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EBAYERS and BOTS Please ReadFollow
Deathwysh, I think you're the most arrogant and Mr. Know-it-all I've ever seen, grow up buddy.
I think deathwysh was spot on and if the truth appears as arrogance then so be it.
25 posts
[quote]
Piffle. The reason there was so much platinum floating around was because the vast majority of it never leaves the game. It just gets handed from player to player, and all the while more plat is dropping everyday, and more is being handed out by merchants buying dropped goods. Its the same with equipment, for the most part once an item is dropped and looted, it never leaves the game.
i agrea with deathwysh when people got plat drops in the game and saved up no one would do trade skills , they would go buy stuff from the bazaar so it wouldnt leave the game
i think why everyone is ******** about bots and farmers is if they have a monopally and the price is to high you cant get the item... but you could go kill that mob and get the cool item..but they have the spone
so it makes it alot harder to get your charictor all the coolest stuff people who are used to twinking there guys out in eq 1 and pissed cus there stoped so fast they though they would be the first ones on to play and so they would have first dibbs on the good **** and be more pimp them people starting in 3 mounths ... but no it wasnt as easy as they thought to twink out there guy cus everything eather costs to much or the easy mobs are camed
so they eather have to TRY HARD to get money to buy the stuff OR DO QUESTS or kill stuff thats harder for about the same stuff but thats no drop
why do you even play the game if its so hard if you dont like bots then leave and come back in a year and buy stuff online so that was you can have a kick *** charictor that was easy to get with pimp stuff...but thats not PLAYING eq is it?
also eq isnt all about geting stuff you can still do good with out the best stuff there are quests...and insted of worring about bots geting good $ and the drops... level and play with your fellow eq peeps EQ is not an economy baced game its rpg
role playing game we are not playing sim city
Theres alot of opinions expressed here on the subject...
think i'll express mine by bumping this thread back to the top.
nuff said.
think i'll express mine by bumping this thread back to the top.
nuff said.
Here is the deal. Nobody owns their characters, equipment, or any money gathered. period.
The EULA is the binding factor in that everything in game is the sole property of SOE.
This debate has been going on for years, and if, and when, SOE decides it's in their best interest to prosecute, they will win.
I have had this discussion too many times to count with various partners in my firm. What we all find interesting is that Ebayers think that SOE Legal doesn't have access to records of any sale, made for individual profit. EULA's aren't written by idiots. They are well thought out contracts, and SOE's legal team will, at some point, enforce those contracts. In the US, sale of intellectual property not owned by an individual, is, at a minimum, fraud. Similar cases like this have been taken to trial, with punishments handed out quite often. Those punishments include severe fines, incarceration (house and prison)and the computer confiscation/banning of internet usage for up to 20 years. 10 years ago, this was a new frontier in the legal community, but not anymore. SOE's legal team is sure to have all their ducks in a row when they decide the time is right. If you think this is BS, just remember the case against Napster, and individual's prosecuted for downloading music illegally. Cases are still being tried in that supposed "grey legal area".
The EULA is the binding factor in that everything in game is the sole property of SOE.
This debate has been going on for years, and if, and when, SOE decides it's in their best interest to prosecute, they will win.
I have had this discussion too many times to count with various partners in my firm. What we all find interesting is that Ebayers think that SOE Legal doesn't have access to records of any sale, made for individual profit. EULA's aren't written by idiots. They are well thought out contracts, and SOE's legal team will, at some point, enforce those contracts. In the US, sale of intellectual property not owned by an individual, is, at a minimum, fraud. Similar cases like this have been taken to trial, with punishments handed out quite often. Those punishments include severe fines, incarceration (house and prison)and the computer confiscation/banning of internet usage for up to 20 years. 10 years ago, this was a new frontier in the legal community, but not anymore. SOE's legal team is sure to have all their ducks in a row when they decide the time is right. If you think this is BS, just remember the case against Napster, and individual's prosecuted for downloading music illegally. Cases are still being tried in that supposed "grey legal area".
Quote:
Here is the deal. Nobody owns their characters, equipment, or any money gathered. period.
The EULA is the binding factor in that everything in game is the sole property of SOE.
This debate has been going on for years, and if, and when, SOE decides it's in their best interest to prosecute, they will win.
Rubbish they would have to prosecute in the phillipeens <Sp> and i doubt very much if they could even make a case let alone win one.
I have had this discussion too many times to count with various partners in my firm, What we all find interesting is that Ebayers think that SOE Legal doesn't have access to records of any sale, made for individual profit.
Of course they don't have access to IGE's accounts, if they did that would be theft as they do not publish the details of thier trancactions.
EULA's aren't written by idiots. They are well thought out contracts, and SOE's legal team will, at some point, enforce those contracts.
No they won't, bought PP has no effect on SoE's profits and untill they do it is of not benefit to them to stop IGE and others trading.
In the US, sale of intellectual property not owned by an individual, is, at a minimum, fraud. Similar cases like this have been taken to trial, < Prove it> with punishments handed out quite often. Those punishments include severe fines, incarceration (house and prison)and the computer confiscation/banning of internet usage for up to 20 years.
How do you ban someone from using the internet? if you ban a company they just change the name and start trading again.
10 years ago, this was a new frontier in the legal community, but not anymore. SOE's legal team is sure to have all their ducks in a row when they decide the time is right.
Which they never will
If you think this is BS, just remember the case against Napster, and individual's prosecuted for downloading music illegally. Cases are still being tried in that supposed "grey legal area".
