Hi. Early in this thread I talked a lot about how frustrated I was with EQ2 and how I was going over to WOW. Now I'm back.
Sometime last month, I got busy IRL and couldn't log in to WOW. And I didn't miss it, nor did I feel like I really wanted to keep going.
I was playing, but it was the difference between keeping busy, and getting invested in my character(s), and I just cared about keeping busy in WOW. Does that make sense? I'm not even talking about roleplaying, I'm talking more about caring about what happens to them. I really cared in EQ1, and roleplayed, and I did none of that in WOW for whatever reason.
And I just took a look at what's been changed in EQ2 :
* Was 4 character slots : Now 6.
* Offline selling is now available.
* Postal service is now available.
* Solo experience has been improved.
* Mentor system is implemented.
* Additional inventory space in your house.
* XP bonus from rest. My original char is getting double XP after "resting" for three months.
I haven't played most of these features, but they sound great.
The big thing for me was, finally, more than four slots. Six is still too few, but if I really want more I can play on the test server; so I think I'll be good characters on the "real" server and evils on Test. And they've mitigated all the other problems I had.
I still am picking up too much stuff I (probably) have a hard time selling and using....... but there's better options for storing it and getting rid of it. Got a friend? Send them some stuff in the mail. Group up with people? They can mentor you if you get real friendly.
WOW has been canceled for a month, and I'm giving EQ2 another shot. Been a lot of fun for the last two days at least ;) .
Right now I'm agreeing with this:
WOW = Checkers
EQ2 = Chess
And offline I'm a chess player and I hate checkers.
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EQ2 or WoW>> Which is better??Follow
8 posts
I totally agree.
I found that i was never really addicted to playing WoW, it started to get boring, and has little depth.
There were rare changes in it, the enemies were dull and boring and all very similar, there was little variation where people were the same class.
Grouping was near pointless and felt like it was slowing you down.
The checker, chess thing is completely true and is a great statement.
Don't get me wrong, Wow is a great game, and is suited to people with different tastes. Which is better is a matter of opinion, not fact.
I found that i was never really addicted to playing WoW, it started to get boring, and has little depth.
There were rare changes in it, the enemies were dull and boring and all very similar, there was little variation where people were the same class.
Grouping was near pointless and felt like it was slowing you down.
The checker, chess thing is completely true and is a great statement.
Don't get me wrong, Wow is a great game, and is suited to people with different tastes. Which is better is a matter of opinion, not fact.
4 posts
Ive been playing WoW this past month and a half. I have my Rogue up to level 59 and 4 alts between levels 10-25. I got WoW because from the reviews it "seemed" to be the best game out there. "Fun" they called it.
Well it is "fun" for a while but it gets boring quickly.
Case in point, you can literally just stand toe to toe (even with my cloth wearing mage might I add), close your eyes, and mash a single button against an enemy and win 95% of your battles all the way up to level 59. The only time you have to deviate from this pattern is when there are multiple enemies or high level elite mobs. Its silly how easy the game is and unfortunatly it gets old very fast. Every class in WoW is able to solo up to level 60 quickly (level 60 in four weeks is easy to do) and although this is nice as a thought, the problem is they made the players overpowered against the environment in order to do it.
Imagine if you will; If every class can outmatch 95% of the enemies in the game, what happens when you group 5 of them against the same enemies? Even the elites & bosses dont stand a chance against 5 characters.
My personaly feeling about WoW is that I never accomplished anything worthwhile. Here I am at level 59, and I never encountered anything even remotely challenging. I was able to get all the high end gear I wanted either from auction or from tradeskills (another sore point in WoW is too dumbed down tradeskills). I have been on several raids and they just boil down to zerg tactics and let me tell you that WoW is the mother of all zerging games (coming from EQ, AC1&2, and AO) but I suppose that is to be expected from the company that made it famous ;-)
In general, you can rez your fallen raid members faster than the enemy can kill them as long as you have at least 2 people on that single assignment at all times, and since there are little to no penalties for death (save for fixing costs) in WoW you can just do this all day and you will never need any complex tactics to win. Remember the raids we used to have in EQ1 where you had a main tank, a healing rotation, agro control and backup for backups? Remember when a raid needed to maintain discipline and have a certain amount of skill to win high level encounters? This is non-existant in WoW. You just run in, pull whatever you see since nothing poses a threat, and there is really no need for roles or jobs. Puller? Who needs them. Crowd control? Only during a rare blue moon will you actually have time to sheep something before its dead in a raid. Main tank? Is nice to have and makes things easy but you can still win without a tank just using zerg tactics. Healing rotations? Ya right. Agro control? Somewhat useful but if you can just be resed 30 seconds later who cares about it plus by the time you res and start nuking again (instantly after res) you will no longer have to worry about agro.
All that said,
WoW is a good game. It definitly has its place, and I love a lot of things about the game:
-> Short downtimes for 1, is very refreshing. I liked it in AC and I like it in WoW. I hated the downtimes in other games.
-> No penalties for dying is also a big ++ for me although I would assign the 10 minute sickness to player reses in order to limit zerging (also very annoying in pvp).
-> I love how we can solo any time we wanted to with any character. I just wish they made mobs a bit more challenging. Soloable but challenging.
-> Auctions are fun.
-> PvP can be fun if you can actually get a fair fight which is unfortunatly very rare. Most pvp boils down to numbers. He who has more high level characters will win even against 100 lower level people.
Wow flaws include (in order from unbearable to questionable):
-> The WoW community... I have never seen as much immaturity and lack of intellect in any other game to date and I am not picking on just kids nor am I refering only to language. I am talking about game play. Some things you see people doing are just... well it makes you scratch your head and unfortunatly in WoW this applies to the greater majority of the players. Go look at all the crying done on the WoW forums and you will get a glimpse of how bad this is. It is probably the biggest reason why I could never feel immersed in the game.
-> Much to dumbed down for people with above average intelligence. Its fun when you are in the "mood" for it, but it usually passes after an hour.
-> The auction house... I like auctions but I dont like the lack of search functions.
-> Customization... there is very little to none. Everyone looks, and sounds the same. There is very little variation when it comes to your character. Its worse than EQ when it 1st came out and that was what? 5 years ago?
-> Graphics; some people say its a matter of taste. I am not a eye candy type of guy, but I am the type of person who appreciates effort. WoW is poor quality. The poly counts, the textures, the animations are simple and not up to par with todays games.
-> Technical aspects: Blizzard, since the days of Starcraft, has an inherent weakness in multiplayer programming and coming from someone who works at the ATT noc center (network operations) I can tell you that it is 100% incompitence by the part of the programmers and system designers. From server splits (yes they happen even in WoW despite what some people claim), to hacking issues (yes they exist in WoW) Blizzard just cant seem to get their acts together when it comes to network programming.
-> PvP "ganking." Killing of people with low health, low level, or by sheer numbers (5 on 1). Just a time sink and serves no purpose even with an honor system. Similar systems were tried in other games, they always failed because gankers liked being dishonorable thus they didnt care for the system or their rank. I remember in several cases, people were competing to become the lowest ranked person in the game which led to endless grieving. All it takes is one person to be like this to ruin the game unfortunatly.
-> Tradeskills are... whats the word Im looking for? I dont want to say unrewarding because that isnt true, I guess they just feel unrewarding because you can make some incredible items with little effort. Everyone in the game is a master tradeskiller in their respective skill by the time they hit high level. It is nothing special nor commendable.
Edited, Mon Apr 18 15:47:17 2005 by Trinitro
Well it is "fun" for a while but it gets boring quickly.
Case in point, you can literally just stand toe to toe (even with my cloth wearing mage might I add), close your eyes, and mash a single button against an enemy and win 95% of your battles all the way up to level 59. The only time you have to deviate from this pattern is when there are multiple enemies or high level elite mobs. Its silly how easy the game is and unfortunatly it gets old very fast. Every class in WoW is able to solo up to level 60 quickly (level 60 in four weeks is easy to do) and although this is nice as a thought, the problem is they made the players overpowered against the environment in order to do it.
Imagine if you will; If every class can outmatch 95% of the enemies in the game, what happens when you group 5 of them against the same enemies? Even the elites & bosses dont stand a chance against 5 characters.
My personaly feeling about WoW is that I never accomplished anything worthwhile. Here I am at level 59, and I never encountered anything even remotely challenging. I was able to get all the high end gear I wanted either from auction or from tradeskills (another sore point in WoW is too dumbed down tradeskills). I have been on several raids and they just boil down to zerg tactics and let me tell you that WoW is the mother of all zerging games (coming from EQ, AC1&2, and AO) but I suppose that is to be expected from the company that made it famous ;-)
In general, you can rez your fallen raid members faster than the enemy can kill them as long as you have at least 2 people on that single assignment at all times, and since there are little to no penalties for death (save for fixing costs) in WoW you can just do this all day and you will never need any complex tactics to win. Remember the raids we used to have in EQ1 where you had a main tank, a healing rotation, agro control and backup for backups? Remember when a raid needed to maintain discipline and have a certain amount of skill to win high level encounters? This is non-existant in WoW. You just run in, pull whatever you see since nothing poses a threat, and there is really no need for roles or jobs. Puller? Who needs them. Crowd control? Only during a rare blue moon will you actually have time to sheep something before its dead in a raid. Main tank? Is nice to have and makes things easy but you can still win without a tank just using zerg tactics. Healing rotations? Ya right. Agro control? Somewhat useful but if you can just be resed 30 seconds later who cares about it plus by the time you res and start nuking again (instantly after res) you will no longer have to worry about agro.
