Dark E Sk or Isk SK ????Follow

I'm not dodging it, because it is. My reasons that it is miniscule is that it can be made up without much effort.

And no, if you think that wearing different armor will still keep your hitpoints, or anything for that matter, over someone else - then you are wrong again there.

As a Ratonga, I am going to concentrate on raw HP, STA, and STR for my armor. That will even me out without a problem and make my rat just as strong as your troll.

On the other hand, a troll may be lacking in wisdom and agility, in which case that person should be concentrating on those particular stats. If they are, indeed, working on the propper stats to clean up weak points, they will be neglecting their already strong points.

This is how you handle your character, and by you ignoring this fact prove that your previous comment of "better skill" was quite absurd and ignorant.

Thank you - please drive through.

Might want to keep track of resistances as well.

There are many reasons to raise different stats.

AGI no matter what tank class, is still very important.

I don't think I should need to remind someone of your skill, but raising HP and AC is a lot easier to do with items that rais those raw values. You may find a breastplate that has 25 STA, just for instance, and you find one with 200hp, or even just 100 hitpoints.

I am most certainly taking the raw HP over the STA stat increase. This is yet ONE MORE WAY to have a rat be a better tank than a troll.

So let's stop right here -

First let me address your hitpoints calculation before we go any further. You stated: "the difference between 15 and 30 stamina is freakin huge. That is 22.5 hitpoints every level. Multiply by 50 levels and thats 1125 hitpoints difference."

This is NOT how it works. For instance, take a look at this profile.

If indeed your calculation were correct, this level 46 guardian should have 103 * 1.5 = 154.5 * 46 = 7,107 hitpoints from STA alone. Then add in ROUGHLY 25-30 raw hit points per piece of armor he is wearing (25 * 17 = 1,775) add that to his calculated STA only hitpoints to get a total of: 8,882 hp. That math seems wrong to me.

The way STA works is it adds X number of HP per 1 point of STA once, not per level as you suggest.

Your level and your class has an HP modifier to it, that, when naked, and with equal stamina at an equal level in the same class, two people should have the exact same HP.

Your original point was that Race matters because of starting stats.

Troll: STR:25, AGI:18, STA:30, INT:10, WIS:17
Ratonga: STR:10, AGI:30, STA:15, INT:25, WIS:20

Ok, there are some differences in starting stats, that is a given without a doubt. But when you re-evaluate how you were calculating STA into Hitpoints, the difference in the endgame becomes MINISCULE.

Do I need to go further into explaining this? Does everyone get it other than you? I am not TRYING to be an *** about it, but you come in here claiming you know the secrets to being a good class and that race playes some big role in it, then try to back it up with made up numbers. Sorry, but you sir are wrong.

Again, WHY WOULD A GUARDIAN NEED WIS? Saying "there are lots of reason to raise stats" is not an answer.

an answer as to why a guardian nah, why every jobs should want wisdom. (btw this is why basically every good shield provides mass wisdom is to protect your *** vs spells.. i may not use a shield myself but that does not mean i dont see what they could do for me if i wanted to use one to boost my wisdom)

if you read the manual over stats to see what they do you will notice that wisdom is BOTH the accuracy and evasion of spells. higher wisdom would thus = a higher ability to resist the spell being cast at you. going back to the point that if you dont get hit you dont need the hps. trolls have ok wisdom but your agility sucks, there for you prolly get parried/riposted somewhat more often than a rat would and gettin riposted = more of your trolls vaunted hp's being used up.

and as for rats tankin better than trolls well they have higher agility then a troll so they will take fewer hits per battle than the troll thus not needin the higher hps. however if a troll focus some of his equip towards making up for his lack of agi instead of buffin his str up more then the differnce = out. cuz a rat will most likely get equip for more stamina and strength. like i had stated in a previous post you can use equip to build on your strengths or to upgrade your weakness's an turnin a weakness into a strength. if all you ever do is worry on str an sta an never on anything else you'll end up strong an able to do close to max weapon damage each hit sure, but then the poor healer will end up outa power each time just healin all those hp's back up

Edited, Thu Feb 10 13:30:21 2005 by Xaeroo

And I don't think ole GXM needs any help arguing with me. He has made his bed now he can lie in it.

That is good to know, thanks. I'm curious why GXM didn't point that out. Hmmm. Ok then, I'll ask the question: Why would a Guardian need INT? After all, GXM said there are reasons to increase all stats.

On a side note, the WIS thing might be something not completely implemented too, or partially/completely hidden. For example, STR is supposed to affect your attack. Yet if you add/subtract STR equipment your attack number stays the same. It appears as though your melee attack is based solely on your weapon's damage, which I know is not correct because if you fight a monster once with STR eq on then without STR eq on there is a very noticeable damage difference.

Dark Elf Starting Stats:
STR:13
AGI:23
STA:15
INT:26
WIS:23

Fighter Type gains bonus as follows:
STR: +5
AGI: +2
STA: +3

Warrior Type gains bonus as follows:
STR: +5
AGI: +3
STA: +2

Guardian Type gains bonus as follows:
STR: +5
AGI: +2
STA: +3

The example I pointed to, armor includes:
1. Spellbound Black Iron Chain Helm - Int: +7, Wis: +4
2. Frozen Enchanted Breastplate - Agi: +8, Str: +4
3. Rubicite Vanguard Spaulders - Sta: +8, Wis: +8
4. Rubicite Vanguard Gussets - Int: +7, Str: +9
5. Ebon Vanguard Gauntlets - Agi: +8, Wis: +8
6. Grass Lined Greaves - Int: +6, Str: +10
7. Legendary Journeyman's Boots - Agi: +5, Str: +4, Sta: +4
8. Amulet of the Far-Runner - Int: +2, Agi: +6, Str: +2, Sta: +6, Wis: +2
9. Gathered Orb of Abjuration - Int: +5, Sta: +5, Wis: +3
10. Ruby Ring - Agi: +3, Sta: +3, Wis: +4
11. Anvient Slayers Ring of Stamina - Agi: +5, Sta: +9
12. Bracelet of Glowing Shards - Agi: +6, Str: +4, Sta: +8
13. Alluring Bracelet - Agi: +3, Str: +7, Sta: +5
14. Flowing Black Silk Sash - Agi: +8, Str: +8, Wis: +6
15. Cedarwood Long Bow - Int: +5, Agi: +6, Str: +7, Wis: +6
16. Magma Forged Cutlas - Int: +2, Agi: +3, Str: +6, Wis: +6
17. Ebon Tower Shield - Int: +8, Wis: +8


That is his list of equipment.

Now, let's do some of this math you were talking about...


STR: 4 + 9 + 10 + 4 + 2 + 4 + 7 + 8 + 7 + 6 = 61
AGI: 8 + 8 + 5 + 6 + 3 + 5 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 6 + 3 = 61
STA: 8 + 4 + 6 + 5 + 3 + 9 + 8 + 5 = 48
INT: 7 + 7 + 6 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 2 + 8 = 42
WIS: 4 + 8 + 8 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 8 = 55

Add in the totals of class bonuses"

STR: 61 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 76
AGI: 61 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 68
STA: 48 + 3 + 2 + 3 = 56

Now take those number and add them to the base stats:

Dark Elf Starting Stats:
STR:13 + 76 = 89
AGI:23 + 68 = 91
STA:15 + 56 = 71
INT:26 + 42 = 68
WIS:23 + 55 = 78

Now, every so many levels you are given a choice to add stamina, strength, agility and so on, this character in question is 46, so he has been able to add several to each.

Check the numbers if you want, but I am right. I do not have a superiority complex.

Exactly what does that prove? You were originally trying to prove my math wrong, but instead you did your own calculations and did it incorrectly. Reread what I wrote. You are not using the numbers correctly.

The tune has 103 Sta, 56 of which comes from class bonuses and equipment (by your own calculation). That leaves 47 STA. Assuming he started off with a base of 47 STA only equals 3525 total base hitpoints through level 50, so where the hell did you get 7107???? And besides, he didn't get them all at level 1, he got them along the way, so it would be even less. And also, I said 1STA=1.5Hitpoints more, meaning in addition. Every archetype has its base hitpoints per level. For example lets just say a guardian gets 50 per level base. If he puts 5 into STA as a racial trait, the next time he levels he will get more. Not difficult to understand. And you forgot to add up the HP bonuses that the eq gives in order to see how much he had added that way. Geez.



Where did you get the 25*17=1775 anyway. I mean mathematically its right, but I have no idea where those numbers came from. And what you were saying there makes no sense either. I never said if you add 1STA at level 50 you multiply (1x1.5x50). That only works base. If you have 1 more BASE stamina at level 1 then someone else, at level 50 you will have (1sta x 1.5hp x 50levels) more hitpoints. Get it?

Glad to see you're not afraid of a little basic math GXM, but if you're going to do all that work, you should at least do it right.

Edited, Thu Feb 10 14:18:29 2005 by Heightserz

Edited, Thu Feb 10 14:22:00 2005 by Heightserz

Ok, let me see if I can walk you through what has happened up to this point so as to keep you from becoming lost again.

You said...


So by what you said, every level you are gaining HP based on Stamina. 22.5 hp x 50 levels = 1,125. Fine, we can go with this.

The Guardian I have put forth as the example subject has a STA of 103. This has been established yes? Ok.

1.5 x 103 = 154.5 Hit points per level right? -

Ok, now we multiply by your, in this case 46 levels -

154.5 * 46 = 7,107

When I brought up 25 * 17, I was using the assumption of each piece of armor he was wearing may or may not provide 20-30 or more extra raw hitpoints. So even excluding that we still have 7,107 hit points just from STA.

According to his stats page, he only has 4,715. There is a bit of a difference there.

Stamina does not go on a per level basis, stamina goes on a single multiplier added to the base HP of the current character. The base HP is dictated by level and class, that is it.

Once there is a base HP figure, then you add the extra HP from the stamina, and then the raw HP from the gear.

Anyway, back to the point of this thread. What I was originally saying, and what I then had to explain, was that no matter what race you play, there are ways to get your stats as good as or better than any other race.

Granted, they too can find good combinations of armor to really blow by you in one area, but be VERY lacking in other areas.

Just remember, a tank with low resists is just a piece of meat ready to get cooked. The opposite can be said of a tank with low AC/HP and high resists, some fights he will resist every single magic attack, but if melee is involved more heavily, there will be no contest.

Someone with high HP may or may not outlast someone with high AC.

Fast attacking mobs, regardless of AC, will land more often due to fast attacks. In this situation you will want high HP.

In situations where mobs have slow attacks but heavier hits when they do hit, you may want more AC. The fewer times that nasty melee attack actually connects the better off you are.

Ideally you want high ac and high hp without sactificing either.

Ultimately you want high AC, high HP, AND high resists.

High level eq usually has both, so that doesn't apply too much at higher levels.

You keep using future tense and saying things like If you haven't tried it yourself how the hell would you know? I have already experimented with all of this and know what I'm talking about. And I can explain it in less that 3 full pages every post. You're the one who can seem to stop arguing long enough to tuck your tail between you legs and try it. I've done all that I can do to try to convince you. If you want to be an ignorant bass-**** your whole life, thats your business. But stop giving others wrong info.

you've provided wrong number after wrong number.

you've explained nothing, made the simple confusing, and generally proven you ignorance of this subject.