In the case of Napster they where taking direct profits away from the record companies, in the case of PP seller they are not since SoE do not directly Sell pp.
IGE also state that they sell the time taken to farm the PP not the pp itself thus removing any case SoE might have had.
The EULA is the binding factor in that everything in game is the sole property of SOE.
This debate has been going on for years, and if, and when, SOE decides it's in their best interest to prosecute, they will win.
Rubbish they would have to prosecute in the phillipeens <Sp> and i doubt very much if they could even make a case let alone win one.
I have had this discussion too many times to count with various partners in my firm, What we all find interesting is that Ebayers think that SOE Legal doesn't have access to records of any sale, made for individual profit.
Of course they don't have access to IGE's accounts, if they did that would be theft as they do not publish the details of thier trancactions.
EULA's aren't written by idiots. They are well thought out contracts, and SOE's legal team will, at some point, enforce those contracts.
No they won't, bought PP has no effect on SoE's profits and untill they do it is of not benefit to them to stop IGE and others trading.
In the US, sale of intellectual property not owned by an individual, is, at a minimum, fraud. Similar cases like this have been taken to trial, < Prove it> with punishments handed out quite often. Those punishments include severe fines, incarceration (house and prison)and the computer confiscation/banning of internet usage for up to 20 years.
How do you ban someone from using the internet? if you ban a company they just change the name and start trading again.
10 years ago, this was a new frontier in the legal community, but not anymore. SOE's legal team is sure to have all their ducks in a row when they decide the time is right.
Which they never will
If you think this is BS, just remember the case against Napster, and individual's prosecuted for downloading music illegally. Cases are still being tried in that supposed "grey legal area".
In the case of Napster they where taking direct profits away from the record companies, in the case of PP seller they are not since SoE do not directly Sell pp.
IGE also state that they sell the time taken to farm the PP not the pp itself thus removing any case SoE might have had.
25 posts
tarv
i dont believe anything you say
SOE still ouns eq and everything in the game
but i do agrea that...they will do nothing
if they wanted to they could beat down the bot peeps
theres just to many of them and what $ do they have?
i dont believe anything you say
SOE still ouns eq and everything in the game
but i do agrea that...they will do nothing
if they wanted to they could beat down the bot peeps
theres just to many of them and what $ do they have?
Quote:
i dont believe anything you say bb Thats ok i think you are talking rubbish since no MMORPG company have ever taken anyone to court all evidance is on my side.
SOE still owns eq and everything in the game No disputing that but they do not own the time it takes to play the game
but i do agrea that...they will do nothing
if they wanted to they could beat down the bot peeps No they couldn't, the Bot companies are no American companies and only exsist on the internet, they are basicly untouchable.
theres just to many of them and what $ do they have?
SOE still owns eq and everything in the game No disputing that but they do not own the time it takes to play the game
but i do agrea that...they will do nothing
if they wanted to they could beat down the bot peeps No they couldn't, the Bot companies are no American companies and only exsist on the internet, they are basicly untouchable.
theres just to many of them and what $ do they have?
perhaps no mmorpg company has taken anyone to court *yet*, but here's an interesting court precedent involving DAoC. the farmers just need to not lose their cool and sue soe, and they should be fine.
EQ: Runyaessz, 5 Monk, Phinigel
EVE: Runym/Runyn/Runyl, 43M SP each
SWTOR: Pardoric, 22 Merc, on vaca
EQ: Runyariel Varyuvantel, 65 Enchanter, Tarew Marr, on vaca
LoTRO: Runyarian, 38 hunter, Vilya, on vaca
WoW: Runyarian, 70 hunter, Muradin, on sabbatical
EQ2: Runylala, 25 Troll Bard, Qey, Blackburrow, retired
WAR: Runyael, 30 DiscO Khaine, Ironfist,retired.
CoH: Hissing Chicken, 16 Scrapper, Pinnacle, retired
EVE: Runym/Runyn/Runyl, 43M SP each
SWTOR: Pardoric, 22 Merc, on vaca
EQ: Runyariel Varyuvantel, 65 Enchanter, Tarew Marr, on vaca
LoTRO: Runyarian, 38 hunter, Vilya, on vaca
WoW: Runyarian, 70 hunter, Muradin, on sabbatical
EQ2: Runylala, 25 Troll Bard, Qey, Blackburrow, retired
WAR: Runyael, 30 DiscO Khaine, Ironfist,retired.
CoH: Hissing Chicken, 16 Scrapper, Pinnacle, retired
25 posts
Quote:
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i dont believe anything you say bb <Thats ok i think you are talking rubbish since no MMORPG company have ever taken anyone to court all evidance is on my side.>
SOE still owns eq and everything in the game <No disputing that but they do not own the time it takes to play the game>
but i do agrea that...they will do nothing
if they wanted to they could beat down the bot peeps <No they couldn't, the Bot companies are no American companies and only exsist on the internet, they are basicly untouchable.>
In the US, sale of intellectual property not owned by an individual, is, at a minimum, fraud. Similar cases like this have been taken to trial, < Prove it>
ok you asked oggmagog to prove it in your past text. All i see is you bsing i dont see any prof. Instede of just flapping your fingers typing trying to be the smart one then prove your point.
Untill them im going to beleave that the company that makes eq ouns it. Have you ever read the EULA ? That you have to agrea to each time you play saying all the **** in the game is theres?
please show me proof and ill agrea with you 100% but if its all just typing bs, thinking you so smart.
give me links please
im sorry for being so mean its just i havent known there was someone who felt so stong about SOE not ouning there game. They can delete you charictor if you dont follow the rules, so will you sue them then if that happens? Since it is your propertiy...