All that said,
WoW is a good game. It definitly has its place, and I love a lot of things about the game:
-> Short downtimes for 1, is very refreshing. I liked it in AC and I like it in WoW. I hated the downtimes in other games.
-> No penalties for dying is also a big ++ for me although I would assign the 10 minute sickness to player reses in order to limit zerging (also very annoying in pvp).
-> I love how we can solo any time we wanted to with any character. I just wish they made mobs a bit more challenging. Soloable but challenging.
-> Auctions are fun.
-> PvP can be fun if you can actually get a fair fight which is unfortunatly very rare. Most pvp boils down to numbers. He who has more high level characters will win even against 100 lower level people.
Wow flaws include (in order from unbearable to questionable):
-> The WoW community... I have never seen as much immaturity and lack of intellect in any other game to date and I am not picking on just kids nor am I refering only to language. I am talking about game play. Some things you see people doing are just... well it makes you scratch your head and unfortunatly in WoW this applies to the greater majority of the players. Go look at all the crying done on the WoW forums and you will get a glimpse of how bad this is. It is probably the biggest reason why I could never feel immersed in the game.
-> Much to dumbed down for people with above average intelligence. Its fun when you are in the "mood" for it, but it usually passes after an hour.
-> The auction house... I like auctions but I dont like the lack of search functions.
-> Customization... there is very little to none. Everyone looks, and sounds the same. There is very little variation when it comes to your character. Its worse than EQ when it 1st came out and that was what? 5 years ago?
-> Graphics; some people say its a matter of taste. I am not a eye candy type of guy, but I am the type of person who appreciates effort. WoW is poor quality. The poly counts, the textures, the animations are simple and not up to par with todays games.
-> Technical aspects: Blizzard, since the days of Starcraft, has an inherent weakness in multiplayer programming and coming from someone who works at the ATT noc center (network operations) I can tell you that it is 100% incompitence by the part of the programmers and system designers. From server splits (yes they happen even in WoW despite what some people claim), to hacking issues (yes they exist in WoW) Blizzard just cant seem to get their acts together when it comes to network programming.
-> PvP "ganking." Killing of people with low health, low level, or by sheer numbers (5 on 1). Just a time sink and serves no purpose even with an honor system. Similar systems were tried in other games, they always failed because gankers liked being dishonorable thus they didnt care for the system or their rank. I remember in several cases, people were competing to become the lowest ranked person in the game which led to endless grieving. All it takes is one person to be like this to ruin the game unfortunatly.
-> Tradeskills are... whats the word Im looking for? I dont want to say unrewarding because that isnt true, I guess they just feel unrewarding because you can make some incredible items with little effort. Everyone in the game is a master tradeskiller in their respective skill by the time they hit high level. It is nothing special nor commendable.
Edited, Mon Apr 18 15:47:17 2005 by Trinitro
I have to say that the new direction of SOE in EQ2 with that new Exchange Station thing to sell and buy in-game items for real money is simply disgusting.
All the things that happened and all the accounts they banned allegedly because they want to provide a clean gaming environment and bla, bla, bla.....what was all that? IMHO:ENVY!!
They were not allowing it because it was not their business.
Now they are opening the portal to rot and destroy the genre.
This has nothing to do with EQ2 as a game, but the way it is managed. I am sorry about this. Today i am canceling the accounts I have with SOE.
I dont want to flame but this just destroyed the hope I had in this game.It is just a matter of time to implement the system in all servers.
All the things that happened and all the accounts they banned allegedly because they want to provide a clean gaming environment and bla, bla, bla.....what was all that? IMHO:ENVY!!
They were not allowing it because it was not their business.
Now they are opening the portal to rot and destroy the genre.
This has nothing to do with EQ2 as a game, but the way it is managed. I am sorry about this. Today i am canceling the accounts I have with SOE.
I dont want to flame but this just destroyed the hope I had in this game.It is just a matter of time to implement the system in all servers.
Quote:
This has nothing to do with EQ2 as a game, but the way it is managed. I am sorry about this. Today i am canceling the accounts I have with SOE.
I dont want to flame but this just destroyed the hope I had in this game.It is just a matter of time to implement the system in all servers.
I dont want to flame but this just destroyed the hope I had in this game.It is just a matter of time to implement the system in all servers.
I know what you mean, I was planning to head back to EQ II for a bit, check out the changes and such, but after that astonishing 180° turn from SOE, I'm not going to.
"If you can't beat them, join them" is not always a good thing to do :(
Scholar
30 posts
I totally agree.. This game just took a major hit in my eyes. It had potentional but this is just the worst, two-faced move I have ever seen by a company. Even though I have defended this game in the past and like the game for the most part, I would not recommend it for anybody right now considering the uncertainty of the future.
Basically, if SOE wanted to do this they should have done it in beta -- before I spent money on the game so at least I knew what I was getting into and invested all this time into my characters. I do not trust this company at all now.
And its not just the exchange concept, but other factors as well over the last few patches which have completly transformed the content. My account will soon expire and it will remain expired...Too many cool games to play for this. I just can't see myself playing a game that supports cheating and violates its own EULA after some 300,000 plus people have signed off on the agreement. This is truly a sad turn of events for EQ 2, SOE and the many people that thought this game had so much promise.
Edited, Fri Apr 22 08:06:11 2005 by Datheenker
Basically, if SOE wanted to do this they should have done it in beta -- before I spent money on the game so at least I knew what I was getting into and invested all this time into my characters. I do not trust this company at all now.
And its not just the exchange concept, but other factors as well over the last few patches which have completly transformed the content. My account will soon expire and it will remain expired...Too many cool games to play for this. I just can't see myself playing a game that supports cheating and violates its own EULA after some 300,000 plus people have signed off on the agreement. This is truly a sad turn of events for EQ 2, SOE and the many people that thought this game had so much promise.
Edited, Fri Apr 22 08:06:11 2005 by Datheenker
Sorry to you folks who stuck with EQ2. You have been faithful to the game and the company. For such a decision on SOE's part, well... I just don't know what to say.
Be well.
Be well.
Agreed.
I really feel bad for you guys. I knew a lot of good people when I posted here regularly who had high hopes for this game.
And parts of it were good. The bad parts drove me off fast - mostly it was Sony's arrogance. Only four characters per account - jerks. Oh, pay more and you get a tad more slots. BS! I hate the Sony people. I hated them in old EQ, but that game (at the time) offered so much I tolerated them. But... oh they suck so badly - I'll just drop it here.
I moved to WoW, and it's so much fun - I love it. It's not any easier than EQ2 btw. Both Eq2 and WoW have a problem in that there is really very little depth or comlexity to the combat systems (or tactical variety) - compared to say old EQ.
eq2 has an illusion of being harder - but only because you have to grind so much more to make progress. Any one fight in either game is about the same level of challenge - but with slightly more tactical diversity/options in WoW. Yeah, you can kill stuff in WoW pushing one button - but you can go after harder stuff, too - and simply pushing one button won't work there. I HATE grinding these days and love the fact that I can make progress w/out killing 4000 bloody gnolls.
But WoW is at least fun. It moves. Maybe it's good for me cuz I'm now a casual gamer. Hell, I'm not even lvl 40 yet. WoW might dissapoint a power-gamer ("what, I'm already lvl 60? Omg, what now?").
Well, good luck guys. Maybe there will be enough outrage that they'll finally get around to cutting off some heads at SoE and hire some people with at least a tad of respect for the community and customers (yeah, Sony, that's who we are - your paying customers - not your bloody peon peasant slaves - ARG!) Man it boils my blood to come back here and read this. Man, I hate SoE. Good luck, you're going to need it. Back to the WoW forum for me - I need to lower my blood pressure.
I really feel bad for you guys. I knew a lot of good people when I posted here regularly who had high hopes for this game.
And parts of it were good. The bad parts drove me off fast - mostly it was Sony's arrogance. Only four characters per account - jerks. Oh, pay more and you get a tad more slots. BS! I hate the Sony people. I hated them in old EQ, but that game (at the time) offered so much I tolerated them. But... oh they suck so badly - I'll just drop it here.
