This is somewhat long winded, but I encourage everybody to read it, especially the FF to EQ2 converts. We as a community, must be careful to avoid this sort of thing.
Seems most here have played FFXI. That game would have been a totally different game, if they had done one thing differnet: NA only servers on NA release.
Think FFXI has alot of elitism? Ever wonder why? I'll tell you why, have a seat and take a listen.
When FFXI was released in NA, they allowed all of us ( I was there within the first week ) to filter into the already populated JP servers. The enconomy was already almost 2 years old, with most of the server having at least 1 job maxed out.
As we ( I refer to "we" as the NA players ) started to log in to the first time, we didn't have pre-conceived notions of the game. We went in, looking to see the game for ourselves.
What we saw was alot of newbie JP characters. Only they weren't newbie players. They already had maxed out at least one job, and were playing other jobs.
This is a very important point here. The JP players were all "twinked" massively. They all had tons of gil, high skills and lots of the "best" equipment. They were as good as they can get, working together to get maxed out exp, trying to grind their way high enough to get "back up" to raid with their new job.
Now we, as new players, come in and this is what we see. Most people didn't understand what they saw. The JP were twinked to the max, but the new players looked at the JP, and thought it was "normal" because that was our first taste. They thought it was normal for players to always have all the best gear at every level, millions of gil worth. And so they tried to emulate them.
You think on JP release all the new players were required to have a million gil in items by L20? Of course not, but for the NA players who saw that their unwitting "role-models" had all that gear by then, this became their goal for normalacy.
The game broke from the start of NA release. Thousands of NA players on their first job, trying to emulate the JP players on their 2nd, 3rd etc. It just wasn't going to happen, but mob mentality rules in these cases.
We ourselves, as a community, unthinkingly set completely unreasonable expectations.
Having millions of gil in items at low levels wasn't normal. It was twinking. But we didn't understnad.
Getting 200+ exp per kill wasn't normal either. It was the upper limit of what was possible. We didn't understand that the JP could only do this because they had the perfect setups, with a years worth of gil backing them. But we saw them do it, and instead of the sky becoming the limit, we saw the sky as the only place to be.
That started a long chain-reaction of the break down. In order to get that massive exp, people had to kill mobs that weren't ever intended to be fought at those levels. While possible, after a certain level difference accuracy became brutal. Spells were resisted alot, melee types missed constantly. People sought out the millions in gear that the JP had in order to try and rival them. But it was unreleasitic that you can get a years worth of gil in a short amount of time, isn't it?
Turns out, there is a way to do so... farming. Instead of just using items and gil gained from normal gameplay, they sought out the best luxuray items. So people starting killing mobs that didn't give exp, purely for gil. Since all mobs dropped roughly the same value of loot, people started farming the lower level zones.
At first people would be nice, and not farm where people exp'd, especially in the newbie areas, and the newbie dungeons. But as time went on, and the game world wasn't able to support thousands of players attempting to gain a years worth of gil in such a short time, more and more newbie areas were farmed more and more. The sheer amount of time it took to get the sort of gil needed to be "uber" was crazy.
And so gil selling became more previlent. It was always there, but now it became almost required. Everyday people didn't want to spent months farming, but didn't want to be excluded from playing because they didn't. So they were forced to buy gil, which made the economy start to inflate, and thus, more people were forced to buy gil to keep up. It just sorta spiralled out of control from their.
The point is long-winded, but important. Square made the first half of a big mistake in mixing JP and NA players. The NA players developed a mob mentality that was the other half of that big mistake.
Everquest II is still starting. Our sense of community, or lack there-of, will have a huge impact on the entire life of the game. Be aware that your tone, your expectations, and your requirements of other players will become set in stone by any of the new people as they join.
New players will look to us as role models, not just in game, but on the forums. What you expect from them, they in turn, will expect from new players. It's a pyramid layout. Want to avoid the elitism? Start from the top.
Edited, Fri Nov 19 14:37:50 2004 by Yuniko
- Forums
- EverQuest II
- General Discussion
- Where FFXI went wrong
Where FFXI went wrongFollow
Very excellent post that I whole hardingly agree with. I pretty much felt I was inferior in FFXI with out the best gear.