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i dont believe anything you say bb <Thats ok i think you are talking rubbish since no MMORPG company have ever taken anyone to court all evidance is on my side.>
SOE still owns eq and everything in the game <No disputing that but they do not own the time it takes to play the game>
but i do agrea that...they will do nothing
if they wanted to they could beat down the bot peeps <No they couldn't, the Bot companies are no American companies and only exsist on the internet, they are basicly untouchable.>
In the US, sale of intellectual property not owned by an individual, is, at a minimum, fraud. Similar cases like this have been taken to trial, < Prove it>
ok you asked oggmagog to prove it in your past text. All i see is you bsing i dont see any prof. Instede of just flapping your fingers typing trying to be the smart one then prove your point.
Untill them im going to beleave that the company that makes eq ouns it. Have you ever read the EULA ? That you have to agrea to each time you play saying all the **** in the game is theres?
please show me proof and ill agrea with you 100% but if its all just typing bs, thinking you so smart.
give me links please
im sorry for being so mean its just i havent known there was someone who felt so stong about SOE not ouning there game. They can delete you charictor if you dont follow the rules, so will you sue them then if that happens? Since it is your propertiy...
Quote:
please show me proof and ill agrea with you 100% but if its all just typing bs, thinking you so smart.
The onnus of proof is on you my friend, i can prove conclusivcely that SoE have never sued anyone for selling PP because <shock, horror> they have never sued anyone for selling PP
What more would you like me to do? It's not like i can provide links for something that has never happened can i?
the fact is SoE has never and will never enforce the EULA with regards selling PP because it is not in thier interest, it does not interfere with thier business practices and thus does not impinge on thier profits.
Sh*t i have drunk a bottle of wine and 4 bottles of beer and i still manage to make a more reasoned arguement than you, perhaps you should bite the bullit and admit you have lost this round.
25 posts
Quote:
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please show me proof and ill agrea with you 100% but if its all just typing bs, thinking you so smart.
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how can you prove something didn't happen? it is impossible other than the fact it hasn't happened?
The onnus of proof is on you my friend, i can prove conclusivcely that SoE have never sued anyone for selling PP because <shock, horror> they have never sued anyone for selling PP
What more would you like me to do? It's not like i can provide links for something that has never happened can i?
the fact is SoE has never and will never enforce the EULA with regards selling PP because it is not in thier interest, it does not interfere with thier business practices and thus does not impinge on thier profits.
Sh*t i have drunk a bottle of wine and 4 bottles of beer and i still manage to make a more reasoned arguement than you, perhaps you should bite the bullit and admit you have lost this round.
so your not really reading what i say but one sentince? And if this was a debate you souldnt just pick out one thing to say about and avoid the rest. Also you need proof, just saying your proof is that it hasnt happened whats that?
and if you look at this text and my last posts
"SOE still ouns eq and everything in the game
but i do agrea that...they will do nothing"
you said "the fact is SoE has never and will never enforce the EULA with regards selling PP because it is not in thier interest, it does not interfere with thier business practices and thus does not impinge on thier profits".
and i said earlyer "theres just to many of them and what $ do they have"
implying that i said what you stated before you. So you agrea with me so i won this debate
this ISNT A DEBATE
i DONT WANT YOU TO PROVE WETHER OR NOT SOE WILL PROSUCUTE OVER PLAT
I DO THINK THAT THEY OUN THE GAME AND ALL OF ITS PARTS ITS IN THE EULA
beacuse you are sujesting that they dont oun the game in your past posts then you change your mind to sound smart
AS i have said stop BSing and prove your orignal point
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please show me proof and ill agrea with you 100% but if its all just typing bs, thinking you so smart.
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how can you prove something didn't happen? it is impossible other than the fact it hasn't happened?
The onnus of proof is on you my friend, i can prove conclusivcely that SoE have never sued anyone for selling PP because <shock, horror> they have never sued anyone for selling PP
What more would you like me to do? It's not like i can provide links for something that has never happened can i?
the fact is SoE has never and will never enforce the EULA with regards selling PP because it is not in thier interest, it does not interfere with thier business practices and thus does not impinge on thier profits.
Sh*t i have drunk a bottle of wine and 4 bottles of beer and i still manage to make a more reasoned arguement than you, perhaps you should bite the bullit and admit you have lost this round.
so your not really reading what i say but one sentince? And if this was a debate you souldnt just pick out one thing to say about and avoid the rest. Also you need proof, just saying your proof is that it hasnt happened whats that?
and if you look at this text and my last posts
"SOE still ouns eq and everything in the game
but i do agrea that...they will do nothing"
you said "the fact is SoE has never and will never enforce the EULA with regards selling PP because it is not in thier interest, it does not interfere with thier business practices and thus does not impinge on thier profits".
and i said earlyer "theres just to many of them and what $ do they have"
implying that i said what you stated before you. So you agrea with me so i won this debate
this ISNT A DEBATE
i DONT WANT YOU TO PROVE WETHER OR NOT SOE WILL PROSUCUTE OVER PLAT
I DO THINK THAT THEY OUN THE GAME AND ALL OF ITS PARTS ITS IN THE EULA
beacuse you are sujesting that they dont oun the game in your past posts then you change your mind to sound smart
AS i have said stop BSing and prove your orignal point
38 posts
I'm only replying to the idea that just because a company is based outside of the US means that a US company can't press charges or do anything about rules/laws being broken. That doesn't even make sense. Microsoft hunts down people in Asian countries that have marketed pirated versions of their software as so have several other companies.