I moved to WoW, and it's so much fun - I love it. It's not any easier than EQ2 btw. Both Eq2 and WoW have a problem in that there is really very little depth or comlexity to the combat systems (or tactical variety) - compared to say old EQ.
eq2 has an illusion of being harder - but only because you have to grind so much more to make progress. Any one fight in either game is about the same level of challenge - but with slightly more tactical diversity/options in WoW. Yeah, you can kill stuff in WoW pushing one button - but you can go after harder stuff, too - and simply pushing one button won't work there. I HATE grinding these days and love the fact that I can make progress w/out killing 4000 bloody gnolls.
But WoW is at least fun. It moves. Maybe it's good for me cuz I'm now a casual gamer. Hell, I'm not even lvl 40 yet. WoW might dissapoint a power-gamer ("what, I'm already lvl 60? Omg, what now?").
Well, good luck guys. Maybe there will be enough outrage that they'll finally get around to cutting off some heads at SoE and hire some people with at least a tad of respect for the community and customers (yeah, Sony, that's who we are - your paying customers - not your bloody peon peasant slaves - ARG!) Man it boils my blood to come back here and read this. Man, I hate SoE. Good luck, you're going to need it. Back to the WoW forum for me - I need to lower my blood pressure.
Trinitro this statement of yours makes me question all the other things you spoke of and whether you have actually raided in WoW:
"In general, you can rez your fallen raid members faster than the enemy can kill them as long as you have at least 2 people on that single assignment at all times, and since there are little to no penalties for death (save for fixing costs) in WoW you can just do this all day and you will never need any complex tactics to win."
Uh.. no. Only Druids can battle rez. And only once every hour (or hour and a half I forget). Raids are not as you portray them at all, not even close. So again have you actually been on any? I hit 60 with my Shaman and have raided constantly with my guild in all high level dungeons. They are not trivial. Especially Molten Core.
As to the main topic... I like both. I played WoW for months, and am still raiding in it. I just took up EQ2 again because I upgraded my system tohandle the graphic and performance demands. It is fun so far. We'll see how it goes.
"In general, you can rez your fallen raid members faster than the enemy can kill them as long as you have at least 2 people on that single assignment at all times, and since there are little to no penalties for death (save for fixing costs) in WoW you can just do this all day and you will never need any complex tactics to win."
Uh.. no. Only Druids can battle rez. And only once every hour (or hour and a half I forget). Raids are not as you portray them at all, not even close. So again have you actually been on any? I hit 60 with my Shaman and have raided constantly with my guild in all high level dungeons. They are not trivial. Especially Molten Core.
As to the main topic... I like both. I played WoW for months, and am still raiding in it. I just took up EQ2 again because I upgraded my system tohandle the graphic and performance demands. It is fun so far. We'll see how it goes.
Quote:
Only four characters per account - jerks. Oh, pay more and you get a tad more slots. BS! I hate the Sony people.
Are you aware that they now give six characters? (oh, and 10 with station access)
This is still too few in my opinion - but this combined with other changes was enough to bring me back. Selling from the house vault, vitality (double XP if you don't "play too much") and more solo-friendly content.
So just in case you get bored of WOW like I did, fire up EQ2 and take a look.
My character journal
Has it been decided yet? I am waivering on EQ2. I don't want to leave, but it is becoming time consuming and I don't get to play very often. ><
I enjoy the challenge, as I've heard WoW is a bit easy. I really like the crafting, but I've heard again WoW is easy to cap out.
I guess Im asking more should I just give up on MMOs in general if I can't seem to stay interested in EQ2? Or should I give WoW a shot?
Sorry, I don't really expect anyone to answer, but any help would be great. =)
I enjoy the challenge, as I've heard WoW is a bit easy. I really like the crafting, but I've heard again WoW is easy to cap out.
I guess Im asking more should I just give up on MMOs in general if I can't seem to stay interested in EQ2? Or should I give WoW a shot?
Sorry, I don't really expect anyone to answer, but any help would be great. =)
Quote:
Has it been decided yet? I am waivering on EQ2. I don't want to leave, but it is becoming time consuming and I don't get to play very often. ><
Why play a game if you're not having fun? With that said, make sure it's the ENTIRE game you are getting jaded with. There might be other things you can do that will make the game fun again.
Quote:
I enjoy the challenge, as I've heard WoW is a bit easy. I really like the crafting, but I've heard again WoW is easy to cap out.
Crafting takes time. There are no challenges when it comes to crafting as opposed to EQ2's system. Except maybe finding those rare recipe/patterns and such. If you're looking to be sole crafter then you may get disappointed with the system.
I miss the challenges of EQ2's crafting system, even if I did poke myself to death while sewing.
Quote:
I guess Im asking more should I just give up on MMOs in general if I can't seem to stay interested in EQ2? Or should I give WoW a shot?
This is your call. If you are interested in MMORPG's and can spend the 50 or some odd bucks, then go for it. Better yet, if you have a friend or relative that plays WoW, see if they have their Guest Pass that they can give you and lend you their install disks. Then you can try WoW out for 10 days, completely free.
And realize, there are other MMORPG's on the horizon. Vanguard is one that has a lot of promise. Even D&D Online.
Thanks for the response. I am in the process of trying to balance crafting and adventuring, and it is getting better.
I guess it wasn't fair of me to ask if I should quit MMOs or not. lol But thanks for the points about WoW and EQ2 and all.
I guess it wasn't fair of me to ask if I should quit MMOs or not. lol But thanks for the points about WoW and EQ2 and all.
32 posts
As someone who played WoW since it's release date up until a week ago, I can provide some insights since I've played the original EQ, and now EQ2 a little.
Graphics: WoW's graphics are not intended to be good. They are "Warcraft 3 but made bigger". If you like their artistic style then go for it. I wouldn't say the graphics are -bad-, they just aren't very complex. EQ2 on the other hand has pretty complex graphics in alot of ways, and is designed with realism in mind. I find myself able to immerse a bit better in it (the GeForce 6800 GT video card my wife bought me has only made it even prettier).
Gameplay: WoW is: Do quests, most of which are "kill x of creature y" quests. Don't let that fool you - it's just grinding with a goal. If you dislike grinding you will dislike WoW. EQ2 is mostly grinding also, but I've noticed at the low levels I'm at that the quests don't seem so bland. They are still often related to kills, but at least the collected quest items don't take up inventory slots (which they do in WoW, be prepared to have half a backpack full of quest crap).
Speed: WoW is definately faster in terms of progression, which is good and bad. Good because you don't feel stagnant, but bad because you never have time to get used to anything. Even at level 40+, often times by the time you bid on a 24 hour auction at the Auction House, you may have gained a level by the time the auction is over, and there may now be a better item available. It is also VERY easy to outlevel your friends (or vice versa) in WoW. On the other hand, it doesn't take alot of time to play a few classes and get them to 30+. Because of this, you can experience what each class's play style is like without much trouble. The downside is, most of them play pretty much the same anyway. =D I can't say that for sure or not about EQ2 because I'm only level 12 and it's the only class I've played so far.
Equipment visuals: From what I hear, EQ2 is a little bland in different visuals for equipment. WoW has alot of different visuals, but at the same time many of them look...strange. I had a pair of shoulderpads for my warrior that were plate armor, except they were red and literally looked like two big peices of crustecean shell stuck on my shoulders. They were called "Tyrant's Epaulets" or something, and based on the name I would never suspect that they are SUPPOSED to look like lobster shell peices, so I can only guess that's just how they ended up looking.
Tradeskills: Largely a waste of time in WoW. It's impossible to make a profit with them, and in terms of equipment you can usually find or buy better equipment than you'd get with tradeskilling. Because you're limited to two tradeskills, you're better off doing two gathering skills and just selling your stuff for money to upgrade equipment. In EQ2, it seems to me so far that there's a ton of good stuff that you can basically only acquire via tradeskills, including ability upgrades. The tradeskills are complex and compliment eachother, which promotes community among tradeskillers.
Roleplaying: I've yet to find anybody actually roleplaying on Lucan Dlere (my server in EQ2) but in WoW plenty of people roleplayed on the roleplay servers, and held events and such. Nothing crazy, just people enjoying themselves. Unfortunately it was all the same roleplay, though....the Orc whose parents were killed by the Alliance, he hates the Alliance now, etc etc...yeah.
Story: Can't comment on EQ2 yet, but WoW's story is nil. The initial quests on either side have you fighting in a basic story, but generally this story drops off before you're level 20, and your only motivation to go to new zones usually comes from a silly quest ("My cousin lives in blah zone, can you take him this letter?").
Sound: EQ2, hands down. WoW doesn't have voices other than repetitive comments ("For the Horde."). While some might just mute voices in EQ2, the very fact that it HAS that available as an option is a bonus. The music also seems better, more imaginative. WoW's music is repeated in different places, and seems somewhat out of place sometimes.
