OK, I admit I'm ignorant about Apprentice levels! If these answers already exist please just point me to the right site. I am a 21 Guardian that keeps up with his Apprentice thru Adept skills wherever possible, but I'm still ignorant. Why am I spending good money to raise these skills? What do they benefit me? Intuatively I know they do. But how much?
Does anyone know the advantage of raising from Apprentice I to II to III to IV? When I examine Apprentice I and IV side-by-side they are both orange to me (meaning I'm just beginning to learn this skill), they have the same base skill requirement and the same max skill level. The only difference is Apprentice I requires 22 power and Apprentice IV requires 20 power. Yes this is a 10% power savings but is it worth 1.5 gold if that's all it does?
I assume the Adept has an incremental advantage over Apprentice because I have a couple and they seem to do more damage, but I can't prove it.
I'd appreciate any form of table showing these Skill differences, even if they're your guess. I'm aware of where to get these Apprentice spells and also the crafting process creation.
My assumption is that I might as well grow into App IV instead of growing into App I. I'll get whatever benefits App IV has over App I.
So "What specifically are the benefits of upgrading?"
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What specifically are the benefits of upgrading skills?Follow
Your spells con color has nothing to do with it being Apprentice, Adept, or Master. That just shows its relation to your skill level.
Apprentice, Adept, and Master are the major divisions of power for your spells. I, II, III, IV are the minor divisions of power. Upgrading a spell increases its potential and decreases its power consumption. I forget where I saw it, but this is how it was explained to me.
Apprentice I of a spell has a modifier of "-5" or so. What I mean by that is that, it actually subtracts about 5 skill points off of your casting skill being used. Effectively, it is subtracting levels from your caster level. An Adept version of the spell adds a +1 level modifier, i.e. Adept I = +15, Adept II = +20, and so on.
To simplify what I am trying to say:
Apprentice I = -1 level(s)
Apprentice II = 0 level(s)
Apprentice III = +1 level(s)
Apprentice IV = +2 level(s)
Adept I = +3 level(s)
Adept II = +4 level(s)
Adept III = +5 level(s)
Adept IV = +6 level(s)
Master I = +7 level(s)
Master II = +8 level(s)
Master III = +9 level(s)
Master IV = +10 level(s)
Ideally, Master IV is where you want your spells to be, mostly something to work on once you hit 50 and you want to be the best.
Edited, Mon Jan 31 13:44:58 2005 by gxm
Apprentice, Adept, and Master are the major divisions of power for your spells. I, II, III, IV are the minor divisions of power. Upgrading a spell increases its potential and decreases its power consumption. I forget where I saw it, but this is how it was explained to me.
Apprentice I of a spell has a modifier of "-5" or so. What I mean by that is that, it actually subtracts about 5 skill points off of your casting skill being used. Effectively, it is subtracting levels from your caster level. An Adept version of the spell adds a +1 level modifier, i.e. Adept I = +15, Adept II = +20, and so on.
To simplify what I am trying to say:
Apprentice I = -1 level(s)
Apprentice II = 0 level(s)
Apprentice III = +1 level(s)
Apprentice IV = +2 level(s)
Adept I = +3 level(s)
Adept II = +4 level(s)
Adept III = +5 level(s)
Adept IV = +6 level(s)
Master I = +7 level(s)
Master II = +8 level(s)
Master III = +9 level(s)
Master IV = +10 level(s)
Ideally, Master IV is where you want your spells to be, mostly something to work on once you hit 50 and you want to be the best.
Edited, Mon Jan 31 13:44:58 2005 by gxm
[edit] grrr somebody posted at the same time as me, with a vastly better explanation. Darn you Gxm!!![end edit]
You've pretty much already figured it out. From what I've experienced, and read on various boards, there's 2 advantages to upgrading.
1. The power cost usually is lower, sometimes a decent amount, sometimes a fairly insignificant amount.
2. The ability improves. Heals heal for more, etc.
Try it next time you get the chance to upgrade. First use the current version, and keep track of what its doing (how much you hit for with it etc. Heals are just the easiest to see it with).
Then try it with the new spell.
For example, I read one post that said that the person's minor healing went up about 20 or 30 hps, from app 3 to app 4. Is that significant? Well, if you get, say, 20 hps per app, then going from app 1 to adept 1 would give you about 100 additional hp heal.
I have not found a site that lists all the different app levels and what each one does unfortunately, I will take another look around and see what I find.
Edited, Mon Jan 31 13:47:23 2005 by gossamer
You've pretty much already figured it out. From what I've experienced, and read on various boards, there's 2 advantages to upgrading.
1. The power cost usually is lower, sometimes a decent amount, sometimes a fairly insignificant amount.
2. The ability improves. Heals heal for more, etc.
Try it next time you get the chance to upgrade. First use the current version, and keep track of what its doing (how much you hit for with it etc. Heals are just the easiest to see it with).
Then try it with the new spell.
For example, I read one post that said that the person's minor healing went up about 20 or 30 hps, from app 3 to app 4. Is that significant? Well, if you get, say, 20 hps per app, then going from app 1 to adept 1 would give you about 100 additional hp heal.
I have not found a site that lists all the different app levels and what each one does unfortunately, I will take another look around and see what I find.
Edited, Mon Jan 31 13:47:23 2005 by gossamer
Thanks Guys! This is most helpful. Hits are hard to measure because they're so inconsistant, but heals would be more easily measured. Unfortuneately, I'm a tank. Further, a tank unwilling to parse out many encounters. I'll take Gossamer's advice and test pre and post upgrades on some poor unsuspecting group of Plains Beetles!
