i hear berserkers get better agro, dmg, and they tank the same, they wear plate, and guardians have alot of skills that help other people tank and do crappy dmg and less agro.
how does that make sence
Edited, Mon Nov 29 17:20:59 2004 by mokuba
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Not a guardian yet. I completed the quest but need to make 20. -_-;
Anyway, I've been reading a lot on the official forums and quite a bit of people are complaining that Guardian is broken. I dunno, others are also saying that it isn't. *shrug*
From what I've read, Berserker is the better tank, currently, when it comes to ripping hate. My take on the classes are:
1. Guardian - Protect others. Absorb damage. Mostly defensive abilities to manage hate.
2. Berserker - Offensive tank. Not true DPS but still, some nice numbers popping up.
Many have said that Berserkers can steal hate from Guardian's easily, yet are chewed up when they do. I've yet to experience a party as a Guardian or with a Berserker, so I know not for sure.
I chose Guardian for RP purposes, so I'm not too hooked into the mechanics comparisons. I will always research and see when and how I can better my own skills, however. If I want to main tank, I'll do my best to be MT. If someone else is more skilled, then of course, for the better of the party, I'll whip out my 2h or duel wield and be main assist.
What is your desire in the game? To be the best tank, you have many options, not just one. From what I've read, after 25 is when classes start to become differentiated. Remember, there's always Monk too. Any subclass from the fighter archetype is a tank, I believe, just different methods of tanking. Although with your current, it's too late, no?
Not to steal you away from Alla, but do check out the official forums if you haven't already. You may find the information you seek that will help you better judge what subclass to choose.
Edited, Mon Nov 29 20:48:02 2004 by ArcosKojin
Anyway, I've been reading a lot on the official forums and quite a bit of people are complaining that Guardian is broken. I dunno, others are also saying that it isn't. *shrug*
From what I've read, Berserker is the better tank, currently, when it comes to ripping hate. My take on the classes are:
1. Guardian - Protect others. Absorb damage. Mostly defensive abilities to manage hate.
2. Berserker - Offensive tank. Not true DPS but still, some nice numbers popping up.
Many have said that Berserkers can steal hate from Guardian's easily, yet are chewed up when they do. I've yet to experience a party as a Guardian or with a Berserker, so I know not for sure.
I chose Guardian for RP purposes, so I'm not too hooked into the mechanics comparisons. I will always research and see when and how I can better my own skills, however. If I want to main tank, I'll do my best to be MT. If someone else is more skilled, then of course, for the better of the party, I'll whip out my 2h or duel wield and be main assist.
What is your desire in the game? To be the best tank, you have many options, not just one. From what I've read, after 25 is when classes start to become differentiated. Remember, there's always Monk too. Any subclass from the fighter archetype is a tank, I believe, just different methods of tanking. Although with your current, it's too late, no?
Not to steal you away from Alla, but do check out the official forums if you haven't already. You may find the information you seek that will help you better judge what subclass to choose.
Edited, Mon Nov 29 20:48:02 2004 by ArcosKojin
ya, i saw that, it just doesnt sound balanced, berserkers get massivly better dmg and can tank just as well
Just think of Guardians as the major meatshields of the game, they're designed to hold agro and take damage, not to dish it out. Zerkers are damage dealers.
I'm sure the differentiation will become greater at higher levels.
I'm sure the differentiation will become greater at higher levels.
8 posts
I'm a 14 Warrior looking to become a Guardian. After reading posts on how Guardians are broke I'm not worried at all. I havn't heard any concrete statements or reasons as to why and how they are broke. Just some person saying I saw a Beserker pulling hate off of me a few times, and they were saying that their spells take too long to cast. To me that falls under poor group communication and he wasn't able to recognize when to cast certain spells. Untill I read well informed posts from guardians of various levels I'm not going to stress out about it yet.
its simple, they can both tank, but one does way more dmg and better agro
8 posts
Quote:
its simple, they can both tank, but one does way more dmg and better agro
No it's not simple. Prove it. Show links or explain why-- from various levels(ie both at lvl 20 or 30). Mokuba, you're making statements without personal experience or seemingly any solid proof. Like you said, the info you got is what you "hear". Does anyone actually have experience with Guardians or Beserkers and can compare them throughout different levels?
Hmm, their always seems to be at least 3 times more guardians on then berserkers at anyone one time on my server.
Why would so many people be playing a broken class?
I put it down to the masses (Guardian being the most dominant fighter class) trying to steal away usefulness of another class by bringing out the nerf bat on them.
People always do this, some circumstance happens (like a berserker stealing hate once) then they get all their buddies to go yell and scream about it till the other is nerfed. I played a necro in EQ1 and hit this full force. Time after time their solo'ing ability was smashed while all around me I would watch druids and wizards quad kite while bards kite everything.
Why would so many people be playing a broken class?
I put it down to the masses (Guardian being the most dominant fighter class) trying to steal away usefulness of another class by bringing out the nerf bat on them.
People always do this, some circumstance happens (like a berserker stealing hate once) then they get all their buddies to go yell and scream about it till the other is nerfed. I played a necro in EQ1 and hit this full force. Time after time their solo'ing ability was smashed while all around me I would watch druids and wizards quad kite while bards kite everything.
I have a 22 Guardian and have had zero problems tanking and holding aggro. I don't know what my DPS is compared to a Berserker, but I don't care because DPS isn't my role. That said, I am capable of dealing quite a bit of damage in a short amount of time if need be. If your Guardian is having aggro problems, tell him to look into upgrading his "Hold the Line" skill and use it. I'd say 90% of the time I never lose aggro for even a round once the initial taunt goes off.
3 posts
Guardians may not have the best DPS (who cares they are a tank), but tank like oak trees and good luck trying to steal aggro.
I play almost exculsively with a (27 for now) Guardian and I can't stand when I get stuck with anything besides a Guardian. He has just over 2k HP and around 1800 AC. Given a choice I will choose to group with a Guardian over any other tank class.
I play almost exculsively with a (27 for now) Guardian and I can't stand when I get stuck with anything besides a Guardian. He has just over 2k HP and around 1800 AC. Given a choice I will choose to group with a Guardian over any other tank class.
Scholar
29 posts
Oh hell, the difference between Zerkers and Guardians tanking ability at these levels is almost nothing. Maybe later we'll have some real distinctions, but not now.
Someone sent me, a 24 Zerker, a tell the other night to help him tank something. He was 25 and said he'd never had a Berserker tank for one of his groups so wasn't sure if I could do it. This says all you need to know about some people's ignorance of the Zerker subclass. The very idea that someone would get irritated that a mid 20's Zerker is tanking for him and not a Guardian is just dumb. It's one of these things that, months hence, people will look back on and shake their heads at what little understanding they had when the game was new. If you've got a Berseker with higher AC/HP than your Guardian, you're a fool to not have him tank, unless of course he's also an idiot.
Someone sent me, a 24 Zerker, a tell the other night to help him tank something. He was 25 and said he'd never had a Berserker tank for one of his groups so wasn't sure if I could do it. This says all you need to know about some people's ignorance of the Zerker subclass. The very idea that someone would get irritated that a mid 20's Zerker is tanking for him and not a Guardian is just dumb. It's one of these things that, months hence, people will look back on and shake their heads at what little understanding they had when the game was new. If you've got a Berseker with higher AC/HP than your Guardian, you're a fool to not have him tank, unless of course he's also an idiot.
***** it I'll tank in a lvl 30 pt any time (21 brusier ^^ ) j/k. but seriously give me a shaman who knows how to cast ward and I can tank 100 times better then zerker or guards, with out wards, im even or a lil under, but not much, but if i went all out agi and AC gear my tanking ability would be better. point is ANY fighter can tank, there is just certain setups that work best for certain tanks. While warriors go well with druids, and crusaders go well with clerics, brawlers go well with shamans. there was much thought put into this game when it was made, and with a little thinking you will see how well certain party setups work for some, while are horrible for others.
Example:
as a bruiser i find it a pain to tank with clerics and druids as main healers, but give me a shaman with those wonderful wards, and I own, uh oh ward went, NP ignore pain while sham recast, and i barely got a dent in my hp.
on the otherhand crusaders have there own semi ward ability, thus having ward on them is counter productive so due to their medium to high AC they work well with clerics and their reactive heals, as they dont take as big of hits as brawlers do.
and then there are warriors with there extreme AC and lower damge, druids healing over time ability work amazing with this set up. Due to the fact that druids dont throw 100+ heals, but rather cast a small heall with a hot ability, and the high to very high AC of warriors means they take less dot.
so as you can see there is a nice balance that needs to be found.
now if you go further into this subject with the same train of thought you then see how certain subclasses work better with others, keep in mind what i mentioned earlier is still very workable.
Example:
Berserkers and fury work with each other, furys from what i have been told, at later levels do damge as well as healing, so berserkers off set that damge with large damge output themselves.
while guardians and their good friends, wardens... i think, work better because wardens get more healing magics/ debuffs etc and guardians dont need the high damge output to compensate.
the same goes along these lines for crusader cleric relations and brawler shaman relations.
ok I actually got way off topic but w/e. =P
Example:
as a bruiser i find it a pain to tank with clerics and druids as main healers, but give me a shaman with those wonderful wards, and I own, uh oh ward went, NP ignore pain while sham recast, and i barely got a dent in my hp.
on the otherhand crusaders have there own semi ward ability, thus having ward on them is counter productive so due to their medium to high AC they work well with clerics and their reactive heals, as they dont take as big of hits as brawlers do.
and then there are warriors with there extreme AC and lower damge, druids healing over time ability work amazing with this set up. Due to the fact that druids dont throw 100+ heals, but rather cast a small heall with a hot ability, and the high to very high AC of warriors means they take less dot.
so as you can see there is a nice balance that needs to be found.
now if you go further into this subject with the same train of thought you then see how certain subclasses work better with others, keep in mind what i mentioned earlier is still very workable.
Example:
Berserkers and fury work with each other, furys from what i have been told, at later levels do damge as well as healing, so berserkers off set that damge with large damge output themselves.
while guardians and their good friends, wardens... i think, work better because wardens get more healing magics/ debuffs etc and guardians dont need the high damge output to compensate.
the same goes along these lines for crusader cleric relations and brawler shaman relations.
ok I actually got way off topic but w/e. =P
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