Woot first subject 8o)
Ok heres the deal, i got my first all singing and dancing grind group today <12 crusader> i was more than i little confused with the amount of aggro bouncing that was occuring.
Is there a better way of keeping the mobs away from the healer than just smacking taunt when it refreshes?
I got pretty good at aggro comntrol in EQ1 but there doesn't seem to be the same emphasis from what i saw.
any help would be gratefully received
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Taunt and healing.Follow
I'm a warrior, and I haven't had that problem yet.. maybe it's because my new techniques have built in hate increasers too. /shrug.
26 posts
In my relatively short time spent in this game, it seems that main tank types do not taunt as well as dps/tank hybrids. It seems that as a bruiser, its much easier to gain aggro from mobs using a combination of taunt, slap, and rapid strike.
Haha.. I'm only 17. I get "Taunting swing" name explains it all . "Hold the line" Each hit I successfully land gains the aggro of ALL mobs in encounter. "Concussion" hit that does decent damage and drains power (has to get some aggro). "Assault" Hit ALL mobs around me (gets hate). Not to mention regular taunt and AoE taunt. You must be playing w/some terrible warriors if a paladin or sk can take hate.
Rallying Cry works as well as SHout to draw aggro to yourself as well. I think Assault, which I totally neglected, would be a good thing to implement. I do notice that mobs, if they are hit at least once will tend to stick to you better.
Edited, Wed Dec 15 13:04:44 2004 by DaxilS
Edited, Wed Dec 15 13:04:44 2004 by DaxilS
Also, don't forget your group buffs! They seem to add hate also. Cast them early in the fight, and refresh when they grey...they add hate even if you already have the buff...
Hmm, I only got limited experience with grouping, soloed my way to lvl 18 mostly as Crusader.
Yet, when in a group, and tanking, I never had that hard a time to keep aggro(yet). If I had to pull, I used the Righteous Anger spell as it has a much larger range, then keep aggro (or at least try to) by instantly using either taunt or shout (depending on solo or group and possible adds, if more than one and possibility of adds then Assault spell does the trick)
Otherwise it's the matter of pulling the mob away using taunt of inflame, but the range of these spells isn't that big, which is a bit of a shame.
Plenty of aggressive spells, much more than I'm used to in EQ I as a paladin.
Finishing the HO as the tank is handy, especially when taunt or shout or inflame is used. Creating good HO's is tough, something that definitely needs to be discussed in advance.
The problem ofcourse is when tanking in a group that attacks different mobs than the one the tank is fighting. Annoying to have to get aggro back from a mob that is chasing a fellow groupee, when I'm still fighting the first mob and getting serious damage as it is. Doesn't happen with a good group, or at least not often.
I do wonder what happens if I still play with app3 spells when grouping with people who play with adept spells? Would they get more aggro even if I used taunt and such continuously?
Yet, when in a group, and tanking, I never had that hard a time to keep aggro(yet). If I had to pull, I used the Righteous Anger spell as it has a much larger range, then keep aggro (or at least try to) by instantly using either taunt or shout (depending on solo or group and possible adds, if more than one and possibility of adds then Assault spell does the trick)
Otherwise it's the matter of pulling the mob away using taunt of inflame, but the range of these spells isn't that big, which is a bit of a shame.
Plenty of aggressive spells, much more than I'm used to in EQ I as a paladin.
Finishing the HO as the tank is handy, especially when taunt or shout or inflame is used. Creating good HO's is tough, something that definitely needs to be discussed in advance.
The problem ofcourse is when tanking in a group that attacks different mobs than the one the tank is fighting. Annoying to have to get aggro back from a mob that is chasing a fellow groupee, when I'm still fighting the first mob and getting serious damage as it is. Doesn't happen with a good group, or at least not often.
I do wonder what happens if I still play with app3 spells when grouping with people who play with adept spells? Would they get more aggro even if I used taunt and such continuously?
