http://vnboards.ign.com/EQ2_General_Board/b22210/79931942/p1/
This is a really well-debated thread on the subject of soloing - and lots of other related stuff. I was very impressed by it.
Another thing that impressed me was that it went on for a whole, long page before someone broke down, got rude and flamed. Something we could learn here ("we" includes me - I'm guilty of being thin-skinned myself). I sure hope we can debate things here more maturely. In case you don't understand what I'm talking about, let me outline it here. Poster one says, "Gosh, I find myself having to solo more and more, but it's getting harder and is such a grind. Why doesn't Sony fix this?" Flamer comes on and says, "Gee, maybe becasue Sony built this mmo to be a GROUP game (they said so a million times) - after all why would anyone play an mmo and just solo - you do know what mmo means, right?" Or something like that. See, if we were arguing face to face, a person would never flame me like that. Why? Cuz I'd pop them in your mouth so hard they'd be poopin out teeth the next six months. But here, in the anonymous world of internet posting, our chickens*** nature tends to come out - and too many of us (me too sometimes - I'm as guilty as anyone) - like to play the snivelling little "ambush your neighbor game" (hey, there's no pvp in eq2, so we do it here w/ flames...?). Well, imo a mature and caring person would respond to someone carping about soloing problems with "Have you mastered the basics of soloing - there are some tricks to it - here they are. And if that doesn't work for you, maybe give WoW a try - it's made for soloing. I'm sorry for you that eQ2 isn't a great soloing game. I know it's so appealing in other ways. Best of luck figuring this out." Well, I guess I'm asking for too much here. I fully expect to be flamed for being an idiot even positing this (let's see, is it gonna be: (a) "gee you must not have a life if you rant like this in Alla" (b) "are you telling me other threads are better than our threads? Why don't you quit here and go THERE you jerk?" (c) "Why are you still talking about soloing in any way, shape or form, whiner - eq2 is not a soloing game, so get over it!" or (d) "all of the above?" Oh, or will I be ripped a new one for some issue of grammar or spelling? Sigh.
Well, the soloing issues as stated on that thread are, again, very well done imo. I hope people will read it - and I hope it will elevate our debate on the subject here. Those guys have made points I've been trying to make, only they hit the nail on the head in a way that's been eluding my limited abilities. Thanks much.
- Forums
- EverQuest II
- General Discussion
- the soloing problem explored in depth
the soloing problem explored in depthFollow
It is indeed a good discussion, thanks for the link.
I'm pretty worried about the whole deal myself too, I always liked soloing, mostly because grouping often is a bore, camping the same spot over and over again. (well, it was in EQ)
I like to solo, I've had little problems lvling my paladin to lvl 20 mostly solo with only a few quests in a group.
But when keep hearing that it is almost impossible to get any xp after lvl 20, I do panick a little, lol.
Nevertheless, grouping is inevitable, even if you were to concentrate mostly on quests for xp you still require a group to get several of them.
I do wonder what the changes were that were made this week. I've read something about adding more solo quests?
I'm pretty worried about the whole deal myself too, I always liked soloing, mostly because grouping often is a bore, camping the same spot over and over again. (well, it was in EQ)
I like to solo, I've had little problems lvling my paladin to lvl 20 mostly solo with only a few quests in a group.
But when keep hearing that it is almost impossible to get any xp after lvl 20, I do panick a little, lol.
Nevertheless, grouping is inevitable, even if you were to concentrate mostly on quests for xp you still require a group to get several of them.
I do wonder what the changes were that were made this week. I've read something about adding more solo quests?
Thanks for the link Evil. I'll have to go check it out.
As for being guilty of flaming, I'd say that you are certainly no more guilty than others and far less guilty than most. Anytime that you take a hard stand on a subject and actually (gasp!) present some facts to back up your assertion, you are virutally guaranteed to elicit some flames from the 'nattering nabobs of negativity' out there- which, at last count, is roughly 75% of the regular posters on any given board. My take is to believe in what you post as being right and true and let the flames just fall from your back like so much dandruff (nice visual, eh?).
Soloing or, rather, many classes' relative inability to solo and the severe post-20 limitations placed on soloing by SoE are a major issue for many, though far from all, players. If you are a class wanted in a group (healer, tank or true dps caster) and adventuring in a zone which is, despite being grossly overpopulated, happens to remain stable, then you're in a pretty sweet situation. You'll see your xp bar fill rapidly (assuming you don't get trained to death as happens so often in FG) and alsmost certainly have a shot at more and better loot.
If you're not a preferred class or the zone isn't stable (though, to be fair, that's not happening as often as it did the first couple of weeks), then you aren't likely to be having an enjoyable gaming experience and WoW starts to look mightly good. While SoE cannot do very much to make people want to group with classes that they see as not being group-friendly, they bloody well can add some solo-capable content to give those of us in that situation something to do to make at least some progress while waiting for a group leader to issue an invitation.
In my opinion, SoE took to heart the complaint made by many EQ1 players that tanks and healers weren't effective soloers- certainly not up to par with, say, Necros, Magicians, Shaman and Druids- and took steps to ensure that those classes would, in fact, be able to solo well in EQ2. Personally, I think that's terrific. However, rather than leave the classes in EQ1 that could solo very well alone or slightly rein them in, they've all but gutted their capabilities at soloing. No, it isn't impossible but, in terms of reward versus effort expended, it might as well be.
As for being guilty of flaming, I'd say that you are certainly no more guilty than others and far less guilty than most. Anytime that you take a hard stand on a subject and actually (gasp!) present some facts to back up your assertion, you are virutally guaranteed to elicit some flames from the 'nattering nabobs of negativity' out there- which, at last count, is roughly 75% of the regular posters on any given board. My take is to believe in what you post as being right and true and let the flames just fall from your back like so much dandruff (nice visual, eh?).
