When the heck is WoW gonna be available again retail? Anyone know?
I checked it on ebay. There are regions of the country where it is still in stores, and ebayers are snatching it up and selling it for around $90 an auction. Man. I don't wanna pay that.
Well, GL all.
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- EQ2 or WoW>> Which is better??
EQ2 or WoW>> Which is better??Follow
First off, I came from FFXI and played that for about a year. As most of us know, that game is plagued with force grouping, no soloability whatsoever, bots of various kinds, an economy that's worse than apocolyptic russia, and an insanely crazy grind. From what I can tell, it seemed EQ2 would be something similiar to FFXI, but I really don't know for sure simply becuase I didn't play EQ2. Perhaps it is, then again maybe it's not, I really don't care. I do know that WoW, on the other hand, is a fantastic game, but it seems some people on these boards have some of their facts mixed up. Yes, the game can be soloable, but some of the best loot/exp are gained from Elite quests, or instances which do require a group for most. The economy isn't that great, while there are frequent loot drops and money can and will come to you fast, it leaves just as fast too. Finally, the servers are always crashing. I love wow, I think it's a fun game. Is it better than EQ2? Heh, I have no idea. I can tell you this, it can be the best game ever made but that doesn't amount to crap if the servers are crashing every hour or so. Seriously, if you plan on purchasing WoW and can't find a copy, well your not missing much.
Just recently, we had a 16 hour maintenance, that was suppose to fix the server stability issue, and it just made it worst. People are crashing, logging back in to see their characters rerolled back, or freaking logging in a hostile area and dying. For the record, I'm not bashing WoW, as I said I love the game, but if I were you guys, I'd stick with your EQ2 accounts for a bit, while Blizzard irons out this server issue.
Edited, Mon Jan 17 03:59:30 2005 by DoomChilde
Just recently, we had a 16 hour maintenance, that was suppose to fix the server stability issue, and it just made it worst. People are crashing, logging back in to see their characters rerolled back, or freaking logging in a hostile area and dying. For the record, I'm not bashing WoW, as I said I love the game, but if I were you guys, I'd stick with your EQ2 accounts for a bit, while Blizzard irons out this server issue.
Edited, Mon Jan 17 03:59:30 2005 by DoomChilde
Heheheh, we had a horrible crash a few weeks ago cuz SoE just HAD to rush a half-baked nerf er patch to the game on a Friday... game was dead the whole weekend almost. So it hasn't been perfect here, either.
I've been looking at WoW, and it seems to have more of the kind of stuff I want in a mmo. I am sure it isn't perfect. But it looks like it's more fun, less of a grind, and so on. People here sometimes "overdefend" eQ2, and I don't really blame them. It's actually got some killer stuff - but for me, they so horribly botched other stuff that it only ticks me off. I try to enjoy it, but it's getting increasingly hard for me to do so. Escpeically now that the tradeskill system is even harder... I didn't like it to start - I don't want to quit work to enter norrath and then work - bleh - peace, I know some of you love it - and that's okay - I understand. I don't.
Well, I'm going to try to chill out and be a calm gnome for a while here. That's not easy for me. But I'll try.
I've been looking at WoW, and it seems to have more of the kind of stuff I want in a mmo. I am sure it isn't perfect. But it looks like it's more fun, less of a grind, and so on. People here sometimes "overdefend" eQ2, and I don't really blame them. It's actually got some killer stuff - but for me, they so horribly botched other stuff that it only ticks me off. I try to enjoy it, but it's getting increasingly hard for me to do so. Escpeically now that the tradeskill system is even harder... I didn't like it to start - I don't want to quit work to enter norrath and then work - bleh - peace, I know some of you love it - and that's okay - I understand. I don't.
Well, I'm going to try to chill out and be a calm gnome for a while here. That's not easy for me. But I'll try.
I guess I have been lucky. I have yet to crash out of my server in WoW. And the 16 hour maint was only a few hours for me, and I was at work for it.
Maybe I'm also lucky because I love both games and thoroughly enjoy each of them. I have mid level characters on both and enjoy everything that both have to offer.
I also keep my FFXI account around just in case I get the urge to play that very good game as well. Sure they all have problems (I guess) but none of them are so bad that I won't play them.
Sometimes I enjoy the grind sometimes I don't. That is what decides which I play on what day..
Maybe I'm also lucky because I love both games and thoroughly enjoy each of them. I have mid level characters on both and enjoy everything that both have to offer.
I also keep my FFXI account around just in case I get the urge to play that very good game as well. Sure they all have problems (I guess) but none of them are so bad that I won't play them.
Sometimes I enjoy the grind sometimes I don't. That is what decides which I play on what day..
I completely agree what Laudaan said. I play both games too (although I spend less and less time on WoW and mroe and more time on EQ2) and found both games are in fact targeting towards differnt groups of players. WoW is for a more causal group of players who usually don't have much time to play in each session whereas in EQ2 you need more time to accomplish something. yet that doesn't mean WoW or EQ2 is better than the other.
as i've always said, you have to try both games to see which one is for you.
as i've always said, you have to try both games to see which one is for you.
Sorry guys! Too busy to reply, playing WoW. Chat with you later!
Edit: Blizzard is slowly releasing product. Check their website every once in a while. They will sell a few boxes then show out of stock. I verified this with their phone rep. You might also want to call them since they said they had a bunch of them available for sale yet the website showed out of stock. I was able to place the order over the phone even though the website was sold out.
Edited, Mon Jan 17 18:52:10 2005 by Tocopheryl
Edit: Blizzard is slowly releasing product. Check their website every once in a while. They will sell a few boxes then show out of stock. I verified this with their phone rep. You might also want to call them since they said they had a bunch of them available for sale yet the website showed out of stock. I was able to place the order over the phone even though the website was sold out.
Edited, Mon Jan 17 18:52:10 2005 by Tocopheryl
Just wanted to add that Blizzard has now added a Que to the logging process, logged in today and I was qued at 842...took me about 1.5 hrs to log in. The grass is not all that greener on this side...stay with EQ2 until this crap gets fixed.
