From my experience of EQ1 Warriors they only switched to 2H weapons when riposte was a serious problem. I've healed some very good ones at the top level and they used 2 x 1H.
So if that requires Steel Warrior to be wrong I'll go with that. Actually reading that thread it's just a list of aggro weapons - in no particular order. Just because it lists 2H first even the author of the thread said they were not ordered in any way. Most of the posters are even talking of the 1H weapons they are using. Why you think it justifies your comment about 2H aggro I have no idea - or was it just thrown in on the basis that a link is seldom read and using Steel Warrior to back up your unsupported opinion sounds good?
However that was at the top end of EQ1 and we're talking about the bottom end of EQ2 - Level 20!
In EQ1 you would not have found a level 20 warrior using anything but dual-wield because they had very little else to help maintain aggro.
EQ2 is very different. From a very early stage warrior types get aggro abilities that are way better than EQ1. The weapon isn't so important any more in aggro retention.
For what it's worth I've banked the halberd and gone back to shield and a nice axe. I can't find dual-wield weapons that make up for the combined loss of damage and defense.
It probably depends a lot on your regular grouping. If you are going to be soloing a lot then the extra defense is a must. If you group a lot then the kind of healer you group with will affect things. If they are using wards then you can go for offense perhaps more than if they are straight healing.
One of the differences between 1H and 2H weapons in EQ was the speed of the weapon with 1H typically being much faster. The argument about more damage less often is ignoring the aggro issue. In EQ - and we don't know how this translates to EQ2 but we can assume a similar line of thought from the designers - it was both frequency of hit and the amount of damage done that created aggro.
In EQ there was much made of weapon "procs" - magical effects that could randomly fire when the weapon was swung. Many of these could be used to increase aggro. And they were the only reason the 2H weapons on that link were high aggro. The more frequently they were swung the bigger the chance of aggro. I have yet to meet a proccing weapon in EQ2 except via weapon buffs like poison or the "Claws" racial trait offered to Kerra. So let's dismiss procs for the moment since they don't seem to be around at level 20 much and if they are buffs then they would apply to either weapon.
There are two issues of aggro in a fight.
One is the people who pull it off you by healing or nuking. There they may need help (or a rez) and you can taunt etc to pull it back.
The other is other melee who are generating more aggro than you. There you may have to talk to them about switching to slower weapons or announcing major attacks so you are ready to taunt. Also they may not have found a use yet for their aggro-loosing abilities and you can help them find it. In this situation a dual-wielding warrior will be challenged less since they are hitting just as fast as the scout class rather than letting the scout get in two or three hits for there one.
So I'd agree with the OP's rant. The Halberd isn't that great. If it's any consolation the other classes don't get much better. My shaman got a one-handed spear that animates like he thinks it's a fly-swatter and clerics get a lump of wood that looks suspiciouly like the one Captain Varlos gave them back on the Far Journey.
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Cobra101 wrote:
From my experience of EQ1 Warriors they only switched to 2H weapons when riposte was a serious problem. I've healed some very good ones at the top level and they used 2 x 1H.
So if that requires Steel Warrior to be wrong I'll go with that. Actually reading that thread it's just a list of aggro weapons - in no particular order. Just because it lists 2H first even the author of the thread said they were not ordered in any way.
So if that requires Steel Warrior to be wrong I'll go with that. Actually reading that thread it's just a list of aggro weapons - in no particular order. Just because it lists 2H first even the author of the thread said they were not ordered in any way.
You need to read the entire thread to get a feel for the community's opinion. And even then, that thread is merely an example.
I did read the whole thread.
The point is moot however. The reason those 2H weapons create aggro is their procs. We have yet to see - certainly at level 20 - aggro proccing weapons in EQ2.
In EQ1 a non-proccing 2H weapon was the ideal choice to avoid getting aggro. I used to switch to one with my ranger when aggro grabbing was a problem.