Soloing or, rather, many classes' relative inability to solo and the severe post-20 limitations placed on soloing by SoE are a major issue for many, though far from all, players. If you are a class wanted in a group (healer, tank or true dps caster) and adventuring in a zone which is, despite being grossly overpopulated, happens to remain stable, then you're in a pretty sweet situation. You'll see your xp bar fill rapidly (assuming you don't get trained to death as happens so often in FG) and alsmost certainly have a shot at more and better loot.
If you're not a preferred class or the zone isn't stable (though, to be fair, that's not happening as often as it did the first couple of weeks), then you aren't likely to be having an enjoyable gaming experience and WoW starts to look mightly good. While SoE cannot do very much to make people want to group with classes that they see as not being group-friendly, they bloody well can add some solo-capable content to give those of us in that situation something to do to make at least some progress while waiting for a group leader to issue an invitation.
In my opinion, SoE took to heart the complaint made by many EQ1 players that tanks and healers weren't effective soloers- certainly not up to par with, say, Necros, Magicians, Shaman and Druids- and took steps to ensure that those classes would, in fact, be able to solo well in EQ2. Personally, I think that's terrific. However, rather than leave the classes in EQ1 that could solo very well alone or slightly rein them in, they've all but gutted their capabilities at soloing. No, it isn't impossible but, in terms of reward versus effort expended, it might as well be.
Thanks guys. I think you're right - Sony went too far in truncating the classic old soloing classes. Now there is almost no variety in tactics at all. And it makes grinding for exp a "true grind".
Regarding the negs out there who love to backstab posters - thanks again for the support. I just realized something after posting this thread: these forums are nothing but "talk radio" for EQ2! It may sound stupid, but realizing that allowed me to laugh at the whole situation - and to stop letting it bug me so much. Just like in talk radio there are some people who "call in" just to be nasty - a sick ego-feeding mechanism or something. Now, I can be nasty, but 98% of the time I'm pushed into it ("he drew first blood").
Well, here's hoping that Sony will fix the game and allow a better soling experience. Real life talk radio sometimes gets things done. Maybe Sony will get the message (I also feedback in-game and post under another name on the Sony boards). I don't really want to abandon eq2 - again, they got so much so right. It's really appealing. I just hope they'll fix the parts where they totally got it wrong. Thanks.
Regarding the negs out there who love to backstab posters - thanks again for the support. I just realized something after posting this thread: these forums are nothing but "talk radio" for EQ2! It may sound stupid, but realizing that allowed me to laugh at the whole situation - and to stop letting it bug me so much. Just like in talk radio there are some people who "call in" just to be nasty - a sick ego-feeding mechanism or something. Now, I can be nasty, but 98% of the time I'm pushed into it ("he drew first blood").
Well, here's hoping that Sony will fix the game and allow a better soling experience. Real life talk radio sometimes gets things done. Maybe Sony will get the message (I also feedback in-game and post under another name on the Sony boards). I don't really want to abandon eq2 - again, they got so much so right. It's really appealing. I just hope they'll fix the parts where they totally got it wrong. Thanks.
I'm hoping for more solo content myself. I like to group and meet new people, but sometimes I just want to play alone (especially if I group with others who want to saddle me with debt). I like having options.
23 posts
Soloing after 20 does get a tad slow, but its still by far possible. I know many people feel the same way i do about this, sometimes ... its just a bad idea to group. Seriosly, many groups you come across thier will always be that one person .... that destroys the whole group someway and somehow. Wether it be from pulling 50 add's to the party, being rude-jerk-loud mouth, or just not doing what they should be doing with their class.
I like grouping dont get me wrong... but my god most the times i dont even think about grouping unless its with my RL friends.
I play guardian>my DD is that of a sissy girl< i've solo'd so much that its crazy. I solo'd my way to 15 before i entered one group, that group left a bad taste in my mouth so i solo'd to 20. Sketched out a map of serpent sewers to get to the storage room as fast as i could, made it got guardian and was happy.
Grouped through 20 to 22 to get 3 of my AQ armors, then i solo'd from 22 to my current level 26. From 25 to 26 it took me 4 hours, mass killing greens. I came outta that zone with 6 gold worth of vendor loot. As a guardian i'm having a decent time soloing, greens-blue-white are completely easy. yellows are still easy i never get below 70% health on them, but for some reason orange con solo's whip me pretty good. Green con group mobs are no sweat even with the ^ on them.
I hope everyone is able to solo like that, at times soloing is completely more fun that going to a group of people you dont know and haveing debt before you even get to thier camp. Or having to repair your armor from a 60% state because no one cared what happened to you.
I'm not anti group, sometimes its just a smart thing to solo. This is one thing they shouldnt nerf.
I like grouping dont get me wrong... but my god most the times i dont even think about grouping unless its with my RL friends.
I play guardian>my DD is that of a sissy girl< i've solo'd so much that its crazy. I solo'd my way to 15 before i entered one group, that group left a bad taste in my mouth so i solo'd to 20. Sketched out a map of serpent sewers to get to the storage room as fast as i could, made it got guardian and was happy.
Grouped through 20 to 22 to get 3 of my AQ armors, then i solo'd from 22 to my current level 26. From 25 to 26 it took me 4 hours, mass killing greens. I came outta that zone with 6 gold worth of vendor loot. As a guardian i'm having a decent time soloing, greens-blue-white are completely easy. yellows are still easy i never get below 70% health on them, but for some reason orange con solo's whip me pretty good. Green con group mobs are no sweat even with the ^ on them.
I hope everyone is able to solo like that, at times soloing is completely more fun that going to a group of people you dont know and haveing debt before you even get to thier camp. Or having to repair your armor from a 60% state because no one cared what happened to you.
I'm not anti group, sometimes its just a smart thing to solo. This is one thing they shouldnt nerf.
Yup I don't care if it's slow xp.. if it's xp. it's always good to have options.. or it turn into past games like FFXi..
Just looking at a monster giving you 5xp would kill you at higher lvls for most jobs, thus forcing you to party all time. Standing around doing nothing if you can't find one.