Long term playability: Also EQ2. WoW's fast leveling system and shortage of quests (they have fewer than EQ2, but they are lengthier) mean that with one character on the Horde, you can do every Horde quest and experience the full content of the game in a month or less. You could do the same with an alliance character, and have spent maybe three months tops between the two of them, if you factor in time spent experimenting with tradeskills. EQ2 at least has enough questing in it that you could get diverse, and the tradeskilling is the same way. Two characters on the same side may not end up doing the same quests, and could have totally different lives tradeskill wise.
Prestige: Being level 60 with 300 in your tradeskills isn't uncommon, it's a very attainable goal in WoW. Whereas in EQ2, I'm going to wager a guess and say it's probably not easy to get to level 50 as either an adventurer or a tradeskiller. To be one, or both, is probably something to be proud of. On one hand, this means people in WoW are likely to have a bigger percentage of the population able to do new late-game content that will inevitably come out. On the other hand, this means it's very likely that hardly any new early-game content will be released for WoW, meaning that pre-60 characters will all go through the same crud 4 years from now as they do today.
PvP: Haven't seen it even as an option in EQ2. Based on recent patches to WoW, the direction of WoW is a very PvP oriented game. If you don't like to do PvP you can still play WoW, but expect to miss out on a good chunk of content (which will grow larger as time goes on), even though you're paying the same monthly rate as everyone else. Not very fair, huh? That's one of the reasons I left - I dislike PvP and didn't like being excluded from some of the game content just because of that. Nowhere on the box when I started the game did it say "PvP required to enjoy all features of this game", so since the game has changed in that direction, my choice of game to spend my time with has also changed.
Really, either game is a good game. Mainly I left because I don't like PvP, and Blizzard has really awful customer service. Granted, I've heard SoE doesn't have stellar service either, but at least they've responded to in-game petitions of mine within an hour or two. On WoW, try 48 hours or more. Ugh.
If any of you do choose to play WoW and you like to roleplay, I recommend Cenarion Circle.
Graphics: WoW's graphics are not intended to be good. They are "Warcraft 3 but made bigger". If you like their artistic style then go for it. I wouldn't say the graphics are -bad-, they just aren't very complex. EQ2 on the other hand has pretty complex graphics in alot of ways, and is designed with realism in mind. I find myself able to immerse a bit better in it (the GeForce 6800 GT video card my wife bought me has only made it even prettier).
Gameplay: WoW is: Do quests, most of which are "kill x of creature y" quests. Don't let that fool you - it's just grinding with a goal. If you dislike grinding you will dislike WoW. EQ2 is mostly grinding also, but I've noticed at the low levels I'm at that the quests don't seem so bland. They are still often related to kills, but at least the collected quest items don't take up inventory slots (which they do in WoW, be prepared to have half a backpack full of quest crap).
Speed: WoW is definately faster in terms of progression, which is good and bad. Good because you don't feel stagnant, but bad because you never have time to get used to anything. Even at level 40+, often times by the time you bid on a 24 hour auction at the Auction House, you may have gained a level by the time the auction is over, and there may now be a better item available. It is also VERY easy to outlevel your friends (or vice versa) in WoW. On the other hand, it doesn't take alot of time to play a few classes and get them to 30+. Because of this, you can experience what each class's play style is like without much trouble. The downside is, most of them play pretty much the same anyway. =D I can't say that for sure or not about EQ2 because I'm only level 12 and it's the only class I've played so far.
Equipment visuals: From what I hear, EQ2 is a little bland in different visuals for equipment. WoW has alot of different visuals, but at the same time many of them look...strange. I had a pair of shoulderpads for my warrior that were plate armor, except they were red and literally looked like two big peices of crustecean shell stuck on my shoulders. They were called "Tyrant's Epaulets" or something, and based on the name I would never suspect that they are SUPPOSED to look like lobster shell peices, so I can only guess that's just how they ended up looking.
Tradeskills: Largely a waste of time in WoW. It's impossible to make a profit with them, and in terms of equipment you can usually find or buy better equipment than you'd get with tradeskilling. Because you're limited to two tradeskills, you're better off doing two gathering skills and just selling your stuff for money to upgrade equipment. In EQ2, it seems to me so far that there's a ton of good stuff that you can basically only acquire via tradeskills, including ability upgrades. The tradeskills are complex and compliment eachother, which promotes community among tradeskillers.
Roleplaying: I've yet to find anybody actually roleplaying on Lucan Dlere (my server in EQ2) but in WoW plenty of people roleplayed on the roleplay servers, and held events and such. Nothing crazy, just people enjoying themselves. Unfortunately it was all the same roleplay, though....the Orc whose parents were killed by the Alliance, he hates the Alliance now, etc etc...yeah.
Story: Can't comment on EQ2 yet, but WoW's story is nil. The initial quests on either side have you fighting in a basic story, but generally this story drops off before you're level 20, and your only motivation to go to new zones usually comes from a silly quest ("My cousin lives in blah zone, can you take him this letter?").
Sound: EQ2, hands down. WoW doesn't have voices other than repetitive comments ("For the Horde."). While some might just mute voices in EQ2, the very fact that it HAS that available as an option is a bonus. The music also seems better, more imaginative. WoW's music is repeated in different places, and seems somewhat out of place sometimes.
Long term playability: Also EQ2. WoW's fast leveling system and shortage of quests (they have fewer than EQ2, but they are lengthier) mean that with one character on the Horde, you can do every Horde quest and experience the full content of the game in a month or less. You could do the same with an alliance character, and have spent maybe three months tops between the two of them, if you factor in time spent experimenting with tradeskills. EQ2 at least has enough questing in it that you could get diverse, and the tradeskilling is the same way. Two characters on the same side may not end up doing the same quests, and could have totally different lives tradeskill wise.
Prestige: Being level 60 with 300 in your tradeskills isn't uncommon, it's a very attainable goal in WoW. Whereas in EQ2, I'm going to wager a guess and say it's probably not easy to get to level 50 as either an adventurer or a tradeskiller. To be one, or both, is probably something to be proud of. On one hand, this means people in WoW are likely to have a bigger percentage of the population able to do new late-game content that will inevitably come out. On the other hand, this means it's very likely that hardly any new early-game content will be released for WoW, meaning that pre-60 characters will all go through the same crud 4 years from now as they do today.
PvP: Haven't seen it even as an option in EQ2. Based on recent patches to WoW, the direction of WoW is a very PvP oriented game. If you don't like to do PvP you can still play WoW, but expect to miss out on a good chunk of content (which will grow larger as time goes on), even though you're paying the same monthly rate as everyone else. Not very fair, huh? That's one of the reasons I left - I dislike PvP and didn't like being excluded from some of the game content just because of that. Nowhere on the box when I started the game did it say "PvP required to enjoy all features of this game", so since the game has changed in that direction, my choice of game to spend my time with has also changed.
Really, either game is a good game. Mainly I left because I don't like PvP, and Blizzard has really awful customer service. Granted, I've heard SoE doesn't have stellar service either, but at least they've responded to in-game petitions of mine within an hour or two. On WoW, try 48 hours or more. Ugh.
If any of you do choose to play WoW and you like to roleplay, I recommend Cenarion Circle.
Poster above.... I'm on Cenarion Circle. I probably know you (it's Razabajin :P ) and the Honor System has ...eh, not done well for CC. Lot of people on our server are not too happy with it. All the d00d0rz and l33tz have crawled out of the wood work and now are farming TM and SS like insanity.
I'm not playing any games right now. Have too much IRL stuff going on. I miss CC a lot :( had such great friends there I'd made. (yeah a lot of the RP was cliche', but ppft, least it was RP ^^ )
I was on Lucan D'Lere when I played EQ2 before. Not a lot of RP going on there unfortunately, least not when I was there.
I may... that's a big IF right now... give EQ2 another go because frankly... *sigh* Blizz has shoved PvP down even the RP'ers throats. I liked PvP the way it was before, and I was a Defender for the Horde quite often, but now it's just madness and not really even worth it. Dunno though, still debating on which account to reopen when I get a chance. Miss my friends on CC, don't miss the Tarren Mill alarm going off and spamming up my chat windows, nor do I look forward to being Honor camped by a bunch of bored level 60's.
YAR!
I miss my Iksar though. REALLY miss them at times :( had such a great story going for them. IF I do go back to EQ2 I'll be IC all the time when I'm in /say just as I was with Razapants, too much fun to give it up.
And yes, if anyone here does decide to try WoW, Cenarion Circle is a GREAT community.
Oh, by the way. If I ever do go back to EQ2 you can look me up sometime :) that goes for anyone. I'll probably be under the name "Rasza" and I'll definately be an Iksar. :D
Edited, Thu Apr 28 19:33:03 2005 by Ivven
I'm not playing any games right now. Have too much IRL stuff going on. I miss CC a lot :( had such great friends there I'd made. (yeah a lot of the RP was cliche', but ppft, least it was RP ^^ )
I was on Lucan D'Lere when I played EQ2 before. Not a lot of RP going on there unfortunately, least not when I was there.