The point is moot however. The reason those 2H weapons create aggro is their procs. We have yet to see - certainly at level 20 - aggro proccing weapons in EQ2.
In EQ1 a non-proccing 2H weapon was the ideal choice to avoid getting aggro. I used to switch to one with my ranger when aggro grabbing was a problem.
Wherever I go - there I am.
Scholar
31 posts
So this thread has basically turned into a 1h vs 2h vs shield discussion, for both EQ1 and EQ2. Let me put in my 2 cents.
EQ1. A raiding warrior bagged a nice damage/delay 2h with aggro proc for sure. BoW was the ultimate for this. When the mobs are hitting for 3k+ you have to minimize the riposte. I parsed many, many fights with our guild, and a warrior yeilding a 2h vs duel wield most definately took less damage (they did put out a new AA to reduce/eliminate offhand riposte, which made duel wielding viable again)
For exp grouping, duel wield was ok. You might still notice a difference in the amount of damage they took, but it was slight and able to be overcome usually.
Aggro. 2h vs 1h/sheild vs duel wield. Makes no difference it's all about dps. Whichever combination of weapons will produce the most dps will produce the most raw aggro. Aggro procs could be found on all types of weapons not to mention the anger 3 augs so that is somewhat of a non-issue depending on the weapons available to you.
Now, on to EQ2.
I have noticed very little riposte damage from mobs (not sure I've ever seen any at all really, but it scrolls by so fast I haven't really payed that much attention). So, I would say whatever weapon fits the situation is the best to use. *edit* Also, aggro is generated more from skills than dps in this game, so aggro really isn't much of an issue. The guardians that someone said are using 2h and can't hold aggro simply don't know what they are doing. I do way more damage and generate way more hate by using my skills than my raw dps from my weapons.
Any guardian at 20-25+ should have a bag of weapons. One hand-shield combo, duel wield combo, and 2h. Duel wielding and 2h is going to be compareable dps at this stage of the game. 1h/shield is best for the hard hitting ^^ orange con your trying to kill. A good guardian will change his weapons based on what he's fighting.
As for the Qeynos guardians getting a 2h, well that kinda sucks but keep in mind you should have a bag full of weapons for different situations so it's just one less you have to worry about.
Edited, Mon Jan 10 14:13:29 2005 by Revilo
EQ1. A raiding warrior bagged a nice damage/delay 2h with aggro proc for sure. BoW was the ultimate for this. When the mobs are hitting for 3k+ you have to minimize the riposte. I parsed many, many fights with our guild, and a warrior yeilding a 2h vs duel wield most definately took less damage (they did put out a new AA to reduce/eliminate offhand riposte, which made duel wielding viable again)
For exp grouping, duel wield was ok. You might still notice a difference in the amount of damage they took, but it was slight and able to be overcome usually.
Aggro. 2h vs 1h/sheild vs duel wield. Makes no difference it's all about dps. Whichever combination of weapons will produce the most dps will produce the most raw aggro. Aggro procs could be found on all types of weapons not to mention the anger 3 augs so that is somewhat of a non-issue depending on the weapons available to you.
Now, on to EQ2.
I have noticed very little riposte damage from mobs (not sure I've ever seen any at all really, but it scrolls by so fast I haven't really payed that much attention). So, I would say whatever weapon fits the situation is the best to use. *edit* Also, aggro is generated more from skills than dps in this game, so aggro really isn't much of an issue. The guardians that someone said are using 2h and can't hold aggro simply don't know what they are doing. I do way more damage and generate way more hate by using my skills than my raw dps from my weapons.
Any guardian at 20-25+ should have a bag of weapons. One hand-shield combo, duel wield combo, and 2h. Duel wielding and 2h is going to be compareable dps at this stage of the game. 1h/shield is best for the hard hitting ^^ orange con your trying to kill. A good guardian will change his weapons based on what he's fighting.
As for the Qeynos guardians getting a 2h, well that kinda sucks but keep in mind you should have a bag full of weapons for different situations so it's just one less you have to worry about.