SOE is just too busy getting everything together to deal with something like ebay or bots right now. Give them some time and they might come to their senses and start perma banning accounts selling or botting.
Check out the FFXI or even Diablo2 forums. You'll see lots of kiddies complaining about being perma banned for using maphacks or fishbots. I do agree that they're not going to sue because of botting, that would be absurd. It's not worth pissing off a fanbase bringing kids into courts because of a bot.
Also, saying SOE doesn't own the time that has been spent to play the game also makes no sense. No one owns the time spent playing the game. If I owned the time I spent doing anything, I'd demand compensation for all the crappy movies that stole my time from me.
SOE is just too busy getting everything together to deal with something like ebay or bots right now. Give them some time and they might come to their senses and start perma banning accounts selling or botting.
Check out the FFXI or even Diablo2 forums. You'll see lots of kiddies complaining about being perma banned for using maphacks or fishbots. I do agree that they're not going to sue because of botting, that would be absurd. It's not worth pissing off a fanbase bringing kids into courts because of a bot.
Also, saying SOE doesn't own the time that has been spent to play the game also makes no sense. No one owns the time spent playing the game. If I owned the time I spent doing anything, I'd demand compensation for all the crappy movies that stole my time from me.
Quote:
beacuse you are sujesting that they dont oun the game in your past posts then you change your mind to sound smart
AS i have said stop BSing and prove your orignal point
AS i have said stop BSing and prove your orignal point
I think you missed my point refering to the owning of items in EQ.
Here is how it breaks down:
SoE own the game and everything in it.
I own my time that i use to play the game.
It takes me time to farm PP in EQ.
You pay me for the time it takes for me to farm the PP not the PP itself. Thus SoE cannot take me to court as they do not own my time.
get it? got it? good.
I'm glad we got that sorted.
38 posts
Saying that because someone is not buying the item, but merely the time doesn't make sense. Yes someone can be payed for a service. But to say that buying an item is merely buying the person's time is like saying it's ok for me to buy a child alcohol because in reality they're merely paying for the time it took me to buy it.
I legally bought the alcohol - you're legally playing the game.
I'm selling the time I spent in the store - you're selling the time you spent playing the game.
The child gets the booze - the gamer gets the items.
(granted, I know it's illegal for a child to drink alcohol, at the same time, it's considered against the rules to sell items on ebay)
There is always a way to see a loop hole in the rules, but it doesn't make the situation any better. Just because you feel like you've justified the situation doesn't make it right, nor does it mean that it fits the rules.
I legally bought the alcohol - you're legally playing the game.
I'm selling the time I spent in the store - you're selling the time you spent playing the game.
The child gets the booze - the gamer gets the items.
(granted, I know it's illegal for a child to drink alcohol, at the same time, it's considered against the rules to sell items on ebay)
There is always a way to see a loop hole in the rules, but it doesn't make the situation any better. Just because you feel like you've justified the situation doesn't make it right, nor does it mean that it fits the rules.
25 posts
thank you i agrea totally
Quote:
SoE own the game and everything in it.
I own my time that i use to play the game.
It takes me time to farm PP in EQ.
You pay me for the time it takes for me to farm the PP not the PP itself. Thus SoE cannot take me to court as they do not own my time
I own my time that i use to play the game.
It takes me time to farm PP in EQ.
You pay me for the time it takes for me to farm the PP not the PP itself. Thus SoE cannot take me to court as they do not own my time
No, you don't sell time. You sell pp, that's the whole point, an item you got by playing a game that in its totality belongs to Sony, that's all.
You sell an ingame item that belongs to Sony, which is something Sony can sue for, if they should care enough to want to sue. I do agree that it is a waste of time and money on Sony's part to sue.
Quote:
No, you don't sell time. You sell pp, that's the whole point, an item you got by playing a game that in its totality belongs to Sony, that's all.
You sell an ingame item that belongs to Sony, which is something Sony can sue for, if they should care enough to want to sue. I do agree that it is a waste of time and money on Sony's part to sue.
You sell an ingame item that belongs to Sony, which is something Sony can sue for, if they should care enough to want to sue. I do agree that it is a waste of time and money on Sony's part to sue.
It is perfectly legal to sell your time, to do anything.
Hell if you want to you can sell your time as an escort, sure everyone knows you are atually selling sex but if you put a legal disclaimer on your add stating that all the money is paying for is your time it's legal.
It is undeniable that SoE have never taken any pp sellers to court <because they would lose.>
You have a weird way of looking at things. Might even be correct,lol, come to think of it but I'ld never risk it myself.
Double post, sorry.
Edited, Fri Dec 31 18:31:37 2004 by Zieveraar
Edited, Fri Dec 31 18:31:37 2004 by Zieveraar
The point in the article that runyariel posted brings up the fact that under the eula you dont own any rights to their virtual world.So under that premise you cant use the items in "their world" to make money.None of the eula's written by the diffrent mmorphs would allow you to "borrow "their "vitual" items to make money.So all the "time" spent was the right to use said virtual to play.<the even go as far as to say how you play : i.e play nice, play fair, no harrasment ,etc etc >.You would need wriiten permision to be allowed to use their virtual items to make money.SOE and other companies will go after IGE and other same type of companies when it is profitable to them and/or to protect their product/name.
