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Sony NERFED us with crafting, NERF them backFollow
5 posts
Sonys latest update is obviously a serious blow to anyone. I just hit level 9, and wasn't making any big money. It was nice being able to sell my less then pristine items and get at least
some of my money back it cost to produce it. The way I figure it
everyone has a voice in this, SOE listens to one thing, MONEY. They have investors, and a parent company. You want to make SOE
really listen? log in to your account today and cancel your subscription. If they indeed fix crafting you can always renew. But imagine all the power if everyone came together and canceled their subscriptions today or tomorrow. I bet SOE would hire more programmers to fix thier sloppy code, and actually work on customer relations. I might be just one guy who is sick
of SOE's nerf policy, but im thankful that with each passing day they will continue to ***** people over till they loose everyone who actually cared anything about the game.
Cheers to the company that skipped BETA and went public with a product about 60% ready. Glad you guys like paying to be beta testers.
Randy
1. That won't happen
2. The release hasn't been that sloppy compared to other games of the genre
2. The release hasn't been that sloppy compared to other games of the genre
I really believe they did this to stop the plat farmers from exploiting this. It only makes sense for them to fix this issue quick. If they let it go to long an overseas company with an army of barely paid workers could ruin the whole economy in a month (like they did in other games).
Just hold of from crafting for a week and I imagine it will be fixed.
Just hold of from crafting for a week and I imagine it will be fixed.
Do u really think that stopping your subscription would work? lol I think not. they would scrap the game. Ever single person that is playing already forked over the cash to buy the game that paid all the research off and costs of the game. plus gave them a nice profit. Plus they are still making a ton from EQ1/SWG/Planetside. The history in their games has proved this. They do what they want fix what they want and nerf what they want.
How silly to cancel your subscription because you can't sell your crafted items to vendors in the game. It IS a game after all -- if you don't like it, by all means cancel your subscription and don't play. But don't confuse that action with some type of "protest" because you don't like the rules.
they've said that this was a temporary hold on selling items. it's not permanent.
EQ: Runyaessz, 5 Monk, Phinigel
EVE: Runym/Runyn/Runyl, 43M SP each
SWTOR: Pardoric, 22 Merc, on vaca
EQ: Runyariel Varyuvantel, 65 Enchanter, Tarew Marr, on vaca
LoTRO: Runyarian, 38 hunter, Vilya, on vaca
WoW: Runyarian, 70 hunter, Muradin, on sabbatical
EQ2: Runylala, 25 Troll Bard, Qey, Blackburrow, retired
WAR: Runyael, 30 DiscO Khaine, Ironfist,retired.
CoH: Hissing Chicken, 16 Scrapper, Pinnacle, retired
EVE: Runym/Runyn/Runyl, 43M SP each
SWTOR: Pardoric, 22 Merc, on vaca
EQ: Runyariel Varyuvantel, 65 Enchanter, Tarew Marr, on vaca
LoTRO: Runyarian, 38 hunter, Vilya, on vaca
WoW: Runyarian, 70 hunter, Muradin, on sabbatical
EQ2: Runylala, 25 Troll Bard, Qey, Blackburrow, retired
WAR: Runyael, 30 DiscO Khaine, Ironfist,retired.
CoH: Hissing Chicken, 16 Scrapper, Pinnacle, retired
miaa wrote:
How silly to cancel your subscription because you can't sell your crafted items to vendors in the game. It IS a game after all -- if you don't like it, by all means cancel your subscription and don't play. But don't confuse that action with some type of "protest" because you don't like the rules.
It's not just that.. there has been some serious neglect in the area of crafting by SOE and it's on the virge of imploding. The NPC patch was just the salt on the wounds that pushed many players over the edge.
This was a ticking timebomb just waiting to go off. If you don't think it's that big of a deal, just go check out the tradeskill forums at SOE.
Bugs:
-books that people can't scribe
-broken workshop quests
-broken recipies
Design Flaws:
-the merchant system blows
-adept drops are so common that app III's aren't needed
-the quested armor is easy to obtain and much better than anything a crafter could produce
-no labeling of food/potions so players have no idea what they do (and why would they buy them if they don't know what they do?)