I may... that's a big IF right now... give EQ2 another go because frankly... *sigh* Blizz has shoved PvP down even the RP'ers throats. I liked PvP the way it was before, and I was a Defender for the Horde quite often, but now it's just madness and not really even worth it. Dunno though, still debating on which account to reopen when I get a chance. Miss my friends on CC, don't miss the Tarren Mill alarm going off and spamming up my chat windows, nor do I look forward to being Honor camped by a bunch of bored level 60's.
YAR!
I miss my Iksar though. REALLY miss them at times :( had such a great story going for them. IF I do go back to EQ2 I'll be IC all the time when I'm in /say just as I was with Razapants, too much fun to give it up.
And yes, if anyone here does decide to try WoW, Cenarion Circle is a GREAT community.
Oh, by the way. If I ever do go back to EQ2 you can look me up sometime :) that goes for anyone. I'll probably be under the name "Rasza" and I'll definately be an Iksar. :D
Edited, Thu Apr 28 19:33:03 2005 by Ivven
32 posts
Raza! =D It's me, Rheznar! Haha.
Yeah, I don't exactly have a ton of time to play really...that was part of why I quit WoW, I felt really bad starting up a clan there and then suddenly not having the time to devote to them. I could tolerate that as long as they weren't mean about my absence, which they weren't, but when Blizzard introduced the whole Honor system and whatnot, that was kind of the end of it for me.
I'm liking EQ2 alot, and it seems plenty fun enough to play in my spare time. Lots of relatively short quests, so if I only have an hour to play I can still feel like I'm getting some stuff done!
My experience so far has been that there isn't alot of roleplaying going on either, BUT as you know from Cenarion Circle, roleplaying at random is a bit iffy. I would guess that if it were promoted (by events and such) that people would join in. Probably not everyone on the server, mind you, but not everybody on CC was super-roleplaying either.
If you do choose to play, I'll be around as Rhomus. For the moment I'm good, so I'm in Qeynos, but as soon as I can I'm going evil and moving to Freeport. I think Iksar are evil, so if you play one, feel free to look me up.
Yeah, I don't exactly have a ton of time to play really...that was part of why I quit WoW, I felt really bad starting up a clan there and then suddenly not having the time to devote to them. I could tolerate that as long as they weren't mean about my absence, which they weren't, but when Blizzard introduced the whole Honor system and whatnot, that was kind of the end of it for me.
I'm liking EQ2 alot, and it seems plenty fun enough to play in my spare time. Lots of relatively short quests, so if I only have an hour to play I can still feel like I'm getting some stuff done!
My experience so far has been that there isn't alot of roleplaying going on either, BUT as you know from Cenarion Circle, roleplaying at random is a bit iffy. I would guess that if it were promoted (by events and such) that people would join in. Probably not everyone on the server, mind you, but not everybody on CC was super-roleplaying either.
If you do choose to play, I'll be around as Rhomus. For the moment I'm good, so I'm in Qeynos, but as soon as I can I'm going evil and moving to Freeport. I think Iksar are evil, so if you play one, feel free to look me up.
Hehehe hey !!
I cheated a bit and DL'ed Trial on the Isle today (I have the game but wanted to "test" it again before I decide whether or not to really reactivate my actual account) and started an Iksar mage (yes they're evil). Had fun :) I was talking to some people about the game and how it's changed since I played it back in Feb, and they have said there are some improvements and more on the way.
I might give it a shot. I was at end game in WoW (or pretty close to it anyway) and I'm not sure if revamping my account with the whole Honor System right now is what I really want to do. I think I really *might* go back to EQ2 and try it again, go into it with a different attitude this time, I was fresh from FFXI last time so maybe I was trying to grind too much or something. And let's hope SOE doesn't double bill me this time!!!! <_<
We'll see.
If I do pop back into EQ2 for certain I'll look you up! :D
I cheated a bit and DL'ed Trial on the Isle today (I have the game but wanted to "test" it again before I decide whether or not to really reactivate my actual account) and started an Iksar mage (yes they're evil). Had fun :) I was talking to some people about the game and how it's changed since I played it back in Feb, and they have said there are some improvements and more on the way.
I might give it a shot. I was at end game in WoW (or pretty close to it anyway) and I'm not sure if revamping my account with the whole Honor System right now is what I really want to do. I think I really *might* go back to EQ2 and try it again, go into it with a different attitude this time, I was fresh from FFXI last time so maybe I was trying to grind too much or something. And let's hope SOE doesn't double bill me this time!!!! <_<
We'll see.
If I do pop back into EQ2 for certain I'll look you up! :D
32 posts
I was in the same boat with WoW really, even though Rheznar was only 42. I was at the point of having to grind to get my mount, and most of the quests then were pretty bland, and I knew I didn't really have much to look forward to later in the game. Other than end game instances, but...eh. Considering one doesn't need much strategy to do well in WoW, even if the instances had "difficult" enemies they still would be easy, really.
Basically I decided I wanted a game that was challenging, had some depth and strategy to it, and a setting that was more immersive. Checked out EQ2 and was impressed, so here I am. Some of my friends play EQ2 anyway, so it all works out just fine.
See you there if you decide to play again!
Basically I decided I wanted a game that was challenging, had some depth and strategy to it, and a setting that was more immersive. Checked out EQ2 and was impressed, so here I am. Some of my friends play EQ2 anyway, so it all works out just fine.
See you there if you decide to play again!
"Are you aware that they now give six characters? (oh, and 10 with station access)
This is still too few in my opinion - but this combined with other changes was enough to bring me back. Selling from the house vault, vitality (double XP if you don't "play too much") and more solo-friendly content.
So just in case you get bored of WOW like I did, fire up EQ2 and take a look."
I appreciate the info and the thought, but I can't imagine myself ever coming back to eq2.
I can't get around the beancounter mentality of the people who run the game - limiting slots to force you to buy new accounts - not having an AH or easy-sell system to force you to buy a merchant account (they finally changed this, yes, but I'm never forgiving them) - and now approved selling of game money and gear - no. Just say no.
There is no tactical variety in EQ2. I like soloing better than I like grouping, and every bloody fight was the same in EQ2. I hate the little wheel - whatever it was called (ah, the HO) - a genericized substitution for actual tactics - it just destroys any sense that I'm winning the battle. No, the extra damage "from the gods" is winning the battle - it's just sick.
That and the weirdness of pulling ... there kind of is no pulling - this destroys any sense I had of "immersion" in the fights.
Having played a Barb Fury into the 20s ... the quests stopped pretty much (except for the insane ones - go get 500 pieces of wood for me, then get 500 rocks... and a little path between them - a path! A path! (nee!)). Every fight was just stand there and zap and HO it til it died. Oh, maybe I had to hit the heal button. It was just... so one dimensional and lacking in any sense of ... thinking or doing anything.
Parties were no better. There were almost no tactics except tanks mash the taunt buttons and healers feather in those heals so as not to get agro - and ... well, enough.
I tried a mage/summoner too - found the pet's inability to tank and taunt way too frustrating. Again, every fight was the same. Send the pet and just feather the mob with dot... careful now... zzzzzz... oh time to dot it agagin? Gently... I died if the mob had a sliver of life and I got agro - well I liked fighting tough stuff - but that was ridiculous.
See, they have changed a lot of stuff in eq2 (much of it arguably to copy WoW), and they could even change more. But what they can't change is that they invested way, way, WAY too much of development in the by-committee-graphics (yeah, detailed, but not very stunning - boring actually) and the talking NPCs (I got very tired of them- ended up playing w/ sound shut off) ---- and they put way, way, WAY too little time and effort into content, tactical variety, and (most important of all) SOUL.
EQ2 doesn't have a SOUL in it.
WoW does.
So no matter how much EQ2 tries to patch its holes, it's patching a fundamentally flawed, soulless thing.
Remember how many years it took for old EQ to actually get up and running? It took several expansions for it to really work.
I can't see EQ2 offering me any reason to griiiiiiiiiiind up to higher levels because that grind is so awful and because of the monotony. Their system is so flawed imo that ... I don't see how they could add spells and tactics that would interest and engage me.
And because they are so parsimonious with what the items do. What am I grinding for in EQ2? Maybe there are some uber items now, but there certainly weren't when I quit. There are no spells worth griding for - there is no point like in old eq or in wow where suddenly you "take off and fly" as a caster. In EQ2 as you level you simply get rehashed but sliiightly more powerful versions of your old spells. But there is not one SEXY or uber-cool spell in the game. Not one!
Old EQ had it best in terms of "drooling for that new spell, must have it, stay up late to grind for it) effect. WoW has it okay. Generally at lvls 20, 30 and 40 you get some killer spells (and a mount at 40). Yeah, it's weak after 40, but this they could fix. I hope they do.