So Tarv, how do you like EQ2?
Quote:
So Tarv, how do you like EQ2?
There are a couple of areas where i think they dropped the ball but far less area than EQ1.
They managed to marginalise the EQ sellers in all bar 1 area <just sticking to topic.> and that is tradeskills, if they had not done the interdependancy people would have just done multiple tradeskills and that would avoid people charging insane prices for the intermediate items like Ink.
the combat system is fun, the tradeskill mechanics are fantastic and are a briliant idea.
Soloing is possible for all classes pre 20
Grouping is dynamic and tactics are developing in such a way that you can tell a good player from a zerger, this shows that it is a good game.
I like the class system apart from the artisan part, i like the dual city idea even though i didn't think i would, i haven't used my house very much and see little benefit from improving it. Certainly i cannot see any tangable impact on gameplay.
The Instancing of Xp zones is more than welcome and makes up for the bad lag i get in the city zones esp in the big Qeynos zone.
All in All a positive start, i think people have taken me for a PP seller in this thread because i have tried to inject a little bit of reality into the arguement rather than mindless flaming of both those selling and buying.
I have neither bought any Pp or sold any and i do not advocate doing so, it does not however stop me from understanding the reasons why people do or the motivation behind SoE's lack of action on the subject.
thanks for asking Jakstrw
You guys are certainly all over the place with this thread.. so is the linked one on sony boards..
First off.. where exactly in the EULA or any other rule book does it say that having more than one account was not allowed?... Hell sony actively changed EQ1 so you could run mutli instances on a single computer.. TO allow people to box more than one toon.
So one person runing 6 toons actively sitting at his computer and farming items or killing creatures in NO WAY is a violation of any rule what so ever.. Nor does it hurt the game.. How could it ?? How is that different from a group of six people sitting there doing exactly the same thing.
SO if doing this is wrong.. then 2 boxing is wrong.. and let me assure you that at least 30% or more of the eq2 population are 2 boxing.. 2 boxers are super common.. so are they cheating?? are they ruining the game??.. /boggle some of the logic in this thread is just moronic.
And before any one starts saying that in order to play 6 at once you HAVE to macro.. that BS.. Can you Say AUTOFIRE JOYSTICK ?? make a healer as main.. make 5 wizards.. map your autofire joystick button to your nuke.. target your healer (since in eq2 you auto assist PC's).. poof your a boxing machine.. the wizards will nuke until dead anyhting the cleric targets. No 3rd party software involved.. No breach of the EULA at all.. and all for the whoping cost of 10$ at walmart.
SO some guy pays people in china to sit and do this.. well tough crap.. its still not a violation of any rule.. and certainly not a violation of a law..
To address the fact that some of these people cant communicate.. well tough crap again.. or all of you people racist.. So they live in another country and cant speak your language.. do you speak thiers??.. I cant believe people type stuff like this.. EQ2 is an internationally offered game.. there is no gaurantee that the people who play know english.. nor is it a requirement to play the game. Nor should it be PERIOD. You inspect them and thier bio has a foriegn language in it.. OMFG lets BAN THEM.. you suck.
To address the posts about the possability that these people are 3rd world "sweatshop: workers.. LOL well having been to several 3rd world countries".. let me gaurantee you there are ALOT worse jobs than being payed to run 6 toons on eq2. /shiver they work 12 hours shifts.. Like americains dont.. hell I cant count how many 12 hr or 18hr or even at times 24hr days I have put in at my job in the past. I think its cool that this game provides some nice cushy jobs for 3rd world people.. more power to them, they can certainly use a break now and then. I would jump at the chance of someone paying me to play eq2.. It would be the best job I ever had.
Also.. HOW on earth can you think that 1 group will ever affect the econmy of the game??? All those other games you mentioned and horrid stories.. you think this crap was done by 6 characters per server?.. BS.. theres no way.. all that crap was done by random joe_bloe_01 downloading some software that botted his toon while he was at work or asleep X 1000 per server. Get real people. A games econmy is ruined by the masses not by a small few. Its ruined by 1 out of ever 2 players runing 3rd party EULA violating Software that does various things to generate ingame cash or items while they work or sleep. Its not done by some company in china trust me.. do you envision this company has 10000000 employees.. No way.. I would be surprised if it was more than 100 people.. I doubt it is even that.. and 100 people / server numbers.. it just is not enough to really effect the economy of server that has 10,000 people playing on them. 20-30 toons per server farming plat to sell is not gonna have an impact.. (And from all that I have read.. apaarently its 6 toons per server.. haha not a chance they can do squat to the value of money in game)
I saw several posts where people have harrased boxers.. wtf is that???? you guys suck and are a MUCH worse detriment to the game than any Boxer. If I want to play 6 characters in eq2 and farm things.. as long as I am not runing 3rd party software and violating the EULA.. and I am AT my keyboard then I have as much right as you do to play your one toon. Hell the entire gist of this thread is haRRASS THE BOXERS omg omg.. hOW GHEY.
So basically either you are stupid enough to actually believe playing more than one toon is a violation and you have some right to break the EULA and train / harass people who do.. or you are jelous that you dont have the hardware or the skill to do this andf you are harrassing these people out of spite. Either way you suck.
One of these posts in this thread or the one in SOE's thread had a little story of some guys training a 6 boxer who was apparntly at his KB since he went right back to retrieve his shards etc.. and they trained them 7 times.. and the peope who posted after applauded this.. again.. wtf is that?? So that must mean I can come train your group 7 times and its okay.. cause again.. 6 boxing in eq2 while at the keyboard is not a violation of the EULA. (But training the poor guy is) Niether is not being able to speak english a violation of the EULA.
Well anyways.. I know I am wasting my time even posting this.. since most of you have made up your minds already. But I couldn't resist since 90% of whats posted here is such crap.
AFK BOTTING however is a violation and can effect the economy when 1000's of people start doing it.. SOE will BAN anyone they catch doing it.. THey always have and always will. DO they catch them all??.. no.. and I doubt they can. DOes it take a 6 box to do this??.. No.. like I said before.. the economy is ruined by JO_SCHMOE_01 downloading some premade tradeskill or grind 3rd party software and pointing and clicking his way to offline plat X 1000's
Most of the crap you guys have posted is assumptions based on no facts.. the only solid fact you seem to have is that there is 1 group per server most likely played by people who dont speak english.. possably accounts that are played in shifts by different people 24/7 who are paid to do this.. Again even if all these facts are true it does not violate a single portion of the EULA at all. If someone offered you a similar salary to what you currently make to sit in an office and play EQ2 are you seriously telling me you wouldnt? Heh.. I bet half of you would in a heartbeat.
To Address the Whole EBAY thing..
Well.. you make assumptions that this one set of 6 boxers is farming to sell plat.. I agree your probably right. But there no way you can prove it.. and even if you can.. from what I understand there is nothing Legally that SOE can do about this.. (Other than excercise thier right to ban people for any reason they see fit, as stated in the EULA.. basically the old right to refuse service to anyone they want) The "I am selling the time it took me to farm this plat or item" is apparently a valid way to sell ingame currency and theres nothing that can be done about it.. (again other than a ban) Time is a valid commodity.. I noticed some one posted "You cant sell time cause its not a real thing blah blah or something to that effect..) Haw.. what crap.. what do you think your job is? /boggle what does the company pay you for?.. it pays you for your time. ANYONE who works is basically getting paid for the time it takes them to do the job. Bottom line is there is a market for this in game currency.. and nothing you can do will ever stop this.. nothing sony can do will ever stop it either.. at most if sony tried to do anything activly it would just drive it underground and hike the US$ price per gold way up... BUT guess what!!!! that 1 6box everyone is whineing about?.. theres no way 6 toons could ever supply the amount of gold or plat that gets sold on each server.. even runing 24/7.. again its jo schmoe doing that.. its tons of normal non boxing people selling off xtra cash to the IGE and all the other companies who buy/sell plat. DOEs the actual act of selling PLAT or items affect the ingame economy??>... not in the slightest.. I dont know where you get that crap from either.. EBAY items EBAY plat doesnt do squat to economy.. it in itself does not introduce any new currency nor does it devalue whats present.. it simple redistributes it from seller to buyer.. its those 1000000's of people afk botting that screws it up.
OKay im done.. you may not agree with me.. but guess what!! thE What I posted is all 100% true..
TO sum it up..
Playing more than 1 toon is allowed.. even ecouraged by SOE. AS long as you dont use 3rd party software and are at the keyboard.
EBaying plat sucks but it exists and theres not a damn thing you can do about it.
Harrassing players will only wind up getting you banned. I personally will laugh my a$$ off and drink a beer in toast when you get your linching party together and hunt down this 6 box who is following the rules.. train him harrass him and get yourselves banned.
First off.. where exactly in the EULA or any other rule book does it say that having more than one account was not allowed?... Hell sony actively changed EQ1 so you could run mutli instances on a single computer.. TO allow people to box more than one toon.
So one person runing 6 toons actively sitting at his computer and farming items or killing creatures in NO WAY is a violation of any rule what so ever.. Nor does it hurt the game.. How could it ?? How is that different from a group of six people sitting there doing exactly the same thing.
SO if doing this is wrong.. then 2 boxing is wrong.. and let me assure you that at least 30% or more of the eq2 population are 2 boxing.. 2 boxers are super common.. so are they cheating?? are they ruining the game??.. /boggle some of the logic in this thread is just moronic.
And before any one starts saying that in order to play 6 at once you HAVE to macro.. that BS.. Can you Say AUTOFIRE JOYSTICK ?? make a healer as main.. make 5 wizards.. map your autofire joystick button to your nuke.. target your healer (since in eq2 you auto assist PC's).. poof your a boxing machine.. the wizards will nuke until dead anyhting the cleric targets. No 3rd party software involved.. No breach of the EULA at all.. and all for the whoping cost of 10$ at walmart.
SO some guy pays people in china to sit and do this.. well tough crap.. its still not a violation of any rule.. and certainly not a violation of a law..
To address the fact that some of these people cant communicate.. well tough crap again.. or all of you people racist.. So they live in another country and cant speak your language.. do you speak thiers??.. I cant believe people type stuff like this.. EQ2 is an internationally offered game.. there is no gaurantee that the people who play know english.. nor is it a requirement to play the game. Nor should it be PERIOD. You inspect them and thier bio has a foriegn language in it.. OMFG lets BAN THEM.. you suck.
To address the posts about the possability that these people are 3rd world "sweatshop: workers.. LOL well having been to several 3rd world countries".. let me gaurantee you there are ALOT worse jobs than being payed to run 6 toons on eq2. /shiver they work 12 hours shifts.. Like americains dont.. hell I cant count how many 12 hr or 18hr or even at times 24hr days I have put in at my job in the past. I think its cool that this game provides some nice cushy jobs for 3rd world people.. more power to them, they can certainly use a break now and then. I would jump at the chance of someone paying me to play eq2.. It would be the best job I ever had.