Currently though on EQ2, I'm going at a good pace and am satisfied with the amount of wealth and skills I have in comparison to my peers.
Currently though on EQ2, I'm going at a good pace and am satisfied with the amount of wealth and skills I have in comparison to my peers.
Nice write up.
I've often though about how FFXI would've been fresh. New economy, no preconceived notions, and no idea of what to do.
This is the main reason I opted to get out and get into EQ2 when I did. Regardless of how many bugs the game has at first and how unstable it still it, I wanted to get into it from the start and be one of the people who built the world that people are going to walk on for years to come.
I've often felt that people were so stuck up in FFXI and that the entire tone of game play in EQ and EQ2 is very relaxed comparitivly. Blind invites are acceptable (and not worth getting mad over) because a group can work with so many different combinations in EQ2. In FFXI, by the time it was released, the idea of the cookie cutter party was already perfected, so we weren't encouraged to try odd setups; even though they could've been more rewarding than the cookie cutters. Some of the best parties I have had in FFXI didn't get millions of xp / hour. It was a steady party and very relaxed. We pulled in good xp and had fun doing it.
But seriously, excellent write up.
I've often though about how FFXI would've been fresh. New economy, no preconceived notions, and no idea of what to do.
This is the main reason I opted to get out and get into EQ2 when I did. Regardless of how many bugs the game has at first and how unstable it still it, I wanted to get into it from the start and be one of the people who built the world that people are going to walk on for years to come.
I've often felt that people were so stuck up in FFXI and that the entire tone of game play in EQ and EQ2 is very relaxed comparitivly. Blind invites are acceptable (and not worth getting mad over) because a group can work with so many different combinations in EQ2. In FFXI, by the time it was released, the idea of the cookie cutter party was already perfected, so we weren't encouraged to try odd setups; even though they could've been more rewarding than the cookie cutters. Some of the best parties I have had in FFXI didn't get millions of xp / hour. It was a steady party and very relaxed. We pulled in good xp and had fun doing it.
But seriously, excellent write up.
although I appreciate your message.. especially as an FFXI player I'm *WELL* aware of it's short comings...
but honestly do we really need to start the "X" game does this better than "Y" threads that seem to dominate the FFXI forums?
please everyone let's not start this.. I will *NOT* rate you down for having an opinion on FFXI and I realize it's impossible to play the two without drawing references and comparisons.. but do these post really do anything for the EQ2 community?
ex-FFXI players allready know.. and
non-FFXI players wouldn't quite understand the depth of the issues..
I suppose what I'm trying to say is: Just let it go.. and enjoy EQ2.
but honestly do we really need to start the "X" game does this better than "Y" threads that seem to dominate the FFXI forums?
please everyone let's not start this.. I will *NOT* rate you down for having an opinion on FFXI and I realize it's impossible to play the two without drawing references and comparisons.. but do these post really do anything for the EQ2 community?
ex-FFXI players allready know.. and
non-FFXI players wouldn't quite understand the depth of the issues..
I suppose what I'm trying to say is: Just let it go.. and enjoy EQ2.
While it seems like such a simple thing to state, I can't possibly agree more. I was twinked like crazy in FF because it was the only way to be accepted and do well in parties that were fighting things many levels above our own.
In my short time in EQ2, I've changed armor a couple times. A good portion of it is still orange, some is yellow, some is white. I know there is better armor - I've seen it - but I can't afford it; this has not been a problem. I've only been in a couple groups, but they were much more enjoyable than ANY I'd EVER been in in FF. We took groups of 3 or 4 blue mobs and handled them wonderfully with little downtime, good drops, and fair experience. The fact that elitism is almost entirely non-existant so far (in my experience) has already made this game a million times more fun for me than FF ever was. You are right. Hopefully our newbie momentum will continue and we will form a strong community filled with respect and dignity. I am hopeful. Being present for the launch of something this huge is just incredible.
