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Well for those freaking out because people uses, there instead of their, then instead of than, etc
Maybe you should wonder sometimes if english is their primary languages, i know for a fact that alot of people comes from outside USA and other english using country and they master a second language much better than most american if they had to play a mmorpg in another language.
Think about it a second even if you do use lets say french or spanish everynow and then, in a mmorpg you dont have time to think, or you will be answering after seven other replies have passed. Those people need to think in english which is pretty hard to master if its not a language you are using daily or even weekly.
It happens to me i am sure it happens alot, but hey i can speak 4 languages how many can you speak ? You want a text without a single mistake, learn french and ill send you one.
Now for people who are born english, well there is no excuse and for all you english people, rouge = red ITS ROGUE :)
Maybe you should wonder sometimes if english is their primary languages, i know for a fact that alot of people comes from outside USA and other english using country and they master a second language much better than most american if they had to play a mmorpg in another language.
Think about it a second even if you do use lets say french or spanish everynow and then, in a mmorpg you dont have time to think, or you will be answering after seven other replies have passed. Those people need to think in english which is pretty hard to master if its not a language you are using daily or even weekly.
It happens to me i am sure it happens alot, but hey i can speak 4 languages how many can you speak ? You want a text without a single mistake, learn french and ill send you one.
Now for people who are born english, well there is no excuse and for all you english people, rouge = red ITS ROGUE :)
I think that, within the context of this (or any other) game, abbreviations, slang or- yes- dood-speeke- aren't necessarily a bad thing. If a mob pops behind my rather fragile Necromancer and looks like it hasn't eaten well in a while, I think I'd rather read "POP behind u...move NOW" than "Sorry to trouble you, Lord Necromancer, but there seems to be a very angry owlbear which has suddenly appeared, unknownst to you, directly behind you and, by the look of it salivating, appears to plan on doing you grave bodily harm."
As for people for whom English is a second (or third or whatever) language, often I find them to be capable of speaking (writing) English better than many native Engish-speakers. Why? Well, when I took German back in High School, the teacher tried her best to teach us the most correct useage of the language as she could. Assuming that schools elsewhere emply basically the same strategery, then the students are likely capable of being quite precise in their useage of English. Contrast that to people who passively pick up English from television, movies and music. I would suspect that those people would resort to slang and whatever their cersion of dood-speeke might be because they don't know any better.
As for people for whom English is a second (or third or whatever) language, often I find them to be capable of speaking (writing) English better than many native Engish-speakers. Why? Well, when I took German back in High School, the teacher tried her best to teach us the most correct useage of the language as she could. Assuming that schools elsewhere emply basically the same strategery, then the students are likely capable of being quite precise in their useage of English. Contrast that to people who passively pick up English from television, movies and music. I would suspect that those people would resort to slang and whatever their cersion of dood-speeke might be because they don't know any better.
Quote:
Why would you care if he cared that you cared for why he cared?
why do YOU care
Adiemus wrote:
If a mob pops behind my rather fragile Necromancer and looks like it hasn't eaten well in a while, I think I'd rather read "POP behind u...move NOW" than "Sorry to trouble you, Lord Necromancer, but there seems to be a very angry owlbear which has suddenly appeared, unknownst to you, directly behind you and, by the look of it salivating, appears to plan on doing you grave bodily harm."
/sniggle
well put!
and otherwise, well said, as well :).
i find it generally counter-productive to advise someone of ill-used grammar, or bad use of wording, or even poor spelling, in game, but then, i read fluent typo. or was that typographical error?
i *will* ask politely for someone to punch the caps lock key just once more, though :).
i have had numerous friends, from numerous countries, who, together, speak numerous languages. (i've also spoken languages other than english myself, but am out of practice enough to not claim any proficiencies therein anymore.) i can usually tell when errors are made because english is *not* the first language, since, for the most part, the grammar patterns change.
this means that i can also tell when the errors are simply bad grammar, or a lack of knack for spelling. it bothers me, but only because i received a good deal of training in proof-reading at a young age, and, hence, my mental spell- and grammar-checker is always on, so i must filter all of that as well.