Even the worst soloing class in EQ2 can earn SOME xp soloing, while waiting for a party or otherwise.
Just looking at a monster giving you 5xp would kill you at higher lvls for most jobs, thus forcing you to party all time. Standing around doing nothing if you can't find one.
Even the worst soloing class in EQ2 can earn SOME xp soloing, while waiting for a party or otherwise.
Scholar
25 posts
I've never really found soloing a problem in EQ2, to be honest... granted, I'm only lvl 20, but just a couple of hours ago I was soloing Giant Kodiaks for Armour Quest 2, and not really having any trouble. But, besides that, I'm also a Templar, so I never really have any trouble finding a group anyway- and theres usually at least one or two of my friends or guildmates online when I am, so I can almost always find someone to group with.
Mind you, I don't generally solo anyway (soloing for me is more a case of healing myself and hoping the enemy eventually drops down dead before I run out of Power), and I'm one of those people who does love to play EQ2 because of its emphasis on grouping. Ah, I dunno, I guess it really is an each-to-their-own situation.
Mind you, I don't generally solo anyway (soloing for me is more a case of healing myself and hoping the enemy eventually drops down dead before I run out of Power), and I'm one of those people who does love to play EQ2 because of its emphasis on grouping. Ah, I dunno, I guess it really is an each-to-their-own situation.
It's only now that I'm starting to see how a few posts I read weeks ago might come true - that with maturity the game might get better. I thought they meant that Sony would fix things, but I can see now that what they meant was that in time the players would fix some things - specifically that like in other games, more and more players would finally "get" how to play in groups. Once you can rely on groups not being so bassackwards, the game will be much better. And maybe what these posters also meant was that maybe Sony will wake up and end some of the ludicrously bad ideas like shared group debt (and sell the goon who thought of that to a slave labor camp in China). Something like that.
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that better groups would be a sort of backwards fix to the soloing problem.
I've been trying small groups - two or three of us taking on ^^ mobs, or blue camps of gnolls. The other day I had a mage and a paladin working on group cross-class HOs, the big multi-symbol ones. It was cool. A few were spectacular duds (we got some buff when we needed damage), but some were wicked nukes. And I've been thinking of joining a guild - the main advantage being that if I'm in a good one, there will be competent people to group w/ on tap. I'm just wary of the whole guild thing - having been in the top raiding guild on my server in old eq. A good guild is hard to get into and requires a massive commitment - well, not sure if eq2 is there yet. But a more mellow group that still has decent players....
Anyone ever play Anarchy Online? I bring this up because they had a mix of regular dungeons, outdoor hunting grounds, and "misions" - special instanced dungeons u could either solo or take on w/ groups. It was actually pretty good - it was where I went after I burned out on old eq. And eq2 is hinting that it wants to get at more special, instanced experiences for us. But... it's like they saw they could do it and then pulled back - fearing it somehow - and only allowed a parsimonious mini-sampling to be implemented. I sense a world of potential here. What if a quest didn't just send you on some errand or make you kill 40 gnolls? What if only started w/ that, and the reward was that you got to enter an amazing instanced zone where, if you did the right things, you got some cool reward? The zone doesn't have to be a dungeon, either - it can involve all sorts of challenges beyond just fighting, too. Note, AO had tons of special instanced zones - so it is doable technically - has been doable for years. What I'd want out this, however, is not a cheap little traveling fair ride - I'd want "Pirates of the Caribbean". But heck, some "missions" wouldn't be a bad idea - it would be something to do in the game other than grind exp, endlessly search for resources, or grind tradeskills. Well, I've rambled enough. GL all!
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that better groups would be a sort of backwards fix to the soloing problem.
I've been trying small groups - two or three of us taking on ^^ mobs, or blue camps of gnolls. The other day I had a mage and a paladin working on group cross-class HOs, the big multi-symbol ones. It was cool. A few were spectacular duds (we got some buff when we needed damage), but some were wicked nukes. And I've been thinking of joining a guild - the main advantage being that if I'm in a good one, there will be competent people to group w/ on tap. I'm just wary of the whole guild thing - having been in the top raiding guild on my server in old eq. A good guild is hard to get into and requires a massive commitment - well, not sure if eq2 is there yet. But a more mellow group that still has decent players....
Anyone ever play Anarchy Online? I bring this up because they had a mix of regular dungeons, outdoor hunting grounds, and "misions" - special instanced dungeons u could either solo or take on w/ groups. It was actually pretty good - it was where I went after I burned out on old eq. And eq2 is hinting that it wants to get at more special, instanced experiences for us. But... it's like they saw they could do it and then pulled back - fearing it somehow - and only allowed a parsimonious mini-sampling to be implemented. I sense a world of potential here. What if a quest didn't just send you on some errand or make you kill 40 gnolls? What if only started w/ that, and the reward was that you got to enter an amazing instanced zone where, if you did the right things, you got some cool reward? The zone doesn't have to be a dungeon, either - it can involve all sorts of challenges beyond just fighting, too. Note, AO had tons of special instanced zones - so it is doable technically - has been doable for years. What I'd want out this, however, is not a cheap little traveling fair ride - I'd want "Pirates of the Caribbean". But heck, some "missions" wouldn't be a bad idea - it would be something to do in the game other than grind exp, endlessly search for resources, or grind tradeskills. Well, I've rambled enough. GL all!
solo mobs I can usually take it's the fact so many of the quest require group mobs for items but that's to be expected to be quite honest otherwise everyone would slow.
I group when one gets offered to me and one of the things I love about this game is that I have the freedom to do that, eq1 seemed to consist of group or sit there inactive mentatily a blue mob could kick my *** and I'd probably pick up aggro just to be extra nice. I play a Bereserker instead of my warrior of eq1 and It's kinda fun being dps for once (although the I have MT a few times).
You get your good and you bad groups but the main thing to do is keep calm and don't worry soo much. Remember debt is your friend, with debt it's almost like your duoing :P.
