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Tough road to HOFollow
I'm having trouble getting a handle on how Heroic Opportunities work and how best to use them. Can you folks give me any tips and hints or maybe point me to a primer on making the best use of HOs?
hmm are you talking about in a group or solo? that makes a big difference in how easy / hard HO's are to pull off.
Actually, I meant either solo or group. other than that they exist and that they can be a good thing, I don't understand the first thing about them!
by no means am i an expert at this, but i have my solo HO's down, and i work consistantly on group HO's to get them to work. I will go through each.
First the solo HO's. the easiet way i have found is to make a macro for them. When you create a macro there are 3 lines. so put your 3 skills for the HO in the macro, one on each line. For me as a predator, it goes something like "Lucky Break" (which is what starts the HO) then "Dirty Tricks" (which completes the chain) and finaly i use "Impale" (which completes the wheel and effectively completes the HO as well) Now there are differant options in the chain and the wheel portion but it always starts with the skill that starts your HO. if you dont know which one that is then right click your abilities and then left click on examine until you find out which one it is. if you macro your HO it will come up and be done with one click. Mine happens so fast that its no worse than using any one other ability.
Now Group HO's are more of a timing issue with your group. Before you start fighting you should designate who starts the HO. Then when that person starts the HO and the chain appears the next person in line clicks one of their glowing ability buttons, which should bring the chain to the wheel, then the next person in line clicks one of their glowing ability buttons to complete the wheel and the HO. Now there are a couple of notes in this. the person who starts the chain needs to let the group know he is going to do a HO. so you make a macro that says something like "Starting a HO in 3 seconds" this lets everyone know to not use any abilities for a few seconds. this is important because once the chain is started if an ability is used that is not glowing, then the chain is broken and the HO is killed, never making it to the wheel. However two people are allowed to break the chain when ever they want (more likely its when they need to though) those two people are your healer and your enchanter. much rather get healed and live then get a HO going and die, also is better to get those extra mobs slack jawed and drooling while waiting for their turn to get beat on then get a HO off but then the chanter ends up dead, which usually means death for everyone else.
I hope this helps out. the solo HO's are simple and easy to get, the grouping ones a lot more complicated, specialy in a pick up group.
First the solo HO's. the easiet way i have found is to make a macro for them. When you create a macro there are 3 lines. so put your 3 skills for the HO in the macro, one on each line. For me as a predator, it goes something like "Lucky Break" (which is what starts the HO) then "Dirty Tricks" (which completes the chain) and finaly i use "Impale" (which completes the wheel and effectively completes the HO as well) Now there are differant options in the chain and the wheel portion but it always starts with the skill that starts your HO. if you dont know which one that is then right click your abilities and then left click on examine until you find out which one it is. if you macro your HO it will come up and be done with one click. Mine happens so fast that its no worse than using any one other ability.
Now Group HO's are more of a timing issue with your group. Before you start fighting you should designate who starts the HO. Then when that person starts the HO and the chain appears the next person in line clicks one of their glowing ability buttons, which should bring the chain to the wheel, then the next person in line clicks one of their glowing ability buttons to complete the wheel and the HO. Now there are a couple of notes in this. the person who starts the chain needs to let the group know he is going to do a HO. so you make a macro that says something like "Starting a HO in 3 seconds" this lets everyone know to not use any abilities for a few seconds. this is important because once the chain is started if an ability is used that is not glowing, then the chain is broken and the HO is killed, never making it to the wheel. However two people are allowed to break the chain when ever they want (more likely its when they need to though) those two people are your healer and your enchanter. much rather get healed and live then get a HO going and die, also is better to get those extra mobs slack jawed and drooling while waiting for their turn to get beat on then get a HO off but then the chanter ends up dead, which usually means death for everyone else.
I hope this helps out. the solo HO's are simple and easy to get, the grouping ones a lot more complicated, specialy in a pick up group.