In my short time in EQ2, I've changed armor a couple times. A good portion of it is still orange, some is yellow, some is white. I know there is better armor - I've seen it - but I can't afford it; this has not been a problem. I've only been in a couple groups, but they were much more enjoyable than ANY I'd EVER been in in FF. We took groups of 3 or 4 blue mobs and handled them wonderfully with little downtime, good drops, and fair experience. The fact that elitism is almost entirely non-existant so far (in my experience) has already made this game a million times more fun for me than FF ever was. You are right. Hopefully our newbie momentum will continue and we will form a strong community filled with respect and dignity. I am hopeful. Being present for the launch of something this huge is just incredible.
wow great post, very well thought out, i agree 100%, rate up.
Quote:
The point is long-winded, but important. Square made the first half of a big mistake in mixing JP and NA players. The NA players developed a mob mentality that was the other half of that big mistake.
Everquest II is still starting. Our sense of community, or lack there-of, will have a huge impact on the entire life of the game. Be aware that your tone, your expectations, and your requirements of other players will become set in stone by any of the new people as they join.
New players will look to us as role models, not just in game, but on the forums. What you expect from them, they in turn, will expect from new players. It's a pyramid layout. Want to avoid the elitism? Start from the top.
Everquest II is still starting. Our sense of community, or lack there-of, will have a huge impact on the entire life of the game. Be aware that your tone, your expectations, and your requirements of other players will become set in stone by any of the new people as they join.
New players will look to us as role models, not just in game, but on the forums. What you expect from them, they in turn, will expect from new players. It's a pyramid layout. Want to avoid the elitism? Start from the top.
Iaini,
He should have said getting to the point was longwinded. He is not comparing the 2. He is using FFXI as an example of how he does not want EQ2 to turn out. In fact he didn't say either was better or worse. He is saying let's make this right. At least that's what I got from it..
A M E N
I couldn't agree more.
I couldn't agree more.
mmm.. thanks for the clarity jute..
if that's the point then I couldn't agree more.
if that's the point then I couldn't agree more.
The message I got from the OP, is that all the problems that are present in FFXI now, can be [potentially] avoided in EQ2 as long as the current players are mindful of what they are doing and do not set the top of the bar as the norm when they become veterans. Not really on X game is better than Y game. Maybe over the course of a game's growth, the experience within could be better than other games. *shrug* But personally I don't see that comparison being made here.
Unfortunately, I don't see that this could be the mainstay, with so many people playing the game and a marginal percentage of them actually come to this or maybe even the official forums. Eventually elitism may kick in. Players now, after a year, may start up another character because they've completed all the endgame content with their main and rather than go through the drudgery of doing things the "normal" way with their new character, they'll twink (still getting used to this term. :/) it with the coin or eq from their main. Without intent, they'll be raising the bar for all the new players that see them with their great gear and believe it to be the norm.
The thing about EQ2 that I really enjoy, is the fact you have multiple venues for gaining exp. There are other reasons for partying up other than to level grind. You can fight for exp while out adventuring to complete a quest. The same could be said for FFXI, but exp grinding is the accepted norm when people lfg. I've rarely been invited or found anyone interested in partying up to explore some zones that are off of center. Only with my static have I been able to go through exp zones and just hang-out and explore the lay of the land. Even then, it's not always 100%.
It would be most excellent if EQ2 could remain as it is right now, but eventually, we all will get bigger and better and things change.
*added*
6 posts before my reply to my target... slow typing day for me? Or are you all just that much faster? hehehehe
And the pessimism (what little there is, imho) in my post does not reflect my true appreciation for the OP post. Just like the others, I'd like for the EQ2 community to be as it is for as long as possible.
Edited, Fri Nov 19 15:28:00 2004 by ArcosKojin
Unfortunately, I don't see that this could be the mainstay, with so many people playing the game and a marginal percentage of them actually come to this or maybe even the official forums. Eventually elitism may kick in. Players now, after a year, may start up another character because they've completed all the endgame content with their main and rather than go through the drudgery of doing things the "normal" way with their new character, they'll twink (still getting used to this term. :/) it with the coin or eq from their main. Without intent, they'll be raising the bar for all the new players that see them with their great gear and believe it to be the norm.
The thing about EQ2 that I really enjoy, is the fact you have multiple venues for gaining exp. There are other reasons for partying up other than to level grind. You can fight for exp while out adventuring to complete a quest. The same could be said for FFXI, but exp grinding is the accepted norm when people lfg. I've rarely been invited or found anyone interested in partying up to explore some zones that are off of center. Only with my static have I been able to go through exp zones and just hang-out and explore the lay of the land. Even then, it's not always 100%.