I had a group that wiped twice ... man that was lame and I've had a group that didn't have a single death in 6 hours bar me right at the start .. running in the wrong direction like a moron, damn lifetaps.
I could refuse to group c'ept with guildies but that'd be kinda crappy and I've had some incredible pick up groups. to each their own I suppose
I group when one gets offered to me and one of the things I love about this game is that I have the freedom to do that, eq1 seemed to consist of group or sit there inactive mentatily a blue mob could kick my *** and I'd probably pick up aggro just to be extra nice. I play a Bereserker instead of my warrior of eq1 and It's kinda fun being dps for once (although the I have MT a few times).
You get your good and you bad groups but the main thing to do is keep calm and don't worry soo much. Remember debt is your friend, with debt it's almost like your duoing :P.
I had a group that wiped twice ... man that was lame and I've had a group that didn't have a single death in 6 hours bar me right at the start .. running in the wrong direction like a moron, damn lifetaps.
I could refuse to group c'ept with guildies but that'd be kinda crappy and I've had some incredible pick up groups. to each their own I suppose
I would like to see some solo quests that invole instance zones. But not too many.
I solo most of the time because i pull call and have to leave sometimes at the drop of a hat. BUT. I love to group on my nights off. Just so much damned fun.
I solo most of the time because i pull call and have to leave sometimes at the drop of a hat. BUT. I love to group on my nights off. Just so much damned fun.
9 posts
Personally I prefer to solo for a few reasons. Firstly I like to explore what CAN be done to vary tactics and increase survivability - I have soloed a yellow^ orc and came out with 70% health, 20% power and better melee/defense skills. I am also not afraid to use some xp debt to slow down my advance through lvls so I can get more quests done before I defect, and that is not something you do to a group. But a major factor is also because I can NOT stand idiocy... and by that I do not mean over-pulling mobs because half were hidden, wiping the group, or someone hit the wrong button so whatever they were expected to do is at best delayed. I refer mainly to the TRUE idiots...
On IoR I had someone ask to join my group as we were trying to get some pirate's maps. At this point all the skellies needed to respawn, so my group briefly did our own things locally - 2 went after a Shadow Serpent, another went after a blue^ goblin pair, and I went after that named bear... just as I get done killing the bear (and it was close - I soloed it and group got xp, just as I got xp from the serpent/gobs), the guy who wanted to join us arrives and I invite him. The VERY first thing he does, even before saying hi to the group, is loot the chest that dropped from the bear! Fortunately it was a dazzling trap and not a DD or DoT, which would have killed me so shortly after that fight. I was kind of irked as one can imagine, and asked him if I could have the loot from MY kill since he wasn't even in the group when the bear died... and damn did he get snotty! He went off about how MY greed was going to deprive him of a shield he so desprately needed until the rest of the group told him to can it since I was helping them out (they were all 4-5, I was 6+) and I did solo the effin' thing. He went ahead and gave me the shield back after getting reemed by the rest of the group, but spent SO much time sending me /tells about how badly he needed that shield (when he wasn't running off to forage DURING battle) that he got killed by a goblin who walked up from in front of him... the last /tell from him was along the lines of "Can't you just give it to me? Without that shield my ac is onl``````````````". The rest of us were busy with the skellies at that moment and couldn't save him in time, so we all got a share of his debt. He left the group IMMEDIATELY upon winning a lotto for a map (one of the first - go figure) and then did a snide /ooc about looking for a group that wasn't too greedy to let him loot, 'cuz he wanted Rockbelly's cutlass.
Of course, if he hadn't ninja'd the chest and simply ASKED for it or, god forbid, offered to trade or buy the shield, I would have given it to him. I didn't need the shield - I DID need coin, lead or pelts though, as I was also working on tradeskills.
That is just one example out of several, but it is long-winded enough, I suppose. I have had some good groups too, to be sure, but in all honesty they are few and far between. And I NEVER accept random invites - I learned on EQ1 and CoH that to do so is to invite disaster.
If you depend on groups to get through everything, or even most things, you will never learn how to adapt to situations or gain your own 'flavor' for when you do group. You won't be as quick in critical descisions because you won't know your toons true capability. There IS a difference between a mere Summoner and a Battlemage (or clerics, etc.) and it shows in how often you get hit, or land a blow when mob hp makes nuking a waste or your power is depleted from the first 2 mobs - or that orc just said something about yo' mama and needs a quick pop in the mouth (or however high you can reach).
Just my 2cp and the kitchen sink :P
On IoR I had someone ask to join my group as we were trying to get some pirate's maps. At this point all the skellies needed to respawn, so my group briefly did our own things locally - 2 went after a Shadow Serpent, another went after a blue^ goblin pair, and I went after that named bear... just as I get done killing the bear (and it was close - I soloed it and group got xp, just as I got xp from the serpent/gobs), the guy who wanted to join us arrives and I invite him. The VERY first thing he does, even before saying hi to the group, is loot the chest that dropped from the bear! Fortunately it was a dazzling trap and not a DD or DoT, which would have killed me so shortly after that fight. I was kind of irked as one can imagine, and asked him if I could have the loot from MY kill since he wasn't even in the group when the bear died... and damn did he get snotty! He went off about how MY greed was going to deprive him of a shield he so desprately needed until the rest of the group told him to can it since I was helping them out (they were all 4-5, I was 6+) and I did solo the effin' thing. He went ahead and gave me the shield back after getting reemed by the rest of the group, but spent SO much time sending me /tells about how badly he needed that shield (when he wasn't running off to forage DURING battle) that he got killed by a goblin who walked up from in front of him... the last /tell from him was along the lines of "Can't you just give it to me? Without that shield my ac is onl``````````````". The rest of us were busy with the skellies at that moment and couldn't save him in time, so we all got a share of his debt. He left the group IMMEDIATELY upon winning a lotto for a map (one of the first - go figure) and then did a snide /ooc about looking for a group that wasn't too greedy to let him loot, 'cuz he wanted Rockbelly's cutlass.