Are we pretty sure that a level equals 5 skill points? Are these consistant between classes?
Hopefully, I'll be able to add some data to this after some testing.
Are we pretty sure that a level equals 5 skill points? Are these consistant between classes?
Hopefully, I'll be able to add some data to this after some testing.
Parsing damage, effects against a mob can be tricky sometimes. The biggest problem is level range and resists. You can see what their level is, but it's difficult to judge their resists.
Since upgrading spells allows you to cast at a higher level, you should be able to at least beat the level boundry on mobs.
For example, if you were using an Apprentice I spell that is white to you, disregarding resists of a mob, should hit each time and do full damage if the mob is lower level then you.
If the mob is your level, you may get resists just from the level check. If you upgraded to Apprentice II, you should be able to hit consistantly from then on.
When a spell is cast, it goes through a number of checks. I don't know the exact order or if they are factored together for one check, but from what I have seen it goes off of level difference first, then it does a resistance check, possibly factoring level into it again.
Since upgrading spells allows you to cast at a higher level, you should be able to at least beat the level boundry on mobs.
For example, if you were using an Apprentice I spell that is white to you, disregarding resists of a mob, should hit each time and do full damage if the mob is lower level then you.
If the mob is your level, you may get resists just from the level check. If you upgraded to Apprentice II, you should be able to hit consistantly from then on.
When a spell is cast, it goes through a number of checks. I don't know the exact order or if they are factored together for one check, but from what I have seen it goes off of level difference first, then it does a resistance check, possibly factoring level into it again.
Would the following table be approximately correct? These numbers are relative numbers not absolute.
Apprentice II Red unusable.
Apprentice II Orange +1 to your base damage.
Apprentice II Yellow +2 to your base damage.
Apprentice II White +3 to your base damage.
Apprentice II Blue +4 to your base damage.
Apprentice II Green +5 to your base damage.
Apprentice II Gray +5 to your base damage - upgrade necessary.
Apprentice III has a new base (presumably 5 points higher than Apprentice II.
Obviously a matrix of "aptitude level" (color) cross referenced with Apprentice Level becomes a complex chart, further complicated by the fact that combat skills are started at different base damage levels. I got wild swing at level 1 but didn't get my concussion until the mid teens.
Apprentice II Red unusable.
Apprentice II Orange +1 to your base damage.
Apprentice II Yellow +2 to your base damage.
Apprentice II White +3 to your base damage.
Apprentice II Blue +4 to your base damage.
Apprentice II Green +5 to your base damage.
Apprentice II Gray +5 to your base damage - upgrade necessary.
Apprentice III has a new base (presumably 5 points higher than Apprentice II.
Obviously a matrix of "aptitude level" (color) cross referenced with Apprentice Level becomes a complex chart, further complicated by the fact that combat skills are started at different base damage levels. I got wild swing at level 1 but didn't get my concussion until the mid teens.
The con color corrosponds directly to the skill that the ability/spell uses.
I don't remember if it is a skill in EQ2, but for instance, you have an Evocation skill of 150, and you just got a spell this level, so it is Orange. Nex level you have 155 skill points in Evocation, and now the con color of the ability is yellow.
At the previous level, using App II, you would be casting with a skill of 150. If you had upgraded to App III, you would be casting at a skill of 155, even though you are not 1 level higher.
As far as how much damage is actually added, I'm not sure how that is determined. It may be different for each spell. Casting a level higher for one spell may add a percentage of damage, while a different spell may add a flat number.
I don't remember if it is a skill in EQ2, but for instance, you have an Evocation skill of 150, and you just got a spell this level, so it is Orange. Nex level you have 155 skill points in Evocation, and now the con color of the ability is yellow.
At the previous level, using App II, you would be casting with a skill of 150. If you had upgraded to App III, you would be casting at a skill of 155, even though you are not 1 level higher.
As far as how much damage is actually added, I'm not sure how that is determined. It may be different for each spell. Casting a level higher for one spell may add a percentage of damage, while a different spell may add a flat number.
Thanks again GXM (Deykann Scalerot). This dialog has been most helpful. I look forward to future posts from you and others.
While the above is all good info the short reply is
My app1 nuke did 150-200 on average
My adept1 version of same nuke does 275-325 on average
My DoT App1 did 20ish/tick
My DoT Adept1 does 45ish/tick
My app1 buff +INT
following the above samples I feel safe assuming that adept1 will be ++INT and that is good enough for me.
DONT FORGET! You do NOT have to step up form app1 --> app2 --> app3 --> app4. You an freely buy adept 1 before you even get the skill then scribe it 1 sec after you ding and go straight to adept1 level.
Edited, Mon Jan 31 16:53:53 2005 by sbs
My app1 nuke did 150-200 on average
My adept1 version of same nuke does 275-325 on average
My DoT App1 did 20ish/tick
My DoT Adept1 does 45ish/tick
My app1 buff +INT
following the above samples I feel safe assuming that adept1 will be ++INT and that is good enough for me.
DONT FORGET! You do NOT have to step up form app1 --> app2 --> app3 --> app4. You an freely buy adept 1 before you even get the skill then scribe it 1 sec after you ding and go straight to adept1 level.
Edited, Mon Jan 31 16:53:53 2005 by sbs
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