It would be most excellent if EQ2 could remain as it is right now, but eventually, we all will get bigger and better and things change.
*added*
6 posts before my reply to my target... slow typing day for me? Or are you all just that much faster? hehehehe
And the pessimism (what little there is, imho) in my post does not reflect my true appreciation for the OP post. Just like the others, I'd like for the EQ2 community to be as it is for as long as possible.
Edited, Fri Nov 19 15:28:00 2004 by ArcosKojin
Scholar
25 posts
your post is totally right , that's why I bought EQ2 once it was released , because I wanted to be one of the people who build the game , so even if the game goes like FFXI ( although I don't hope so ) ... at least , I would be big enough to compete with it , I quit FFXI because I actually couldn't afford the 100 million gear I need for my gear ... and the 10 hours seeking a party
As a super twinked FFXI player I fully agree with this post. I SO hated farming for so long just so I can get into parties and be able to join BCNM battles.
The problem is that it may already be too late. I believe I read a previous post about players not updating their gear every level and using the best gear. Hopefully that post died down and is gone. We can always hope.
The problem is that it may already be too late. I believe I read a previous post about players not updating their gear every level and using the best gear. Hopefully that post died down and is gone. We can always hope.
"The problem is that it may already be too late. I believe I read a previous post about players not updating their gear every level and using the best gear. Hopefully that post died down and is gone. We can always hope."
I didn't see this post, but there does have to be some level of acceptable. e.g. Im a 16 predator right now, but I have higher AC than most of the tanks I party with. Why is this? Because about 50-75% of the tanks I seem to find have all their IoR armor on still except for the chest piece.
Having the uber gear is one thing, but staying at least somewhat up to date in another. I don't really care if there's 1-2 items that are grey-green... But if your tanking and the scouts/mages have better AC than you, you need to upgrade. If you're a scout, and the fighter is outdoing you in DPS, you may need to check your weapons.
---------------------------------------------------------
Now, on the idea of where FFXI went wrong: IMHO, they made it into a second job. Once you got into the 30's-40's, everything just started becoming painful.
1. Travelling still took more time than it should, even with a WHM. Big zones filled with nothing useful, just alot of space for you to spend your time walking across (La Theine and Konschtat come to mind).
2. Money was insanely hard to get for most. I know you should have to work for the good gear, but a month of working and not playing to get a pixel sword.
3. Lack of sense of accomplishment doing almost anything. Rewards for quests were very weak for the most part. Even the mission rewards were weak. e.g. If I remember right, I think I got 5k for Rank 5, and the airship pass too. Although this was exciting at first, once I saw what the homepointing in foreign lands costs at Rank 5, and waiting 10 minutes for an airship a few times, the feeling of accomplishment was gone.
4. I know Im going to get flamed for this one, but they should have done something about the gil sellers, and done it early. Square is not doing everything in their power, as much as they say they are. Most of this money is probably pooled in a bunch of accounts. All it would take is for Square to make a fake account on their server, and then buy some small amount of gil. Trace the money trail on the server logs, cancel the offending accounts, and repeat. Its quite a good gig those guys have, you buy 500k from them, then run to the AH and buy the snipers ring from them and give them the 500k you just purchased back.
I guess the list could go on. I played FFXI for a year, and was strangely addicted to it (I quit just before EQ2 came out). I guess really around level 40ish the game stopped being fun, and became like work. I was in a static party, and sometimes dreaded logging into static the same way I dread going to work some mornings.
I'm sure FFXI will stay around, I know quite a few people staying there (mainly because of time invested so far). However, the majority of the friends I had there have all gone to EQ2 or are going to WoW next week.
I didn't see this post, but there does have to be some level of acceptable. e.g. Im a 16 predator right now, but I have higher AC than most of the tanks I party with. Why is this? Because about 50-75% of the tanks I seem to find have all their IoR armor on still except for the chest piece.
Having the uber gear is one thing, but staying at least somewhat up to date in another. I don't really care if there's 1-2 items that are grey-green... But if your tanking and the scouts/mages have better AC than you, you need to upgrade. If you're a scout, and the fighter is outdoing you in DPS, you may need to check your weapons.
