I don't post normally, just use the quest guides etc, but lurking around has made a few things increasingly obvious.
Why do some MMO whinge sooooo much.
I used to see it in SWG - people ******** about this and ******** about that, but still strangely playing the game and posting in the game forums.
I've noticed in various EQ2 boards (this one especially) that the same tendency is beginning to appear. People who critisice every aspect of the game, laughably thinking its some giant conspiracy to part them with the cash, going on about how many other games are better. Well thats your opinion, not everyones. Stop expressing things as fact.
In fact if the game is so pants IYO - then leave.
Stop playing the game, stop posting in the boards - and put your money where your mouth is - leave.
Right, glad thats off my chest.
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In fact if the game is so pants IYO - then leave.
Stop playing the game, stop posting in the boards - and put your money where your mouth is - leave.
Stop playing the game, stop posting in the boards - and put your money where your mouth is - leave.
And why didn't you answer your own question? Or take your own advice?
Why go through the process of creating an account simply to whine about the whining? Maybe you should have just stop reading the forums if you are so tired of reading the whines. If it affects you so much that you went out of your way to create an account and your first post was to complain, maybe you should just leave.
So what did you get out of whining to us that these people should just leave instead of posting?
Well I think it is part of our nature to whine, no matter where we are, what it is, or when it is. People just feel right when they are whining about something. No matter how good a game is there is always some people who don't like it and want to whine about it. I'm not saying EQ2 is a prefect game, far from it, but if you really wanna make SOE change the game, whining here is the least effective way of doing so.
I also don't understand why people would threaten to leave EQ2 for WoW. I mean, what is the point? If you really like WoW and dislike EQ2, just move. You don't need to say a word because if SOE keeps seeing their players leave one by one and WoW's player base keeps growing, they should have a clue what's going on. Or in the case you aren't really leaving to WoW, but you threaten SOE such that they know if they don't do something, you'll leave. IMO if you need to threaten someone to make him do something, it is already too late.
I'm in no way defending SOE but I just can't stand all those people bashing SOE for some stupid reasons. Yes, you can make suggestion and have the right to express your opinion, but you should also learn when to stop.
Edited, Thu Jan 20 13:49:04 2005 by kanonyuki
I also don't understand why people would threaten to leave EQ2 for WoW. I mean, what is the point? If you really like WoW and dislike EQ2, just move. You don't need to say a word because if SOE keeps seeing their players leave one by one and WoW's player base keeps growing, they should have a clue what's going on. Or in the case you aren't really leaving to WoW, but you threaten SOE such that they know if they don't do something, you'll leave. IMO if you need to threaten someone to make him do something, it is already too late.
I'm in no way defending SOE but I just can't stand all those people bashing SOE for some stupid reasons. Yes, you can make suggestion and have the right to express your opinion, but you should also learn when to stop.
Edited, Thu Jan 20 13:49:04 2005 by kanonyuki
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Why go through the process of creating an account simply to whine about the whining? Maybe you should have just stop reading the forums if you are so tired of reading the whines. If it affects you so much that you went out of your way to create an account and your first post was to complain, maybe you should just leave.
Because I have been visiting this site and forums for more than a year since I played FFXI. This forum or any other forum here is supposed to give useful information about the game, not for whiners to whine here. They can whine and complain, but that should be done in EQ2 official forum, not here. What is the logic behind you (or any whiner) that it is appropriate and useful to complain or whine here? Please enlighten me.
5 posts
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And why didn't you answer your own question? Or take your own advice?
What advice? I was just venting some steam about people who whinge about a game they supposedly hate and yet keep on talking about. Can't see anything about people whinging about people who whinge about a game they supposedly hate.
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Why go through the process of creating an account simply to whine about the whining?
I wish I had your clairvoyant powers to be able to tell when and why I created this account. I always thought that I created it to access the IRC channel - thank you for correcting reality for me.
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Maybe you should have just stop reading the forums if you are so tired of reading the whines.
Maybe you should read the bit of the message where I say that the habit is nearly endemic and not confined to this forum.
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If it affects you so much that you went out of your way to create an account and your first post was to complain, maybe you should just leave.
Why - there is a lot of interesting and helpful topics on here. Just because there are two of three whinges who feel compelled to **** on every upbeat mesaseg they spy doesn't mean I should stop reading. Neither will I leave because of rude people who are arrogant enough to think they know why I create web-site accounts and don't bother to read my posts.
I don't have much to complain about, I have fun. Sure there are a few bugs, a few things that should maybe be different, but whining doesn't do anything... at all.
Think about it this way. You worked hard making something, say a soapbox car, or a tree fort, or perhaps like me, you were to write a desktop application. Let's use the Tree Fort for an easy example, since other people may share it with you.
You have spent 2 months working on it, and finally finished it. So you invite your 2 best friends over to check it out. They get over and start messing around in there, friend #1 turns to you and says, "holy crap this is pretty cool, thanks for building this for us!" The other friend, friend #2, looks at you, sighs and complains, "What is this? There's no firepole!! How am I supposedto get down faster than friend #1, this isn't fair! I'm leaving unless you put in a firepole!!!"
I bet you would feel pretty ****** and not really care if he left at this point. Friend #1 pulls you to the side and quietly mentions, "hey, what if you put a slide there instead of a firepole, like a 2 person slide... I think that would rock!"