As a Warlock, I'm not having as much fun as I did discovering all the tactics an old-eq necro could use. But it's still pretty good. My choice of pets is actually meaningful (they are actually different and good for different situations). I have one that's a good tank. I'm also useful to groups. So overall I'm very pleased with the class - it's still challenging me (see, eq2 has no challenge in it - none, at least for me - it was so gawdawful BORING! Wait, it does have one aspect of challenge - your gaming stamina - can u sit there and grind and grind and grind and GRIND through the monotony? In this respect it does offer a challenge - not one I want - but it does do that).
In spite of its flaws, WoW has life. It has a strong soul. Yeah, a lot of power gamers and whatnot don't even notice it. But WoW is simply much, much, MUCH better crafted from a creative point of view. EQ2 - well, EQ2 reminds me of the old joke, how "a camel is a horse designed by committee". EQ2 has a feeling of "we took 89 surverys of players and decided to satisfy everyone" (and then they did this with the beancounters riding herd on them, big leather bullwhips in hand).
Enough. Man, didn't think I still had that much rage against EQ2 and SoE in me. Man, I hated SoE for tricking us into buying it... man, I still hate them for promising us a very cool game and giving us crap. WoW isn't perfect - but WoW can add modules and improve - and I predict they will. They're taking some lumps over Honor Kills - and after Battlegrounds they'll realize that next they have to go in and amp up PvE - to in some way try to make the PvE side of WoW track like old EQ did - at least in a general way. When they do this, when WoW offers more at the top end of the game, it'll be unchallengable.
This is still too few in my opinion - but this combined with other changes was enough to bring me back. Selling from the house vault, vitality (double XP if you don't "play too much") and more solo-friendly content.
So just in case you get bored of WOW like I did, fire up EQ2 and take a look."
I appreciate the info and the thought, but I can't imagine myself ever coming back to eq2.
I can't get around the beancounter mentality of the people who run the game - limiting slots to force you to buy new accounts - not having an AH or easy-sell system to force you to buy a merchant account (they finally changed this, yes, but I'm never forgiving them) - and now approved selling of game money and gear - no. Just say no.
There is no tactical variety in EQ2. I like soloing better than I like grouping, and every bloody fight was the same in EQ2. I hate the little wheel - whatever it was called (ah, the HO) - a genericized substitution for actual tactics - it just destroys any sense that I'm winning the battle. No, the extra damage "from the gods" is winning the battle - it's just sick.
That and the weirdness of pulling ... there kind of is no pulling - this destroys any sense I had of "immersion" in the fights.
Having played a Barb Fury into the 20s ... the quests stopped pretty much (except for the insane ones - go get 500 pieces of wood for me, then get 500 rocks... and a little path between them - a path! A path! (nee!)). Every fight was just stand there and zap and HO it til it died. Oh, maybe I had to hit the heal button. It was just... so one dimensional and lacking in any sense of ... thinking or doing anything.
Parties were no better. There were almost no tactics except tanks mash the taunt buttons and healers feather in those heals so as not to get agro - and ... well, enough.
I tried a mage/summoner too - found the pet's inability to tank and taunt way too frustrating. Again, every fight was the same. Send the pet and just feather the mob with dot... careful now... zzzzzz... oh time to dot it agagin? Gently... I died if the mob had a sliver of life and I got agro - well I liked fighting tough stuff - but that was ridiculous.
See, they have changed a lot of stuff in eq2 (much of it arguably to copy WoW), and they could even change more. But what they can't change is that they invested way, way, WAY too much of development in the by-committee-graphics (yeah, detailed, but not very stunning - boring actually) and the talking NPCs (I got very tired of them- ended up playing w/ sound shut off) ---- and they put way, way, WAY too little time and effort into content, tactical variety, and (most important of all) SOUL.
EQ2 doesn't have a SOUL in it.
WoW does.
So no matter how much EQ2 tries to patch its holes, it's patching a fundamentally flawed, soulless thing.
Remember how many years it took for old EQ to actually get up and running? It took several expansions for it to really work.
I can't see EQ2 offering me any reason to griiiiiiiiiiind up to higher levels because that grind is so awful and because of the monotony. Their system is so flawed imo that ... I don't see how they could add spells and tactics that would interest and engage me.
And because they are so parsimonious with what the items do. What am I grinding for in EQ2? Maybe there are some uber items now, but there certainly weren't when I quit. There are no spells worth griding for - there is no point like in old eq or in wow where suddenly you "take off and fly" as a caster. In EQ2 as you level you simply get rehashed but sliiightly more powerful versions of your old spells. But there is not one SEXY or uber-cool spell in the game. Not one!
Old EQ had it best in terms of "drooling for that new spell, must have it, stay up late to grind for it) effect. WoW has it okay. Generally at lvls 20, 30 and 40 you get some killer spells (and a mount at 40). Yeah, it's weak after 40, but this they could fix. I hope they do.
As a Warlock, I'm not having as much fun as I did discovering all the tactics an old-eq necro could use. But it's still pretty good. My choice of pets is actually meaningful (they are actually different and good for different situations). I have one that's a good tank. I'm also useful to groups. So overall I'm very pleased with the class - it's still challenging me (see, eq2 has no challenge in it - none, at least for me - it was so gawdawful BORING! Wait, it does have one aspect of challenge - your gaming stamina - can u sit there and grind and grind and grind and GRIND through the monotony? In this respect it does offer a challenge - not one I want - but it does do that).
In spite of its flaws, WoW has life. It has a strong soul. Yeah, a lot of power gamers and whatnot don't even notice it. But WoW is simply much, much, MUCH better crafted from a creative point of view. EQ2 - well, EQ2 reminds me of the old joke, how "a camel is a horse designed by committee". EQ2 has a feeling of "we took 89 surverys of players and decided to satisfy everyone" (and then they did this with the beancounters riding herd on them, big leather bullwhips in hand).
Enough. Man, didn't think I still had that much rage against EQ2 and SoE in me. Man, I hated SoE for tricking us into buying it... man, I still hate them for promising us a very cool game and giving us crap. WoW isn't perfect - but WoW can add modules and improve - and I predict they will. They're taking some lumps over Honor Kills - and after Battlegrounds they'll realize that next they have to go in and amp up PvE - to in some way try to make the PvE side of WoW track like old EQ did - at least in a general way. When they do this, when WoW offers more at the top end of the game, it'll be unchallengable.
Danger - long post ahead.
Whoa man, put that keyboard down and take a cold shower. In that case, never mind. Stick with WOW.
As I remembered it you were a person/persons who enjoyed the game quite a bit and wanted to leave for many problems both niggling and major. I was wrong.
Now on points here though, I'll respond.
I don't like that part one bit either - but I got past it. I see an awesome game that will change as time goes by, won't disappear in the next 3 weeks like many computer games do, and that kind of stuff makes me get past the nasty marketing ploys.
I don't have to give in. I don't have to buy another account, and I haven't, and what I see instead is they are making enough changes to keep you from *having* to buy additional accounts in order to enjoy the game. What fun is it to make the game, become *work*, nothing but grinding various parts of the game? I see that aspect being addressed, at any rate.
Well tactics which work for any particular mob get repeated by me. Maybe I'll get lucky or unlucky the next time I try it so I can handle that, plus the necessity to monitor if your plan is working or not, and if not adjust. Reminds me of EQ1 actually.
But how can you complain about immersion and pulling? Pulling always has been an artificial "computer-ish" tactic, and I'm glad to see it lessened, or even gone. "Wow, they're killing Bob over there - but he's outside my patrol zone so I'm not going to react at all, I'll just stand here and have another cigarette". No, EQ2's system is better. Not perfect yet - but better.
I think they HAVE indeed copied the best stuff out of World of Warcraft. Sony got their asses handed to them on creating better tools for MMORPGS by Blizzard. I give them credit for turning things in a different direction and realizing they had big problems. Here I think they've done great.
Now soul - SOUL - that's what only EQ2 has my friend.
WOW is a cartoony fun pasttime, but does not let me get into my character's skull and pretend that I'm him. My hunter was always..... a toon. So was my paladin and my shaman. They were computer creations I controlled for my amusement.
But my summoner is presently a scared Iksar scratching the dirt for some food to eat, trying to prove himself to Qeynos, kicked out of Freeport for daring to defy the Overlord, and determined to do his part to bring the Iksar out of squalor and back to their former glory. He's convinced the Qeynosian way is better; not perfect, but better - and wants his fellow lizzies to join him.
My shaman is a determined soloer who likes to harvest items. He either turns them into scholarly goods or sells them and accumulates wealth. He's a picky Kerran who's fussy in all things, and as a Mystic, is in touch with the good spirits and destroys the undead whenever he can.
That's the difference; not so much in game behavior as what I'm thinking when playing.
To be honest, I don't even know what spells or items I'll get as I level up (My chars are at 15 and 20 now). I don't care. I'm knocking out quests and experiencing the world. I'm enjoying the journey. I played EQ1 for 2 years, after it had already been dissected, and this has much of the same world and fun but much more mystery involved.