Of course, if he hadn't ninja'd the chest and simply ASKED for it or, god forbid, offered to trade or buy the shield, I would have given it to him. I didn't need the shield - I DID need coin, lead or pelts though, as I was also working on tradeskills.
That is just one example out of several, but it is long-winded enough, I suppose. I have had some good groups too, to be sure, but in all honesty they are few and far between. And I NEVER accept random invites - I learned on EQ1 and CoH that to do so is to invite disaster.
If you depend on groups to get through everything, or even most things, you will never learn how to adapt to situations or gain your own 'flavor' for when you do group. You won't be as quick in critical descisions because you won't know your toons true capability. There IS a difference between a mere Summoner and a Battlemage (or clerics, etc.) and it shows in how often you get hit, or land a blow when mob hp makes nuking a waste or your power is depleted from the first 2 mobs - or that orc just said something about yo' mama and needs a quick pop in the mouth (or however high you can reach).
Just my 2cp and the kitchen sink :P
I'd have just kicked him after he gave the loot back ... what a moron, even if it you hadn't solo'ed it, he wasn't the group while combat took place .. no rights to loot in my opinon.
We got into a guild arguement of something similar where a guy was afk and he came back and went in on lotto for somtheing killed while he was away.
We all had stories of madness like the cleric that liked to go afk after we'd pulled, the caster that though bringing a train to our camp spot was a great Idea when we where already in combat and the sponger that hasn't done anything in 20minutes but get exp (damn I've even been guilty of that one myself, although in my defense I fell asleep and it was my 6th hour in that group).
Horror stories like these are part and parcel of interacting with other people you gotta take the rough with the smooth I guess...
Edited, Thu Dec 23 08:39:01 2004 by Wolven
We got into a guild arguement of something similar where a guy was afk and he came back and went in on lotto for somtheing killed while he was away.
We all had stories of madness like the cleric that liked to go afk after we'd pulled, the caster that though bringing a train to our camp spot was a great Idea when we where already in combat and the sponger that hasn't done anything in 20minutes but get exp (damn I've even been guilty of that one myself, although in my defense I fell asleep and it was my 6th hour in that group).
Horror stories like these are part and parcel of interacting with other people you gotta take the rough with the smooth I guess...
Edited, Thu Dec 23 08:39:01 2004 by Wolven
Scholar
25 posts
the sweet is never as sweet without the sour. If all the peopl;e you grouped with were great, you'd never appreciate what a good teammate was like...
I disagree that the shared debt idea was a bad one though; rather, I think it tries to force people to behave responsibly in a group. Rather like real life- everyone else pays for one persons idiocy. No, it might not be fair, but in time that person will get a reputation for their stupidity. if I'm in a group where my groupmates are useless, silent, or keep getting us killed, I either kick out the crap ones or leave, simple as that.
Maybe I am just lucky to have such a great bunch of friends on EQ2 that I can usually count on at least one being on to team up with...
I disagree that the shared debt idea was a bad one though; rather, I think it tries to force people to behave responsibly in a group. Rather like real life- everyone else pays for one persons idiocy. No, it might not be fair, but in time that person will get a reputation for their stupidity. if I'm in a group where my groupmates are useless, silent, or keep getting us killed, I either kick out the crap ones or leave, simple as that.
Maybe I am just lucky to have such a great bunch of friends on EQ2 that I can usually count on at least one being on to team up with...
I also like the shared debt, although I there are times when it gets the best of me. :/
I also think it should have a range to it. If I'm not close enough to get your buffs, I shouldn't be close enough to share in your debt. So often I've gotten saddled with exp debt before I even get to the party (or before a member gets to us). That's frustrating. But otherwise, I think it's a smart way to get people to not act like idiots.
I also think it should have a range to it. If I'm not close enough to get your buffs, I shouldn't be close enough to share in your debt. So often I've gotten saddled with exp debt before I even get to the party (or before a member gets to us). That's frustrating. But otherwise, I think it's a smart way to get people to not act like idiots.
Miravelle,
I think that is a great idea. On that you should present to SOE. Seriously I think you should. I like the debt to. Although like everyone above it can be maddening to see that message you share in so and so's debt. GRRR.
Also I believe that there should be a limit to how much shared debt you can accrue. Maybe there is and I just haven't hit the limit yet..
I think that is a great idea. On that you should present to SOE. Seriously I think you should. I like the debt to. Although like everyone above it can be maddening to see that message you share in so and so's debt. GRRR.
Also I believe that there should be a limit to how much shared debt you can accrue. Maybe there is and I just haven't hit the limit yet..
The Shared Debt is a pretty fair and balanced way to give you a penalty for dying but not an overwhelming one (like appearing many zones away without any equipment and forcing you to retrieve your corpse in a set amount of time or you lose everything).
However, since the penalty isn't drastic, it doesn't have the impact that a more serious penalty might have on players. If all you have to do is kill a few more mobs to get back to where you were (or, if you're the victim of some real idiotic behavior, more than a few- I've been in a group that took me from 5% from levelling to a debt of 97%. Why did I stay? Because my Necro isn't invited into many groups and I have to either solo greens or maybe blues -OR- take what groups I can get when I can get them), what impact, really, does that have?
On the proverbial other hand, I definitely do NOT want a draconian penalty when I happen to take a dirt nap- certainly nothing like EQ1. Mythic gave its players a Constitution Loss with every death that you had to buy back, at substantial coin cost if you let it build up over several deaths, or suffer a loss in hitpoints. SoE covers the coin-sink aspect of that by having items degrade to the eventual point of uselessness unless you hire a Mender to repair them. In all honesty, I find it to be a pretty even-handed and reasonable penalty for dying.