I can't claim to be an expert.. but here's what I know so far:
Solo they're MUCH easier to do.. regardless in a group or solo the basic formula remains the same:
HO Starter > ability 1 > ability 2 > (rarely but it can happen) ability 3
exactly which HO you'll get appears to be random.. with my conjuror I've yet to find a method to guarantee I'll get an Arcane storm finisher as opposed to an arcane fury.. (reason being arcane storm hits every mob in the group, arcane fury only hits one)
with my Conjuror HO's have to be very carefully used... due to the extra damage they deal I could very easily and quickly draw hate from my pet.. when I solo my predator however, I often do back to back HO's unless there's a better combat tactic.
I can't speak for everyone but I try to start combat with an initial strike, immediately followed by an HO to get the upper hand quickly if I'm playing my predator.
with my conjuror however.. HO's are used to end fights.. not at the start of them.
for example, with my predator combat goes something like this:
Initiate combat with either back shot or open shot to pull the mob away from friends if it has any.. if it does not.. <stealth> and initiate combat with <shadow blade> or <ambush>
use HO starter this gives me three choices of abilities to use for the "ability 1" part of the HO.. I tend to go with...
dirty tricks - a stunning strike which will also 'cause a posture change (forces the mob to kneeling) however if the mob is in mid swing the posture change does not take effect.. (important to know this)
once the delay to posture change is in effect, I'll do the 2nd ability, usually my options are pierce, quick strike, or impale.. since impale does the most damage, has the longest re-charge time, and the longest attack bar time.. I'll use it while the mob is on it's knees. (Impale to the face.. OUCH!)
this usually finishes the HO and gives me an ability which improves my agi (I think) for about 3 or so minutes or stuns the mob for a brief moment... this also does extreme amounts of damage at the start of the fight. Green con's are dead or in the DEEP red.. blues are in pain... whites are in the orange or deep yellow... not a bad way to start off a fight solo.
in a group the basics of HO's are the same.. but the coordination needed to make it happen is extremely high.. since any spell or combat art could very likely break the HO..
what I've done that works is to designate an HO starter who will declare starting HO in group say.. declare a second... who will do "Ability 1", declare who will do "ability 2", etc... this is an easy way to coordinate HO's and though it may limit you to a few options, I've yet to bump into a party observant enough to not ***** up each other's HO's without this kind of organized structure in place.
Solo they're MUCH easier to do.. regardless in a group or solo the basic formula remains the same:
HO Starter > ability 1 > ability 2 > (rarely but it can happen) ability 3
exactly which HO you'll get appears to be random.. with my conjuror I've yet to find a method to guarantee I'll get an Arcane storm finisher as opposed to an arcane fury.. (reason being arcane storm hits every mob in the group, arcane fury only hits one)
with my Conjuror HO's have to be very carefully used... due to the extra damage they deal I could very easily and quickly draw hate from my pet.. when I solo my predator however, I often do back to back HO's unless there's a better combat tactic.
I can't speak for everyone but I try to start combat with an initial strike, immediately followed by an HO to get the upper hand quickly if I'm playing my predator.
with my conjuror however.. HO's are used to end fights.. not at the start of them.
for example, with my predator combat goes something like this:
Initiate combat with either back shot or open shot to pull the mob away from friends if it has any.. if it does not.. <stealth> and initiate combat with <shadow blade> or <ambush>
use HO starter this gives me three choices of abilities to use for the "ability 1" part of the HO.. I tend to go with...
dirty tricks - a stunning strike which will also 'cause a posture change (forces the mob to kneeling) however if the mob is in mid swing the posture change does not take effect.. (important to know this)
once the delay to posture change is in effect, I'll do the 2nd ability, usually my options are pierce, quick strike, or impale.. since impale does the most damage, has the longest re-charge time, and the longest attack bar time.. I'll use it while the mob is on it's knees. (Impale to the face.. OUCH!)
this usually finishes the HO and gives me an ability which improves my agi (I think) for about 3 or so minutes or stuns the mob for a brief moment... this also does extreme amounts of damage at the start of the fight. Green con's are dead or in the DEEP red.. blues are in pain... whites are in the orange or deep yellow... not a bad way to start off a fight solo.
in a group the basics of HO's are the same.. but the coordination needed to make it happen is extremely high.. since any spell or combat art could very likely break the HO..
what I've done that works is to designate an HO starter who will declare starting HO in group say.. declare a second... who will do "Ability 1", declare who will do "ability 2", etc... this is an easy way to coordinate HO's and though it may limit you to a few options, I've yet to bump into a party observant enough to not ***** up each other's HO's without this kind of organized structure in place.
What server you playing on OBD?
Good informed posts btw guys.
Good informed posts btw guys.
to Tarv: Toxx
to Banter and Iaini: Great info from both of you. Dual rate ups, thanks!
Edited, Thu Jan 13 19:07:03 2005 by OldBlueDragon
to Banter and Iaini: Great info from both of you. Dual rate ups, thanks!
Edited, Thu Jan 13 19:07:03 2005 by OldBlueDragon
I wouldn't recommend the macro approach for some classes. Scout it can work because your activator is not resistable. On a fighter you activate with a hit and if you fail to connect your next line does the completor and you blew it.
I like to keep my options open as to which skills I use to activate and complete HO. For example i just got a debuff that works to activate but I'll only do it once per mob. So once it's in I use the old Dirty Tricks or Evade.
I have some serious doubts about their benefit in groups - even if youo can get them to work at all. We were doing very well the other night and had them working fine but in the time required to get to the extra damage I could have done more by using my skills alone.
There is a very good guide on them on the SoE forum Here
They make an enormous difference to solo or duo play.
I like to keep my options open as to which skills I use to activate and complete HO. For example i just got a debuff that works to activate but I'll only do it once per mob. So once it's in I use the old Dirty Tricks or Evade.
I have some serious doubts about their benefit in groups - even if youo can get them to work at all. We were doing very well the other night and had them working fine but in the time required to get to the extra damage I could have done more by using my skills alone.
There is a very good guide on them on the SoE forum Here
They make an enormous difference to solo or duo play.
Wherever I go - there I am.
I have been in a few groups where we actually "practiced" getting off certain group HOs. The shaman knew that if the scout started, then the mage went - then everyone else finished as the starter wheel indicated - we'd tend to get a nice buff and maybe a big group heal. We practiced that one for fighting tought ^^ mobs and bosses, etc.
Another type of HO started w/ the fighter, then the Healer doing strike, then the mage doing lightning - then we got a wheel that tended to do big damage. That was for speeding up fights.
So much depends on who starts the HO and then who goes *next*. You can't pick your exact HO, but you can angle it toward one set of three versus another set of three. Oh, and a scout who is really on the ball can use a Coin skill to swap a dumb HO for a shot at a new and better one. I've yet to see many scouts doing this, however. Very few players bother to master HOs, and I've only just begun to myself.
I wish I remembered exactly how we did it. That was my best group HO experience. I can tell you, with a patient, competent group doing smart HOs, a group can take down a really big named mob. W/out this... expect wipes.
It's really hard to get group HOs off. It gets tedious, and a lot of players get bored or frustrated. Many players simply don't have the discipline to do it. Google "eq2 heroic opportunity guides". And it's not always good. Sometimes it's best to just let people nuke, heal and whack, whatever.
Oh, I found the link I was looking for! Try this - it's really good: http://www.gnorrath.com/
Just be aware that group HOing doesn't happen much, at least from my exp. The tank often solo HOs in a group, and that's about it.
Like another poster said, for melee classes chain-hoing is a great idea while soloing (also for healers soloing). It's really easy, as they outlined, and do look into macroing them.
Another type of HO started w/ the fighter, then the Healer doing strike, then the mage doing lightning - then we got a wheel that tended to do big damage. That was for speeding up fights.
So much depends on who starts the HO and then who goes *next*. You can't pick your exact HO, but you can angle it toward one set of three versus another set of three. Oh, and a scout who is really on the ball can use a Coin skill to swap a dumb HO for a shot at a new and better one. I've yet to see many scouts doing this, however. Very few players bother to master HOs, and I've only just begun to myself.
I wish I remembered exactly how we did it. That was my best group HO experience. I can tell you, with a patient, competent group doing smart HOs, a group can take down a really big named mob. W/out this... expect wipes.
It's really hard to get group HOs off. It gets tedious, and a lot of players get bored or frustrated. Many players simply don't have the discipline to do it. Google "eq2 heroic opportunity guides". And it's not always good. Sometimes it's best to just let people nuke, heal and whack, whatever.
Oh, I found the link I was looking for! Try this - it's really good: http://www.gnorrath.com/
Just be aware that group HOing doesn't happen much, at least from my exp. The tank often solo HOs in a group, and that's about it.
Like another poster said, for melee classes chain-hoing is a great idea while soloing (also for healers soloing). It's really easy, as they outlined, and do look into macroing them.
I always chain HO when soloing and i have lvl 15+ in all broad classes now, i have yet to hit the point where i cannot use HO's to solo any of the yet but i think i am getting close.
The wife and I have Betrayed Scouts and we duo Ho's since we have 2 chances to switch to the damage one and we can both get good shots at Sneak attack/Backstab as the aggo bounces.
In group i have had 1 group that was very good at useing them because everyone had a role as described above
I was the scout so i switched if the bad one came up.
the only macro's used was
Starting....
Advancing
Switching
Completeing
It took us a couple of goes and 1 death to get into the swing but we had it so down by the end that the new joiners could settle right in and we tore a hole in the mobs. Makes quite a difference.
The wife and I have Betrayed Scouts and we duo Ho's since we have 2 chances to switch to the damage one and we can both get good shots at Sneak attack/Backstab as the aggo bounces.
In group i have had 1 group that was very good at useing them because everyone had a role as described above
I was the scout so i switched if the bad one came up.
the only macro's used was
Starting....
Advancing
Switching
Completeing
It took us a couple of goes and 1 death to get into the swing but we had it so down by the end that the new joiners could settle right in and we tore a hole in the mobs. Makes quite a difference.
13 posts
Well,
I am not an expert as well, but I have been practing HO with my guild .. specially when killing nameds and ^^mobs.
The link to Gnorrath that EvilGnomes post is a good place to learn about HOs and to study it.
What I do is:
First - What archetypes do I have in my group? Than I good to the list of HO's and look all possible option and what they do.
Second - That done I try to use the best of each ability. If you look it more carefull there are good HO's combination to be done.
Usually I stick to Green HO (Scouts) .. they are really good .. I like to do the following HO's:
1- when fight starts the group execute "Strenth in Unity" (Good group buff and easy to do)
2- Here I can either choose "Nature Growth" (Regeneration) or "Archaic Shackles" (Slow mobs)it will depend on how group is handling fight.
the point is that "Nature growth" is a medium difficult, so until you get this HO you will get group heal in the process. and for "archaic shackles" we have a change to get a "Crucible of life" (Full HP/power recharge) to proc.
3- For last I would get any high dmg HO
All this HO's have to be very coordnated. We have to ensure healers will have their time to cast their heal on tank and between one heal and other execute a HO.
Like I said, I am not an expert .. I am still trying to better use this HO. And the sequence I said work good with long killing (nameds and ^^ mobs). Low mobs die quick, so we don't use HO in this situation .. only when we want to practice.
Another thing that really helps me group to fight that way is the fact we use Skype to talk with each other .. This makes our lives much easier .. and it good to coordinate every single move.
I am not an expert as well, but I have been practing HO with my guild .. specially when killing nameds and ^^mobs.