-the dependencies are total crap. most are having an extremely hard time finding components they need from other players.
That's all you read over and over again at the SOE tradeskill forums but yet they just ignore everyone. They seem powerless to help us but not to hurt us.
Edited, Thu Dec 9 14:17:34 2004 by subvert
I'm lost. WHat did they nerf?
Reality is this:
I want to hear some of these people post: PROGRAMERS
People ranting don't realize the hard work that goes into making it. THe long hours, the lines and lines of pure code.
Fact is, there are serveral hundred people and many groups that put this stuff together. The unision to get it all perfect is hard. Most of the time they don't mean for us to be Beta testers, it just so happens that players as a whle sometimes do something or try something that causes a situation that they never even thought of trying. Sometimes in programing you fix one code and, and the code for that fix effects something else that you didn't even realize was related.
Pasrt that I find funny about posts like this is that people like Randycvg who start the post, I guarentee, has not canceled his account, nor will he do so. If you are unhappy with the game, quit. In the mean time, while the DEVs are busy fixing the crafting, try to enjoy the 1000 other things to do in the game. Adventure, do missions, fight. By all means, if you are playing EQ for only one reason, and that reason is broken, leave.
For everyone else, take a step back and realize the amazement and magnifance that it must have taken to put this entire world together, and all the other things that we can do in game.
Reality is this:
I want to hear some of these people post: PROGRAMERS
People ranting don't realize the hard work that goes into making it. THe long hours, the lines and lines of pure code.
Fact is, there are serveral hundred people and many groups that put this stuff together. The unision to get it all perfect is hard. Most of the time they don't mean for us to be Beta testers, it just so happens that players as a whle sometimes do something or try something that causes a situation that they never even thought of trying. Sometimes in programing you fix one code and, and the code for that fix effects something else that you didn't even realize was related.
Pasrt that I find funny about posts like this is that people like Randycvg who start the post, I guarentee, has not canceled his account, nor will he do so. If you are unhappy with the game, quit. In the mean time, while the DEVs are busy fixing the crafting, try to enjoy the 1000 other things to do in the game. Adventure, do missions, fight. By all means, if you are playing EQ for only one reason, and that reason is broken, leave.
For everyone else, take a step back and realize the amazement and magnifance that it must have taken to put this entire world together, and all the other things that we can do in game.
Yeah, that is obsurd. If you hate it that bad, just stop crafting. Its not like there isn't other reasons to play the game.
Quote:
Fact is, there are serveral hundred people and many groups that put this stuff together. The unision to get it all perfect is hard. Most of the time they don't mean for us to be Beta testers, it just so happens that players as a whle sometimes do something or try something that causes a situation that they never even thought of trying. Sometimes in programing you fix one code and, and the code for that fix effects something else that you didn't even realize was related.
I'm a programmer and if my code went out of beta and into production like this, I would have been fired long ago. I understand that their marketing department sets their release dates and pushes the developers past their limit but the developers need to grow a spine and put their foot down.
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Yeah, that is obsurd. If you hate it that bad, just stop crafting. Its not like there isn't other reasons to play the game.
I know it's hard to understand for some of you but there are lots of people who buy games like this *just to craft*. They could care less about adventuring.
Edited, Thu Dec 9 14:12:24 2004 by subvert
I am not a programmer (so maybe I am just ignorant on it) but I think the game is pretty amazing. Considering the complexity of it, it works quite well. Also I am a level 16 scholar and I have had no trouble with the crafting or making decent money from it -- and I haven't sold one thing to a vendor yet. Again, if you don't like the the game people the solution is simple -- QUIT!! In EQ1 so much of the boards were taken up by people whining about Sony this and Sony that. Now the same thing is happening with EQ2. It's ridiculous. Like with anything else, if you don't like a product, take your business elsewhere.
LOL, that's what they're doing or did you misread the OP?
Hope you don't chose sage at lvl 20. The adept drops are so common that you won't be able to sell most of the spells you learn but you need to make them anyways because of the XP bonus you get for discovering new items. Instead of selling those back to the NPC for a partial loss, you're just gonna have to destroy them.
Of course, this is only temporary but like I said earlier.. it's just the devs throwing salt on already infected wounds.
Edited, Thu Dec 9 14:24:47 2004 by subvert
Quote:
Also I am a level 16 scholar and I have had no trouble with the crafting or making decent money from it -- and I haven't sold one thing to a vendor yet.
Hope you don't chose sage at lvl 20. The adept drops are so common that you won't be able to sell most of the spells you learn but you need to make them anyways because of the XP bonus you get for discovering new items. Instead of selling those back to the NPC for a partial loss, you're just gonna have to destroy them.
Of course, this is only temporary but like I said earlier.. it's just the devs throwing salt on already infected wounds.
Edited, Thu Dec 9 14:24:47 2004 by subvert
Exactly, and if they buy the game just to craft, and you dont' like that aspect, then stop playing. No one that tells people to stop playing here, ever stops playing themselves. I have left games like SWG, and once I left, I didn't go whine about it because it wasn't worth my time. If he didn't like EQ2, he wouldn't be sitting in the EQ2 forum.
As far as Programers putting their foot down. What, do you think these programers all have Union Jobs? That this is a movie and the little guy will put his foot down and the boss will back down?
It's simple, you put your foot down, they fire you and hire soemone that will meet a deadline. I want someone with a wife and kids who is the sole provider go home and tell his family that he doesn't have a job because his job demanded to much and he put his foot down. Not the way the real world works, sorry.
Lets take a general census here. If you had to pick between two choices, what would it be:
A) Get the game released when it did, be playing it now, and if they find a bug, do other things in the game while the bug is fixed but still enjoy it.
or
B) Not have the game now, and have them not release the game unitl all the bugs are out, even if this could mean an extra year or two becasue the bugs don't always show themselves when not under heavey use.
My answer to people that say B,
You should know that no system, be it Windows, a new model car, or a game, is that stable when it first comes out. Most games, even not On-line ones get patches that you can download after the inital release, it's normal. Knowing this, and saying that you would have prefered to wait, why did you buy the game?
Shouldn't you have waited a year for the game to be live and have the bugs ironed out before you bought it? Fact is you didn't wait cause you prefer to play it now, bugs and all.
As far as Programers putting their foot down. What, do you think these programers all have Union Jobs? That this is a movie and the little guy will put his foot down and the boss will back down?
It's simple, you put your foot down, they fire you and hire soemone that will meet a deadline. I want someone with a wife and kids who is the sole provider go home and tell his family that he doesn't have a job because his job demanded to much and he put his foot down. Not the way the real world works, sorry.
Lets take a general census here. If you had to pick between two choices, what would it be:
A) Get the game released when it did, be playing it now, and if they find a bug, do other things in the game while the bug is fixed but still enjoy it.
or
B) Not have the game now, and have them not release the game unitl all the bugs are out, even if this could mean an extra year or two becasue the bugs don't always show themselves when not under heavey use.
My answer to people that say B,
You should know that no system, be it Windows, a new model car, or a game, is that stable when it first comes out. Most games, even not On-line ones get patches that you can download after the inital release, it's normal. Knowing this, and saying that you would have prefered to wait, why did you buy the game?
Shouldn't you have waited a year for the game to be live and have the bugs ironed out before you bought it? Fact is you didn't wait cause you prefer to play it now, bugs and all.
Quote:
Exactly, and if they buy the game just to craft, and you dont' like that aspect, then stop playing. No one that tells people to stop playing here, ever stops playing themselves. I have left games like SWG, and once I left, I didn't go whine about it because it wasn't worth my time. If he didn't like EQ2, he wouldn't be sitting in the EQ2 forum.
Explain to me what is so wrong with people wanting them to fix a game THEY ALREADY PAID FOR and put a lot of time into? Why should they stop playing when it's the game that needs to be fixed? Serously, if you buy a stereo that only picks up AM stations do you expect the CSR at the store to tell you to just make the best out of the AM stations? No, you keep ******** until the CSR gets his manager or someone listens to you.
Quote:
As far as Programers putting their foot down. What, do you think these programers all have Union Jobs? That this is a movie and the little guy will put his foot down and the boss will back down?
Well gee.. I don't seem to have any sort of problem explaining why a project plan has an unrealistic timeline and I have no union to back me up.
