Where FFXI went wrongFollow

I used to play Everquest

It's not the japenese that has made this game to be elistist...
In any game you find there will always be ********.

Everquest is full of them as well as games like Ragnorak and serveral other online games I have played. Elitist are people who think they know better and wether they are japenese or american. You will still always have ********.

I found FFXI a breath of fresh air really and I actually... liked how the japenese had unknowingly helped set this distinct set rules of formality.

If you are bowed to.. You bow back.
Little things like this.

I also like how they play certain classes like red mage and black mage alot better also and their ways of playing.

Not what you can do only by yourself but what you can do to help your party as a whole and "play your best."


It is sad to see the game being farmed to hell unfortunately...
Gil is a lot harder to make now because of it and having server untions between 2 "Completely" different cultures isn't going to change that.

The only people who can change that is SE who has nerfed things from fishing to class skills. Who allow stupid gil farmers to ruin the game and do jack **** to them when they even break SE game rules.

When the game came out there were many japenese players already high lvl but there were still those who were new to the game.

It's not that all japenese are elitist but yes.. it's true they think many of us are selfish but they are also. It's just our way of thinking is way different then theirs.

While we would give the most oil to the one that squeaks the most they would hammer the nail that sticks out the most back down.

I myself can truely say I enjoyed playing with some Japenese players... ^^ Not all of them are asses and I am glad I met them.

I don't know what really has changed about the game.. I remember when I first played ^^ it was very nice warm and welcoming but now something has changed.

Maybe next time SE.. have the game come out at the "same" time for both countries haha (like that will ever happen)

@@ I look forward to their new game PC ONLY release of their next online game 2 years from now.

ANYWAYS @@ back to topic.
The only people who act like elistist are ******** and face it. in any game there are few RARE people who are not.
I really liked the bridge between NA and JP but People are still people.. -_- AS soon as anyone lvls up high they think they're big shots and therefore that's how they get that "elitist" attitudes.

The japenese are just easier to pick out in this situation as a scapegoat since they played the game a year longer is all.

By: Arkelias
Sage

Once again i am missing the point?? ok... i've only posted once... how can that be once again?? hahaha =P and yes i know what her post is saying which I just don't agree entirely with because all games HAVE elitists. the JP is just an easier scape goat for this game.

Edited, Mon Nov 22 21:50:28 2004 by Avani

i agree, the NA players developed the same elitest attitude, and they were more annoying because you could understand what they were saying completely, not just through the translator. As a WHM, I was ridiculed by a few NA players who partied with me when I was a newbie, and then felt insecure when I had grown to be a better healer and player than them.

It was me who reposted this on the FFXI forums. I did it without Yuni's permission, and I probably should have asked. I guess I really should not be surprised how it turned out.

Maybe two people saw her point. The rest turned it into a Japanese vs. NA debate and an EQ2 vs FFXI debate. It was interesting to see how vehemently they defend FF, and how the only problem anyone will acknowledge is the gil selling.

You guys make an excellent point with the way our views on FFXI were skewed from the beginning. From your sigs (those of you that have info in there) most of you ex-FFXI players were around level 60... Well I'd like to say you made the right choice in leaving to EQ2. I played up to level 75 as quick as I could, I didnt want to buy gil so I fishbotted it for a while then camped NMs for it. Let me tell you, at the end-game is where this skewed perception of goals is most obvious. What do you do at 75? You join an HNMLS and go camp NMs together. The Dragon's Aery is a god damned gang fight. Your LS stands on one side of the room, another LS on the opposite side. Then you proceed to spend 3 hours facing these people (often a JP linkshell with 2 years more experience) and staring at the armor you want to get. This is where trying to get money to twink your character is no longer an issue. Items that are no-trade no-sell, items that drop off the very monster you are camping. And what happens after staring at them for 3 hours? You watch the monster spawn claimed. Why? Maybe a little of it is JP lag being less than NA lag... the mian reason is even when NA use bots, the JPs have been using those bots for 2 years. Using and upgrading them to claim that monster much faster than you can. At least with an HNM like Fafnir if you manage to grab it when the JP take a day off or they lag a bit and you get it, there is some skill required in beating it. Think about an HNM like Simurgh or Roc or Serket. All three of these can be beaten by 2 players, Serket can probably be solod by a ninja with some meds... the ONLY amount of skill required is the luck in getting the claim, and the ability not to **** up horribly. The only thing left to do that's fun is Dynamis, because at least there the JP advantage isn't so obvious. NA groups have had enough time to catch up a bit and have some fun. It's fun playing against the computer. The computer's unfair advantage is understandable, we can work together against it.

Amen. I also felt that ffxi was kinda shallow as far as content. At first it seems that the content is endless, and is exciting. However as you get into the game you find that most mobs are the same as you go, just diff names and lvl. To me it just seemed liked going in a large circle. Especially lvling job after job. Just became to repetitve.

Rarely is the moment I rate down, but here is one such case.

GeorgeWierdBush, your comment is not appreciated [by me]. I feel that it is inappropriate to the conversation at hand and thus will get a rate down from me.

You cannot be serious about your comment, and if you are, then I find that very sad.

1. The actions of one does not speak for the many.

2. One catastrophic event does not cancel out another. Think real hard why such an event occurred in Japan those many years ago. Racism, bad sentiments and a whole slew of other things go back and forth. It's on both sides of the fence.

3. The catastrophic events, although with some merit, should not be brought up in a forum where it is inappropriate, unless proven by some facts to be directly the cause of any issues.

I find what you wrote as troll bait. It has no place here. Neither does my response, but as people like to know why rate downs occur, here are my reasons.



*edited*
Some grammar fixes. Most likely others abound, but whatever.