However, since the penalty isn't drastic, it doesn't have the impact that a more serious penalty might have on players. If all you have to do is kill a few more mobs to get back to where you were (or, if you're the victim of some real idiotic behavior, more than a few- I've been in a group that took me from 5% from levelling to a debt of 97%. Why did I stay? Because my Necro isn't invited into many groups and I have to either solo greens or maybe blues -OR- take what groups I can get when I can get them), what impact, really, does that have?
On the proverbial other hand, I definitely do NOT want a draconian penalty when I happen to take a dirt nap- certainly nothing like EQ1. Mythic gave its players a Constitution Loss with every death that you had to buy back, at substantial coin cost if you let it build up over several deaths, or suffer a loss in hitpoints. SoE covers the coin-sink aspect of that by having items degrade to the eventual point of uselessness unless you hire a Mender to repair them. In all honesty, I find it to be a pretty even-handed and reasonable penalty for dying.
20 posts
time to FLAME lol jus kiddin` i too am dissappointed in the lack of solo content i played eq1 through college since i was full time student with no job or life i had no problems but now with a life after college and a full time job that also requires me to be on call 24 hrs a day 7 days a week the biggest reason i cancelled my subscription and lost my 45 th lvl bar shammy extremely well equipped too i might add all of it earned too not ebayed lol any way i left eq1 for eq2 because of all the hype soe put out about how eq2 would be a game not only for die hard 24 hr gamers but also for casual gamers with time constraints soe hyped this point so much i actually beleived the game would kind of have 2 sides to it solo stuff for casual people who have a real life with time constraints and group stuff for when you got the wonderful opportunity and time to play it that long i so hope they do fix this stuff b4 i get to the levels like in eq1 after 45 my shammy was usueless to weak to solo and not a strong enough heal to be wanted in groups which could mean only 1 thing THE GRIND which kills the fun factor completely so yes i am with you all on the solo content point
"THE GRIND which kills the fun factor completely "
You know, I just realized something reading that. See, in old EQ I think I spent a lot of my gaming time trying to "beat the grind". And there were ways. First, I had to play a class that could do it, so I picked Druid.
I did grind all the time, esp. when my guild buddies really needed a healer ("come on man, we're down in Chardsux, please come heal us!"). And sometimes I got good gear. But I never got much good exp. in groups - or when I did it was soooo rare.
But soloing and duoing w/ an enchanter, sometimes a necro - that was a BLAST. So many ways to "beat the GRIND" and get really good experience fast... that kept me interested.
This challenge is almost *totally missing* from EQ2. The only way for me to beat the GRIND is to find Green ^^s and hope no group comes along and takes them all from me - and solo or duo them with the other Gnome of EvilGnomes. I get way better experience than almost any group I've been in. But it's not "fun", it's not ... I can look at the spells I have to come, and there are no cool tactics for me to get up and earn, at least not that I can see. Just more of the same old crap, all the way up. Bleh.
Now, I know that for some of you this makes me your BIG ENEMY. I know some of you HATED old EQ droods and necros and bards - and we know why - it was becaue we were BEATING THE GRIND and... well, sorry, but imo you weren't - and you hated us. I know it cuz I heard/read it all the time.
Am I wrong? I'm not trying to flame or insult you. I really want to know. I mean yeah, old EQ couldn't be full of just droods, necros and bards - someone had to play the grind classes... (but why?). Of course I see why, but given alts - a lot of happy old-eq players played one grinder and one non-grinder.
Now w/ EQ2 I feel that the hammer has come down on me and all those who feel like I do - NO MORE BEATING THE GRIND YOU CRIMINAL YOU! YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE SPECIAL, HUH? GET DOWN THERE AND GRIND LIKE ALL THE OTHER PLAYERS OR QUIT! That's the voice of Sony yelling at me... sigh. No more fun, for me, anyway. I'm now a pariah, an outcast (AS YOU ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE BEEN, GNOME! WE HATE YOUR TYPE!) - sigh
You know, I just realized something reading that. See, in old EQ I think I spent a lot of my gaming time trying to "beat the grind". And there were ways. First, I had to play a class that could do it, so I picked Druid.
I did grind all the time, esp. when my guild buddies really needed a healer ("come on man, we're down in Chardsux, please come heal us!"). And sometimes I got good gear. But I never got much good exp. in groups - or when I did it was soooo rare.
But soloing and duoing w/ an enchanter, sometimes a necro - that was a BLAST. So many ways to "beat the GRIND" and get really good experience fast... that kept me interested.
This challenge is almost *totally missing* from EQ2. The only way for me to beat the GRIND is to find Green ^^s and hope no group comes along and takes them all from me - and solo or duo them with the other Gnome of EvilGnomes. I get way better experience than almost any group I've been in. But it's not "fun", it's not ... I can look at the spells I have to come, and there are no cool tactics for me to get up and earn, at least not that I can see. Just more of the same old crap, all the way up. Bleh.
Now, I know that for some of you this makes me your BIG ENEMY. I know some of you HATED old EQ droods and necros and bards - and we know why - it was becaue we were BEATING THE GRIND and... well, sorry, but imo you weren't - and you hated us. I know it cuz I heard/read it all the time.
Am I wrong? I'm not trying to flame or insult you. I really want to know. I mean yeah, old EQ couldn't be full of just droods, necros and bards - someone had to play the grind classes... (but why?). Of course I see why, but given alts - a lot of happy old-eq players played one grinder and one non-grinder.
Now w/ EQ2 I feel that the hammer has come down on me and all those who feel like I do - NO MORE BEATING THE GRIND YOU CRIMINAL YOU! YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE SPECIAL, HUH? GET DOWN THERE AND GRIND LIKE ALL THE OTHER PLAYERS OR QUIT! That's the voice of Sony yelling at me... sigh. No more fun, for me, anyway. I'm now a pariah, an outcast (AS YOU ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE BEEN, GNOME! WE HATE YOUR TYPE!) - sigh
I always play with the illusion that had SOE not modified damage for group mobs and mobs 20 and over, I'd still be "hardcore" about EQ2.