do i point it out? not often at all. when i do, it's to a friend that's usually asked me to do so when it happens, or to prevent that friend from being sniggled at later on for the same thing.
d00dspeak, however, tends to really annoy me. perhaps because i remember its origin ... it's degraded considerably since then :x. i'm not even sure those using it now have any idea why it evolved ;). ("now" meaning the present day, not meaning this thread :x.)
but, no, i think rather that it's because, many times if someone *insists* on using it in circles where it's not necessarily a) welcome, or b)readable to the audience being subjected to it, more often than not, the person attempting to use it has a preoccupation with the measuring tape, and likely deserves one with a hand-carved case.
yes, that's an over-generalization, and, yes, i realize that there are exceptions, and, yes, i've dear friends in those exceptions.
there... i think that's enough flame retardant ;).
EQ: Runyaessz, 5 Monk, Phinigel
EVE: Runym/Runyn/Runyl, 43M SP each
SWTOR: Pardoric, 22 Merc, on vaca
EQ: Runyariel Varyuvantel, 65 Enchanter, Tarew Marr, on vaca
LoTRO: Runyarian, 38 hunter, Vilya, on vaca
WoW: Runyarian, 70 hunter, Muradin, on sabbatical
EQ2: Runylala, 25 Troll Bard, Qey, Blackburrow, retired
WAR: Runyael, 30 DiscO Khaine, Ironfist,retired.
CoH: Hissing Chicken, 16 Scrapper, Pinnacle, retired
EVE: Runym/Runyn/Runyl, 43M SP each
SWTOR: Pardoric, 22 Merc, on vaca
EQ: Runyariel Varyuvantel, 65 Enchanter, Tarew Marr, on vaca
LoTRO: Runyarian, 38 hunter, Vilya, on vaca
WoW: Runyarian, 70 hunter, Muradin, on sabbatical
EQ2: Runylala, 25 Troll Bard, Qey, Blackburrow, retired
WAR: Runyael, 30 DiscO Khaine, Ironfist,retired.
CoH: Hissing Chicken, 16 Scrapper, Pinnacle, retired
Scholar
32 posts
Ahhh, the eternal battle between 'dood' speak and proper english.
I, for one, despise trying to read something when the person who wrote it shortened every single word that they possibly could.
But I don't mind when its used every once in a while.
For example, I don't mind people saying 'plz', 'ty', 'tks', 'gratz', or similar ones to this.
What also annoys me is the use of the word 'effect'....
People use this instead of 'affect' and it really irks me.
Just one of my pet peeves.... (Along with incorrect spelling.)
And typo's don't bother me. I am proficient in typonese (And all my friends know that I typo alot...)
I, for one, despise trying to read something when the person who wrote it shortened every single word that they possibly could.
But I don't mind when its used every once in a while.
For example, I don't mind people saying 'plz', 'ty', 'tks', 'gratz', or similar ones to this.
What also annoys me is the use of the word 'effect'....
People use this instead of 'affect' and it really irks me.
Just one of my pet peeves.... (Along with incorrect spelling.)
And typo's don't bother me. I am proficient in typonese (And all my friends know that I typo alot...)
just another quick thought, there is usually a clear difference between a typo, and bad spelling. i.e. thoguh = typo; intelajent = bad spelling.
Quote:
Well for those freaking out because people uses, there instead of their, then instead of than, etc
Maybe you should wonder sometimes if english is their primary languages, i know for a fact that alot of people comes from outside USA and other english using country and they master a second language much better than most american if they had to play a mmorpg in another language.
Maybe you should wonder sometimes if english is their primary languages, i know for a fact that alot of people comes from outside USA and other english using country and they master a second language much better than most american if they had to play a mmorpg in another language.
Many people simply don't know the difference, and don't care to. I would wager a goodly sum that if I asked 20 random "average" people under the age of 30 to define the following words:
synonym
homonym
antonym
verb
adverb
adjective
noun
At least 15 of them would be stumped on over half of them. My point here is that there are too many people who don't even know some of the basic building blocks of the english language.