---------------------------------------------------------
Now, on the idea of where FFXI went wrong: IMHO, they made it into a second job. Once you got into the 30's-40's, everything just started becoming painful.
1. Travelling still took more time than it should, even with a WHM. Big zones filled with nothing useful, just alot of space for you to spend your time walking across (La Theine and Konschtat come to mind).
2. Money was insanely hard to get for most. I know you should have to work for the good gear, but a month of working and not playing to get a pixel sword.
3. Lack of sense of accomplishment doing almost anything. Rewards for quests were very weak for the most part. Even the mission rewards were weak. e.g. If I remember right, I think I got 5k for Rank 5, and the airship pass too. Although this was exciting at first, once I saw what the homepointing in foreign lands costs at Rank 5, and waiting 10 minutes for an airship a few times, the feeling of accomplishment was gone.
4. I know Im going to get flamed for this one, but they should have done something about the gil sellers, and done it early. Square is not doing everything in their power, as much as they say they are. Most of this money is probably pooled in a bunch of accounts. All it would take is for Square to make a fake account on their server, and then buy some small amount of gil. Trace the money trail on the server logs, cancel the offending accounts, and repeat. Its quite a good gig those guys have, you buy 500k from them, then run to the AH and buy the snipers ring from them and give them the 500k you just purchased back.
I guess the list could go on. I played FFXI for a year, and was strangely addicted to it (I quit just before EQ2 came out). I guess really around level 40ish the game stopped being fun, and became like work. I was in a static party, and sometimes dreaded logging into static the same way I dread going to work some mornings.
I'm sure FFXI will stay around, I know quite a few people staying there (mainly because of time invested so far). However, the majority of the friends I had there have all gone to EQ2 or are going to WoW next week.
PRAISE BE TO THEE! *kneels*
You have done what I have been trying to put into words for so long. I have had a hard time trying to post what it is that ruined FFXI for me. The one other thing I truly despised is the lack of solo. I'm the type of gamer who likes to pop in for an hour or so a day, but still get a meaningful task accomplished in my time playing. But that's not how SquareEnix saw it. They felt if we can make those money carying gamer punks play as long as possible by looking for parties for hours upon hours, then we can make more cash in our bank accounts. It was highly unneccessary to have Level cap quests, subjob quests, and AF quests that all took far too long without a decent linkshell, or a large amount of friends.
EQ2 is what I've been waiting for. Jump in, and not care if im l337 everywhere I run. That is going to be great. :)
You have done what I have been trying to put into words for so long. I have had a hard time trying to post what it is that ruined FFXI for me. The one other thing I truly despised is the lack of solo. I'm the type of gamer who likes to pop in for an hour or so a day, but still get a meaningful task accomplished in my time playing. But that's not how SquareEnix saw it. They felt if we can make those money carying gamer punks play as long as possible by looking for parties for hours upon hours, then we can make more cash in our bank accounts. It was highly unneccessary to have Level cap quests, subjob quests, and AF quests that all took far too long without a decent linkshell, or a large amount of friends.
EQ2 is what I've been waiting for. Jump in, and not care if im l337 everywhere I run. That is going to be great. :)
Well, first off I'd like to say the original post definately seems to have relavancy on why there are so many "elitists" in FFXI. I wasn't exactly an elitist, but I did always worry about having the best I could possibly get. I think part of it was coming into a game that had been up for nearly 2 years, with tweeked out JP players who had plenty of time to be able to afford that nice stuff.
Another thing is the culture I'm afraid. Seeing the Japanese in those great items made us a bit competitive. It finally became one of those "I'm better than you because I have x and x and x and you don't have those..." Impressing people in a make believe world. You could never convince the other guy with the uber gear that maybe this person with less than uber gear might work full time, so he doesn't have money to "farm" and just wants to play and have fun. No, that game was a JOB, and if you didn't get in the dog eat dog rat race... you didn't get PT's, you got a bad reputation, etc etc.