Quote:
I do wonder what happens if I still play with app3 spells when grouping with people who play with adept spells? Would they get more aggro even if I used taunt and such continuously?
last week I grouped with a mage who was able to DD with some icebased spell (afair) up to 109 dmg. heck... when we started, he was kind of showing off (but nicely), about his burst DPS with his adept 3 or whatever... I replied, "well, you overnuke, and then you're minced meat". he died at least twice due to overnuking, cause I wasnt able to get aggro back fast enough (my taunt is only app 3).
pre fight, discuss in group:
- have a main assist, so the mage doesn't nuke the mob you are not fighting at the mo.
- tell the DPS'ers not to engage mob straight away, but wait until you have firm aggro. else /em rude gesture
fight:
- always good to have at least one AOE or taunt up for emergencies.
- use your ward! (lvl 12, demonstration of faith)
Still a noob. :-P
Characters on Drinal, Povar, EMarr, Firiona Vie.
Characters on Drinal, Povar, EMarr, Firiona Vie.
I'm a berserker, once I get aggro keeping it is easy enough :P
Honestly aggro is wear sometime I pulled aggro off a paladin guildie just by walking up to teh mob .. I hadn't even drawn my weapons yet.
Honestly aggro is wear sometime I pulled aggro off a paladin guildie just by walking up to teh mob .. I hadn't even drawn my weapons yet.
Honestly at these low levels just about anyone can pull aggro off the tank if they want. People just need to stop being dumb and start being less dumb. If yuo get aggro off the tank just stop attacking until he gets it back. I played a wizard in EQ 1 and one of the great things about playing that class was knowing yuo could wipe a raid with one foul nuke. It's really not any different with the other classes, just takes a little more time and effort to get the aggro off.
PS I do think using adept vs apprentice makes a big difference in holding aggro.
PS I do think using adept vs apprentice makes a big difference in holding aggro.
PS I do think using adept vs apprentice makes a big difference in holding aggro.
That's a problem ofcourse. Mainly because so far I've only been able to find two adept spells for Crusader on the Oggok server. Oh yeah, a third one too, but that was being sold for 5 gold pieces, lol, so that's way beyond my budget at the moment.
With only Righteous Blow and Inflame (which is good for aggro ofcourse) on Adept lvl, I do fear for when I become a paladin.
It's possible that I've not been playing in the right zones to find the drops myself though, lol, still need to go to Stormhold and only once been in Blackburrow at lvl 18.
That's a problem ofcourse. Mainly because so far I've only been able to find two adept spells for Crusader on the Oggok server. Oh yeah, a third one too, but that was being sold for 5 gold pieces, lol, so that's way beyond my budget at the moment.
With only Righteous Blow and Inflame (which is good for aggro ofcourse) on Adept lvl, I do fear for when I become a paladin.
It's possible that I've not been playing in the right zones to find the drops myself though, lol, still need to go to Stormhold and only once been in Blackburrow at lvl 18.
I used to have a crusader and I was grouped with a warrior. It was kinda sad I had way more AC then him but I couldn't get hate no matter what I did. It just seems that crusaders have a harder time holding hate then a warrior type because warrior gets more hate grabbing skills. A great way to keep hate though is to have the best possible armor you can. Usually I can get 2-4 shouts in before I need a heal at all so theres no hate going to anybody else.
Update:
I didn't make it too clear but i wasn't tanking in the first group, i have since done a couple of short quest groups as MT and since rightious rage? new at 13 i was able to hold the aggro easy.
I follow the get the first HO before every flies in tactic and since i can get it off pretty much as the mob arives in the camp i didn't effect the DPS.
The main issue i have now is trying to convince people that it is better to pull back to a point rather than trample around hitting groups of gnolls.
So many people where dying from pops it managed to drive the point home. As usual communication was the key and once i had the healer calling adds i was able to switch around and keep the casters alive.
I didn't make it too clear but i wasn't tanking in the first group, i have since done a couple of short quest groups as MT and since rightious rage? new at 13 i was able to hold the aggro easy.
I follow the get the first HO before every flies in tactic and since i can get it off pretty much as the mob arives in the camp i didn't effect the DPS.
The main issue i have now is trying to convince people that it is better to pull back to a point rather than trample around hitting groups of gnolls.
So many people where dying from pops it managed to drive the point home. As usual communication was the key and once i had the healer calling adds i was able to switch around and keep the casters alive.
Ive made it to 21 Guardian only at the moment, i can tell you ( i was level 67 warrior in EQ ) Taunt dosent work the same as in eq.
Now if i am not mistaken taunt ability seems to give you a hate boost, so heres what you need to do, and not only you will need to work on it ( First thing assist is essential, it does causes problem for debuffers ).
Start a fight with Shout, always if you can close a HO with shout at each fight starts it usually does the trick, then try the ae attack ( watch out for assault it is not limited to encounter ) If you manage that you should pretty much keep aggro on all mobs. Now if you pull from not to far try to have healer cast there Vitas, ward or what not before you pull, so it gives them no aggro. Mobs are pretty hard to move from a target to another once they are hitting it, so the first 5 seconds of a fight are i think the most important for taun aggro control.
Now if i am not mistaken taunt ability seems to give you a hate boost, so heres what you need to do, and not only you will need to work on it ( First thing assist is essential, it does causes problem for debuffers ).
Start a fight with Shout, always if you can close a HO with shout at each fight starts it usually does the trick, then try the ae attack ( watch out for assault it is not limited to encounter ) If you manage that you should pretty much keep aggro on all mobs. Now if you pull from not to far try to have healer cast there Vitas, ward or what not before you pull, so it gives them no aggro. Mobs are pretty hard to move from a target to another once they are hitting it, so the first 5 seconds of a fight are i think the most important for taun aggro control.
Aye pulling if preferable, also Hold the line is an awesome tool not sure if crusader get it tho
No hold the line, but we do have some tricks up our sleeves.
One tactic is to pull with an HO. Pick a mob and hit your Incoming macro, then auto attack on. Then use the HO starter -> Righteous Anger (ranged DD so you don't have to be up close) and then Inflame/Shout to finish it. This plants a lot of hate on the Crusader right off the bat.
Wards and Heals. Wards not only prevent damage being delt but create a good bit of hate. So you have effectively more hp and gain hate. The tradeoff of course is power. So be sure to use drinks appropriate for your tier as my upgraded Demonstration of Faith takes half a bubble of power.
Then there's Assault, Cry of Conviction, Unyielding Advance, etc. We just have to be smart in our use of abilities, but when you figure it out you hold hate just fine.
One tactic is to pull with an HO. Pick a mob and hit your Incoming macro, then auto attack on. Then use the HO starter -> Righteous Anger (ranged DD so you don't have to be up close) and then Inflame/Shout to finish it. This plants a lot of hate on the Crusader right off the bat.
Wards and Heals. Wards not only prevent damage being delt but create a good bit of hate. So you have effectively more hp and gain hate. The tradeoff of course is power. So be sure to use drinks appropriate for your tier as my upgraded Demonstration of Faith takes half a bubble of power.
Then there's Assault, Cry of Conviction, Unyielding Advance, etc. We just have to be smart in our use of abilities, but when you figure it out you hold hate just fine.
Hold the Line, I've found in the past few days, is the key to holding aggro when yuo get multiples on a pull. (assuming yuo have a chanter, otherwise try your AE attack in combo with HTL, shout, and Rallying Cry) You have to make sure that pet classes aren't sicking their pets, or healers aren't throwing out buffs before you get aggro, make sure nukers hold off a bit, and that melees get behind the mob ... or there can be big time problems (your stuck in one spot). Again, it really is just a team effort and everything can't be blamed on the MT if there is bounce. The other classes have plenty of opportunities to wipe the group. i]
Edited, Tue Dec 21 13:35:30 2004 by DaxilS
Edited, Tue Dec 21 13:35:30 2004 by DaxilS
I usually dont have problems keeping aggro, or regaining it if I should lose it, as a 18 Crusader. The trick seems to be using the two area effect spells, if more than one mob, as well as taunting. Of course, ALL of my dps spells get a work out EVERY fight, so that helps, too.
Scholar
31 posts
You guys need to be very careful of using AE spells/skills. If they are not "group" only, you will wipe your group using them at some point.
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