Scholar
33 posts
Oh yeah another "vs" thread. :)
There are pros and cons for both games, I own and play both, but I have to admit, Wow is certainly "easier" overall in its gameplay, etc. But they both have some issues that need to be put to bed to make either of them truly great.
Wow Pros:
-Crafting system is easy
-Game runs smooth as butter on low end machines
seemless "zoning" to different parts of the world map that appears as "no zoning"
-Overall the world is neat in its imagination
-Easy leveling
-PVP enablable on PVE server, and PVP servers (But I actually dont like PVP cause of imature players)
-Travel is novel with Griffons and Trams
-Pet commands and upgrades are nice.
-No XP debt just equipment damage. And option to just rez for a penalty at Graveyard.
Wow Cons
-Travel is very painful if you do not have a mount or are not near Griffon/tram system
-Graphics in my opinion are too limited in the character department (my human could only have four looks Lumberjack, ******, Old man, or Lion(face)) Not enough different races, or individual customizations.
-Mobs can hit you ranged through buildings, but you get "cannot see target" Very frustrating.
-Aggro range on some mobs way too high and they cluster many of them too close, that along with short respawn gets old fast.
-Some common drops still take forever to drop.
-Blizzard drop the ball on how popular the "warcraft" title would be and left alot of peeps with no game and those who have the game like me get to periodically enjoy the "queue".
-Patching sometimes takes forever.
-Same old make a level go buy a spell sometimes you just cannot afford them, especially now that you have to get your pets trained too. Also training can get expensive and if you are a craftsperson that also eats your finances even worse.
EQ2 Pros
-First off the Graphics are just amazing no matter how it runs not a game out there imho with the same level of detail.
-Alot of content, many many quests to keep you busy.
-Very nice character animations and effects.
-Many classes (Although frogloks should not be locked imo) decently balanced classes and subclasses.
-Character customization is tremendous.
-Still the most customizable gui out there, not one thing cannot be made to your personal prefs.
-All toons get sprint making long hauls more tolerable, and some nicely placed griffon stations.
-Grouping can be very fun with the right combinations.
-"HO's" Heroic opportunities for Solo play is sweet.
-No XP loss when you die.
-Get your base spells as you level and still can customize your toons attributes as you level.
-Combat system for both melee and casters is very smooth especially with spell and ability queuing.
Cons
-Graphics are really really nice, most systems have problems running the game, and Nvidia and SOE for those with those cards are having a problem fixing stutter issues.
-At low levels everyone practically looks the same.
-Zoning into various areas take a long time on sub 768MB RAM systems. Sometimes 1 minute or longer at 512MB or lower on some systems.
-No PVP (but this is not news was stated during development just figured to put this in for those who like it.)
-Nice broker system in place to help buy player goods in many locations but, poor implimentation of player brokers, we should not have to remain logged in to sell (more of an issue cause they patch almost daily), nice not to have centralized bazarre but in WOW you can log off and still sell.)
-Unlike EQlive I dont see any items yet that have special features with the exception of Journyman boots.
-No loss of XP when you die but if you are unlucky in a group the XP debt can negates this bonus.
-Same old quests like Wow and all other games. Nothing that stands out.
-My biggest peeve only 4 characters to start with, so you are limited on all those nifty classes and races.
These are just my observations. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. I like both games, I hate the issues above, but I have beta tested many games including MMORPGs. All of them even at live status are going to be continuously works in progress. That is the nature. There will always be bugs in all of them and all of them will fix bugs and those fixes may make new ones. Not too different from production server life in a non gaming corporation. As well both side Wow and EQ2 players will have some who say that Blizzard or SOE dont listen to the gamers requests, etc.
I myself like EQ2 more cause it is harder for me. I love Warcraft and own almost every version but for me their particular artistic style is not to my taste. I am sure by now some of the things above may have been worked on or not, and I know I have missed a bunch of things, but I am just shooting these off.
Play both since you can for 30 days, and if you dont want to play one then dont... but be respectfull of both games cause really these things are expensive to create, and maintain. Also respect all gamers Wow and Eq2 cause we are all gluttons for punishment by even playing them :)
-peace
There are pros and cons for both games, I own and play both, but I have to admit, Wow is certainly "easier" overall in its gameplay, etc. But they both have some issues that need to be put to bed to make either of them truly great.
Wow Pros:
-Crafting system is easy
-Game runs smooth as butter on low end machines
seemless "zoning" to different parts of the world map that appears as "no zoning"
-Overall the world is neat in its imagination
-Easy leveling
-PVP enablable on PVE server, and PVP servers (But I actually dont like PVP cause of imature players)
-Travel is novel with Griffons and Trams
-Pet commands and upgrades are nice.
-No XP debt just equipment damage. And option to just rez for a penalty at Graveyard.
Wow Cons
-Travel is very painful if you do not have a mount or are not near Griffon/tram system
-Graphics in my opinion are too limited in the character department (my human could only have four looks Lumberjack, ******, Old man, or Lion(face)) Not enough different races, or individual customizations.
-Mobs can hit you ranged through buildings, but you get "cannot see target" Very frustrating.
-Aggro range on some mobs way too high and they cluster many of them too close, that along with short respawn gets old fast.
-Some common drops still take forever to drop.
-Blizzard drop the ball on how popular the "warcraft" title would be and left alot of peeps with no game and those who have the game like me get to periodically enjoy the "queue".
-Patching sometimes takes forever.
-Same old make a level go buy a spell sometimes you just cannot afford them, especially now that you have to get your pets trained too. Also training can get expensive and if you are a craftsperson that also eats your finances even worse.
EQ2 Pros
-First off the Graphics are just amazing no matter how it runs not a game out there imho with the same level of detail.
-Alot of content, many many quests to keep you busy.
-Very nice character animations and effects.
-Many classes (Although frogloks should not be locked imo) decently balanced classes and subclasses.
-Character customization is tremendous.
-Still the most customizable gui out there, not one thing cannot be made to your personal prefs.
-All toons get sprint making long hauls more tolerable, and some nicely placed griffon stations.
-Grouping can be very fun with the right combinations.
-"HO's" Heroic opportunities for Solo play is sweet.