Edited, Mon Nov 22 19:07:50 2004 by ArcosKojin

You're right. I read the threads. However, as I said before, what that person did and how s/he felt does not reflect the "overall Japanese community". Unless that person shows proof that s/he is the spokesperson of said community, you made an assumption.

This assumption has garnered a rate down from me only because it does not belong in this particular thread. This thread is not about racism.

And I agree. This is not the FFXI General Forums. Please be mindful of what you said and try to see what my point is.

This is all true to an extent, but Everquest and probably Everquest 2 is no less evil in terms of equipment expectations than FFXI. What I like about FFXI is that it's up to the individual to make something of themselves. There isn't the crucial applications to big name guilds where it takes 72 good players to get a few people a couple pieces of equipment after hours of playing.

Sadly in any Mmorpg you are going to have to collect money to get items. The whole concept of the game ultimately revolves around gearing up when you hit that final level. Raid after raid... people complain about farming in FFXI but let's not forget about farming PoTime for several months every day with your guild. I can't even count the number of guilds I saw fall apart over trivial "loot" issues.

I admit that having NA only servers may have been a good idea, but in the end, over time, many mmorpgs boil down to the common things of equipment and money once your level is capped.

DrTaarak welcome to California ^_^ The Bay Area is full of culture from all around the world and you don't need a video game to enrich that. FFXI isn't doing something ground breaking, all countries are multi-cultural now. 3rd world countries may be less accepting of other's culture than most, but that does not stop the individual.

FFXI did do a great job with the auto-translator but it wasn't that difficult or ground breaking. Just preprogram a bunch of words and phrases to display when a certain string of characters is entered. This is just like pressing keys on your keyboard so your character would stand up and sit down. I'm not knocking them for it, like I said, its a great thing... it just doesn't require a lot of technology to do so it doesn't really impress me. Anyway, this is not a thread about the auto-translator.

I have to agree that entering into an established economy did force everyone to feel like they were playing catch up from the start. This was made worse by the fact that players were already killing super high level creatures and farming high level items. Seeing posts like "First NA guild to enter Sky" made me feel like I was playing someone else's adventure. An old game if you will. I guess knowing someone else had been playing the game for over a year made me feel like a second class citizen.

Sorry for my long winded post.

Yes, there was racism in FFXI, I remember hearing horror stories about some of the fights between the Japanese and American players... personally I believe that the JP and NA releases should have been timed together, but there's no sense whining about that now.

Anyway this isn't about racism anyway, it's about elitism... and more or less the differences between EQII and FFXI. Since I don't play EQII I can't really compare the two, but I can say that after playing EQI FFXI was like a breath of fresh air... for two reasons.

1. Job Change, you start the game and decide to be a Nuke Class, after 35 levels you realize you don't like nuking, what do you do? Switch to another class! No need to create a new character, all your skills stay the same (even if your stats don't)... EQI didn't have this, and from what I've seen of EQII, it doesn't either (though I will say that EQII's system looks good, like you slowly build up your character bit by bit along different branches).

2. The storyline, EQI had a great backplot... that was about it, the only time I actually felt like the "Adventurer" my character was supposed to be was in the rare GM event... I found EQI's quests to be bland and boring ("We're at war with the Orcs, bring me 4 orc necklaces"), and their staged quests to be rather stupid too (the Velious ring quest). FFXI at least gave the illusion of progressing the plot, with cutscenes involving your character, NPCs remembering your previous actions, and the ability to actually make a difference in the world (with Conquest). EQII also looks like it will do a better job of this, but that's beside the point.

I've been rambling, but I'll just close with this. EQII looks like a good MMORPG, but atm I'm still happy with FFXI, maybe when I get bored of FFXI I'll switch, but until then Lindain of Bastok will still walk the lands of Vana'diel.

Racism is FFXI went both ways, don't place it on the Japanese players alone. I've booted many of players for saying '***'. It got to a point where everything was blamed on the Japanese players. 'Oh the economy sucks so bad! The Japanese got to start the economy! Blah, blah, blah.' So how's the economy now? Inflated by gil farmers! I bet they wish they had the old economy back ^^

I never had one bad experience with a Japanese player in the year I played...possibly because I was a Tarutaru? I did have a Hume though, heh. I couldn't even begin to start on how many North American players I had problems with, though.

The other huge problem with leveling in FFXI that was noticeable (especially post 50) was that only certain jobs were needed for parties. I am talking RDM, BRD, or NIN, PLD. If you picked NIN you never had problems getting invites because you were a less downtime oriented tank or you didn't need a RDM/WHM (compared to PLDs). PLDs got invites as well, they were just a second choice to NINs. RDMs (refresh) and especially BRDs(no MP needed) got invites for buffing. Why did these jobs get invites, because everyone wanted to be damage dealers.

Nobody wanted to tank or buff. They just wanted their uber DRKs or RNGs. Even BLMs had problems getting parties if the buffer and tank were not already a part of the group. This is what sucked about FFXI as far as partying went.

Sure people will say "get a staic and STFU". Honestly though, how many of you can honestly say you had a long lasting static party? The exp grinding in this game was so insane. I would spend 6 hours at a time in Altepa or Crawlers Nest(exping, not forming, meeting, or camping) and be grateful if I got a level.

A high percentage of players cannot devote that much uninterrupted time for gameplay. Now compound that by finding 5 other people that not only can meet the same playing time requirements you have, but have the neccessary jobs/abilities to fill out your party (i.e. everyone isn't a DRK or DRG).

This is a big reason why even at 40ish people started to quit the game. They just got tired of waiting 6 hours at a time looking for a party every weekend and then having minimal progress to show for it.