The link to Gnorrath that EvilGnomes post is a good place to learn about HOs and to study it.
What I do is:
First - What archetypes do I have in my group? Than I good to the list of HO's and look all possible option and what they do.
Second - That done I try to use the best of each ability. If you look it more carefull there are good HO's combination to be done.
Usually I stick to Green HO (Scouts) .. they are really good .. I like to do the following HO's:
1- when fight starts the group execute "Strenth in Unity" (Good group buff and easy to do)
2- Here I can either choose "Nature Growth" (Regeneration) or "Archaic Shackles" (Slow mobs)it will depend on how group is handling fight.
the point is that "Nature growth" is a medium difficult, so until you get this HO you will get group heal in the process. and for "archaic shackles" we have a change to get a "Crucible of life" (Full HP/power recharge) to proc.
3- For last I would get any high dmg HO
All this HO's have to be very coordnated. We have to ensure healers will have their time to cast their heal on tank and between one heal and other execute a HO.
Like I said, I am not an expert .. I am still trying to better use this HO. And the sequence I said work good with long killing (nameds and ^^ mobs). Low mobs die quick, so we don't use HO in this situation .. only when we want to practice.
Another thing that really helps me group to fight that way is the fact we use Skype to talk with each other .. This makes our lives much easier .. and it good to coordinate every single move.
Ok... I think people have covered the mechanics of how HOs work pretty well so far, but here's what I've learned...
Phase 1 - Starter.
You click you or someone in your group clicks the HO starter. The translucent HO start symbols appear on the screen and certain abilities in your hotbar begin to flash. You use one of these flashing abilities to bring up the HO wheel, starting the HO. If you or anyone in your group use an ability not in the symbols the HO will be be broken and you'll have to start over.
Phase 2 - The Wheel
You now have a solid wheel. The wheel will have one or several symbols on it. You can complete theses icons in any order, and it doesn't matter if you use other abilitys... theres is a timer however that you have to race to complete it. Once you complete the wheel (use all the abilities) it fills in, the HO goes off, and you're done.
A couple notes:
***Remember, the first set of symbols is breakable... don't use any ability not on it. The second set is not, you can use anything.
***Someone mentioned "useless HOs"... well, scouts can shift the wheel. Ever notice the green coin that appears the the lower right of the wheel? Scouts can use an ability to change the effect of the wheel.
***If an ability is resisted or does now hit, it isn't counted for the starter or wheel.
Anyway... excuse any typos... it's early and I just got up. :)
Hope this helps.
Phase 1 - Starter.
You click you or someone in your group clicks the HO starter. The translucent HO start symbols appear on the screen and certain abilities in your hotbar begin to flash. You use one of these flashing abilities to bring up the HO wheel, starting the HO. If you or anyone in your group use an ability not in the symbols the HO will be be broken and you'll have to start over.
Phase 2 - The Wheel
You now have a solid wheel. The wheel will have one or several symbols on it. You can complete theses icons in any order, and it doesn't matter if you use other abilitys... theres is a timer however that you have to race to complete it. Once you complete the wheel (use all the abilities) it fills in, the HO goes off, and you're done.
A couple notes:
***Remember, the first set of symbols is breakable... don't use any ability not on it. The second set is not, you can use anything.
***Someone mentioned "useless HOs"... well, scouts can shift the wheel. Ever notice the green coin that appears the the lower right of the wheel? Scouts can use an ability to change the effect of the wheel.
***If an ability is resisted or does now hit, it isn't counted for the starter or wheel.
Anyway... excuse any typos... it's early and I just got up. :)
Hope this helps.
Thanks again to everyone who posted with information. I tried this stuff out while soloing last night and the difference was amazing. the blue^^ great bears in Oakmyst still kicked my butt around the forest but that was to be expected! They will yet feel the sting of my rapier like wit!
my conjuror wasn't able to take on those bears til they were green... they are much stronger than they appear and have a rather nasty special attack.
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