-No XP loss when you die.
-Get your base spells as you level and still can customize your toons attributes as you level.
-Combat system for both melee and casters is very smooth especially with spell and ability queuing.
Cons
-Graphics are really really nice, most systems have problems running the game, and Nvidia and SOE for those with those cards are having a problem fixing stutter issues.
-At low levels everyone practically looks the same.
-Zoning into various areas take a long time on sub 768MB RAM systems. Sometimes 1 minute or longer at 512MB or lower on some systems.
-No PVP (but this is not news was stated during development just figured to put this in for those who like it.)
-Nice broker system in place to help buy player goods in many locations but, poor implimentation of player brokers, we should not have to remain logged in to sell (more of an issue cause they patch almost daily), nice not to have centralized bazarre but in WOW you can log off and still sell.)
-Unlike EQlive I dont see any items yet that have special features with the exception of Journyman boots.
-No loss of XP when you die but if you are unlucky in a group the XP debt can negates this bonus.
-Same old quests like Wow and all other games. Nothing that stands out.
-My biggest peeve only 4 characters to start with, so you are limited on all those nifty classes and races.
These are just my observations. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. I like both games, I hate the issues above, but I have beta tested many games including MMORPGs. All of them even at live status are going to be continuously works in progress. That is the nature. There will always be bugs in all of them and all of them will fix bugs and those fixes may make new ones. Not too different from production server life in a non gaming corporation. As well both side Wow and EQ2 players will have some who say that Blizzard or SOE dont listen to the gamers requests, etc.
I myself like EQ2 more cause it is harder for me. I love Warcraft and own almost every version but for me their particular artistic style is not to my taste. I am sure by now some of the things above may have been worked on or not, and I know I have missed a bunch of things, but I am just shooting these off.
Play both since you can for 30 days, and if you dont want to play one then dont... but be respectfull of both games cause really these things are expensive to create, and maintain. Also respect all gamers Wow and Eq2 cause we are all gluttons for punishment by even playing them :)
-peace
Before I go on, I want to say you did a good job on your post.
You talk about respect. Respect is good. But that doesn't mean we have to take every decision these companies make lying down.
Sure they take a lot of work. So why mess up all that work by making really stupid decisions?
Only four character slots. That's hurting EQ so much it's silly. A ton of players seriously resent this.
Online selling. I wouldn't be surprised if some beancounter demanded this - with the idea it will spur us to buy more accounts so we can sell. But we know better - we know some sort of offline system is doable and better.
Too heavily egalitarian - too much emphasis on making it all equal - so nothing stands out.
You forot in the EQ2 cons to point out that while EQ hyped us for many months that this game would push the envelope, that it would be wildly innovative - there is almost no sign of this in the actual game.
Also, the combat system is not new and not innovative. It's stolen/borrowed from DaoC and FFxi, reworked a bit- and that's it. It's a step backwards and sideways, not forwards. It's also very, very limited in terms of tactical choices - and spell variety. And for me, now, tedious and boring.
Yeah, we at some point need to respect the people who make these games. But they also need to respect us. There isn't true "market pressure" here imo - the protetion that real market forces would normally give us the consumer are just not here- there are so few companies who can compete - and the barriers to entry are too high. People who make screwed up creative decisions and make whole *teams* of creative talent waste their time on stuff that will have to be fixed cuz it ain't workin and people are leaving the game... see, that's what *constructive criticism* is for. That's what this is all about. "Constructive, EvilGnome?" some of you are asking. Yes, look at my posts. I want to make the game better. I'm not sniping at it for self-aggrandizement, trust me- I have better things to do w/ my time. I'm really hoping for a better game, if not w/ this one, w/ future ones.
So please, let's not suggest or hint that discussing what does not work in a game is wrong because it shows disrespect towards people who work hard on it. They are paid well, btw, and they are expected to get it right. Pressure should be kept on them, and they should pay if they ***** up. It's how things work in this world, and it's the only thing that keeps us honest, imo.
Sorry if I'm harsh, but ... well, what can I say?
You talk about respect. Respect is good. But that doesn't mean we have to take every decision these companies make lying down.
Sure they take a lot of work. So why mess up all that work by making really stupid decisions?
Only four character slots. That's hurting EQ so much it's silly. A ton of players seriously resent this.
Online selling. I wouldn't be surprised if some beancounter demanded this - with the idea it will spur us to buy more accounts so we can sell. But we know better - we know some sort of offline system is doable and better.
Too heavily egalitarian - too much emphasis on making it all equal - so nothing stands out.
You forot in the EQ2 cons to point out that while EQ hyped us for many months that this game would push the envelope, that it would be wildly innovative - there is almost no sign of this in the actual game.
Also, the combat system is not new and not innovative. It's stolen/borrowed from DaoC and FFxi, reworked a bit- and that's it. It's a step backwards and sideways, not forwards. It's also very, very limited in terms of tactical choices - and spell variety. And for me, now, tedious and boring.
Yeah, we at some point need to respect the people who make these games. But they also need to respect us. There isn't true "market pressure" here imo - the protetion that real market forces would normally give us the consumer are just not here- there are so few companies who can compete - and the barriers to entry are too high. People who make screwed up creative decisions and make whole *teams* of creative talent waste their time on stuff that will have to be fixed cuz it ain't workin and people are leaving the game... see, that's what *constructive criticism* is for. That's what this is all about. "Constructive, EvilGnome?" some of you are asking. Yes, look at my posts. I want to make the game better. I'm not sniping at it for self-aggrandizement, trust me- I have better things to do w/ my time. I'm really hoping for a better game, if not w/ this one, w/ future ones.
So please, let's not suggest or hint that discussing what does not work in a game is wrong because it shows disrespect towards people who work hard on it. They are paid well, btw, and they are expected to get it right. Pressure should be kept on them, and they should pay if they ***** up. It's how things work in this world, and it's the only thing that keeps us honest, imo.
Sorry if I'm harsh, but ... well, what can I say?