I fight groups not because of grinding... well, yes, I'm getting the experience but you know what? I really like fighting groups because I alway wanted a character that could fight more than 1 or 2 beasties. I got that in single player games, but I also want the diversity of multiplayer. I want the option to group if I can find adventurers brave enough to explore unknown lands (note, this is drastically different than grinding!), I wanted to spend [game] days travelling from one town to the next. Camping in a tent between towns.
Getting to the next level, in EQ2, stops for me when I get to 20 and become the actual subclass I want to be. I don't want to grind. I want to "live" in a world of fantasy. Know what I'm saying? To live a life I've dreamt about when reading fantasy books. I suppose that's why I'm getting a bit jaded. Not enough RP around. Lots of min/max, powergaming groups (there's nothing wrong with these, just not my cup of tea). Every time I hit a tavern, all I see are NPCs.
The whole "gamey" thing is brought to light when I can't sit in chairs, when sitting equals me kneeling. No matter where you go, a tavern only sells water and some crappy food stuff, if you're lucky.
I do know that my jadednes does stem from the soloing problem. Wasn't there a time when Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, actually meant that? Now it seems to be tranformed into Massively Group Online Game.
I dunno... maybe I should just take a break and look at the whole with fresh eyes. *shrug*
I fight groups not because of grinding... well, yes, I'm getting the experience but you know what? I really like fighting groups because I alway wanted a character that could fight more than 1 or 2 beasties. I got that in single player games, but I also want the diversity of multiplayer. I want the option to group if I can find adventurers brave enough to explore unknown lands (note, this is drastically different than grinding!), I wanted to spend [game] days travelling from one town to the next. Camping in a tent between towns.
Getting to the next level, in EQ2, stops for me when I get to 20 and become the actual subclass I want to be. I don't want to grind. I want to "live" in a world of fantasy. Know what I'm saying? To live a life I've dreamt about when reading fantasy books. I suppose that's why I'm getting a bit jaded. Not enough RP around. Lots of min/max, powergaming groups (there's nothing wrong with these, just not my cup of tea). Every time I hit a tavern, all I see are NPCs.
The whole "gamey" thing is brought to light when I can't sit in chairs, when sitting equals me kneeling. No matter where you go, a tavern only sells water and some crappy food stuff, if you're lucky.
I do know that my jadednes does stem from the soloing problem. Wasn't there a time when Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, actually meant that? Now it seems to be tranformed into Massively Group Online Game.
I dunno... maybe I should just take a break and look at the whole with fresh eyes. *shrug*
hey evilgnomes, do you still play this game? Oh, and to stay on topic. One of the key advertisements for this game was that it was playable by the casual player. I can say that I guess what they meant is that there is soloable creatures for every level? But that doesn't mean you can get much accomplished. 1 hour of soloing yellows is like 20%. It can get rough. Good thing I'm used to eq1, and I enjoy that worthless hour of 20% exp. =D Either I'm just forgetful, or I'm very correct, but lvl 22 is reminding me of lvl 59 in eqlive.
Edited, Thu Jan 13 03:25:57 2005 by Kensi
Edited, Thu Jan 13 03:25:57 2005 by Kensi
I just mess around any more - we bought a six month acct and can't get a refund. It was okay grinding solo under lvl 20 - the secret was to solo group mobs - esp green ^^s. As much as 3% a kill, usually 2%. But if I'm stuck soloing non-group "solo" mobs from here on out... yawn....
I know how you feel about there being no role playing in these games. All I can say is make a new toon in a role-playing server and give it a shot. But yeah, not being able to sit in chairs in a tavern stinks out loud. If u are in a tavern u ought to get a special sit option like /chair - and u are just there in a chair - that way peple won't fight over the few chairs there - I dunno. /tankard puts a cold one in your hand. /blowfoam /chug hehehe Yeah it's a bummer that all the bartenders sell is stupid WATER. Where's Clurg when u need him?
The other gnome hasn't had time to duo w/ me lately. We have a sorc/summoner combo... and it's really boring being the sorc. I just dot dot dot - if I nuke the mob is off the pet and on me - and i'm dead. My fury sometimes groups... but groups are so lame most of the time - nice people - but someone always pulls some noobish stunt and... wham. Disaster.
I'm serious about the above post - that realization clears my head - it was why I was so bloody ANGRY
- I had no real sense of success or accomplishment. Finding ways to actually beat the grind was very rewarding. I wonder if SoE was so determined to "stop anyone from beating the grind at all costs" that this sucked all the life from the adventuring/fighting?? Bah, who knows. GL all! Don't let me drag you down - go find some way to have fun in this stupid game and tell me how! I need some cheering up.
I know how you feel about there being no role playing in these games. All I can say is make a new toon in a role-playing server and give it a shot. But yeah, not being able to sit in chairs in a tavern stinks out loud. If u are in a tavern u ought to get a special sit option like /chair - and u are just there in a chair - that way peple won't fight over the few chairs there - I dunno. /tankard puts a cold one in your hand. /blowfoam /chug hehehe Yeah it's a bummer that all the bartenders sell is stupid WATER. Where's Clurg when u need him?
The other gnome hasn't had time to duo w/ me lately. We have a sorc/summoner combo... and it's really boring being the sorc. I just dot dot dot - if I nuke the mob is off the pet and on me - and i'm dead. My fury sometimes groups... but groups are so lame most of the time - nice people - but someone always pulls some noobish stunt and... wham. Disaster.
I'm serious about the above post - that realization clears my head - it was why I was so bloody ANGRY
- I had no real sense of success or accomplishment. Finding ways to actually beat the grind was very rewarding. I wonder if SoE was so determined to "stop anyone from beating the grind at all costs" that this sucked all the life from the adventuring/fighting?? Bah, who knows. GL all! Don't let me drag you down - go find some way to have fun in this stupid game and tell me how! I need some cheering up.I get good xp soloing actually, not much worse then a full group. Strange thing though is that I seem to get the most xp while duoing.. And duo is far better for farming cash. When I duo we never fail any HO's and we kill fast, mob after mob, without any real danger unless we take on white groups, even blue can be somewhat of a hazzle sometimes but we mostly go for the fast and easy stuff. Good loot and great xp, even at lvl 25.