At lvl 50+ the Game got really really tedious. Took FOREVER to level, and since there was such a drive to get to high lvls instead of "just stop and enjoy the game, RP a little... hang with friends...whatever" it sapped the fun right out of partying and getting exp. Man, I can tell you so many times when the party would be utterly silent except to announce their TP, Skillchains, {Ready}! pull something.... all business. Exp chains 5 250+ exp... fun? No. Every fight was the same in these uber groups, the cycle of skill chains and spells... everything. It was like being at work and doing your job so you could hurry up and go home. Or in this case, gain your lvl.
People did not just randomly help others in this game unless you were lucky (like I was) and had a great Linkshell. Otherwise...for those that didn't play as much or spend a lot of time on the game every day to make those close friends... good luck getting help on your AF or Genkai. Everyone was so intense and so preoccupied with leveling and getting gil... no one had time just to PLAY the GAME.
Party structure was very rigid. The balance of DD's vs. Tanks vs. Mages was so unbalanced that I know DD's that sat around for WEEKS without getting a party to exp in. Soloing was nearly impossible after lvl 20 or so, unless you were a Beastmaster. So you couldn't even go out and fight Decent Challenges for even somewhat slow exp like you can in EQ2. And woe to the player that didn't have the "uber" gear...getting a party was even harder then... because people DID indeed place standards that were incredibly high...too high sometimes... and those that fell even a little short were the ones that didn't usually play the game past 30 or so, just because it was so frustrating.
The economy as well...so volitile, especially now with the gil seller problem going insane. Prices were just so unpredictable and everything seems to get harder and harder to afford, forcing people to either try to get by with less than "great" equipment or spend the majority of their time farming for that item that would make them "leet".
I played FFXI for a year. I have a great LS with super people in it. I did have some great times...but as the game went on, the fun times became fewer and farther apart... and the frustrations just mounted until it made me want to scream. I was very heavily into FFXI for about 7 months, then slowly it decreased and now the only time I log on is to say "hi" to my LS and to check to see if my gear sold, so I can give my gil to a friend to help him level his crafting.
Everyone who played this game feels...I think... somewhat sad about how it all turned out. I come into a game like EQ2 where you dont' have to have the uber gear, or hurry and level, or wait for days and days LFG... and it makes me wish FFXI could have been a little more casual. It would have been a great game if SE had done SOMETHING to fix the major flaws that everyone is mentioning. But unfortunately.... IMHO...I don't see FFXI being alive for more than another year or 2 at best.
Another thing is the culture I'm afraid. Seeing the Japanese in those great items made us a bit competitive. It finally became one of those "I'm better than you because I have x and x and x and you don't have those..." Impressing people in a make believe world. You could never convince the other guy with the uber gear that maybe this person with less than uber gear might work full time, so he doesn't have money to "farm" and just wants to play and have fun. No, that game was a JOB, and if you didn't get in the dog eat dog rat race... you didn't get PT's, you got a bad reputation, etc etc.
At lvl 50+ the Game got really really tedious. Took FOREVER to level, and since there was such a drive to get to high lvls instead of "just stop and enjoy the game, RP a little... hang with friends...whatever" it sapped the fun right out of partying and getting exp. Man, I can tell you so many times when the party would be utterly silent except to announce their TP, Skillchains, {Ready}! pull something.... all business. Exp chains 5 250+ exp... fun? No. Every fight was the same in these uber groups, the cycle of skill chains and spells... everything. It was like being at work and doing your job so you could hurry up and go home. Or in this case, gain your lvl.
People did not just randomly help others in this game unless you were lucky (like I was) and had a great Linkshell. Otherwise...for those that didn't play as much or spend a lot of time on the game every day to make those close friends... good luck getting help on your AF or Genkai. Everyone was so intense and so preoccupied with leveling and getting gil... no one had time just to PLAY the GAME.
Party structure was very rigid. The balance of DD's vs. Tanks vs. Mages was so unbalanced that I know DD's that sat around for WEEKS without getting a party to exp in. Soloing was nearly impossible after lvl 20 or so, unless you were a Beastmaster. So you couldn't even go out and fight Decent Challenges for even somewhat slow exp like you can in EQ2. And woe to the player that didn't have the "uber" gear...getting a party was even harder then... because people DID indeed place standards that were incredibly high...too high sometimes... and those that fell even a little short were the ones that didn't usually play the game past 30 or so, just because it was so frustrating.