Edited, Mon Jan 10 14:13:29 2005 by Revilo
Way off topic:
Fought an earthcrawler (it was yellow con and I'm 16 warrior with greatsword) in Northern Farmlands in Antonica last night... sucka did 4 ripostes in a row... ><
Quote:
I have noticed very little riposte damage from mobs
Fought an earthcrawler (it was yellow con and I'm 16 warrior with greatsword) in Northern Farmlands in Antonica last night... sucka did 4 ripostes in a row... ><
2 posts
I know this is my first post (on this forum), so I'll immediately be discounted by some of you, but even though I rarely post anywhere, I'm bored, so I will now. I read that thread on The Steel Warrior -- every single post. Almost the only time 2-handers are even mentioned is only to list them. The entire last page and a half discusses 1-handed weapons and their hate vs dps. One of my best friends at the time I played EQ1 was a warrior in BoTS, and the 3-4 warriors they rotated as main tanks all dual-wielded 1-handers. Two-handers were for pallies, sk's, and dps warriors.
Also, that thread is about which weapons have the best PROCS that generate hate/aggro. Some of the later posts even discuss the difference between hate proccing weapons and pure damage weapons. The discussion never even touches which wield style is better for hate production. It's like kicking a football with no wind or with a 30kph tail-wind. Of course you'll go much farther with the tail-wind.
It's way too early to say anything definitive (and this is a completely different game, mind you), but if you're going to use historical precedent (and it seems you're trying), then with all things equal, dual-wielding is the way to go for aggro. Just don't misrepresent something in the hopes that people are too lazy to read it and call you on it.
Ruadhin
I don't list toons for fear that I wouldn't be good enough for you. And I just don't think I could go on if that were the case.
Also, that thread is about which weapons have the best PROCS that generate hate/aggro. Some of the later posts even discuss the difference between hate proccing weapons and pure damage weapons. The discussion never even touches which wield style is better for hate production. It's like kicking a football with no wind or with a 30kph tail-wind. Of course you'll go much farther with the tail-wind.
It's way too early to say anything definitive (and this is a completely different game, mind you), but if you're going to use historical precedent (and it seems you're trying), then with all things equal, dual-wielding is the way to go for aggro. Just don't misrepresent something in the hopes that people are too lazy to read it and call you on it.
Ruadhin
I don't list toons for fear that I wouldn't be good enough for you. And I just don't think I could go on if that were the case.
I'd say the question should be : Why get so caught up over a lower level quest reward?
Personally, I love Halberds. Not a stat-based love, but I just love the feel and image of one. Personally, at lvl 20 (which I am now) I am an effective tank regardless of which weapon I use.
So there is no use in complaining over it, as someone said earlier it is simply a matter of personal preference.
Personally, I love Halberds. Not a stat-based love, but I just love the feel and image of one. Personally, at lvl 20 (which I am now) I am an effective tank regardless of which weapon I use.
So there is no use in complaining over it, as someone said earlier it is simply a matter of personal preference.
5 posts
Why the rant?
I used both weapons on my warrior on eq1. I used the dual wield more cause that wsa my style. But then a thing to consider is enemy damage sheields...witch a slowwer harder hitting weapon would make more sence. Oh yeah...I had no problem with agro either way. Beside its was eq =)
Just my 2cp
I used both weapons on my warrior on eq1. I used the dual wield more cause that wsa my style. But then a thing to consider is enemy damage sheields...witch a slowwer harder hitting weapon would make more sence. Oh yeah...I had no problem with agro either way. Beside its was eq =)
Just my 2cp
Different situations definately call for different weapons/armor. At times, duel wielding is the way to go- fast hits, low damage. Other times, as mentioned with damage shielded mobs, high damage slow hits is where it is at.
Sometimes you need to rely on your group for the damage output while you concentrate on absorbing damage. Strong high damage attacking mobs require more AC and more HP and less damage output on your part.