Regarding solo'ing we get lots of notes that you examine to get soloquest after the new patch which gives very nice xp.
So many soloquests out there, even reapetable one's. Dont just kill random mob if you solo. Do quests and you get very good xp!
Regarding solo'ing we get lots of notes that you examine to get soloquest after the new patch which gives very nice xp.
So many soloquests out there, even reapetable one's. Dont just kill random mob if you solo. Do quests and you get very good xp!
Quote:
I've never really found soloing a problem in EQ2, to be honest... granted, I'm only lvl 20, but just a couple of hours ago I was soloing Giant Kodiaks for Armour Quest 2, and not really having any trouble.
Mind you, I don't generally solo anyway (soloing for me is more a case of healing myself and hoping the enemy eventually drops down dead before I run out of Power), and I'm one of those people who does love to play EQ2 because of its emphasis on grouping. Ah, I dunno, I guess it really is an each-to-their-own situation.
Mind you, I don't generally solo anyway (soloing for me is more a case of healing myself and hoping the enemy eventually drops down dead before I run out of Power), and I'm one of those people who does love to play EQ2 because of its emphasis on grouping. Ah, I dunno, I guess it really is an each-to-their-own situation.
Soloing is ok in EQ2 I soloed into 23 last night in KF I run a SK so no heals for me. Yeah sometimes and can be a close one with a yellow mob but if I stick to the solo mobs its ok I can win unless I mess up.
On the 2nd part of grouping, I have just as hard of a time finding groups in this game as I did in EQ1 seems you have good group nights and you have bad one.
I can remeber being /LFG for hours at a time in eq1 and just sitting around and waiting, atleast in EQ2 you can do a quest or solo something for exp, like it was said above ANY exp is better then none :)
I think the solo game will get better after all they added how many new solo quests? Was it 300? oh well will have to go look that up .
Anyhow just my 2 coppers
I played EQ1 for awhile, and actually enjoyed soloing for awhile, I had a 35 Vah Shir Beastlord and a 32 Gnome Magician and loved soloing with them.
SO far in EQ2 i havnt gotten very far (highest is lvl 15) but i have played a bunch of differant classes. Right now I'm working on getting a Gnome Summoner in freeport (only lvl 8 right now)
I enjoy solo'ing for the most part, I usually play while watching TV so i do tend to loose track of them the game from time to time, and while soloing its fine, I do group from time to time (usually when needed) adn i do enjoy playing in a nice group, but most just fail on so many levels that i just end up with alot of lost exp (or alot of debt). Also while solo'ing I'm free to harvest as much as i want, and i can get some nice loot to sell on the market.
SO far in EQ2 i havnt gotten very far (highest is lvl 15) but i have played a bunch of differant classes. Right now I'm working on getting a Gnome Summoner in freeport (only lvl 8 right now)
I enjoy solo'ing for the most part, I usually play while watching TV so i do tend to loose track of them the game from time to time, and while soloing its fine, I do group from time to time (usually when needed) adn i do enjoy playing in a nice group, but most just fail on so many levels that i just end up with alot of lost exp (or alot of debt). Also while solo'ing I'm free to harvest as much as i want, and i can get some nice loot to sell on the market.
Level 27 and this is how it works for me:
1 Cast all buffs
2 Refresh SoW (just in case)
3 Drink level 30 drink
4 POW to 100%
5 Cast Savagery and Bristlepelt
6 Wait 1 tick on POW to regen
7 Attack on
8 Pull with Cyclone
9 Feral Intimidation
10 Regrowth (or Fleshweave but usually Regrowth)
11 HO
12 Cyclone to start HO and refresh it when Cyclone wears off
13 Effloresce or Bloom as needed
14 Cyclone at 60-70% HO to refresh and bonus damage
15 Repeat steps 9 through 14 until I win or...
16 Repeat step 5 in case of long fight then back to 15
This is my typical fight against group mobs and red solo mobs. Group mobs from level 23 (gree) to 25 (blue). I tend to stick to blues since they seem to take as long as greens but give more reward. I only take on blues when I have my instant POW-free HoT active in case of emergency or too many lucky hits by mob. I don't ever use nukes during these fights. A resist will give the mob too big of a POW advantage.
For solo mobs up to orange, I tend to just outright HO nuke with my 2 nukes. Oranges will get some Cyclones at the beginning of the fight though. I will Regrowth from time to time just to make sure I don't get too low on health in case of adds.
1 Cast all buffs
2 Refresh SoW (just in case)
3 Drink level 30 drink
4 POW to 100%
5 Cast Savagery and Bristlepelt
6 Wait 1 tick on POW to regen
7 Attack on
8 Pull with Cyclone
9 Feral Intimidation
10 Regrowth (or Fleshweave but usually Regrowth)
11 HO
12 Cyclone to start HO and refresh it when Cyclone wears off
13 Effloresce or Bloom as needed
14 Cyclone at 60-70% HO to refresh and bonus damage
15 Repeat steps 9 through 14 until I win or...
16 Repeat step 5 in case of long fight then back to 15
This is my typical fight against group mobs and red solo mobs. Group mobs from level 23 (gree) to 25 (blue). I tend to stick to blues since they seem to take as long as greens but give more reward. I only take on blues when I have my instant POW-free HoT active in case of emergency or too many lucky hits by mob. I don't ever use nukes during these fights. A resist will give the mob too big of a POW advantage.
For solo mobs up to orange, I tend to just outright HO nuke with my 2 nukes. Oranges will get some Cyclones at the beginning of the fight though. I will Regrowth from time to time just to make sure I don't get too low on health in case of adds.
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