found this interesting so im posting for others
Quote:
Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Dual wield is approached entirely differently in our game as compared to EverQuest. There is no separate offhand delay; you swing equally with both hands. Nor is there a minimum damage number attached to certain weapons and not others; the basic idea is that dual-wielded and two-handed weapons of the same level and tier (quality) will have the same DPS over time. The advantage to using two weapons is that you get twice the opportunity to hit, and you may get higher stat bonuses by virtue of having two slots filled instead of one. But the days of dual wielding being vastly superior to using a two-hander are over.
There is also another type of one-handed weapon that allows the use of a shield. These weapons cannot be dual-wielded, but they do only somewhat less damage than a two-hander of the same level and tier. The advantages to using a shield are the additional stats and chance to block an attack. Not all melee classes will be able to use all types of weapons; these will vary by class and subclass.
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Quote:
There is no separate offhand delay; you swing equally with both hands
Interesting. Which hand determines the delay then? If I have a 1.2 and a 1.4 do both go at 1.2 or at 1.4?
Can you throw the link to that quote as I'm sure these issues would have been brought up in it.
Wherever I go - there I am.
The way it was stated is kinda confusing. In EQ1, offhand weapons, regardless of its speed had a different attack speed than the primary. Meaning that if you had identical weapons in each hand, your primary would still swing more than your off hand.
I think he means that in EQ2, when equipping identical weapons you will swing equal number of times. I don't have a link to the article, but I will see if I can dig it up on the soe forums.
I think he means that in EQ2, when equipping identical weapons you will swing equal number of times. I don't have a link to the article, but I will see if I can dig it up on the soe forums.
It was my understanding that the weapons operated independantly. If you had a 1.2 second delay weapon in the right hand and a 1.4 second delay weapon in the left hand, both delays would be taken into account. The right hand would hit every 1.2 seconds while the left would hit every 1.4 seconds. There are no other factors in gauging weapon delay or effectiveness with Duel Wielding. I believe that's why each DW weapon hits for less than a comparative 1h weapon and the fact you need 2 DW specific weapons.
I'm still searching for the thread I was reading about DW and since I'm at work, I can't verify my belief with my character, so take what I say with a grain of salt. :)
*added*
Here you go...
Interview with Moorgard
Thread about Duel Wield
I stand corrected about the one Duel Wield damage being half of a comparable 1h weapon. It would be half of a 2h weapon. Like what has been said above, as I just re-read the post. haha... ahem. It's still a bit unclear about the delays. When Moorgard says "There is no off-hand delay; dual-wield weapons swing based on the delay of the weapon itself", I'm lead to believe that the weapons act independantly. However, right after, he says "Neither hand is more likely to hit than the other, nor is there a main-hand bonus." I'm thinking he means "to hit" not "how often". But I could be wrong.
The thread starter of the second link believes that the slower delay weapon only strikes when the faster delay weapon is ready, regardless if the slower weapon is ready to strike or not.
*added*
And another one for your reading pleasure! More people say they're independant.
Edited, Thu Jan 27 19:14:12 2005 by ArcosKojin
Edited, Thu Jan 27 19:23:15 2005 by ArcosKojin
I'm still searching for the thread I was reading about DW and since I'm at work, I can't verify my belief with my character, so take what I say with a grain of salt. :)
*added*
Here you go...
Interview with Moorgard
Thread about Duel Wield
I stand corrected about the one Duel Wield damage being half of a comparable 1h weapon. It would be half of a 2h weapon. Like what has been said above, as I just re-read the post. haha... ahem. It's still a bit unclear about the delays. When Moorgard says "There is no off-hand delay; dual-wield weapons swing based on the delay of the weapon itself", I'm lead to believe that the weapons act independantly. However, right after, he says "Neither hand is more likely to hit than the other, nor is there a main-hand bonus." I'm thinking he means "to hit" not "how often". But I could be wrong.
The thread starter of the second link believes that the slower delay weapon only strikes when the faster delay weapon is ready, regardless if the slower weapon is ready to strike or not.
*added*
And another one for your reading pleasure! More people say they're independant.
Edited, Thu Jan 27 19:14:12 2005 by ArcosKojin
Edited, Thu Jan 27 19:23:15 2005 by ArcosKojin
Quote:
In EQ1, offhand weapons, regardless of its speed had a different attack speed than the primary. Meaning that if you had identical weapons in each hand, your primary would still swing more than your off hand.
That wasn't attack speed it was the dual wield check. The offhand weapon could swing at it's stated delay but every time it had the chance to it had to pass a test based on your dual wield skill. With skill maxed at high level it was virtually certain to swing and so would swing on it's delay every time. But for a lot of the game the main hand would swing more than the offhand.
Having read his interview it is clear what he is saying (at least to me [:smile;])
"There is no separate offhand delay" means over and above the inherent weapon delay. So the weapons are independent and swing in their own time. And the other bit is about the "damage bonus" that you used to get in EQ on the main hand weapon which is not in EQ2.
Wherever I go - there I am.
Quote:
That wasn't attack speed it was the dual wield check. The offhand weapon could swing at it's stated delay but every time it had the chance to it had to pass a test based on your dual wield skill. With skill maxed at high level it was virtually certain to swing and so would swing on it's delay every time. But for a lot of the game the main hand would swing more than the offhand.
Having read his interview it is clear what he is saying (at least to me [:smile;])
"There is no separate offhand delay" means over and above the inherent weapon delay. So the weapons are independent and swing in their own time. And the other bit is about the "damage bonus" that you used to get in EQ on the main hand weapon which is not in EQ2.
Having read his interview it is clear what he is saying (at least to me [:smile;])
"There is no separate offhand delay" means over and above the inherent weapon delay. So the weapons are independent and swing in their own time. And the other bit is about the "damage bonus" that you used to get in EQ on the main hand weapon which is not in EQ2.
That's basically what I was saying. There is nothing stopping the off hand from making its full attacks on its own independant weapon dictated delay.
I am just thinking about this now, and I still have to read the Linked post.
But from the start of the thread, It sounded like if I was using DW weapons, and one was 1.2 and 1.4 the average 1.3 delay would be taken. (Yes, I am in my own world sometimes).
Example of something that I am thinking about.
Weapons:
DW delay 1.2 dam 7 to 15 (2) (2.4 delay 14 to 30 for each)
2h delay 2.7 dam 14 to 38
Just looking at the weapon stat's. Just one of my DW weapons is going to be doing about the same damage as the 2h weapon over the same time. But, I add the second DW and I just doubled the Damage output.
But of course you have more chances of missing with 2 weapons. *shrug*
This is just my 2 cents.
*get the voices out of my head)
But from the start of the thread, It sounded like if I was using DW weapons, and one was 1.2 and 1.4 the average 1.3 delay would be taken. (Yes, I am in my own world sometimes).
Example of something that I am thinking about.
Weapons:
DW delay 1.2 dam 7 to 15 (2) (2.4 delay 14 to 30 for each)
2h delay 2.7 dam 14 to 38
Just looking at the weapon stat's. Just one of my DW weapons is going to be doing about the same damage as the 2h weapon over the same time. But, I add the second DW and I just doubled the Damage output.
But of course you have more chances of missing with 2 weapons. *shrug*
This is just my 2 cents.
*get the voices out of my head)
Quote:
But of course you have more chances of missing with 2 weapons. *shrug*
In fact less chance. A slow weapon either hits or it doesn't and you lose all damage until the next potential hit comes around. With faster DW weapons you may miss but the next hit is coming very soon.
I used a Big slow 2-hander in EQ and when you missed it was really noticeable how the damage fell away. When it hit it was great and looked good but dual wield keeps pecking away.
If there is any aggro management in this game it might also make a difference to that. ie if you are hitting the mob twice every 1.2 seconds then it will have difficulty forgetting you. If you only hit once every 2.4 and then miss one it may have wandered off and dismembered a rogue or two before it remembers you upset it.
Wherever I go - there I am.
Opps, thanks for the correction there Cobra...
As a SK in EQ1, 2h slash was the only weapon to use post 30 and up into 60's. Once you got into 60s you could change up your weapons here and there, but primarily you are still 2hs.
Using a log parser - using either a Black Bastardsword, or Sword of the Crypt Creeper (both 2hs) I could keep up in damage output of almost all dual wielding warriors.
In EQ2, so far I have seen no reason to not use shield and 1h(s/b) as a knight. The only time I would consider it, would be if I were not MT, which despite my wishes to just be DPS, I usually get tossed in as MT for most XP/Quest groups. I have even been thinking of just leaving my 2hs at home or selling it. ^_^
Using a log parser - using either a Black Bastardsword, or Sword of the Crypt Creeper (both 2hs) I could keep up in damage output of almost all dual wielding warriors.
In EQ2, so far I have seen no reason to not use shield and 1h(s/b) as a knight. The only time I would consider it, would be if I were not MT, which despite my wishes to just be DPS, I usually get tossed in as MT for most XP/Quest groups. I have even been thinking of just leaving my 2hs at home or selling it. ^_^
So does the Shield and Board really make much of a difference in tanking? I want to become a Warrior but I want to use a 2h because they are aesthetically(sp?) pleasing to me.
gxm wrote:
In EQ2, so far I have seen no reason to not use shield and 1h(s/b) as a knight. The only time I would consider it, would be if I were not MT, which despite my wishes to just be DPS, I usually get tossed in as MT for most XP/Quest groups. I have even been thinking of just leaving my 2hs at home or selling it. ^_^
Hey gxm - what shield are you using ?
I have been trying to find a shield and a 1h something or other, but I haven't been able to find something that can replace the DW weapons that I am using.
It is either DPS is cut down, or I am losing alot of stat's.
Check my sig, "Deykann" is my SK, and it shows what I am currently using.
Cullom wrote:
So does the Shield and Board really make much of a difference in tanking? I want to become a Warrior but I want to use a 2h because they are aesthetically(sp?) pleasing to me.
Yes, shields make a lot of difference. Get yourself a sturdy Tower Shield and you'll be good to go.
As far as the 2h, I agree. I prefer my greatsword over the dinky longsword. :/ However, I solo much more often than group, so I can get away with using the 2h exclusively. If you join an XP party, know that you will have to use a sword (mace/axe/whatever) and board unless they don't mind you using a 2h. I usually joined quest parties and they didn't mind me using a 2h because it was never about the speed of killing, rather it was the adventure! :)
17 posts
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found this interesting so im posting for others
Quote:
Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Dual wield is approached entirely differently in our game as compared to EverQuest. There is no separate offhand delay; you swing equally with both hands.
================================================================
I have no idea where i found this or the site. I was working late at night and decided to check out some stats on weapons and ratios. I came across this on a new site created to EQ2 .
I recall he didnt go into depth about the subject. He just kinda left us hanging.
Fraegoni EQ1
Teje EQ2
found this interesting so im posting for others
Quote:
Steve "Moorgard" Danuser: Dual wield is approached entirely differently in our game as compared to EverQuest. There is no separate offhand delay; you swing equally with both hands.
================================================================
I have no idea where i found this or the site. I was working late at night and decided to check out some stats on weapons and ratios. I came across this on a new site created to EQ2 .
I recall he didnt go into depth about the subject. He just kinda left us hanging.
Fraegoni EQ1
Teje EQ2
16 posts
jan 1
working late again.. this is it
http://eq2.adeptshaven.com/forumnews-news_id6.html
EQ2 Vault posted edition #22 of Ask SOE today...
Edited, Wed Feb 2 02:32:26 2005 by Fraegoni
working late again.. this is it
http://eq2.adeptshaven.com/forumnews-news_id6.html
EQ2 Vault posted edition #22 of Ask SOE today...
Edited, Wed Feb 2 02:32:26 2005 by Fraegoni
4 posts
iv seen alot of math done on this subject to dual weild and i personally feel it doesnt add up in relaity eq2 example im a 25mnk i sue dual weild and i do 18 dmaage here 22 damage here etc only time i do damage equal to my attack is if i use a skill personally i think dual weild sucks and i might soon go back to 2 hand once i find a good enough weapon
but even better i think if i had a shotgun it would ebat dual weild and 2 hand big time but thats jsut me heh
but even better i think if i had a shotgun it would ebat dual weild and 2 hand big time but thats jsut me heh
17 posts
yeah duel isnt working for me either.. but im a guardian.
i need a shield on the Big boys. I still like the 2H over all helps with agro..when you get peeps doing goofy stuff
i need a shield on the Big boys. I still like the 2H over all helps with agro..when you get peeps doing goofy stuff
I don't know about the rest of you, I love using my DW Gaint Pick-Axe's. The stats are great on them, and from the way I am going I should be able to use them right into my late lvl 20's.
I have not seen a 2h weapon that gives me more DMG + stat's to make me change. And finding a Shield and 1h weapon to match is going to be hard to do as well.
Giant Pick-Axe - +2 agi +7 str +15 health +17 Power
DMG 8 - 15 at lvl 25
I have not seen a 2h weapon that gives me more DMG + stat's to make me change. And finding a Shield and 1h weapon to match is going to be hard to do as well.
Giant Pick-Axe - +2 agi +7 str +15 health +17 Power
DMG 8 - 15 at lvl 25
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