dwarven Warhammer of Cleansing for the minor AC, stat, avoidance of a shield, but a substantially lesser damage dealing 1 handed weapon, would have cost me the fight.

As a Paladin, I have come to realize that my effectiveness is directly linked to my power. As long as I have power, I can heal myself, ward myself, and spam every damage dealing ability I have (solo/duo) or taunts, etc. (group). As soon as I run out of power, it becomes a slug fest that, unless I have established the upperhand in the beginning of the battle, will soon turn south.

As dynamic of game as Everquest 2 is, it is no surprise that there is no simple, "one" strategy for playing a class, that different situations call for different tactics.

As an aside, most of the rogue classes I have grouped with that are near or at the same level as I have not been able to match my damage output. The Rogues I have grouped with have fast DPS, but I have very high DPA that is substantially higher than their cumulative small attacks. A lot of times, especially against named mobs, it is very common for me to see "Immune...
Immune... Immune..." pop up above the mob's head. In fact, the only class that has been able to consistently out damage me, are the mage classes with their powerful nukes.

Yes, I understand that those players probably don't have the best gear and aren't playing their rogues to their highest potential. It is a very good example of how reality can have a good way of destroying well made theories that assume an "ideal" enviroment, with a good players that have to equipment and that play their charaters well, reality is far different. All of us will eventually be put into a situation where they have to play a role that they perhaps, did not intend to play, with their character. There has been times, that as a Paladin, and the only character with heal spells in the group, that I have become the primary healer as well as the tank.

Have fun, be flexible, and learn to overcome.

Edited, Thu Apr 7 17:56:59 2005 by Kallirye

*Kallirye swoops in to put the thread to rest*

I think you could copy those sentiments to every "Best Tactics", "Best Equip", Best Race/Class", "Best Class Combo", ... Best Whatever thread you come across. Then again, that could be a full-time job ^_~

As a side note, if you like that DPS you have now, try a bruiser ^.^ I wouldn't go tanking any Captain Graeks tho =P

Hmm, I am a Paladin Season 22 and I basically refuse to remove my shield. I haven't been playing long enough to really argue to the point that some of you have but I would have to agree that there is a formula involving ac to hit ratio. I used to wear a basic round shield and mobs would destroy me, even with all heavy armor. I went and purchased a kite shield that was much better for obvious reasons and now more difficult mobs don't touch me. OF course if you are doing more dps with two handed you will kill the mob quicker, but from a newbies perspective, I would rather take a little more time and not feel the pressure of the quick kill which becomes necessary for survival. But then again, I have been blessed by the gods, what do I care?

I play a 22 Pally named Cederik (Tox) and I initially used two hander exclusively thinking dps was more important that mitigation. Being new to the game it was a common mistake. Now at 24 i use imbued shield and imbued axe...best of both worlds.
Each Tank needs to find that balance...but keep in mind MITIGATION IS THE RULE...be kind to healers (without mana they are worthless...and so are you. A tank's only job in group is to get, keep and if nec retake hate from mob(s).

and now a bit of advice to the healers...dont assume that every tank is an experienced tank. Everyone was new to EQ2 at some point. Take the time to talk a little before entering a dangerous area (or instance or whatever). Establish roles (group leader's job). The singe worst thing i have seen is healers who want to be the group leader. This is a recipe for disaster if not carefully planned prior to committing. Tanks lead for a reason...they should be able to select app mobs and communicate their intentions to the rest of the group. Hot keys are awesome for this. At which point buffs are always appreciated by the tank. After that they should be taunting as much as possible.

for all others if you are an off(ALT) tank or high dps please stay as close behind the MT as possible. Buff the tank quickly after he states his intentions. Let the damn tank get the taunt in before you accidently steal the hate he is attempting to hold throughout the encounter. DONT wander around in dangerous areas around your group...eventually you will pull a mob (ADD). 8 out of 10 times a party dies to an add no one was prepared for that someone beside the tank pulls. Use the Walk in their tracks rule. and keep up with your tank...he should be walking not running through danger areas. dont block the tanks view...alt tank be ready to take up the MT role.