Maybe you're an item chaser. I'm more of a stats chaser. I'm completing quest after quest after quest, and enjoying the challenge of getting that damned shattered Dwarf and Orc bone; of becoming tough enough to mine in the Thundering Steppes (Danger! ). Of gaining prestige for my workshop and wholesaler - you get the idea. So I guess I can see your point, but I'd just look elsewhere rather than items or spells.
Coming from a place with such a long history in the business as EQ has, I think this was inevitable. You're spot on with this point; but the trick is, it works. A camel gets you where you want to go, in fact; if perhaps in a clunky fashion. And EQ2 succeeds in giving me entertainment, as a soloer and alt-player and mercenary businessman.
Anyway - enjoy WOW. We both quit largely because of too few characters; but I changed my perspective and they begrudgingly game me more slots. So I'm back. If you're that pissed at them still, the only sensible thing to do is to stay away.
My character journal
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Enough. Man, didn't think I still had that much rage against EQ2 and SoE in me. Man, I hated SoE for tricking us into buying it...
Whoa man, put that keyboard down and take a cold shower. In that case, never mind. Stick with WOW.
As I remembered it you were a person/persons who enjoyed the game quite a bit and wanted to leave for many problems both niggling and major. I was wrong.
Now on points here though, I'll respond.
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I can't get around the beancounter mentality of the people who run the game
I don't like that part one bit either - but I got past it. I see an awesome game that will change as time goes by, won't disappear in the next 3 weeks like many computer games do, and that kind of stuff makes me get past the nasty marketing ploys.
I don't have to give in. I don't have to buy another account, and I haven't, and what I see instead is they are making enough changes to keep you from *having* to buy additional accounts in order to enjoy the game. What fun is it to make the game, become *work*, nothing but grinding various parts of the game? I see that aspect being addressed, at any rate.
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There is no tactical variety in EQ2.
That and the weirdness of pulling ... there kind of is no pulling
That and the weirdness of pulling ... there kind of is no pulling
Well tactics which work for any particular mob get repeated by me. Maybe I'll get lucky or unlucky the next time I try it so I can handle that, plus the necessity to monitor if your plan is working or not, and if not adjust. Reminds me of EQ1 actually.
But how can you complain about immersion and pulling? Pulling always has been an artificial "computer-ish" tactic, and I'm glad to see it lessened, or even gone. "Wow, they're killing Bob over there - but he's outside my patrol zone so I'm not going to react at all, I'll just stand here and have another cigarette". No, EQ2's system is better. Not perfect yet - but better.
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See, they have changed a lot of stuff in eq2 (much of it arguably to copy WoW), and they could even change more. But what they can't change is that they invested way, way, WAY too much of development in the by-committee-graphics (yeah, detailed, but not very stunning - boring actually) and the talking NPCs (I got very tired of them- ended up playing w/ sound shut off) ---- and they put way, way, WAY too little time and effort into content, tactical variety, and (most important of all) SOUL.
EQ2 doesn't have a SOUL in it.
WoW does.
EQ2 doesn't have a SOUL in it.
WoW does.
I think they HAVE indeed copied the best stuff out of World of Warcraft. Sony got their asses handed to them on creating better tools for MMORPGS by Blizzard. I give them credit for turning things in a different direction and realizing they had big problems. Here I think they've done great.
Now soul - SOUL - that's what only EQ2 has my friend.
WOW is a cartoony fun pasttime, but does not let me get into my character's skull and pretend that I'm him. My hunter was always..... a toon. So was my paladin and my shaman. They were computer creations I controlled for my amusement.
But my summoner is presently a scared Iksar scratching the dirt for some food to eat, trying to prove himself to Qeynos, kicked out of Freeport for daring to defy the Overlord, and determined to do his part to bring the Iksar out of squalor and back to their former glory. He's convinced the Qeynosian way is better; not perfect, but better - and wants his fellow lizzies to join him.
My shaman is a determined soloer who likes to harvest items. He either turns them into scholarly goods or sells them and accumulates wealth. He's a picky Kerran who's fussy in all things, and as a Mystic, is in touch with the good spirits and destroys the undead whenever he can.
That's the difference; not so much in game behavior as what I'm thinking when playing.
Quote:
What am I grinding for in EQ2? Maybe there are some uber items now, but there certainly weren't when I quit.
Maybe you're an item chaser. I'm more of a stats chaser. I'm completing quest after quest after quest, and enjoying the challenge of getting that damned shattered Dwarf and Orc bone; of becoming tough enough to mine in the Thundering Steppes (Danger! ). Of gaining prestige for my workshop and wholesaler - you get the idea. So I guess I can see your point, but I'd just look elsewhere rather than items or spells.
Quote:
EQ2 - well, EQ2 reminds me of the old joke, how "a camel is a horse designed by committee". EQ2 has a feeling of "we took 89 surverys of players and decided to satisfy everyone" (and then they did this with the beancounters riding herd on them, big leather bullwhips in hand).
Coming from a place with such a long history in the business as EQ has, I think this was inevitable. You're spot on with this point; but the trick is, it works. A camel gets you where you want to go, in fact; if perhaps in a clunky fashion. And EQ2 succeeds in giving me entertainment, as a soloer and alt-player and mercenary businessman.
Anyway - enjoy WOW. We both quit largely because of too few characters; but I changed my perspective and they begrudgingly game me more slots. So I'm back. If you're that pissed at them still, the only sensible thing to do is to stay away.
My character journal
Well above poster, honestly I have to say though my Iksars have had a "deeper" story somewhat, my Troll Hunter Razabajin was a BLAST to RP.
Yes, he was a toon...and so....I RP'ed him like a hyper, crazed cartoon character. He did have some depth, actually he was a complex character, but I focused on zaniness of his antics and had fun.
My Iksar I've played were diverse. I had a few bad ones (Setiss and Sijjvra mostly) but Izavahss was a goof who ran off to Qeynos. Though he did have some complexity, unfortunately I never found enough RP going on game-wise to develop him as much as I did Razabajin, despite the fact there was more "material" to work with as an Iksar.
I've made Rasza... yep, that name is from Razabajin just because... it's a good name ^^ and I, like some people, sometimes carry old RP names over to new games. And he'll be goofy, not like Raza but he'll not be a dark and brooding Iksar like Sijjvra, nor a cold, arrogant Inquisitor like Setiss. He won't be quite as noble or want to run to Qeynos like Izzy.
So...I'm rambling. EQ2 still has some issues. It's still brown. But after the Honor Crap system came out *sighs hugely and looks sad* I'll go back to my Iksarlings and dig around for some RP and take my time instead of trying to rush through levels, and we'll see how it goes. So far, so good.
Yes, he was a toon...and so....I RP'ed him like a hyper, crazed cartoon character. He did have some depth, actually he was a complex character, but I focused on zaniness of his antics and had fun.
My Iksar I've played were diverse. I had a few bad ones (Setiss and Sijjvra mostly) but Izavahss was a goof who ran off to Qeynos. Though he did have some complexity, unfortunately I never found enough RP going on game-wise to develop him as much as I did Razabajin, despite the fact there was more "material" to work with as an Iksar.
I've made Rasza... yep, that name is from Razabajin just because... it's a good name ^^ and I, like some people, sometimes carry old RP names over to new games. And he'll be goofy, not like Raza but he'll not be a dark and brooding Iksar like Sijjvra, nor a cold, arrogant Inquisitor like Setiss. He won't be quite as noble or want to run to Qeynos like Izzy.
So...I'm rambling. EQ2 still has some issues. It's still brown. But after the Honor Crap system came out *sighs hugely and looks sad* I'll go back to my Iksarlings and dig around for some RP and take my time instead of trying to rush through levels, and we'll see how it goes. So far, so good.
Just going to comment on the following EvilGnomes's rant
I tried a mage/summoner too - found the pet's inability to tank and taunt way too frustrating. Again, every fight was the same. Send the pet and just feather the mob with dot... careful now... zzzzzz... oh time to dot it agagin? Gently... I died if the mob had a sliver of life and I got agro - well I liked fighting tough stuff - but that was ridiculous.
This is not true. 1 vs 1 or 2(any mobs not double arrow up) with summoner it is cake. 1 vs 3 ( blue cons not double arrow up), hard to keep mobs on pet. 1 vs 1 double arrow up (blue con and below) need to pay attention to the fight. Summoner pet CAN tank quite well. Get apprentice 4 or adept 1 pet, your pet will have no problem tanking until 20. At 20 you get a very strong meatshield pet and a warlock pet that provide a very nice group buff. One is for soloing while the other is more suited for grouping. Summoner is one of the most complex class to play. You will die a lot learning the class. Have you ever melee the mob while your pet is tanking? Unlike eq1, mob won't turn around unless you out-dps your pet...:) If all you do is just send pet in and dot it, you still has a lot to learn about summoner. Sometimes, especially double arrow up caster(has a habit of chain nuking until powerless), I end up tanking due to healing agro (When that happens, mobs usually has no power left). Yet I can take the hit for at least 20 seconds (99% of the time, mob dies before me). That is at level 23 (necromancer), so cannot comment on higher level up. Also summoner has a stun spell for buying some time for pet to get agro back (works 99% of the time). Currently living in Fallen Gate (what used to be Neriak). Soloed the Fallen Gate access quest. Has 6 quests running that need items from that zone. The toughest zone to solo for me so far, almost all are double arrow up. Have to pick my target carefully. Nice xp and nice loot to boot. Almost all mobs in there are tied to a quest.