Mobs with extreme magic or elemental or disease/poison attacks require higher resists than AC or damage output on your part. Again, this puts the ability of your group to have the propper damage output, while you beef up your resists and ac to keep you alive.
Sometimes you need to rely on your group for the damage output while you concentrate on absorbing damage. Strong high damage attacking mobs require more AC and more HP and less damage output on your part.
Mobs with extreme magic or elemental or disease/poison attacks require higher resists than AC or damage output on your part. Again, this puts the ability of your group to have the propper damage output, while you beef up your resists and ac to keep you alive.
4 posts
Thnx m8, was thinking exactly the same thing.If anyone has the answer, i would like to know as well, cause at the middle lvl 20s i still can't see any differnce between a paladin and guardian when it comes to tanking
LOL it's funny how nobody is answering this guys question. Oh well I might as well throw in my unproductive 2 cents as well. Below is a list of things you should know about your guardian.
1)Always keep 2 sets of weapons on your eq2 guardian-- one for dps (wether it is a 2 hander or dual wield weps)and another for defense(some combo of a shield and one hander)This is because guardians are built so defensively that you will absolutely kick the crap out of anything white and below. Guardians have a great hp/mitigation advantage over their counterparts, and I have found with mine that tanking anything short of a yellow conn is a joke. (of course this is based on someone who has standard gear- those with junk may find things more difficult)
2)Always Always Always take the 5% hp increase when you have the opportunity. (I am referring to the little cross thing that appears when you ding sometimes) If you don't you are a ****** and should choose a class besides a tank.
3)I have found that by jacking up my Guardians agi, rather than my str, I have created a tank that is relatively unhitable. Now of course he isn't immune to damage, but he is getting there. However, this is a personal choice and my overall power suffers as a result(guardians get their power from str) I don't recommend it to everyone. But I am over 62% avoidance now and I can tell you from my perspective it was worth it.
4)Don't take **** from monks/bruisers. They will relentlessly talk out of their *** about how they can tank just as well as fighters/crusaders. Guess what-- they can't. Then when they are informed of their gimpness they will challenge you to a duel (due to the fact that they are a better dueling class than the guardian) Your response should be to challenge them to a tank off-- you each pick a mob of equal level and tank it until you are both dead. The bruiser will immediately realize his gimpness and run away with his tail between his legs.
Did you find my post off the subject and uninformative? I hope so.
Sincerely
70 ogre guardian
/flex
1)Always keep 2 sets of weapons on your eq2 guardian-- one for dps (wether it is a 2 hander or dual wield weps)and another for defense(some combo of a shield and one hander)This is because guardians are built so defensively that you will absolutely kick the crap out of anything white and below. Guardians have a great hp/mitigation advantage over their counterparts, and I have found with mine that tanking anything short of a yellow conn is a joke. (of course this is based on someone who has standard gear- those with junk may find things more difficult)
2)Always Always Always take the 5% hp increase when you have the opportunity. (I am referring to the little cross thing that appears when you ding sometimes) If you don't you are a ****** and should choose a class besides a tank.
3)I have found that by jacking up my Guardians agi, rather than my str, I have created a tank that is relatively unhitable. Now of course he isn't immune to damage, but he is getting there. However, this is a personal choice and my overall power suffers as a result(guardians get their power from str) I don't recommend it to everyone. But I am over 62% avoidance now and I can tell you from my perspective it was worth it.
4)Don't take **** from monks/bruisers. They will relentlessly talk out of their *** about how they can tank just as well as fighters/crusaders. Guess what-- they can't. Then when they are informed of their gimpness they will challenge you to a duel (due to the fact that they are a better dueling class than the guardian) Your response should be to challenge them to a tank off-- you each pick a mob of equal level and tank it until you are both dead. The bruiser will immediately realize his gimpness and run away with his tail between his legs.
Did you find my post off the subject and uninformative? I hope so.
Sincerely
70 ogre guardian
/flex
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