The fact is, the marketing department knew it was not going to be ready. The developers knew it was not going to be ready. Hell, the beta testers knew it was not going to be ready and yet nobody did anything about it.
Quote:
You should know that no system, be it Windows, a new model car, or a game, is that stable when it first comes out. Most games, even not On-line ones get patches that you can download after the inital release, it's normal. Knowing this, and saying that you would have prefered to wait, why did you buy the game?
First of all, Windows still isn't stable but I won't go into that. Second, there's a big difference in having bugs and fixing them. The problem I'm addressing is that they havn't even acknowledged these bugs exist.
Edited, Thu Dec 9 14:37:35 2004 by subvert
I just noticed that I can't even sell my monster loot to vendors at the moment.. stuff like rodent meat, plasma, etc. Hope that's just a bug, cause that stuff isn't harvested or crafted (even though some can be used in crafting).
Well, if you are playing EQ, you are probably on Windows, stable or not.
But if you are going to play an on-line game, you have to have ackknowledgement that problems happen. Can you be pissed about it, sure. If the main reason you play is broken, you can stop your account and pick it up again.
But "NERF SONY" by leaveing? People play the game for many reasons, it's just a game. If it doesn't work the way you want it to, don't throw a hissy fit, just stop playing. I bought SWG, didn't like the way it was going, so I quit, no hissy fit. I enjoyed it for the while that I played, and thats all.
As far as someone putting their foot down. WHo said things couldn't be done in time? Why put a foot down? EQ works. The game runs, it's filled with nice content. Yea, things break, and the fact that they stoped selling on vendors and said it was tempary shows that they actknolwdge there is an issue. I am just tired. I come on to the fourms to read about new spells, new content, maybe help someone with computer questions.
Every other topic ends up being a I hate Sony one. For people that hate it so much, they sure do come to the forums for them a lot, that's all.
But if you are going to play an on-line game, you have to have ackknowledgement that problems happen. Can you be pissed about it, sure. If the main reason you play is broken, you can stop your account and pick it up again.
But "NERF SONY" by leaveing? People play the game for many reasons, it's just a game. If it doesn't work the way you want it to, don't throw a hissy fit, just stop playing. I bought SWG, didn't like the way it was going, so I quit, no hissy fit. I enjoyed it for the while that I played, and thats all.
As far as someone putting their foot down. WHo said things couldn't be done in time? Why put a foot down? EQ works. The game runs, it's filled with nice content. Yea, things break, and the fact that they stoped selling on vendors and said it was tempary shows that they actknolwdge there is an issue. I am just tired. I come on to the fourms to read about new spells, new content, maybe help someone with computer questions.
Every other topic ends up being a I hate Sony one. For people that hate it so much, they sure do come to the forums for them a lot, that's all.
Well, if you are playing EQ, you are probably on Windows, stable or not.
But if you are going to play an on-line game, you have to have ackknowledgement that problems happen. Can you be pissed about it, sure. If the main reason you play is broken, you can stop your account and pick it up again.
But "NERF SONY" by leaveing? People play the game for many reasons, it's just a game. If it doesn't work the way you want it to, don't throw a hissy fit, just stop playing. I bought SWG, didn't like the way it was going, so I quit, no hissy fit. I enjoyed it for the while that I played, and thats all.
As far as someone putting hteir foot down. WHo said things couldn't be done in time? Why put a foot down? EQ works. The game runs, it's filled with nice content. Yea, things break, and the fact that they stoped selling on vendors and said it was tempary shows that they actknolwdge there is an issue. I am just tired. I come on to the fourms to read about new spells, new content, maybe help someone with computer questions.
Every other topic ends up being a I hate Sony one. For people that hate it so much, they sure do come to the forums for them a lot, that's all.
But if you are going to play an on-line game, you have to have ackknowledgement that problems happen. Can you be pissed about it, sure. If the main reason you play is broken, you can stop your account and pick it up again.
But "NERF SONY" by leaveing? People play the game for many reasons, it's just a game. If it doesn't work the way you want it to, don't throw a hissy fit, just stop playing. I bought SWG, didn't like the way it was going, so I quit, no hissy fit. I enjoyed it for the while that I played, and thats all.
As far as someone putting hteir foot down. WHo said things couldn't be done in time? Why put a foot down? EQ works. The game runs, it's filled with nice content. Yea, things break, and the fact that they stoped selling on vendors and said it was tempary shows that they actknolwdge there is an issue. I am just tired. I come on to the fourms to read about new spells, new content, maybe help someone with computer questions.
Every other topic ends up being a I hate Sony one. For people that hate it so much, they sure do come to the forums for them a lot, that's all.
People that whine on these boards don't quit, they just continue to whine. There is nothing wrong with wanting the game to be fixed that we ALL are paying for, but if the whiners would read the posts on the EQ2 forum they would see that Sony has indicated it is addressing the issue. My point is if you don't think they are doing so fast enough -- go elsewhere and stop posting here! And yes I intend to be a sage to make my own spells and spells for friends I group with. If I make any money making anyone else's spells more power to me. If I don't, I won't cry, I will just find another way to make money or do quests to get the stuff I need or make another crafter to make the stuff I need etc. etc. Life, especially in a GAME, goes on.
Quote:
As far as someone putting hteir foot down. WHo said things couldn't be done in time? Why put a foot down? EQ works. The game runs, it's filled with nice content. Yea, things break, and the fact that they stoped selling on vendors and said it was tempary shows that they actknolwdge there is an issue. I am just tired. I come on to the fourms to read about new spells, new content, maybe help someone with computer questions.
Do you really think that just because you can get your code to compile and run that it works? Do me a favor and never become a programmer.
Thank you miaa.
I am a single parent and work full time. I get to play a little after my daughter falls asleep, that's about it.
For some reason, when people cry about a glitch, I just picture rather an outcast 15 year old who is part of the Trench Coat Mafia, or a 40 year old guy in his underwear living in his moms basement.
I am a single parent and work full time. I get to play a little after my daughter falls asleep, that's about it.
For some reason, when people cry about a glitch, I just picture rather an outcast 15 year old who is part of the Trench Coat Mafia, or a 40 year old guy in his underwear living in his moms basement.
Are you playing the game? Yes, so the answer is yes, it works.
Are their bugs? Yes. THere will always be bugs. To many people that figure out little tricks or exploits that devs never even though off.
But yes, the game works, bugs and all. I have not seen some monumental D-DAY of EQ where all the servers come crashing to a halt and people start gaining 5 levels a kill and sell items for 5pp because of bugs.
If you want perfection, program your own operating system, your own game, you own software. Things in the world don't run that smoothly. So if you ask me, yes, the progamers compiled the codes in a very good working order. There will always be bugs, it's a big system. But the fact is, if you see a bug, and it's something that doesn't devistate your playing style, live with it for a little while, it will get fixed.
Now when EQ crashes because of corrupt code, then I will believe you no room for bugs progamming ideas.
Are their bugs? Yes. THere will always be bugs. To many people that figure out little tricks or exploits that devs never even though off.
But yes, the game works, bugs and all. I have not seen some monumental D-DAY of EQ where all the servers come crashing to a halt and people start gaining 5 levels a kill and sell items for 5pp because of bugs.
If you want perfection, program your own operating system, your own game, you own software. Things in the world don't run that smoothly. So if you ask me, yes, the progamers compiled the codes in a very good working order. There will always be bugs, it's a big system. But the fact is, if you see a bug, and it's something that doesn't devistate your playing style, live with it for a little while, it will get fixed.
Now when EQ crashes because of corrupt code, then I will believe you no room for bugs progamming ideas.
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with wanting the game to be fixed that we ALL are paying for, but if the whiners would read the posts on the EQ2 forum they would see that Sony has indicated it is addressing the issue.
You obviously havn't read the SOE tradeskill forums or you'd see that there are tons of problems which none have been addressed. It's not so much the bugs that bother me, it's the lack of effort on SOE's part to fix the bugs or even acknowledge they exist.
Quote:
For some reason, when people cry about a glitch, I just picture rather an outcast 15 year old who is part of the Trench Coat Mafia, or a 40 year old guy in his underwear living in his moms basement.
Hey, I wear my underwear in my own basement TYVM.
Quote:
Are you playing the game? Yes, so the answer is yes, it works.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "works".
Quote:
If you want perfection, program your own operating system, your own game, you own software. Things in the world don't run that smoothly. So if you ask me, yes, the progamers compiled the codes in a very good working order. There will always be bugs, it's a big system. But the fact is, if you see a bug, and it's something that doesn't devistate your playing style, live with it for a little while, it will get fixed.
Like I said, I don't expect perfection. I do expect some sort of response. They can do a patch every morning that fixes things like the food regen rate while riding a griffin but they can't even acknowledge any of the bugs in the tradeskill forums.
Edited, Thu Dec 9 14:50:35 2004 by subvert
Well, it's different when it's in your own basement. That's normal. Basement is the only room in my house I can turn my speakers up.
Well, I honestly was un-aware of other crafting bugs.
I am currently up to scribe and i haven't noticed anything wrong yet.
When I notice something that makes the game un-enjoyable, I'll stop playing.
However, maybe Sony needs more Public contact. Just becasue they haven't broadcast that they are working on something, doesn't mean they are not working on it.
Well, I honestly was un-aware of other crafting bugs.
I am currently up to scribe and i haven't noticed anything wrong yet.
When I notice something that makes the game un-enjoyable, I'll stop playing.
However, maybe Sony needs more Public contact. Just becasue they haven't broadcast that they are working on something, doesn't mean they are not working on it.
Problem is, for example, I support an on-line training system.
We have to servers, the Production, and the QA one.
Even though both servers are completely identical. The massive use that the production one gets will always manage to turn up some bug that was never notcied in QA.
You can't always realy on Beta testers to think of every possible combination of things that could have caused an issue.
If there are more issues in tradeskills, I agree, they should acknowledge it. I just somewhoe can't beleive that they could not know about it and not be in the works on fixing it. I think they just haven't made a broadcast out about it yet.
What kind of problems do the tradeskills have?
We have to servers, the Production, and the QA one.
Even though both servers are completely identical. The massive use that the production one gets will always manage to turn up some bug that was never notcied in QA.
You can't always realy on Beta testers to think of every possible combination of things that could have caused an issue.
If there are more issues in tradeskills, I agree, they should acknowledge it. I just somewhoe can't beleive that they could not know about it and not be in the works on fixing it. I think they just haven't made a broadcast out about it yet.
What kind of problems do the tradeskills have?
Technically, the crafting issue has nothign to do with programmers. The code involved works right, the people you need to have a discussion with are the planners and the content writers. You should also talk to the data entry team. You know... those people whos job it is to link item_a to quest_b. Programmers don't do that unless you run a small shop. In large corporations such as SOE there are departments within departments.
It doesn't really matter - think what you want, if you don't want to play the game, get lost - your opinions do not matter here. If you are really dissatisfied, write a letter and send out copies to the president of the company, the director of SOE, the managers of the different departments, and HR and Customer Service/Public Relations.
A bunch of game fans on a game oriented messageboard have no say in the regulation of this game.
Ya know, so what if you can't sell your crafted items to a NPC vendor... is that really so important that you want to get all pissy IN REAL LIFE? It's a game, enjoy the parts you can, SOE makes NO GUARENTEES that you will 100% enjoy it or your money back. Their job is to please the majority, guess what - they are succeeding, too bad you are in the minority.
You have many ways to voice your opinions:/report, /bug. /suggestion, /quit
Move along.
It doesn't really matter - think what you want, if you don't want to play the game, get lost - your opinions do not matter here. If you are really dissatisfied, write a letter and send out copies to the president of the company, the director of SOE, the managers of the different departments, and HR and Customer Service/Public Relations.
A bunch of game fans on a game oriented messageboard have no say in the regulation of this game.
Ya know, so what if you can't sell your crafted items to a NPC vendor... is that really so important that you want to get all pissy IN REAL LIFE? It's a game, enjoy the parts you can, SOE makes NO GUARENTEES that you will 100% enjoy it or your money back. Their job is to please the majority, guess what - they are succeeding, too bad you are in the minority.
You have many ways to voice your opinions:/report, /bug. /suggestion, /quit
Move along.
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