The economy as well...so volitile, especially now with the gil seller problem going insane. Prices were just so unpredictable and everything seems to get harder and harder to afford, forcing people to either try to get by with less than "great" equipment or spend the majority of their time farming for that item that would make them "leet".
I played FFXI for a year. I have a great LS with super people in it. I did have some great times...but as the game went on, the fun times became fewer and farther apart... and the frustrations just mounted until it made me want to scream. I was very heavily into FFXI for about 7 months, then slowly it decreased and now the only time I log on is to say "hi" to my LS and to check to see if my gear sold, so I can give my gil to a friend to help him level his crafting.
Everyone who played this game feels...I think... somewhat sad about how it all turned out. I come into a game like EQ2 where you dont' have to have the uber gear, or hurry and level, or wait for days and days LFG... and it makes me wish FFXI could have been a little more casual. It would have been a great game if SE had done SOMETHING to fix the major flaws that everyone is mentioning. But unfortunately.... IMHO...I don't see FFXI being alive for more than another year or 2 at best.
I'm an elitist in the sense that I'm more elite than all the elitists in that I don't care what the elitists or the non-elitists do with their time or how they play the game.
Just play the game how you want to play it and have fun, who gives a **** what anyone else does, you're all getting caught up in the rat race, but you're still clinging to your ideals of a perfect virtual world...a world populated, largely, by the same morons you seek refuge from in the first place...
Point being, there are people who live for this, they stay up all night, all they care about is leveling faster than the other guy, knowing more than the other guy, having cooler gear than the other guy, being in a higher ranked guild than the other guy, etc. etc.
EQ is populated, for the most part, by people overcome by an inferiority complex, they get made fun of all the time and they've never been cool, they come home, log in, and all of a sudden their billy badass...
Don't get me wrong, I've met alot of cool people playing EQ, and my above statements don't aren't meant as a catch-all, but if you don't agree that a large number of people that play this game fit the bill above, then you're in denial.
Point is, people are people and they'll always ***** things up, we've had 10,000 years to work things out in the real world and it's still bent, and always will be, you can't start excluding people that you don't like, then you become Adolf hitler, you've gotta learn to be tolerant even of the people that buy plat off of IGN or have the mob mentality, just learn not let them bother you...That's zen baby.
*When I refer to "you" I mean you specifically, you who are reading this now...this is a personal attack on your character, take this personally
Just play the game how you want to play it and have fun, who gives a **** what anyone else does, you're all getting caught up in the rat race, but you're still clinging to your ideals of a perfect virtual world...a world populated, largely, by the same morons you seek refuge from in the first place...
Point being, there are people who live for this, they stay up all night, all they care about is leveling faster than the other guy, knowing more than the other guy, having cooler gear than the other guy, being in a higher ranked guild than the other guy, etc. etc.
EQ is populated, for the most part, by people overcome by an inferiority complex, they get made fun of all the time and they've never been cool, they come home, log in, and all of a sudden their billy badass...
Don't get me wrong, I've met alot of cool people playing EQ, and my above statements don't aren't meant as a catch-all, but if you don't agree that a large number of people that play this game fit the bill above, then you're in denial.
Point is, people are people and they'll always ***** things up, we've had 10,000 years to work things out in the real world and it's still bent, and always will be, you can't start excluding people that you don't like, then you become Adolf hitler, you've gotta learn to be tolerant even of the people that buy plat off of IGN or have the mob mentality, just learn not let them bother you...That's zen baby.
*When I refer to "you" I mean you specifically, you who are reading this now...this is a personal attack on your character, take this personally
Shardangel recieves 5994 points of crushing damage.
Scholar
33 posts
Agreed, what kept me around FFXI was my Linkshell, but as soon as I hit 50 and had to deal with the first genkai... that was it for me. too hard and totally not worth it.
38 posts
I'm a former FFXI player. I quit because I couldn't handle the time requirement. For me it became very difficult to play for less than three or four hours. I think I spent a full month just farming and crafting to fully equip my ranger. If I tried to play for a little while I wouldn't get anything done. If I joined a party and left after an hour the party would be disgusted.