I like both games but I currently am unable to enjoy EQII. Its not the challenge, its the difficulty. I, like everyone else, enjoy a good challenge and will put forth all my effort to do the best I can and to overcome. Emphasis on GOOD. What's so difficult? To have fun. (warning, each persons meaning of 'fun' is totally different; S&M anyone?) Here is an example of the difficulty in having fun which I did not have when I first started the game. Please note that the free 30 days were mostly spent in these levels and not in playing the 'real' game as they meant it to be played. It feels like a bait and switch scam...
Pro - Log in and begin the character creation process. Super ultra modify my character so he looks 100% what I imagine a gnome Fury would look like. Change every little detail from the curve of his eyebrow to the length of his nose to the age and height. Amazing! There is so much detail that its impossible that anyone else will EVER look like me! I am totally impressed.
Con - When in first person I don't see my character and my view is limited since peripheral is so small. This is expected. In 3rd person I like to see as much as possible of what is around me that.... every single gnome looks exactly the same except for their hairstyle and color. The armor covers so much that I can't even tell what color their skin is. Why so much customization if I can't even see it unless I zoom in? The Pro of allowing all the customization is pointless since, in reality, I won't ever be able to tell 2 PCs apart unless I zoom in or first person. The Pro is now canceled by this. Looks great on paper but not really a big deal in game.
Con - Get to level 20 and get a spell that gives me some great stats but removes all my customization and makes me look like every Fury out there. Plus I have no sitting, jumping, swimming, you name it animation. Fix: Collect the race bones to get a petrified eye and change my form to a different race. Yes I don't look like myself but at least I don't look like a lioness. SOE Fixes me: Petrified eyes require a bone in order to be used. The Con now overshadows the Pro.
Pro - Name character and log in to play. Follow the glowy line to several quests and gain levels while being taught how to play the game adventuring/crafting. Start collection quests and get good rewards and nice XP. Leave and move on to Qeynos. So far so good. Level to 15 in groups and solo while doing mostly quests and no grinding. Excellent XP from quests that require me to do minimal 'grind' and kill the same mobs or, if I have to kill the same mob, get excellent XP from the quest that asked me to kill these mobs. Double the XP with a great reward in the end. Tons of quests that give items, XP and money. Solo green ^^ mobs for a good challenge and some loot to sell in order be able to buy my spell upgrades and armor.
Con - Get to level 20 and find limited quests and any quest worth anything requires a group or for the mob to be green/gray in order to complete. XP debt really adds up in groups and receiving 50% less XP per kill is very unrewarding. Group ^^ mobs now do more damage and are no longer challenging. Find that the game has a clear you win/lose side totally dependant of level. You can either totally defeat a mob and it not do much to you or you are wiped with hits that do 600 points of damage. Challenging mobs are now solo mobs that are not even worth the reward and time. This cancels out my Pro on character leveling. A challenge, for me, is a good reward for something challenging. Not something challenging with pathetic rewards.
Con - I have to sit in my apartment in order to sell all the great loot I got. I either leave my computer on all night (its in my bedroom) and have it annoy me or take a break from the game every other night in an effort to sell. Bah! I hate this... I might as well just go sell to the merchants and be done with it. Which is what I ended up doing. This cancels out my Pro for all the great loot. Does it matter that I get loot every 4 kills that I can sell for 10s? Con wins again.
Time to take a break from XP because this 'game' is frustrating me and no longer fun.
Pro - Try out the crafting system and... OMG! Fall in love with it! AMAZING! Its now interactive, it damages you if you mess up and you actually have a lot to do! This is a game in of itself! Its like SOE decided to add their own mini-game and added it to crafting. Run around collecting material and craft everything on earth just for the sheer joy of it! I was wrong to want to be an adventurer, crafting is where its at! OK, I'll make a deal with myself, I will craft most of the time and go out and adventure every once in a while. When I can find a good group I will stick with them or I'll just fall back to crafting! YAY! Then you have different skill levels and can choose a career. Wait, a career? Like a second job?
Con - Get to level 10 and have to choose a career. You are now getting a second job (if you only have 1 job in real life). Your choices are limited and you need ridiculous amounts of items that you cannot make in order to level up your crafting. Go to the broker and buy what you need from other players... oh wait, no one is selling what you need. Gah! There goes that idea....
Con - I have to take off an entire day from adventuring/crafting in order to sell all my crafted items that I can only craft when players are selling what I need. I am totally dependant on others and their mood swings. Others that are forced to sit in their apartments in order to be able to sell to me. I guess this 'feature' is more apparent here than in adventuring since you will have more items to sell. Totally canceling out any benefit from crafting and giving Con the win... again.
Pro - Levels 1-20 were a joy. Let me go make a new and different character and enjoy that aspect of it. Maybe Fury just wasn't what I wanted to play in the first place. Maybe a Mage with a pet would be more enjoyable. Yeah, maybe I will try different classes and combinations to fill my moods since they have so much to pick from.
Con - 4 characters per account. Not per server, per account. What?... No seriously, what? You give me all these options and you only give me 4 character slots per account? The only game where I had less than 4 characters was in FFXI but I was able to be any class with the same character. My Taru Taru was mainly a WHM and SMN (both same level) and I had every class I liked to at least level 25 (the casting classes) and the rest to level 15. I need something new every once in a while and I am tired of being forced into 1 main class. Now I am prevented from playing with so much of the content because I need to delete a character in order to create a new one.
Con - If I pay you more and join some service that will not benefit me in any way what so ever since I don't play any other game on it, you will give me 4 more slots? What do I get if I turn my other cheek? Free Adventure Packs? How about I cancel my account and give you the finger? I just feel more and more
Towards the end of my playing time... with my 27 Fury... I only logged in to say hi to my guild, assist them when they needed a healer and leave myself in merchant mode. Yes, you read correctly. For an entire week I would log in and sell items while I minimized the game and read forums or played other games. Then I decided to quit and I am out 6 months subscription because I liked the part of the game they used to hook me and that's all it was for. To hook me.