Also.. HOW on earth can you think that 1 group will ever affect the econmy of the game??? All those other games you mentioned and horrid stories.. you think this crap was done by 6 characters per server?.. BS.. theres no way.. all that crap was done by random joe_bloe_01 downloading some software that botted his toon while he was at work or asleep X 1000 per server. Get real people. A games econmy is ruined by the masses not by a small few. Its ruined by 1 out of ever 2 players runing 3rd party EULA violating Software that does various things to generate ingame cash or items while they work or sleep. Its not done by some company in china trust me.. do you envision this company has 10000000 employees.. No way.. I would be surprised if it was more than 100 people.. I doubt it is even that.. and 100 people / server numbers.. it just is not enough to really effect the economy of server that has 10,000 people playing on them. 20-30 toons per server farming plat to sell is not gonna have an impact.. (And from all that I have read.. apaarently its 6 toons per server.. haha not a chance they can do squat to the value of money in game)
I saw several posts where people have harrased boxers.. wtf is that???? you guys suck and are a MUCH worse detriment to the game than any Boxer. If I want to play 6 characters in eq2 and farm things.. as long as I am not runing 3rd party software and violating the EULA.. and I am AT my keyboard then I have as much right as you do to play your one toon. Hell the entire gist of this thread is haRRASS THE BOXERS omg omg.. hOW GHEY.
So basically either you are stupid enough to actually believe playing more than one toon is a violation and you have some right to break the EULA and train / harass people who do.. or you are jelous that you dont have the hardware or the skill to do this andf you are harrassing these people out of spite. Either way you suck.
One of these posts in this thread or the one in SOE's thread had a little story of some guys training a 6 boxer who was apparntly at his KB since he went right back to retrieve his shards etc.. and they trained them 7 times.. and the peope who posted after applauded this.. again.. wtf is that?? So that must mean I can come train your group 7 times and its okay.. cause again.. 6 boxing in eq2 while at the keyboard is not a violation of the EULA. (But training the poor guy is) Niether is not being able to speak english a violation of the EULA.
Well anyways.. I know I am wasting my time even posting this.. since most of you have made up your minds already. But I couldn't resist since 90% of whats posted here is such crap.
AFK BOTTING however is a violation and can effect the economy when 1000's of people start doing it.. SOE will BAN anyone they catch doing it.. THey always have and always will. DO they catch them all??.. no.. and I doubt they can. DOes it take a 6 box to do this??.. No.. like I said before.. the economy is ruined by JO_SCHMOE_01 downloading some premade tradeskill or grind 3rd party software and pointing and clicking his way to offline plat X 1000's
Most of the crap you guys have posted is assumptions based on no facts.. the only solid fact you seem to have is that there is 1 group per server most likely played by people who dont speak english.. possably accounts that are played in shifts by different people 24/7 who are paid to do this.. Again even if all these facts are true it does not violate a single portion of the EULA at all. If someone offered you a similar salary to what you currently make to sit in an office and play EQ2 are you seriously telling me you wouldnt? Heh.. I bet half of you would in a heartbeat.
To Address the Whole EBAY thing..
Well.. you make assumptions that this one set of 6 boxers is farming to sell plat.. I agree your probably right. But there no way you can prove it.. and even if you can.. from what I understand there is nothing Legally that SOE can do about this.. (Other than excercise thier right to ban people for any reason they see fit, as stated in the EULA.. basically the old right to refuse service to anyone they want) The "I am selling the time it took me to farm this plat or item" is apparently a valid way to sell ingame currency and theres nothing that can be done about it.. (again other than a ban) Time is a valid commodity.. I noticed some one posted "You cant sell time cause its not a real thing blah blah or something to that effect..) Haw.. what crap.. what do you think your job is? /boggle what does the company pay you for?.. it pays you for your time. ANYONE who works is basically getting paid for the time it takes them to do the job. Bottom line is there is a market for this in game currency.. and nothing you can do will ever stop this.. nothing sony can do will ever stop it either.. at most if sony tried to do anything activly it would just drive it underground and hike the US$ price per gold way up... BUT guess what!!!! that 1 6box everyone is whineing about?.. theres no way 6 toons could ever supply the amount of gold or plat that gets sold on each server.. even runing 24/7.. again its jo schmoe doing that.. its tons of normal non boxing people selling off xtra cash to the IGE and all the other companies who buy/sell plat. DOEs the actual act of selling PLAT or items affect the ingame economy??>... not in the slightest.. I dont know where you get that crap from either.. EBAY items EBAY plat doesnt do squat to economy.. it in itself does not introduce any new currency nor does it devalue whats present.. it simple redistributes it from seller to buyer.. its those 1000000's of people afk botting that screws it up.
OKay im done.. you may not agree with me.. but guess what!! thE What I posted is all 100% true..
TO sum it up..
Playing more than 1 toon is allowed.. even ecouraged by SOE. AS long as you dont use 3rd party software and are at the keyboard.
EBaying plat sucks but it exists and theres not a damn thing you can do about it.
Harrassing players will only wind up getting you banned. I personally will laugh my a$$ off and drink a beer in toast when you get your linching party together and hunt down this 6 box who is following the rules.. train him harrass him and get yourselves banned.