Friend #1 had constructive input, while friend #2 just whined, even though he suggested something, he did it in a way that noone will listen to.
Lesson: Don't whine, come up with something contructive to remedy the situation.
Think about it this way. You worked hard making something, say a soapbox car, or a tree fort, or perhaps like me, you were to write a desktop application. Let's use the Tree Fort for an easy example, since other people may share it with you.
You have spent 2 months working on it, and finally finished it. So you invite your 2 best friends over to check it out. They get over and start messing around in there, friend #1 turns to you and says, "holy crap this is pretty cool, thanks for building this for us!" The other friend, friend #2, looks at you, sighs and complains, "What is this? There's no firepole!! How am I supposedto get down faster than friend #1, this isn't fair! I'm leaving unless you put in a firepole!!!"
I bet you would feel pretty ****** and not really care if he left at this point. Friend #1 pulls you to the side and quietly mentions, "hey, what if you put a slide there instead of a firepole, like a 2 person slide... I think that would rock!"
Friend #1 had constructive input, while friend #2 just whined, even though he suggested something, he did it in a way that noone will listen to.
Lesson: Don't whine, come up with something contructive to remedy the situation.
I don't worry about the whinners, they will alsways be there in any game. They are the same ones who use cheats, look for bugs and use them to gain moneies or items in the game.
I put them in the same class as those that do auctions in /ooc in game instead of using /auction
They want everything that all the other class's get that there classs don't. And a bunch of whine about PvP. But anyhow its not just EQ its all games they play I am sure Hehehehehe. Just laugh at em and move on :)
I put them in the same class as those that do auctions in /ooc in game instead of using /auction
They want everything that all the other class's get that there classs don't. And a bunch of whine about PvP. But anyhow its not just EQ its all games they play I am sure Hehehehehe. Just laugh at em and move on :)
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I don't worry about the whinners, they will alsways be there in any game. They are the same ones who use cheats, look for bugs and use them to gain moneies or items in the game.
I put them in the same class as those that do auctions in /ooc in game instead of using /auction
They want everything that all the other class's get that there classs don't. And a bunch of whine about PvP. But anyhow its not just EQ its all games they play I am sure Hehehehehe. Just laugh at em and move on :)
I put them in the same class as those that do auctions in /ooc in game instead of using /auction
They want everything that all the other class's get that there classs don't. And a bunch of whine about PvP. But anyhow its not just EQ its all games they play I am sure Hehehehehe. Just laugh at em and move on :)
I wouldn't go quite so far as to say that. Whiners aren't necessarily cheaters. A good portion of the people that I see whining are usually the ones that either have little or no patience, or are close minded about things.
Not to start an argument about a different topic, but I hardly have any problem with someone auctioning in /ooc or /shout - yes, it's reccommended you use the appropriate channels, but it doesn't harm anyone.
because kanonyuki, people want to believe their opinion is right and true...
"gee I hate <x> thing..."
"how can these people like <x> thing..."
"well they're wrong and I'm going to tell them why they're wrong.."
and / or
"this isn't the best way to do it! this is crap!"
and once that mentality sets in it's all down hill, because just as people will defend an opinion as though it were etched in steel fact... others will defend something they enjoy like it's a religion.
the world would be much simpler if people were to just let crap go and move on and for the most part leave each other alone...
if you don't like EQ2.. ok, fine, that's why there's tons of MMO's now.. choices are out there, find one that fits.. no sense in berating those who enjoy the game repeatedly because they don't share in your opinion... as it was so nicely put:
plus putting suggestions here will do nothing.. I seriously doubt the SOE dev's read these forums. And as comforting as it is to say "if you don't like it you don't have to read it." I can pretty safetly say most people are not as dispassonate as I am.. so I can take an "i hate X" sounding topic with a grain of salt.. but I'm the exception not the rule... however ask yourself this.. what are you "REALLY" trying to gain through posting rant number 543? You're want to hurt the company that supposedly hurt you by converting the masses away from playing it.
if you want to make a difference, quit the game.. leave the community.. and stop shooting your credibility in the foot.. honestly there are several people on this forum who's post I won't bother reading 'cause I feel the probabability of it being yet another "I hate SOE" rant is too high to merit the 60 seconds of my life it would take to read it... they may actually have a legit question that I just might have the answer to or even a valuable credible opinion on good ideas for the future of the game.... but rant after rant has pigeon-holed them in my eyes.
as for those of us who enjoy EQ2.. simply need to learn to ignore the posters who insist on hammering the boards time and time again with the same old song of how SOE has done them wrong and let the post simply fade away to the back of the page archive, and don't pour oil on the flames they're trying to spread by just not responding to post specifically designed to get you upset.
sounds simple.. but as I said.. few people are as dispassonate as I am...
"gee I hate <x> thing..."
"how can these people like <x> thing..."
"well they're wrong and I'm going to tell them why they're wrong.."
and / or
"this isn't the best way to do it! this is crap!"
and once that mentality sets in it's all down hill, because just as people will defend an opinion as though it were etched in steel fact... others will defend something they enjoy like it's a religion.
the world would be much simpler if people were to just let crap go and move on and for the most part leave each other alone...
if you don't like EQ2.. ok, fine, that's why there's tons of MMO's now.. choices are out there, find one that fits.. no sense in berating those who enjoy the game repeatedly because they don't share in your opinion... as it was so nicely put:
Quote:
Yes, you can make suggestion and have the right to express your opinion, but you should also learn when to stop.
plus putting suggestions here will do nothing.. I seriously doubt the SOE dev's read these forums. And as comforting as it is to say "if you don't like it you don't have to read it." I can pretty safetly say most people are not as dispassonate as I am.. so I can take an "i hate X" sounding topic with a grain of salt.. but I'm the exception not the rule... however ask yourself this.. what are you "REALLY" trying to gain through posting rant number 543? You're want to hurt the company that supposedly hurt you by converting the masses away from playing it.
if you want to make a difference, quit the game.. leave the community.. and stop shooting your credibility in the foot.. honestly there are several people on this forum who's post I won't bother reading 'cause I feel the probabability of it being yet another "I hate SOE" rant is too high to merit the 60 seconds of my life it would take to read it... they may actually have a legit question that I just might have the answer to or even a valuable credible opinion on good ideas for the future of the game.... but rant after rant has pigeon-holed them in my eyes.
as for those of us who enjoy EQ2.. simply need to learn to ignore the posters who insist on hammering the boards time and time again with the same old song of how SOE has done them wrong and let the post simply fade away to the back of the page archive, and don't pour oil on the flames they're trying to spread by just not responding to post specifically designed to get you upset.
sounds simple.. but as I said.. few people are as dispassonate as I am...
I am not commenting about any of this, Just wanted to get Iaini's personnal veiw of Guild Wars..
Blueboyr@hotmail.com
Blueboyr@hotmail.com
<<hijack>>
Guildwars is an interesting little game... mind you these are just my opinions.
graphically it's quite well done, far better than I expected actually. The overall feel of the game to me was a lot like an advanced form of Dungeon Siege, 'cept you're in a group with real people.. (if you choose)
the quest and how they progress is very much like DS as well... where you have long areas to travel through with cities along the way to stop at and resupply or change spells, buy new spells, etc.. etc..
there's several good thoughts that were put into it such as being able to hire NPC's to round out your party if you cannot find someone seeking... or if you just want to go out into an area solo and horde the loot. I thought that was pretty cool, though the AI cannot replace a true person in all aspects, especially on the tougher missions.
another thing I like is the item drop system.. mobs drop items and the item has a name on it.. no one else can even pick it up.. the loot distribution through AI appears to be pretty even and once people get their items they can trade them to who ever might need them.. so the days of Ninja-looting are over in GW.
travel time in GW is almost nil. Once you've been to a city.. to go back to it, no matter how far away you are, simply bring up the map... and click the city you want to go to... load times the first time are about average.. after the game has built up a cache of information for an area though load times go by very quickly... so the only *real* travel time in GW is the first trip to location "X".
everything in GW is an instance... even cities.. to meet your friends you have to change "districts" if you're not in the same one. This is done through a simple drop-down menu list of all available districts.. so imagine if you were in Antonica 1, but had friends in Antonica 2.. to change, instead of zoning out and back in.. you had a dropdown box and just clicking Ant2 then ok. once you enter an "explorable area" there is NOONE there except you and your party.. everything, every drop, every named mob, is yours for the fighting and taking.. competition is zero.
as far as the classes go.. I've played Elementalist, Monk, and Mezmer.. between Ele and Mezmer there's really not all THAT much difference... both are damage dealing mages.. where one has out right nukes, the other does DOT. But DOT spells in guildwars act so quickly they may as well be out right nukes. Mez has a few buffs but on the whole buffs in GW are nothing spectacular and don't last long..
of course a LOT of people will take monk as a subclass to give themselves minor healing.. but I was feeling a bit quirky that weekend and gave Mezz / Necro a spin and it was pretty nifty. At first it seemed less than ideal... but the mezmer's HP drain spell coupled with necrotic drain once they get low on HP can end combat in two actions and allows one to heal themselves.
I haven't tried the PVP out nor have I tried any of the more melee oriented classes.. but honestly if you want a good feel for guild wars I think sitting down with Dungeon Siege for a few hours will give you a good idea.. then just imagine it online in a MUCH bigger world, much better graphics, with specialized classes (unlike DS where you can be a little of everything) and there you have it...
there's no real hate management in the game per say.. the AI is quite simple.. whoever has point gets initial aggro. after that it goes something like this:
Healer (monk class is the only "healer" in GW)
Mages
everybody else...
combat in GW is pretty much "beat it down now" though mages (particularly monk) have to be a bit more creative about spell selection before leaving a city and spell use..(you cannot change til you get to another "city-type" area) Combat as far as actions goes is pretty fast.. fighting mobs which can self heal (or worse area heal) can lead to some pretty drawn out battles though.
I wouldn't call GW as much an MMO as simply a multi-player action game.. It has no monthly fee so I'll be toying with it from time to time mainly in LAN parties with friends (it will make a VERY nice LAN party game) but in no way will it truly replace any of the more indepth MMO's.
Edited, Thu Jan 20 16:18:12 2005 by Iaini
Guildwars is an interesting little game... mind you these are just my opinions.
graphically it's quite well done, far better than I expected actually. The overall feel of the game to me was a lot like an advanced form of Dungeon Siege, 'cept you're in a group with real people.. (if you choose)
the quest and how they progress is very much like DS as well... where you have long areas to travel through with cities along the way to stop at and resupply or change spells, buy new spells, etc.. etc..
there's several good thoughts that were put into it such as being able to hire NPC's to round out your party if you cannot find someone seeking... or if you just want to go out into an area solo and horde the loot. I thought that was pretty cool, though the AI cannot replace a true person in all aspects, especially on the tougher missions.
another thing I like is the item drop system.. mobs drop items and the item has a name on it.. no one else can even pick it up.. the loot distribution through AI appears to be pretty even and once people get their items they can trade them to who ever might need them.. so the days of Ninja-looting are over in GW.
travel time in GW is almost nil. Once you've been to a city.. to go back to it, no matter how far away you are, simply bring up the map... and click the city you want to go to... load times the first time are about average.. after the game has built up a cache of information for an area though load times go by very quickly... so the only *real* travel time in GW is the first trip to location "X".
everything in GW is an instance... even cities.. to meet your friends you have to change "districts" if you're not in the same one. This is done through a simple drop-down menu list of all available districts.. so imagine if you were in Antonica 1, but had friends in Antonica 2.. to change, instead of zoning out and back in.. you had a dropdown box and just clicking Ant2 then ok. once you enter an "explorable area" there is NOONE there except you and your party.. everything, every drop, every named mob, is yours for the fighting and taking.. competition is zero.
as far as the classes go.. I've played Elementalist, Monk, and Mezmer.. between Ele and Mezmer there's really not all THAT much difference... both are damage dealing mages.. where one has out right nukes, the other does DOT. But DOT spells in guildwars act so quickly they may as well be out right nukes. Mez has a few buffs but on the whole buffs in GW are nothing spectacular and don't last long..
of course a LOT of people will take monk as a subclass to give themselves minor healing.. but I was feeling a bit quirky that weekend and gave Mezz / Necro a spin and it was pretty nifty. At first it seemed less than ideal... but the mezmer's HP drain spell coupled with necrotic drain once they get low on HP can end combat in two actions and allows one to heal themselves.
I haven't tried the PVP out nor have I tried any of the more melee oriented classes.. but honestly if you want a good feel for guild wars I think sitting down with Dungeon Siege for a few hours will give you a good idea.. then just imagine it online in a MUCH bigger world, much better graphics, with specialized classes (unlike DS where you can be a little of everything) and there you have it...
there's no real hate management in the game per say.. the AI is quite simple.. whoever has point gets initial aggro. after that it goes something like this:
Healer (monk class is the only "healer" in GW)
Mages
everybody else...
combat in GW is pretty much "beat it down now" though mages (particularly monk) have to be a bit more creative about spell selection before leaving a city and spell use..(you cannot change til you get to another "city-type" area) Combat as far as actions goes is pretty fast.. fighting mobs which can self heal (or worse area heal) can lead to some pretty drawn out battles though.
I wouldn't call GW as much an MMO as simply a multi-player action game.. It has no monthly fee so I'll be toying with it from time to time mainly in LAN parties with friends (it will make a VERY nice LAN party game) but in no way will it truly replace any of the more indepth MMO's.
Edited, Thu Jan 20 16:18:12 2005 by Iaini
My view is that people complain on boards do so because they have no one else to complain to... simple as that. I know from personal experience that if I feel the need to vent I have on occation sounded off on the forums. ..and it's not that I hate the game or anything.
What I find even more interesting is people, who complain about people who complain. Seems to me they are just as guilty as those they write about. We all know people like to go off things in games... but it far easier to skip those posts if they bother you that bad. Personally any thing that starts 'This game sucks' I don't even bother.
This post on the other hand is just too funny not to put my 2 cents in.
What I find even more interesting is people, who complain about people who complain. Seems to me they are just as guilty as those they write about. We all know people like to go off things in games... but it far easier to skip those posts if they bother you that bad. Personally any thing that starts 'This game sucks' I don't even bother.
This post on the other hand is just too funny not to put my 2 cents in.
I've got something to "whinge" about: it's whine. Not whinge, whinn, wine, or otherwise. If it's that hard to spell, use a synonym (gripe, complain, *****, bellyache, cry, etc.). I hate to be a spelling **** here, but you could at least take the time to spellcheck the key word in your argument.
As for something more constructive, I can tell you why people whine: to vent. It may not change anything other than to make them feel better. In the OP's own words:
Sometimes their beefs are justified; sometimes they're pointless babble. In any case, the only thing I can see you getting out of whining about them is a sense of self-gratification. You know people in MMORPGs always want a better game, and if you don't speak out, it won't ever improve. The whining isn't going to stop. Be happy that the game is good enough to garner enough attention from players wanting to make it just a little better. My advice, if the whining bothers you that much, is to find that perfect game that no one whines about. Oh, wait...then you wouldn't have anything to whinge about!
As for something more constructive, I can tell you why people whine: to vent. It may not change anything other than to make them feel better. In the OP's own words:
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Right, glad thats off my chest.
Sometimes their beefs are justified; sometimes they're pointless babble. In any case, the only thing I can see you getting out of whining about them is a sense of self-gratification. You know people in MMORPGs always want a better game, and if you don't speak out, it won't ever improve. The whining isn't going to stop. Be happy that the game is good enough to garner enough attention from players wanting to make it just a little better. My advice, if the whining bothers you that much, is to find that perfect game that no one whines about. Oh, wait...then you wouldn't have anything to whinge about!
Right on again, Sahmhane.
"My view is that people complain on boards do so because they have no one else to complain to... simple as that."
That's from bhobster... hm... good to know. Yeah that's the only reason I complain. In RL I live in a monastery, and we've all taken vows of silence - and well, I have to hide my PC in the cellar anyway - I mean I'm breaking like 34 monastery rules playin' mmo's and stuff....
I like whinging. I'm going to remember to whinge from now on. It sets my soul free.
In the meantime, let's all pay heed to those who say we shouldn't complain or whine. Let's all just
EQ2. Yeah that's productive and exciting... sure is firing me up, yep.
"My view is that people complain on boards do so because they have no one else to complain to... simple as that."
That's from bhobster... hm... good to know. Yeah that's the only reason I complain. In RL I live in a monastery, and we've all taken vows of silence - and well, I have to hide my PC in the cellar anyway - I mean I'm breaking like 34 monastery rules playin' mmo's and stuff....
I like whinging. I'm going to remember to whinge from now on. It sets my soul free.
In the meantime, let's all pay heed to those who say we shouldn't complain or whine. Let's all just
EQ2. Yeah that's productive and exciting... sure is firing me up, yep.Thanks Dutchess... I think you made me want to buy the game as soon as it hits the shelves :)
8 posts
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I've got something to "whinge" about: it's whine. Not whinge, whinn, wine, or otherwise. If it's that hard to spell, use a synonym (gripe, complain, *****, bellyache, cry, etc.). I hate to be a spelling **** here, but you could at least take the time to spellcheck the key word in your argument.
I hate to be a spelling **** here, but "whinge" is standard in the British Commonwealth. I don't even think it's a variant, as "whine" and "whinge" apparently come from different roots according to the reference I looked at.
If you look at some of the other words the OP used I'd say he's British or Australian.
I apologize for my previous post. I came out of the gate too harsh. I also assumed a lot and I put that into my post.
My question was, what are you getting out of posting about people whining? You say you have a reason. Why is your reason more valid than mine?
You come here to read the quest guides and other information and also lurk the boards. You have come to the conclusion that people whine about this game because they hate it. Why do they waste their time posting and not just quit the game?
Well, instead of going back to my original post and asking you, why did you feel the need to post and not just stop lurking? If it bothers you enough to start a thread about it, you must hate it. So why read the forums? Please do not reply to this. This is over and done with. Maybe I should just delete this line because its going to cause a ton of replies....
My answer is, I do not hate EQII. I actually enjoyed it for a while and it gave me many joyous moments. I truly liked this game and was very much enjoying every aspect of it. That is until I reached level 20 and the game was updated by SOE.
I still have fond memories of those 20 levels (well, maybe up to level 23-24) and want the game to continue like that. The game was changed and I feel I am no longer playing the same game. So I am upset that my free 30 days were nothing compared to the real game. I am more upset that I thoroughly enjoyed this game, for those free 30 days, and decided to get the 6 month subscription.
OK, you know the story. So... what can I do? SOE won't give me back my money and the game is not what I originally signed up for. I have e-mailed SOE and I have /bugged (they are probably ignoring my bugs since they are by design) things that have changed and, I feel, have changed the game for me. SOE does not reply. I, of course, am not surprised. Why would they? They have nothing positive to tell me since they are not going to roll back the patches or change the game for me.
So now I am upset and I feel slighted by SOE. I feel that they did a bait and switch with the game. Make the first 20 levels fun so we hook these people, then when they start paying, lock them into the usual grind.
What can I do? I come here and, just like you, get it off my chest. I want to receive input from others that SOE is denying me. I want answers to my questions that SOE will not even bother to answer. Yes, this is not SOE and you all will not have the correct answers, but at least I will find a place to vent my frustration at SOEs silence. Some of you have very good ideas as to why such and such thing are done the way they are. Others can relate to me and can either help me realize why I feel like I do or I can help them understand how they feel.
This is a community. People are here because they enjoy the same thing. That alone already gives us something to chat about. So let me chat about what I don't like about the game so maybe someone can help me understand why I don't. I have also posted positive things about it and why I enjoyed the Fury class so much.
Now, this is never a black/white or day/night thing when it comes to feelings. You don't simply like or dislike something. There are so many shades of gray and times of day in between those 2 options. And what about eclipses? ^_^ My like of EQII has now been overshadowed by my dislike. There are still things I like about this game but I cannot enjoy them because of the huge problems that I see. Things that prevent me from enjoying the rest of the game. Again, things that prevent ME from enjoying the rest of the game.
As a community I feel we should listen to all voices and hear everyone out. Everyone's post is as valid as yours. Well, lately I seem to be making these huge posts and most just skip them. So I'll shut up now.
My question was, what are you getting out of posting about people whining? You say you have a reason. Why is your reason more valid than mine?
You come here to read the quest guides and other information and also lurk the boards. You have come to the conclusion that people whine about this game because they hate it. Why do they waste their time posting and not just quit the game?
Well, instead of going back to my original post and asking you, why did you feel the need to post and not just stop lurking? If it bothers you enough to start a thread about it, you must hate it. So why read the forums? Please do not reply to this. This is over and done with. Maybe I should just delete this line because its going to cause a ton of replies....
My answer is, I do not hate EQII. I actually enjoyed it for a while and it gave me many joyous moments. I truly liked this game and was very much enjoying every aspect of it. That is until I reached level 20 and the game was updated by SOE.
I still have fond memories of those 20 levels (well, maybe up to level 23-24) and want the game to continue like that. The game was changed and I feel I am no longer playing the same game. So I am upset that my free 30 days were nothing compared to the real game. I am more upset that I thoroughly enjoyed this game, for those free 30 days, and decided to get the 6 month subscription.
OK, you know the story. So... what can I do? SOE won't give me back my money and the game is not what I originally signed up for. I have e-mailed SOE and I have /bugged (they are probably ignoring my bugs since they are by design) things that have changed and, I feel, have changed the game for me. SOE does not reply. I, of course, am not surprised. Why would they? They have nothing positive to tell me since they are not going to roll back the patches or change the game for me.
So now I am upset and I feel slighted by SOE. I feel that they did a bait and switch with the game. Make the first 20 levels fun so we hook these people, then when they start paying, lock them into the usual grind.
What can I do? I come here and, just like you, get it off my chest. I want to receive input from others that SOE is denying me. I want answers to my questions that SOE will not even bother to answer. Yes, this is not SOE and you all will not have the correct answers, but at least I will find a place to vent my frustration at SOEs silence. Some of you have very good ideas as to why such and such thing are done the way they are. Others can relate to me and can either help me realize why I feel like I do or I can help them understand how they feel.
This is a community. People are here because they enjoy the same thing. That alone already gives us something to chat about. So let me chat about what I don't like about the game so maybe someone can help me understand why I don't. I have also posted positive things about it and why I enjoyed the Fury class so much.
Now, this is never a black/white or day/night thing when it comes to feelings. You don't simply like or dislike something. There are so many shades of gray and times of day in between those 2 options. And what about eclipses? ^_^ My like of EQII has now been overshadowed by my dislike. There are still things I like about this game but I cannot enjoy them because of the huge problems that I see. Things that prevent me from enjoying the rest of the game. Again, things that prevent ME from enjoying the rest of the game.
As a community I feel we should listen to all voices and hear everyone out. Everyone's post is as valid as yours. Well, lately I seem to be making these huge posts and most just skip them. So I'll shut up now.
From Google - /define whinge:
"WHINGE - Definition
... Search Dictionary: Meaning of WHINGE. Pronunciation: winj. Webster's 1913 Dictionary.
Definition: \Whinge\, v. i. To whine. [Scot.] --Burns. Websites: ...
www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/whinge - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
Dictionary definition: whinge - Yahoo! Education
... whinge (hw nj, w nj) KEY intr.v. Chiefly British whinged , whing·ing , whing·es
To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner. ..."
I am a whinger and am darn proud of it. I complain and protest, yes; persistent, oh yes; annoying - to many, for sure. And yes, w/ a name of Aspic for the OP, GB would be a safe assumption for residency.
Well, as with the word whine I'm sure there is some sort of objectivity test implied. To those who feel the game needs to be critiqued, there is no whining or whinging happening here. But to those who love the game as it is, of course we're all the lowest sort of carpers imaginable.
Toco, I hate to do this - and I will search other posts - but could you please either post a link to the post that best somes up what the changes are you talk about ---- or restate them here? I remember reading them but want to have it clear in my head again precisely what your case is. Thx much!
"WHINGE - Definition
... Search Dictionary: Meaning of WHINGE. Pronunciation: winj. Webster's 1913 Dictionary.
Definition: \Whinge\, v. i. To whine. [Scot.] --Burns. Websites: ...
www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/whinge - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
Dictionary definition: whinge - Yahoo! Education
... whinge (hw nj, w nj) KEY intr.v. Chiefly British whinged , whing·ing , whing·es
To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner. ..."
I am a whinger and am darn proud of it. I complain and protest, yes; persistent, oh yes; annoying - to many, for sure. And yes, w/ a name of Aspic for the OP, GB would be a safe assumption for residency.
Well, as with the word whine I'm sure there is some sort of objectivity test implied. To those who feel the game needs to be critiqued, there is no whining or whinging happening here. But to those who love the game as it is, of course we're all the lowest sort of carpers imaginable.
Toco, I hate to do this - and I will search other posts - but could you please either post a link to the post that best somes up what the changes are you talk about ---- or restate them here? I remember reading them but want to have it clear in my head again precisely what your case is. Thx much!
I have no problems with people complaining about the game, so long as it is contructive complaints like Evilgnome does.
I may not always agree but i respect the points he makes an i hope it comes across like that
What does **** me of it all the WoW fanboi's comeing across telling us how much better thier game is, i couldn't give a F*ck about WoW and i just wish the would f*Ck off back to thier own forums and leave us alone
Sotonin i am speaking to you spacificly, since you have come here you have not said a single positive thing about this site or EQ2 s why the hell are you here?
I see you as nothing more than a bitter troll with nothing better to do than post utter sh*t about a game you have no interest in playing.
Why don't you make like a tree and leave.
I may not always agree but i respect the points he makes an i hope it comes across like that
What does **** me of it all the WoW fanboi's comeing across telling us how much better thier game is, i couldn't give a F*ck about WoW and i just wish the would f*Ck off back to thier own forums and leave us alone
Sotonin i am speaking to you spacificly, since you have come here you have not said a single positive thing about this site or EQ2 s why the hell are you here?
I see you as nothing more than a bitter troll with nothing better to do than post utter sh*t about a game you have no interest in playing.
Why don't you make like a tree and leave.
5 posts
Quote:
I apologize for my previous post. I came out of the gate too harsh. I also assumed a lot and I put that into my post. <snip>
NP. I apologise as well about my rather rude reply. It wasn't really necessary.
I suppose I decide to post because in this and all the forums there are several posters who just post bad news all the time, point out the ills in the game etc. Of course the odd, or even frequent, post about the limitations in the game is reasonable, its just there are a few posters who seem to post nothing but bad news or dislike about the game, and fawn love on e.g. WOW. (however constructive their posts may be). I just think its quite depressing to read an interesting post when consistently 1 or 2 posters keep bascially hijacking the thread going on about how disappointed they are in the game, how they prefer WOW (even though they've never played it) etc etc.
Again - I have no problem with these sorts of posts, its just that I do wish they would lighten up a bit.
Aspic wrote:
sdnah ruoy no emit hcum oot evah uoy neht sdrawkcab siht nac uoy fI
You seem to have forgotten the word "daer" :P
EvilGnomes,
I do not know how to post a link to a specific post so I won't. My Pro/Con post is towards the middle of page 3 on the "EQ2 or WoW>> Which is better??" thread. I guess I can put the link to the thread here but I already wrote all that so, oh well.
I do not know how to post a link to a specific post so I won't. My Pro/Con post is towards the middle of page 3 on the "EQ2 or WoW>> Which is better??" thread. I guess I can put the link to the thread here but I already wrote all that so, oh well.
Toco you made some very good points and I do read the whole post ;). I'm not against you or EvilGnomes personally. My replies are targeted to those who just oame in and say "this sux, that sux, SOE sux. And unless SOE gives me what I want or else I quit and buy WoW." those are the people I think should leave the forum. And I'm also against those who just complain but don't give any positive input. For example if someone says "this sux and that sux but if you do such and such you can avoid it." THAT is what I call positive input.
Thanks all,
and I know I drag people down in here some. Sorry. There is plenty I like - I just ... I can't describe what a total bummer it was to first get into the game - after months of hype - and to find *it wasn't made for me*. And that the promised ultra-cool, envelope-pushing content wasn't there. Gawd that hurt.
At first I tried to roll w/ it... and then I got angry at SoE. These are judgment calls they made, and in many cases it seems arbitrarily so. The other thing that worries me, and I'm not taking a cheap shot here - I really think this could be an actual phenom. - is - well, for lack of better words, "video killed the radio star."
It's not just video - but the theory is that two things killed rock and pop music, oh, starting maybe in the late 70s - the new super recording abilities (the technology) and also video (hello, would Janice Joplin have gotten a contract if she'd been born fifteen to twenty years later?). Now this is just a theory. It may not be all right or any right. But the theory is that w/ the heavy emphasis on technology "the recording engineers took over music", and content suffered. It sounded great but was "empty" - lyrics suffered - songs stunk.
Video added to the problem in that the "look" of performers began to matter more than their songwriting talent (the birth and skyrocketing takeoff of MTV). So you had stuff that sounded great but had no soul or inspiration.
"Freedom's just another world for nothing left to lose" versus "Dancing with myself, oh oh!" - "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" versus "M-m-m-my sherona!" - "And He who made kittens put snakes in the grass" versus "I ran, I ran so far away - I just ran, I couldn't get away."
By focusing on tech and look, the argument says that music began to lose it's "soul" in the 1980s and has essentially been on a big decline since - with many exceptions. But the overall trend line is towards crapola. What this argument doesn't take into effect is another possible culprit: the "corporatization" of creativity - creative decisions not made w/ conviction by inspired and truly visionary geniuses - but rather by upper level management geeks who study surveys and not sunrises - who have faith in polls and not ideas - who value bottom lines and not beautiful concepts.
Part of what I'm trying to do in this forum - besides figuring out what I really believe myself - your words do influence me and make me think and rethink things ---- is to awaken everyone to the possibility that MMOs are going to enter a decline driven by the three forces outlined above - that over-reliance on technology (programming) and look (graphics) and business models (management geeks interfering w/ creative visions) could destroy MMOs. Of course "destroy" is relative, but so be it.
Yeah, I'm going way, way out on a limb here. But please think about it before you comment. The music argument may be wrong - hey, old music may bore you to screaming tears - and maybe you love rap and Madonna (what a wonderful example of the crapola I'm talking about - she started in the MTV era and is still polluting the air waves). That's okay. But the argument, which hinges on subjective and not objective criteria, may nevertheless still hold water.
Listen, the more I think about it, the more I really, really liked old EQ was that it was a bold, visionary new game made with few pre-conceived notions as to what the player should be doing. Heck, if at level one you could get to West Karana and find a hay bale w/out getting killed, and if you could get to a certain non-hostile liazardman in the Feerot, you could do the Shakey-needs-new-stuffing quest and get a rippin Belt of the River or a Wee Harvester (and look really bad runnin around whappin stuff w/ a big shovel!). I did that quest at a really low level (people told me I was crazy to try it - I literally got /tells "whoah, what are you doing here??" - cuz I was a total naked noob in a very dangerous zone) --- yet I finished the quest - and it was FUN. Yeah it was clunky and dumpy looking w/ low poly-count and etc. - but it was FUN.
That whole aspect is missing for me now. This new game is heavily "topped down" rather than "bottomed up", like the original - and conceptually this is huge - it means we are often following preordained paths - and we have very little choice.
The new game is very, very well programmed (sound engineers). The graphics are cool and spiffy ("look" over content - MTV). And it seems a lot of big creative and content and feature calls were made by consulting polls or trying to predict profitability - rather than from bold creative visionaries. That's my take, anyway. It curdles my blood to think this might be happening. I hope I'm wrong. But the signs are there.
Edited, Fri Jan 21 22:08:57 2005 by EvilGnomes
Edited, Fri Jan 21 22:18:29 2005 by EvilGnomes
and I know I drag people down in here some. Sorry. There is plenty I like - I just ... I can't describe what a total bummer it was to first get into the game - after months of hype - and to find *it wasn't made for me*. And that the promised ultra-cool, envelope-pushing content wasn't there. Gawd that hurt.
At first I tried to roll w/ it... and then I got angry at SoE. These are judgment calls they made, and in many cases it seems arbitrarily so. The other thing that worries me, and I'm not taking a cheap shot here - I really think this could be an actual phenom. - is - well, for lack of better words, "video killed the radio star."
It's not just video - but the theory is that two things killed rock and pop music, oh, starting maybe in the late 70s - the new super recording abilities (the technology) and also video (hello, would Janice Joplin have gotten a contract if she'd been born fifteen to twenty years later?). Now this is just a theory. It may not be all right or any right. But the theory is that w/ the heavy emphasis on technology "the recording engineers took over music", and content suffered. It sounded great but was "empty" - lyrics suffered - songs stunk.
Video added to the problem in that the "look" of performers began to matter more than their songwriting talent (the birth and skyrocketing takeoff of MTV). So you had stuff that sounded great but had no soul or inspiration.
"Freedom's just another world for nothing left to lose" versus "Dancing with myself, oh oh!" - "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" versus "M-m-m-my sherona!" - "And He who made kittens put snakes in the grass" versus "I ran, I ran so far away - I just ran, I couldn't get away."
By focusing on tech and look, the argument says that music began to lose it's "soul" in the 1980s and has essentially been on a big decline since - with many exceptions. But the overall trend line is towards crapola. What this argument doesn't take into effect is another possible culprit: the "corporatization" of creativity - creative decisions not made w/ conviction by inspired and truly visionary geniuses - but rather by upper level management geeks who study surveys and not sunrises - who have faith in polls and not ideas - who value bottom lines and not beautiful concepts.
Part of what I'm trying to do in this forum - besides figuring out what I really believe myself - your words do influence me and make me think and rethink things ---- is to awaken everyone to the possibility that MMOs are going to enter a decline driven by the three forces outlined above - that over-reliance on technology (programming) and look (graphics) and business models (management geeks interfering w/ creative visions) could destroy MMOs. Of course "destroy" is relative, but so be it.
Yeah, I'm going way, way out on a limb here. But please think about it before you comment. The music argument may be wrong - hey, old music may bore you to screaming tears - and maybe you love rap and Madonna (what a wonderful example of the crapola I'm talking about - she started in the MTV era and is still polluting the air waves). That's okay. But the argument, which hinges on subjective and not objective criteria, may nevertheless still hold water.
Listen, the more I think about it, the more I really, really liked old EQ was that it was a bold, visionary new game made with few pre-conceived notions as to what the player should be doing. Heck, if at level one you could get to West Karana and find a hay bale w/out getting killed, and if you could get to a certain non-hostile liazardman in the Feerot, you could do the Shakey-needs-new-stuffing quest and get a rippin Belt of the River or a Wee Harvester (and look really bad runnin around whappin stuff w/ a big shovel!). I did that quest at a really low level (people told me I was crazy to try it - I literally got /tells "whoah, what are you doing here??" - cuz I was a total naked noob in a very dangerous zone) --- yet I finished the quest - and it was FUN. Yeah it was clunky and dumpy looking w/ low poly-count and etc. - but it was FUN.
That whole aspect is missing for me now. This new game is heavily "topped down" rather than "bottomed up", like the original - and conceptually this is huge - it means we are often following preordained paths - and we have very little choice.
The new game is very, very well programmed (sound engineers). The graphics are cool and spiffy ("look" over content - MTV). And it seems a lot of big creative and content and feature calls were made by consulting polls or trying to predict profitability - rather than from bold creative visionaries. That's my take, anyway. It curdles my blood to think this might be happening. I hope I'm wrong. But the signs are there.
Edited, Fri Jan 21 22:08:57 2005 by EvilGnomes
Edited, Fri Jan 21 22:18:29 2005 by EvilGnomes
8 posts
Evil - it's a fun theory, but it grossly underestimates the amount of toss music made in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Only the good stuff is remembered, which distorts perceptions over time.
You could be right.
But there was a brief explosion of creativity in rock and pop. Arguably the Beatles took what others had started and took it to new levels. And for a short while the bar was very high.
Then... dunno what happened. A similar phenom may be hitting us now. These parallels don't always perfectly track. In many ways the USA is like the Roman Empire. It's amazing what does track. But the USA is also significantly different. Same with comparing mmo's to other mediums.
But there was a brief explosion of creativity in rock and pop. Arguably the Beatles took what others had started and took it to new levels. And for a short while the bar was very high.
Then... dunno what happened. A similar phenom may be hitting us now. These parallels don't always perfectly track. In many ways the USA is like the Roman Empire. It's amazing what does track. But the USA is also significantly different. Same with comparing mmo's to other mediums.
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