Finding 'fun' in this game became a chore: Is this quest different, can I solo it? Is this a good group, no more debt? Will someone be selling what I need, at reasonable prices? I feel the difficulty in the game has been raised but its in finding enjoyment. This game simply does not cater to me as is. I wasn't aware of the 4 character limit when I first started. No where does it say that. I didn't find out about it until the Create button went away and I looked online for reasons why it did. Then, to add insult to injury, players that benefit from having the Access subscription get 8 more slots! If that wasn't enough they will now also get free Adventure Packs. I will just take my money elsewhere.
Too bad they made a game for the people then decided that the people would be fine when they took all of that away. This is just the same ole MMORPG with the first 15 levels different enough to make you think the game is different and innovative.
After rereading my post... I guess the game has gotten to the point where I seriously doubt that SOE can fix it. They spoiled me for 30 days and gave me innovation and enjoyment. Only to have them take it all away and force me into their Vision. I thought I was playing their Vision. I guess I was playing a game where they hadn't implemented their Vision yet.
Pro - Log in and begin the character creation process. Super ultra modify my character so he looks 100% what I imagine a gnome Fury would look like. Change every little detail from the curve of his eyebrow to the length of his nose to the age and height. Amazing! There is so much detail that its impossible that anyone else will EVER look like me! I am totally impressed.
Con - When in first person I don't see my character and my view is limited since peripheral is so small. This is expected. In 3rd person I like to see as much as possible of what is around me that.... every single gnome looks exactly the same except for their hairstyle and color. The armor covers so much that I can't even tell what color their skin is. Why so much customization if I can't even see it unless I zoom in? The Pro of allowing all the customization is pointless since, in reality, I won't ever be able to tell 2 PCs apart unless I zoom in or first person. The Pro is now canceled by this. Looks great on paper but not really a big deal in game.
Con - Get to level 20 and get a spell that gives me some great stats but removes all my customization and makes me look like every Fury out there. Plus I have no sitting, jumping, swimming, you name it animation. Fix: Collect the race bones to get a petrified eye and change my form to a different race. Yes I don't look like myself but at least I don't look like a lioness. SOE Fixes me: Petrified eyes require a bone in order to be used. The Con now overshadows the Pro.
Pro - Name character and log in to play. Follow the glowy line to several quests and gain levels while being taught how to play the game adventuring/crafting. Start collection quests and get good rewards and nice XP. Leave and move on to Qeynos. So far so good. Level to 15 in groups and solo while doing mostly quests and no grinding. Excellent XP from quests that require me to do minimal 'grind' and kill the same mobs or, if I have to kill the same mob, get excellent XP from the quest that asked me to kill these mobs. Double the XP with a great reward in the end. Tons of quests that give items, XP and money. Solo green ^^ mobs for a good challenge and some loot to sell in order be able to buy my spell upgrades and armor.
Con - Get to level 20 and find limited quests and any quest worth anything requires a group or for the mob to be green/gray in order to complete. XP debt really adds up in groups and receiving 50% less XP per kill is very unrewarding. Group ^^ mobs now do more damage and are no longer challenging. Find that the game has a clear you win/lose side totally dependant of level. You can either totally defeat a mob and it not do much to you or you are wiped with hits that do 600 points of damage. Challenging mobs are now solo mobs that are not even worth the reward and time. This cancels out my Pro on character leveling. A challenge, for me, is a good reward for something challenging. Not something challenging with pathetic rewards.
Con - I have to sit in my apartment in order to sell all the great loot I got. I either leave my computer on all night (its in my bedroom) and have it annoy me or take a break from the game every other night in an effort to sell. Bah! I hate this... I might as well just go sell to the merchants and be done with it. Which is what I ended up doing. This cancels out my Pro for all the great loot. Does it matter that I get loot every 4 kills that I can sell for 10s? Con wins again.
Time to take a break from XP because this 'game' is frustrating me and no longer fun.
Pro - Try out the crafting system and... OMG! Fall in love with it! AMAZING! Its now interactive, it damages you if you mess up and you actually have a lot to do! This is a game in of itself! Its like SOE decided to add their own mini-game and added it to crafting. Run around collecting material and craft everything on earth just for the sheer joy of it! I was wrong to want to be an adventurer, crafting is where its at! OK, I'll make a deal with myself, I will craft most of the time and go out and adventure every once in a while. When I can find a good group I will stick with them or I'll just fall back to crafting! YAY! Then you have different skill levels and can choose a career. Wait, a career? Like a second job?
Con - Get to level 10 and have to choose a career. You are now getting a second job (if you only have 1 job in real life). Your choices are limited and you need ridiculous amounts of items that you cannot make in order to level up your crafting. Go to the broker and buy what you need from other players... oh wait, no one is selling what you need. Gah! There goes that idea....
Con - I have to take off an entire day from adventuring/crafting in order to sell all my crafted items that I can only craft when players are selling what I need. I am totally dependant on others and their mood swings. Others that are forced to sit in their apartments in order to be able to sell to me. I guess this 'feature' is more apparent here than in adventuring since you will have more items to sell. Totally canceling out any benefit from crafting and giving Con the win... again.
Pro - Levels 1-20 were a joy. Let me go make a new and different character and enjoy that aspect of it. Maybe Fury just wasn't what I wanted to play in the first place. Maybe a Mage with a pet would be more enjoyable. Yeah, maybe I will try different classes and combinations to fill my moods since they have so much to pick from.
Con - 4 characters per account. Not per server, per account. What?... No seriously, what? You give me all these options and you only give me 4 character slots per account? The only game where I had less than 4 characters was in FFXI but I was able to be any class with the same character. My Taru Taru was mainly a WHM and SMN (both same level) and I had every class I liked to at least level 25 (the casting classes) and the rest to level 15. I need something new every once in a while and I am tired of being forced into 1 main class. Now I am prevented from playing with so much of the content because I need to delete a character in order to create a new one.
Con - If I pay you more and join some service that will not benefit me in any way what so ever since I don't play any other game on it, you will give me 4 more slots? What do I get if I turn my other cheek? Free Adventure Packs? How about I cancel my account and give you the finger? I just feel more and more
Towards the end of my playing time... with my 27 Fury... I only logged in to say hi to my guild, assist them when they needed a healer and leave myself in merchant mode. Yes, you read correctly. For an entire week I would log in and sell items while I minimized the game and read forums or played other games. Then I decided to quit and I am out 6 months subscription because I liked the part of the game they used to hook me and that's all it was for. To hook me.
Finding 'fun' in this game became a chore: Is this quest different, can I solo it? Is this a good group, no more debt? Will someone be selling what I need, at reasonable prices? I feel the difficulty in the game has been raised but its in finding enjoyment. This game simply does not cater to me as is. I wasn't aware of the 4 character limit when I first started. No where does it say that. I didn't find out about it until the Create button went away and I looked online for reasons why it did. Then, to add insult to injury, players that benefit from having the Access subscription get 8 more slots! If that wasn't enough they will now also get free Adventure Packs. I will just take my money elsewhere.
Too bad they made a game for the people then decided that the people would be fine when they took all of that away. This is just the same ole MMORPG with the first 15 levels different enough to make you think the game is different and innovative.
After rereading my post... I guess the game has gotten to the point where I seriously doubt that SOE can fix it. They spoiled me for 30 days and gave me innovation and enjoyment. Only to have them take it all away and force me into their Vision. I thought I was playing their Vision. I guess I was playing a game where they hadn't implemented their Vision yet.
One thing for sure, every game will have its fans and its knockers, and all for very personal reasons.
After playing EQ1 for 4 years, I'm loving EQ2. And why? Well, as a warrior in EQ1, I felt pretty useless because I was so dependent on others for being able to play. Spending hours lfg was just no fun.
Now, in EQ2, I can solo, group, craft, collect resources and have a ton of quests running.
Of course, I'm only level 20 (Guardian) so will be interesting to see if the level of playability continues. But I'm feeling so far that this is a game I'll be playing for several years.
EQ1 has changed enormously over the years with many of the basic things being completely turned around, and I'll bet that happens with EQ2 as well. For example, I'd be willing to put money on there being more characters available per account in the future. (But for online selling, well that's how it was in EQ1, so who knows?)
I can say that WoW would definately not be my cup of tea. Sounds just too easy to level and I've read too many comments about the maturity of the general population. Also I just don't like the look of the graphics.
EQ2 feels challenging in a similar way to EQ1, that's what keeps me hooked. But there's one more thing, I have a great guild around me that came over from EQ1, and that is everything
After playing EQ1 for 4 years, I'm loving EQ2. And why? Well, as a warrior in EQ1, I felt pretty useless because I was so dependent on others for being able to play. Spending hours lfg was just no fun.
Now, in EQ2, I can solo, group, craft, collect resources and have a ton of quests running.
Of course, I'm only level 20 (Guardian) so will be interesting to see if the level of playability continues. But I'm feeling so far that this is a game I'll be playing for several years.
EQ1 has changed enormously over the years with many of the basic things being completely turned around, and I'll bet that happens with EQ2 as well. For example, I'd be willing to put money on there being more characters available per account in the future. (But for online selling, well that's how it was in EQ1, so who knows?)
I can say that WoW would definately not be my cup of tea. Sounds just too easy to level and I've read too many comments about the maturity of the general population. Also I just don't like the look of the graphics.
EQ2 feels challenging in a similar way to EQ1, that's what keeps me hooked. But there's one more thing, I have a great guild around me that came over from EQ1, and that is everything
I just got my 2 copies of WoW so i guess i'll let yall know my experiences in a few days. =)
Everyone should read Toco's long post above - I know, you might have just skipped it cuz it's long. Don't. It's excellent.
That is EXACTLY what is wrong w/ EQ2.
I'm in test playing a summoner now, occasionally. I'm soloing 90% of the time - and mostly people in test leave u alone. I'm doing zero tradeskilling. As a summoner I don't really need items - all I really need is a good pet and a few upgrades on key spells, like heal pet and DoT. I lucked into an adept 1 pet, so I'm doing okay. If I hang in there til 20 I'm hoping htat the new Spec Training pet option is good enough. If not, that's it.
And when I can finally get Wow, I'm going to be trying out that.
Toco, again, that was awesome. The only points I could add to your post are... lemme see... oh this:
No beetchin cool "must have" items. Well Jman boots are in game, that's an exception- if they even work. But in other games there are must-have items that you really really wanna own. They are hard to get but ... at least I was a fool for em and worked hard to get em - I actually would go camp BILGE if was bored and tired of expin in old EQ. I don't wanna think how many trips I made to DC, cleared mobs,... and no bilge. Was starting to wonder if he was a hoax when one day, after murderin undertow skels and whatnot, lo and behond BILGE! He was on track. I killed him in a tough fight and got the PKT, pearl kedge totem, +18 wis. Maybe these items are all high lvl and we just haven't found em yet - but ... it doesn't seem the same. No magic items stand out so far. They are all 'balanced' w/ each other and boring yawn zzzz. There ought to be really hard to get items or really rare items that have at least one seriously good stat or some very cool ability. Well, pet. eyes are fun even if u have to burn a bone - so there are some. But... again, nothing that blows me away. Hopefully they will change this.
Same for spells. I used to drool over spells in old EQ. If only I could get to lvl x and get this new cool spell - see, the new spells really mattered - once u finally got that spell or ability doors opened for you - you could get up and fly - you could take down names and kick asp - you could suddenly hunt for big stuff - or life became easy for you - it was very cool. In this new game the spells are all watered down... dull... unimaginative. And the prelaunch hype was about how cool and innovative this game was going to be. Well, not in the spells department. They are boring, truncated, neutered and spayed. And yeah, like was posted above, I too am starting to think maybe this is unfixable. EQ3 anyone? ...sigh
That is EXACTLY what is wrong w/ EQ2.
I'm in test playing a summoner now, occasionally. I'm soloing 90% of the time - and mostly people in test leave u alone. I'm doing zero tradeskilling. As a summoner I don't really need items - all I really need is a good pet and a few upgrades on key spells, like heal pet and DoT. I lucked into an adept 1 pet, so I'm doing okay. If I hang in there til 20 I'm hoping htat the new Spec Training pet option is good enough. If not, that's it.
And when I can finally get Wow, I'm going to be trying out that.