Oh and BTW.. I forgot to put this above.. but lets take a look at another assumption this whole thread takes..
Is EBAYing PLAT a violation of the EULA?.. all of you assume it is.. well Guess what.. IT IS NOT! Sony doesnt like that people do.. but it does NOT violate the EULA. I will give a simple example:
you tell you brother "Hey ill give ya 10 dollars if you play my toon and get me some xp and plats for 2 hours!!"
Brother plays toon.. xps for 2 hours and loots the crap on your toon.. No violation of the EULA.. No laws broken.
Now what if you tell a stranger to do this??.. or a Powerlevling company.. have you now broken the rules?? haha not one bit. You are paying some one for thier time.
Example 2:
YOu and your brother both play eq2.. your brother plays more and his toon is level 40.. yours is level 20... He can play for a few hours and make 10 gold NP.. you might make 1 gold if your lucky in 2 hours..
YOu tell your brother hey!! I will pay you 10 dollars if you will log on your toon and farm 10 gold and give it to me!!
Broken EULA?? nope!! get real. Your paying him 10 bucks for the time he spent making the money.
SO you do this with a stranger??.. all the sudden your breaking rules.. again.. nope.
And there is no court in the land that would support sony litigation of people who sell the time they spend doing anything to someone else. It would be like microsoft trying to sue your employer because they paid you for 8 hours of wordproccessing using MS office.
Can sony ban them because they dont like people who play and farm and sell plat? sure!!!
Can sony ban you because your skin is brown? SURE!!!!!
Can sony Ban you because you Nose is to big? SURE!!!
They can ban anyone they want without any reason at all. They cannot do anything to you in the court of law in the USA for you charging someone a fee for the hours you spent playing a game. And therin LIES the loophole allowing people to sell plat on ebay and player auctions and tons of other sites and get away with it.
Can sony pose as a buyer on one of these sites and get the toon name and buy from them then ban them?.. Sure!! because they dont need a reason to ban you. HOWEVER all of these sites specifically have thier own EULA and rules that you agree to by using the service!! and within these rules it prohibits sony employee's from using thier service as a name gathering instrument to ban people!.. Guess what!! The courts WILL uphold because sony IS violating the agreed upon rules.. mmmmm I could use a few million in a settlement couldnt you!! thats why they dont do that. Just like thier EULA says you cannot copy thier software and sell it.. the EULA of the sites that sell plat says sony cant use the service for that purpose.
Take some time.. read a little.. get your facts straight. oh wait never mind!!! lets just post a bunch of crap that we have no clue about.. flame people.. gather up a possee... FInd us a likely scapegoat guilty or not.. hmm maybe someone who doesn't speak english and cant defend himself.. and kill him! it is the americian way after all!
Edited, Sun Jan 2 04:47:47 2005 by sawbonezvaz
Is EBAYing PLAT a violation of the EULA?.. all of you assume it is.. well Guess what.. IT IS NOT! Sony doesnt like that people do.. but it does NOT violate the EULA. I will give a simple example:
you tell you brother "Hey ill give ya 10 dollars if you play my toon and get me some xp and plats for 2 hours!!"
Brother plays toon.. xps for 2 hours and loots the crap on your toon.. No violation of the EULA.. No laws broken.
Now what if you tell a stranger to do this??.. or a Powerlevling company.. have you now broken the rules?? haha not one bit. You are paying some one for thier time.
Example 2:
YOu and your brother both play eq2.. your brother plays more and his toon is level 40.. yours is level 20... He can play for a few hours and make 10 gold NP.. you might make 1 gold if your lucky in 2 hours..
YOu tell your brother hey!! I will pay you 10 dollars if you will log on your toon and farm 10 gold and give it to me!!
Broken EULA?? nope!! get real. Your paying him 10 bucks for the time he spent making the money.
SO you do this with a stranger??.. all the sudden your breaking rules.. again.. nope.
And there is no court in the land that would support sony litigation of people who sell the time they spend doing anything to someone else. It would be like microsoft trying to sue your employer because they paid you for 8 hours of wordproccessing using MS office.
Can sony ban them because they dont like people who play and farm and sell plat? sure!!!
Can sony ban you because your skin is brown? SURE!!!!!
Can sony Ban you because you Nose is to big? SURE!!!
They can ban anyone they want without any reason at all. They cannot do anything to you in the court of law in the USA for you charging someone a fee for the hours you spent playing a game. And therin LIES the loophole allowing people to sell plat on ebay and player auctions and tons of other sites and get away with it.
Can sony pose as a buyer on one of these sites and get the toon name and buy from them then ban them?.. Sure!! because they dont need a reason to ban you. HOWEVER all of these sites specifically have thier own EULA and rules that you agree to by using the service!! and within these rules it prohibits sony employee's from using thier service as a name gathering instrument to ban people!.. Guess what!! The courts WILL uphold because sony IS violating the agreed upon rules.. mmmmm I could use a few million in a settlement couldnt you!! thats why they dont do that. Just like thier EULA says you cannot copy thier software and sell it.. the EULA of the sites that sell plat says sony cant use the service for that purpose.
Take some time.. read a little.. get your facts straight. oh wait never mind!!! lets just post a bunch of crap that we have no clue about.. flame people.. gather up a possee... FInd us a likely scapegoat guilty or not.. hmm maybe someone who doesn't speak english and cant defend himself.. and kill him! it is the americian way after all!
Edited, Sun Jan 2 04:47:47 2005 by sawbonezvaz
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