The bottom line is this. Everyone is free to abbreviate all they like, use d00D speak, refuse to punctuate or capitalize. It's our right. Those of us on the receiving end of that type of written communication, however, just may form the opinion that the person is fairly dim.
Now, if a person speaks simply for the sheer pleasure of hearing themself speak, the opinion of others shouldn't matter one whit. But do recognize that it is our human nature to find ways to categorize and pigeonhole everyone we meet.
What clues are we handing out?
Scholar
25 posts
Yanari understood what I was trying to say in my post on the previous page.
Kids today are just not learning the basics of the english written language. As an aside, I know what the definition and purpose of each of those words Yanari mentioned. How many of you replying to this thread do? If you don't know even two of them, then you have validated this entire thread and the point the original poster was trying to make.
Kids today are just not learning the basics of the english written language. As an aside, I know what the definition and purpose of each of those words Yanari mentioned. How many of you replying to this thread do? If you don't know even two of them, then you have validated this entire thread and the point the original poster was trying to make.
16 posts
As one of the 'old guys', though not strictly true in both instances, I too have a problem with the so-call 'Dood' speak. It's not that I'm averse to people using abbreviations, especially when having to type to have a conversation, it's when they think it's so clever to say something in dood when they're not even sure if the person receiving it will understand.
Now, it may just be me but, when I received a tell that said
"yr u l8?", I was quite confused for two reasons:
1) At first glance it looked like the person was asking me if I was eighteen
2) I didn't even know the person who was speaking to me.
For those like me, who like correct usage but are aware of the shorthands that are now applied, it's a case of live and let live. However, I would like to remind those who delight in this shorthand, that they were taught correct usage at school for a reason. The correct usage ( or if you prefer, the more formal type) is there for the understandable communication of ideas between those conversant with that language even those who may have a different language as their mother tongue.
So, if you're going to use slang or shorthand at least make sure that the recipient will appreciate it. If not, play safe and use the abbreviations laid down in the EQ1/EQ2 manuals such as 'omw', 'lol', 'rofl' etc.
On a side note, to the poster above who said he got annoyed when people used orientated instead of oriented. May I remind him that 'orientated' is the original English version of the word which was then contracted in the New World to leave out the 'a'. Another example of this would be 'colour' ( English) or 'color' ( American).
Now, it may just be me but, when I received a tell that said
"yr u l8?", I was quite confused for two reasons:
1) At first glance it looked like the person was asking me if I was eighteen
2) I didn't even know the person who was speaking to me.
For those like me, who like correct usage but are aware of the shorthands that are now applied, it's a case of live and let live. However, I would like to remind those who delight in this shorthand, that they were taught correct usage at school for a reason. The correct usage ( or if you prefer, the more formal type) is there for the understandable communication of ideas between those conversant with that language even those who may have a different language as their mother tongue.
So, if you're going to use slang or shorthand at least make sure that the recipient will appreciate it. If not, play safe and use the abbreviations laid down in the EQ1/EQ2 manuals such as 'omw', 'lol', 'rofl' etc.
On a side note, to the poster above who said he got annoyed when people used orientated instead of oriented. May I remind him that 'orientated' is the original English version of the word which was then contracted in the New World to leave out the 'a'. Another example of this would be 'colour' ( English) or 'color' ( American).
Quote:
"yr u l8?",
I read this to say "Why are you 18?", which had it been sent to me would have been an easy response....."I wish I was 18 again!!!"
Every generation has there own slang terms, Say "groovy" to a kid today, and they would have no clue what you meant. This current generation is one brought up on the computer (unlike the older generation)....where we only used verbal exchanges, this new generation uses a higher percentage of typed speach.....it only makes sense that this would breed it's own slang.
Quote:
"yr u l8?"
I read that as "Why are you late?". I neither know nor care what it was intended to mean but if two consecutive posters can have different interpretations it is evidently a pretty poor means of communication.
Wherever I go - there I am.
I have no problem with game related lingo and abbreviations. Sometimes they are necessary, since the pace of the game can be moving fast, and you need to say something quickly.
But when you're not fighting, or there's downtime, there's no reason to not type out most things. It's not that I'm some kind of grammar ****, I just want to be able to understand what's being said to me.
But when you're not fighting, or there's downtime, there's no reason to not type out most things. It's not that I'm some kind of grammar ****, I just want to be able to understand what's being said to me.
9 posts
I am one of those who has to agree with all 3 sides of this here coin.
Heads: After staring at a screen for a few hours, sometimes the abbreviations are a kindness, as it reduces the number of fuzzy pixel groups I have to try to focus on - not to mention the whole ravenous bugbear thing (too freakin' funny!) There are also some things you simply cannot say to just anyone on the game, as some are quite young...
THAT said - and here we move to Tails, WTF (/grin) does l33t mean??? I have to guess the threes represent E's, so that it becomes l-ee-t... and from there I get elite. Is that right? And if so... WHY???
Now on to the third side of the coin - learning disorders, dyslexia and whatnot. My brother-in-law, while very eloquent in his speech, cannot even read a Harry Potter novel because the he has to spend so much time trying to read through his own dyslexia that it kills the enjoyment of it. He also has a slight learning disorder when it comes to symbolics (math, written language, etc.) but if you were to meet him, or even train him for a job where reading wasn't critical, you would never know he had any of those difficulties. How can you know if the person on the other side of the monitor (figuratively) has that sort of difficulty?
You cannot. Pure and simple. This goes both ways. There are certain abbreviations he would use like esp. (as do I), wtf, omg (actually, knowing him it would be omfg), yadda... At the same time though, he could be confused by a lot of the common abbs. in use - like that l33t thing, or in the case of dyslexia d00dspeak COULD be p00psqueak, because the mind will try to add (or remove) letters in order to turn those symbols into meaning.
Finally, there are other factors to weigh in... humor (actually typing a'ight, y'alls and troo dat!), new to the language and learning it socially (I have heard a grilled chickenbreast sandwich being called back as a chickenboob sandwich; I choked on my soda - and lemme tell you, that ain't nearly as pleasant as milk coming out the nose!) and also conversational English, with all the little - but critical - semantic differences from PROPER english.
I guess it amounts to the effort put into the communication of idears... if you can make yerself understood quickly and get the right mood across by abbreviating, more power to ya. If we need to 'decode' what you say, that is not effective communication...
'Nuff said :) I really didn't expect to type out a discertation on this.
Edit: clarified 'learning it socially'
Edited, Thu Dec 23 12:46:51 2004 by ValyoodKustumur
Heads: After staring at a screen for a few hours, sometimes the abbreviations are a kindness, as it reduces the number of fuzzy pixel groups I have to try to focus on - not to mention the whole ravenous bugbear thing (too freakin' funny!) There are also some things you simply cannot say to just anyone on the game, as some are quite young...
THAT said - and here we move to Tails, WTF (/grin) does l33t mean??? I have to guess the threes represent E's, so that it becomes l-ee-t... and from there I get elite. Is that right? And if so... WHY???
Now on to the third side of the coin - learning disorders, dyslexia and whatnot. My brother-in-law, while very eloquent in his speech, cannot even read a Harry Potter novel because the he has to spend so much time trying to read through his own dyslexia that it kills the enjoyment of it. He also has a slight learning disorder when it comes to symbolics (math, written language, etc.) but if you were to meet him, or even train him for a job where reading wasn't critical, you would never know he had any of those difficulties. How can you know if the person on the other side of the monitor (figuratively) has that sort of difficulty?
You cannot. Pure and simple. This goes both ways. There are certain abbreviations he would use like esp. (as do I), wtf, omg (actually, knowing him it would be omfg), yadda... At the same time though, he could be confused by a lot of the common abbs. in use - like that l33t thing, or in the case of dyslexia d00dspeak COULD be p00psqueak, because the mind will try to add (or remove) letters in order to turn those symbols into meaning.
Finally, there are other factors to weigh in... humor (actually typing a'ight, y'alls and troo dat!), new to the language and learning it socially (I have heard a grilled chickenbreast sandwich being called back as a chickenboob sandwich; I choked on my soda - and lemme tell you, that ain't nearly as pleasant as milk coming out the nose!) and also conversational English, with all the little - but critical - semantic differences from PROPER english.
I guess it amounts to the effort put into the communication of idears... if you can make yerself understood quickly and get the right mood across by abbreviating, more power to ya. If we need to 'decode' what you say, that is not effective communication...
'Nuff said :) I really didn't expect to type out a discertation on this.
Edit: clarified 'learning it socially'
Edited, Thu Dec 23 12:46:51 2004 by ValyoodKustumur
I'll take a stab at explaining the meaning of 'elite' in this context.
If you're old enough, you might know what 'Hip' meant. It meant one who is attuned to what is going on, to be aware. To be 'hip' you had to know what was 'in' (popular) as well as what was 'out' (not popular), whether it had to do with music, television, politics, speech or clothing or whatever else you came into contact with during the day.
" 'leets" are just the latest folks to be decendants of those who were 'Hip'. They have their own language (doodzorspeek) and, for good or bad, tend to gravitate towards those things techological- like computer games, for instance. To be 'leet is to be able to decipher their gibberish abbreviations and reply in kind and always (a real misnomer here) 'properly'.
Now, on to another point. If someone has a legitimate learning disability- not this ADHD crap- like dyslexia, then I don't think any reasonable person would fault them for writing improperly. I certainly wouldn't. Judging by what you said about your brother's speech capability, it's obvious that he is intellegent and knows the difference between useful and proper language shortcuts and plain laziness. It's just that his brain is wired differently so that the written word looks different to him than to other people who aren't dyslexic. Remind him that dyslexia, while an obstacle, doesn't preclude greatness and accomplishment: among other famous and accomplished people, General George Patton was dyslexic and he was able to, to say the least, overcome that disability.
If you're old enough, you might know what 'Hip' meant. It meant one who is attuned to what is going on, to be aware. To be 'hip' you had to know what was 'in' (popular) as well as what was 'out' (not popular), whether it had to do with music, television, politics, speech or clothing or whatever else you came into contact with during the day.
" 'leets" are just the latest folks to be decendants of those who were 'Hip'. They have their own language (doodzorspeek) and, for good or bad, tend to gravitate towards those things techological- like computer games, for instance. To be 'leet is to be able to decipher their gibberish abbreviations and reply in kind and always (a real misnomer here) 'properly'.
Now, on to another point. If someone has a legitimate learning disability- not this ADHD crap- like dyslexia, then I don't think any reasonable person would fault them for writing improperly. I certainly wouldn't. Judging by what you said about your brother's speech capability, it's obvious that he is intellegent and knows the difference between useful and proper language shortcuts and plain laziness. It's just that his brain is wired differently so that the written word looks different to him than to other people who aren't dyslexic. Remind him that dyslexia, while an obstacle, doesn't preclude greatness and accomplishment: among other famous and accomplished people, General George Patton was dyslexic and he was able to, to say the least, overcome that disability.
Eats, Shoots and Leaves
I think the world would be a better place if all native English speakers bought and read this book.
Thank you very much!
Minky
I think the world would be a better place if all native English speakers bought and read this book.
Thank you very much!
Minky
I love the fact that everyone who post in this topic tries using words that they normally wouldn't. You'll also notice typical spelling errors where they've attempted to use a word that was not known in their (yes it's not there or they're) vocabulary... Hilarious. Yes, we ARE the last of a dying breed. I gave up trying to point out other people's mistakes, only because my attempts were thwarted by others interfering =)(flaming me for flaming their grammar). So.. uhh.. good job on the much needed topic of literacy. You're absolutely right.
""Sorry to trouble you, Lord Necromancer, but there seems to be a very angry owlbear which has suddenly appeared, unknownst to you, directly behind you and, by the look of it salivating, appears to plan on doing you grave bodily harm.""
That was just funny.
Edited, Fri Dec 24 06:50:57 2004 by Kensi
""Sorry to trouble you, Lord Necromancer, but there seems to be a very angry owlbear which has suddenly appeared, unknownst to you, directly behind you and, by the look of it salivating, appears to plan on doing you grave bodily harm.""
That was just funny.
Edited, Fri Dec 24 06:50:57 2004 by Kensi
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