Toco, again, that was awesome. The only points I could add to your post are... lemme see... oh this:
No beetchin cool "must have" items. Well Jman boots are in game, that's an exception- if they even work. But in other games there are must-have items that you really really wanna own. They are hard to get but ... at least I was a fool for em and worked hard to get em - I actually would go camp BILGE if was bored and tired of expin in old EQ. I don't wanna think how many trips I made to DC, cleared mobs,... and no bilge. Was starting to wonder if he was a hoax when one day, after murderin undertow skels and whatnot, lo and behond BILGE! He was on track. I killed him in a tough fight and got the PKT, pearl kedge totem, +18 wis. Maybe these items are all high lvl and we just haven't found em yet - but ... it doesn't seem the same. No magic items stand out so far. They are all 'balanced' w/ each other and boring yawn zzzz. There ought to be really hard to get items or really rare items that have at least one seriously good stat or some very cool ability. Well, pet. eyes are fun even if u have to burn a bone - so there are some. But... again, nothing that blows me away. Hopefully they will change this.
Same for spells. I used to drool over spells in old EQ. If only I could get to lvl x and get this new cool spell - see, the new spells really mattered - once u finally got that spell or ability doors opened for you - you could get up and fly - you could take down names and kick asp - you could suddenly hunt for big stuff - or life became easy for you - it was very cool. In this new game the spells are all watered down... dull... unimaginative. And the prelaunch hype was about how cool and innovative this game was going to be. Well, not in the spells department. They are boring, truncated, neutered and spayed. And yeah, like was posted above, I too am starting to think maybe this is unfixable. EQ3 anyone? ...sigh
there will never be cool popular items in eq2 like lammy or centi longsword or anything because they tried to make it so everyone had the exact same powered items at the same lvl, so if you have a lvl 50 with a yellow weapon or armor, and another lvl 50 with yellow weapon and armor even if theyre different items theyll be balanced, which is pretty dumb
aye. they took all the complexity of actually evaluating weapon and item strengths and threw it out the window in favor of making everybody exactly the same. -2 stats here +2 here. evens out.
I hate to break it to everyone, but I...cancelled my EQ2 account today. Not because I hate EQ2. I may very well come back to it eventually. I just don't really have time to play two MMORPGs, and WoW is a much easier game for me to play on the schedule that I have.
I was having a ***** of a time meeting new folks in EQ2, and I spent most of my time alone. At least in WoW that doesn't impede my progress.
So, that's where I'll be. Primarilly on the Feathermoon server for now, but I may branch out.
I was having a ***** of a time meeting new folks in EQ2, and I spent most of my time alone. At least in WoW that doesn't impede my progress.
So, that's where I'll be. Primarilly on the Feathermoon server for now, but I may branch out.
See ya Mira - may see ya over there in 2 weeks or whenever wow goes back on sale. You like that server? The alla guys over on wowside have a guild, but it might be pvp... might be hoarde too.
I think their server is PvP. I'm not honestly sure.
Feathermoon is an RP server, but so far I haven't encountered much RP. Otherwise, it's just like a normal PvE server, for the most part. I've got a couple of Alliance and a couple of Horde characters for now.
Feathermoon is an RP server, but so far I haven't encountered much RP. Otherwise, it's just like a normal PvE server, for the most part. I've got a couple of Alliance and a couple of Horde characters for now.
Sounds like fun. I've been soloing a Summoner in EQ2 lately. Grumpy and often can't stay on long enough to be much good to a team. It goes fast cuz I lucked into an adept 1 pet - was asking the zone and a channel if anyone had one - the next night this nice guy sez "got one" and sold it to me for a good price. Very nice of him! I may give RP a try there - it's been ages since I've tried it in eq ... but wasn't very good at it. GL!
Scholar
33 posts
While I agree that we do not as a community in this particular game (EQ2) dont have to take everything lying downs, and this is true for every MMORPG out there. Not isolated to just this game. I said I am sure I missed stuff :)
I think for the most part there are bonuses that set this game apart from EQ1 and from the hype I saw, it really looked more like just the graphics to me. Which I do think they delivered on. Extra heavy mayo even. :P
again all works in progress. We all have to keep sending in our petitions/bugs and whatever else we can to sway alot of the things that are still being developed and need work on.
One thing I think that both companies need to learn to do is to make use of actual poling. I would like to see SOE at the login pole for more requests from the players instead of just making changes due to a minute few. One thing that I hated in EQ1 was that it appeared that SOE was taking pointers and request from a very minute few who think they know best. After all look what happened to Bards in EQ1. Who on earth complained about AE kiting? That is what made the bard a bard. I even deleted my 55 Bard after that was no fun at all.
As far as the respect thing goes, it is so important that we do not turn posts like Wow vs EQ2 into flames on players of either game or the games themselves. As far as hype is concerned both games are definately more than what we have seen in the past, but less of what we would have liked to see, and I hope that they mature into what we hope they can be. :)
-Take care
I think for the most part there are bonuses that set this game apart from EQ1 and from the hype I saw, it really looked more like just the graphics to me. Which I do think they delivered on. Extra heavy mayo even. :P
again all works in progress. We all have to keep sending in our petitions/bugs and whatever else we can to sway alot of the things that are still being developed and need work on.
One thing I think that both companies need to learn to do is to make use of actual poling. I would like to see SOE at the login pole for more requests from the players instead of just making changes due to a minute few. One thing that I hated in EQ1 was that it appeared that SOE was taking pointers and request from a very minute few who think they know best. After all look what happened to Bards in EQ1. Who on earth complained about AE kiting? That is what made the bard a bard. I even deleted my 55 Bard after that was no fun at all.
As far as the respect thing goes, it is so important that we do not turn posts like Wow vs EQ2 into flames on players of either game or the games themselves. As far as hype is concerned both games are definately more than what we have seen in the past, but less of what we would have liked to see, and I hope that they mature into what we hope they can be. :)
-Take care
4 posts
I would like to share my experience with WoW and EQ2 from a customer care perspective:
First of all, I haven't got the opportunity to try WoW yet, I have the retail box seating on my desk since end of November but I live in Europe and as such I am not allowed to connect to US based servers.
Now Blizzard Europe is telling me that I have to download the german beta client (over 2 gigs of data...)and that I will not be able to tag along with my US buddies later on. Told them several times that I do NOT want to play on their localized/german server but they don't care!
SOE customer care might not be perfect but at least they released EQ2 worldwide more or less at the same time and as such I don't feel like a second-hand customer like Blizzard does.
This situation drastically decrease my interest twd. WoW.
First of all, I haven't got the opportunity to try WoW yet, I have the retail box seating on my desk since end of November but I live in Europe and as such I am not allowed to connect to US based servers.
Now Blizzard Europe is telling me that I have to download the german beta client (over 2 gigs of data...)and that I will not be able to tag along with my US buddies later on. Told them several times that I do NOT want to play on their localized/german server but they don't care!
SOE customer care might not be perfect but at least they released EQ2 worldwide more or less at the same time and as such I don't feel like a second-hand customer like Blizzard does.
This situation drastically decrease my interest twd. WoW.
No SOE lets the foreigners play. Although they can NOT get as station pass account so its NOT possible for them to get more than 4 characters. And if they WANT to change their key to US guess what they lose their characters.. So really you cant defend sony very far they ***** the foreigners too.
4 posts
Eight characters slot is irrelevant to me,four characters suits me just fine. it's a minor drawback against not being able to play a game that I purchased over two months ago...
Sorry everyone for my long post. Its just how I feel about EQII. I guess its time to give up on this game and move on.
I was going to post my review on WoW once I had more time with it but I guess not. I'm level 18 now and I am on the Sargeras server. Yes, its a PvP server. Level 18 and not once have I had any sort of PvP encounter yet. I did go to Moonglade for one of my class quests (which is a contested area) but the guards don't allow you to fight in town so no one attacks anyone there.
If anyone is going over to WoW and is willing to join a PvP server, my name is Andrue. If I'm not logged in as Andrue, send me a letter saying Hi and I'll reply when I am logged in. I have so many alts that I am only level 18 right now. Hehe. I joined Sargeras and a PvP server because a lot of my real life friends are there. Besides, there's no penalty for dying so getting ganked in PvP areas is no problem. Well at least to me.
After playing MMORPGs for so long, I can no longer put up with the usual grind. The standard of online RPGs has burned me out. All the new games coming out are going along the same lines of punishing you for every little thing with barely any reward. WoW thinks outside the box. They reward you for everything you do in the game. EQII gets more difficult the higher you level you are and the rewards get smaller. If the rewards justified the time spent, I would have no problem with this. I'm just tired of seeing the carrot get farther away from me and having it become smaller and smaller (in actual size as well). I have been burned out by all the games that do this.
Think outside the box and outside of what you know about MMORPGs. It should not be physically painful to do anything in a game and it shouldn't require you to spend 72 hours awake at your computer to do something. That is unacceptable to me. Its a game! I don't do that for work and they will actually pay me quadruple time or comp days if I ever did that. I'm not going to do it in a game where I am paying.
A lot of players say that WoW is an easy game and its like Candyland... why do you HAVE to be punished in order to feel like you accomplished something? Its a game and not real life. The game should reward you just for being there. This world we live in has taught us that we need to suffer in order to get any reward. I play games to get away from that. I guess we are too conditioned into the "No pain no gain" way of life that getting rewards for little effort is unrewarding.
Well, to each their own. All I know is that I am tired of wasting time in a game looking for fun. I hope that WoW has seriously hurt the MMORPG world in that gamers will no longer stand for "dying = 5 hours of wasted time". We are not sheep. Think outside the box.
I was going to post my review on WoW once I had more time with it but I guess not. I'm level 18 now and I am on the Sargeras server. Yes, its a PvP server. Level 18 and not once have I had any sort of PvP encounter yet. I did go to Moonglade for one of my class quests (which is a contested area) but the guards don't allow you to fight in town so no one attacks anyone there.
If anyone is going over to WoW and is willing to join a PvP server, my name is Andrue. If I'm not logged in as Andrue, send me a letter saying Hi and I'll reply when I am logged in. I have so many alts that I am only level 18 right now. Hehe. I joined Sargeras and a PvP server because a lot of my real life friends are there. Besides, there's no penalty for dying so getting ganked in PvP areas is no problem. Well at least to me.
After playing MMORPGs for so long, I can no longer put up with the usual grind. The standard of online RPGs has burned me out. All the new games coming out are going along the same lines of punishing you for every little thing with barely any reward. WoW thinks outside the box. They reward you for everything you do in the game. EQII gets more difficult the higher you level you are and the rewards get smaller. If the rewards justified the time spent, I would have no problem with this. I'm just tired of seeing the carrot get farther away from me and having it become smaller and smaller (in actual size as well). I have been burned out by all the games that do this.
Think outside the box and outside of what you know about MMORPGs. It should not be physically painful to do anything in a game and it shouldn't require you to spend 72 hours awake at your computer to do something. That is unacceptable to me. Its a game! I don't do that for work and they will actually pay me quadruple time or comp days if I ever did that. I'm not going to do it in a game where I am paying.
A lot of players say that WoW is an easy game and its like Candyland... why do you HAVE to be punished in order to feel like you accomplished something? Its a game and not real life. The game should reward you just for being there. This world we live in has taught us that we need to suffer in order to get any reward. I play games to get away from that. I guess we are too conditioned into the "No pain no gain" way of life that getting rewards for little effort is unrewarding.
Well, to each their own. All I know is that I am tired of wasting time in a game looking for fun. I hope that WoW has seriously hurt the MMORPG world in that gamers will no longer stand for "dying = 5 hours of wasted time". We are not sheep. Think outside the box.
Quote:
This world we live in has taught us that we need to suffer in order to get any reward. I play games to get away from that. I guess we are too conditioned into the "No pain no gain" way of life that getting rewards for little effort is unrewarding.
The funny thing is, I feel exactly the opposite. I feel like we live in a world where everyone expects instant gratification. And if there's any "pain" involved in anything, then it's not worth our time.
But then, I'm old.
not flamin', just sayin'
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