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I tried a mage/summoner too - found the pet's inability to tank and taunt way too frustrating. Again, every fight was the same. Send the pet and just feather the mob with dot... careful now... zzzzzz... oh time to dot it agagin? Gently... I died if the mob had a sliver of life and I got agro - well I liked fighting tough stuff - but that was ridiculous.
This is not true. 1 vs 1 or 2(any mobs not double arrow up) with summoner it is cake. 1 vs 3 ( blue cons not double arrow up), hard to keep mobs on pet. 1 vs 1 double arrow up (blue con and below) need to pay attention to the fight. Summoner pet CAN tank quite well. Get apprentice 4 or adept 1 pet, your pet will have no problem tanking until 20. At 20 you get a very strong meatshield pet and a warlock pet that provide a very nice group buff. One is for soloing while the other is more suited for grouping. Summoner is one of the most complex class to play. You will die a lot learning the class. Have you ever melee the mob while your pet is tanking? Unlike eq1, mob won't turn around unless you out-dps your pet...:) If all you do is just send pet in and dot it, you still has a lot to learn about summoner. Sometimes, especially double arrow up caster(has a habit of chain nuking until powerless), I end up tanking due to healing agro (When that happens, mobs usually has no power left). Yet I can take the hit for at least 20 seconds (99% of the time, mob dies before me). That is at level 23 (necromancer), so cannot comment on higher level up. Also summoner has a stun spell for buying some time for pet to get agro back (works 99% of the time). Currently living in Fallen Gate (what used to be Neriak). Soloed the Fallen Gate access quest. Has 6 quests running that need items from that zone. The toughest zone to solo for me so far, almost all are double arrow up. Have to pick my target carefully. Nice xp and nice loot to boot. Almost all mobs in there are tied to a quest.
32 posts
As a summoner (soon to be necromancer) I can tell you with certainty that I have had none of the issues described above.
In fact, I am currently getting loads of experience during my Betrayal quest, trying to kill 500 Orcs. I am fighting the ones outside Freeport, level 12-14 range. I'm currently 16, but started this when I was 14. As it is right now, I am taking on packs of 3-4 orcs at a time, and I'll end the fight with maybe 25% health lost (if even that) and my pet typically has no significant damage to speak of.
With Agitation up, he regenerates, and does more damage. The only negative thing is that depending on the fight I may chew through 25%-50% of my mana, but that's no big deal. I can use the spell that hurts my pet to replenish my power, and while that's active for a short time I'm also replenishing from food/drink, so in just a few seconds I'm ready to go again.
Granted, I'm fighting weaker enemies, but I figure if I can chain-fight weak enemies with little to no downtime, isn't that better experience than fighting tough enemies but needing to rest after each one? Of course if I was fighting one 12-14 orc at a time it'd be a drag, but 3-4 of them in one fight is alot of fun.
I have 100 more to kill tonight, which should bring me to level 17. And then I'm alllmost done becoming a citizen of Freeport. Yay!
In fact, I am currently getting loads of experience during my Betrayal quest, trying to kill 500 Orcs. I am fighting the ones outside Freeport, level 12-14 range. I'm currently 16, but started this when I was 14. As it is right now, I am taking on packs of 3-4 orcs at a time, and I'll end the fight with maybe 25% health lost (if even that) and my pet typically has no significant damage to speak of.
With Agitation up, he regenerates, and does more damage. The only negative thing is that depending on the fight I may chew through 25%-50% of my mana, but that's no big deal. I can use the spell that hurts my pet to replenish my power, and while that's active for a short time I'm also replenishing from food/drink, so in just a few seconds I'm ready to go again.
Granted, I'm fighting weaker enemies, but I figure if I can chain-fight weak enemies with little to no downtime, isn't that better experience than fighting tough enemies but needing to rest after each one? Of course if I was fighting one 12-14 orc at a time it'd be a drag, but 3-4 of them in one fight is alot of fun.
I have 100 more to kill tonight, which should bring me to level 17. And then I'm alllmost done becoming a citizen of Freeport. Yay!
2 posts
Hello fellow gamers,
I will confess that up until about a year ago, I was a PS2 & Xbox player only, (of course I still had time for my orginal nintendo which I still have that works about 80% of the time). When EQOA and FF for PS2 wasnt cutting it anymore and the 5 hours it took me to run through Fable for Xbox was up I new it was time for an upgrade.
EQ2 was my first MMO and I was immediately addicted. Being primarily a PS2 player I was used to the games that focused on solo-ing. EQ2 is a great game but your talking about at least a 6 month investment of your time, and money before you can really get into the meat of the game. Don't get me wrong, I think EQ2 is a great game despite its flaws but when I first logged onto WOW there was no turning back.
WOW in my opinion is the best game going. Shadowbane was ruined and DOC is a good game but not great for me. I enjoy being able to log on for an hour and getting almost half a level of Exp at even at lvl 30 solo-ing. I currently have a lvl 50 War in Wow and have done so in just under 2 months. I enjoy being able to kill mobs and put drops on auction while still being able to lvl. I enjoy the way the graphics are more animated or Cartoon if you will. If I wanted real life graphics I would have joined the army. Again, not bashing EQ2 but I strongly recommend if you can get your hands on a copy of Wow, try it for a week and see if you want to call out of work. The PvP aspect is awsome and creates almost a whole new side game that EQ2 doesnt really offer (at least to the extent of Wow, being that they have rolled out a new system which keeps rankings for PVP in a fair manner which can help you get your hands on some really nice weaps and items). Wow is a great game and I find it to be very Fun. The grind of trying to build a great char can be done in a realistic time frame and you dont need a guild of 100 members to do it. (although a guy I work with got me in a great guild who has proven to be very helpful)
Maybe someday I will re-open my EQ account but right now, there is no looking back, good bye frogloks hello giant cowmen with 6 foot swords riding rhino's!
I will confess that up until about a year ago, I was a PS2 & Xbox player only, (of course I still had time for my orginal nintendo which I still have that works about 80% of the time). When EQOA and FF for PS2 wasnt cutting it anymore and the 5 hours it took me to run through Fable for Xbox was up I new it was time for an upgrade.
EQ2 was my first MMO and I was immediately addicted. Being primarily a PS2 player I was used to the games that focused on solo-ing. EQ2 is a great game but your talking about at least a 6 month investment of your time, and money before you can really get into the meat of the game. Don't get me wrong, I think EQ2 is a great game despite its flaws but when I first logged onto WOW there was no turning back.
WOW in my opinion is the best game going. Shadowbane was ruined and DOC is a good game but not great for me. I enjoy being able to log on for an hour and getting almost half a level of Exp at even at lvl 30 solo-ing. I currently have a lvl 50 War in Wow and have done so in just under 2 months. I enjoy being able to kill mobs and put drops on auction while still being able to lvl. I enjoy the way the graphics are more animated or Cartoon if you will. If I wanted real life graphics I would have joined the army. Again, not bashing EQ2 but I strongly recommend if you can get your hands on a copy of Wow, try it for a week and see if you want to call out of work. The PvP aspect is awsome and creates almost a whole new side game that EQ2 doesnt really offer (at least to the extent of Wow, being that they have rolled out a new system which keeps rankings for PVP in a fair manner which can help you get your hands on some really nice weaps and items). Wow is a great game and I find it to be very Fun. The grind of trying to build a great char can be done in a realistic time frame and you dont need a guild of 100 members to do it. (although a guy I work with got me in a great guild who has proven to be very helpful)
Maybe someday I will re-open my EQ account but right now, there is no looking back, good bye frogloks hello giant cowmen with 6 foot swords riding rhino's!
Honor System 4tl
Getting new items by "fair" PvP?
Only if you're on the Alliance side and zerg raiding a Horde town Defending by 2 or 3 Hordies that are probably 20 levels below your own. Afterwards the corpse camping until they raise unflagged *heh, unless you're on a PvP server* and NPC camping = not 4tw.
At least not on an RP server.
I do think WoW is a fun game, but Honor Crap system kind of ruined it for so many people.
Getting new items by "fair" PvP?
Only if you're on the Alliance side and zerg raiding a Horde town Defending by 2 or 3 Hordies that are probably 20 levels below your own. Afterwards the corpse camping until they raise unflagged *heh, unless you're on a PvP server* and NPC camping = not 4tw.
At least not on an RP server.
I do think WoW is a fun game, but Honor Crap system kind of ruined it for so many people.
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