For months now I've been watching the Everquest 2 website to take it all in. When it was finally released I forced myself to not purchase it because I was sure I'd have the same problem. This thread seemed proper for my post since former FFXI fans will look at it. I loved FFXI, played the beta of WOW and it was fun but not worth $15 a month. Would EQ2 be a good place to play or would I run into the same problems?
For months now I've been watching the Everquest 2 website to take it all in. When it was finally released I forced myself to not purchase it because I was sure I'd have the same problem. This thread seemed proper for my post since former FFXI fans will look at it. I loved FFXI, played the beta of WOW and it was fun but not worth $15 a month. Would EQ2 be a good place to play or would I run into the same problems?
Pre-level 20, you shouldn't have a problem playing the game solo. Truly told, I wouldn't lfg if I was only going to play for an hour. Even if it was to complete a quest and not level grind, it wouldn't be fair for the others since they'd have to find a replacement and get accustomed to that player.
Since I'm still playing "That Other Game"(tm)with my static buds, I only spend roughly 1-2 hours playing EQ2. Usually I'm able to complete a quest or two and have been able to explore Antonica. This game, imho, has a more relaxed, casual feel. As long as you avoid doing the same things you did in "That Other Game"(tm), you should have a good time in Norrath.
I can't say what happens after 20 (or even level 12) though, so take this with a grain of salt. Read more, determine if you want to be playing another MMORPG (quite frankly, I find these games highly addicting... hehe).
Good luck to you. ^^
Since I'm still playing "That Other Game"(tm)with my static buds, I only spend roughly 1-2 hours playing EQ2. Usually I'm able to complete a quest or two and have been able to explore Antonica. This game, imho, has a more relaxed, casual feel. As long as you avoid doing the same things you did in "That Other Game"(tm), you should have a good time in Norrath.
I can't say what happens after 20 (or even level 12) though, so take this with a grain of salt. Read more, determine if you want to be playing another MMORPG (quite frankly, I find these games highly addicting... hehe).
Good luck to you. ^^
dude blackthorn hellz ya your like totaly right man
This was reposted in the FFXI forum.
This is why you should just leave those people alone. Nothing good will come from posting in that forum, unless you post nothing but positive statements there...
This is why you should just leave those people alone. Nothing good will come from posting in that forum, unless you post nothing but positive statements there...
You have to understand that a lot of the uber elitists in FFXI will defend that game to the death. If anyone says anything that suggests the game might "be better if" or "what if this" they will turn rabid, ruin your karma, chew you up and spit you out without ever SEEING the point you're trying to make.
It's another reason I left the game. People tend to go so hardcore for some reason over FFXI that instead of saying "let's agree to disagree" they rip one another to shreds over something small and insignificant. I hope EQ2 doesn't turn out like that, every game has its share of asshats, sure... but... <_<;;
btw I posted on the FFXI thread what I had posted here, since I know some of those people. Watch my karma go down the toliet because I've *gasp* suggested that there are some major flaws with FFXI ~_~
Edited, Sun Nov 21 01:34:36 2004 by Ivven
It's another reason I left the game. People tend to go so hardcore for some reason over FFXI that instead of saying "let's agree to disagree" they rip one another to shreds over something small and insignificant. I hope EQ2 doesn't turn out like that, every game has its share of asshats, sure... but... <_<;;
btw I posted on the FFXI thread what I had posted here, since I know some of those people. Watch my karma go down the toliet because I've *gasp* suggested that there are some major flaws with FFXI ~_~
Edited, Sun Nov 21 01:34:36 2004 by Ivven
Scholar
33 posts
hehehe, most of my experience with the so-called "elitest" Japanese people was very positive. While there is a problem there, even the snobbiest Japanese players have a base sense of humility and manners. The same cannot be said for North American players.
38 posts
I had the exact opposite encounter with elitest JP players. Anytime I would camp something they wanted they'd follow me around saying only "you leave". I had to report three people to GM's because of this, I never had a problem with NA players(not to say there weren't any crappy NA players). There were several very nice JP players that helped with quests when they didn't have to but most of my experiences with JP players weren't very good.
Recent Visitors: 65
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (65)
- Forums
- EverQuest II
- General Discussion
- Where FFXI went wrong
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC