why would they make classes tank the same but some like guard doing crap dmg and monks doing alot how is that balanced
Edited, Sun Nov 28 01:40:38 2004 by mokuba
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Warriors and the lack therofFollow
6 posts
Honestly, as a brawler I don't see myself doing "a lot of damage"
Sure I can kick and stuff, but its mostly to gain hate. If you want to do real damage you go scout or mage..that's what their for.
Sure I can kick and stuff, but its mostly to gain hate. If you want to do real damage you go scout or mage..that's what their for.
I'm taking it that alot of people probably haven't played City of Heros.
In CoH you had two archtypes that could potentially tank:
Scrappers and Tankers.
Scrappers were in a lot of ways like rangers and monks. They had very high damage rate, and a lower defense rate. They held agro by doing more damage being supplemented by taunts.
Tankers had two different divisions - offensive tankers and defensive tankers. In either case they still had a higher defense than the scrappers but usually did less damage.
Now - Any of the above characters could hold and maintain agro - but they all did it in different ways.
This same argument that's happening on this forum happened on the City of Heros forum - in the end nobody ever agreed and everyone played the game.
We will never agree because there will always be those "one-of" situations.
Guardians can be the best tanks but may be best in a group with high DPS where they need to have more taunt like abilites.
Paladins with their higher DPS and some cleric like abilities would do good in a group where the DPS was lower or in a smaller group.
Shadowknights have a much higher DPS but less defensive abilites but they would be good in a group with extra healing power but lacking in the DPS field.
etc. etc. If SOE did its job right all of the "tankers" will be effective, some more than others, but mostly based on the situation.
In CoH you had two archtypes that could potentially tank:
Scrappers and Tankers.
Scrappers were in a lot of ways like rangers and monks. They had very high damage rate, and a lower defense rate. They held agro by doing more damage being supplemented by taunts.
Tankers had two different divisions - offensive tankers and defensive tankers. In either case they still had a higher defense than the scrappers but usually did less damage.
Now - Any of the above characters could hold and maintain agro - but they all did it in different ways.
This same argument that's happening on this forum happened on the City of Heros forum - in the end nobody ever agreed and everyone played the game.
We will never agree because there will always be those "one-of" situations.
Guardians can be the best tanks but may be best in a group with high DPS where they need to have more taunt like abilites.
Paladins with their higher DPS and some cleric like abilities would do good in a group where the DPS was lower or in a smaller group.
Shadowknights have a much higher DPS but less defensive abilites but they would be good in a group with extra healing power but lacking in the DPS field.
etc. etc. If SOE did its job right all of the "tankers" will be effective, some more than others, but mostly based on the situation.
11 posts
Long thread on this... so before I point out anything towards persons i want to say this.. If you are a warrior and if you have not figured it out yet Rallying Cry will draw instant hard agro... dont believe me just hit Rally when ur cleric is being beat on its better than AE taunt period.
Now on to finger pointing. Arkelias you make some valid points but points from a casters prospective. I played a tank in EQ1 lvl 70 Emarr saw and did most all content EQ had to offer and at no point did warriors suck in EQ1 sure taunt was afu for a bit but a warrior that relied on that Taunt button had not buisness being a tank. On to warriors in EQ2 whats his name is dead on. I have a pally friend I play with everyday we are same level and have the same gear. He can not hold the agro I can hold nor take the damage I can take. Enough said. He can however pull one mob off of me to help with 5 mob pulls. Nothing worse imho is a caster posting on boards about tanks. O and the reason most do not play Heavy tanks is because believe it or not its not about point click and attack in EQ1 nor EQ2. Warrior class is only boring to those that have no idea how to play the class. I think casters are boring hince I do not play them.. OOoo stand cast.. sit ooo stand cast sit.. Thats exciting!!! I am not downing you for playing a caster its your choice and its what gets your motor running. I will never debate with you which caster class is better because I dont play one and never want to play one. So back off or play a tank and put your money where your mouth is.
Sage Nadenu.. Again another caster's view of tanks. The only time and I mean the only time in EQ1 where a pally is better suited to tanks is 2 encounters and 2 only. Rathe council and Tallon Zek. PERIOD. Sure a pally could hold better agro than a warrior...until he ran oom, let us though for one second imagine a warrior that actually is equipped for the fight.. No way will a pally take agro unless they try to. Here is a little bit o knowledge for you. Magister which if you know EQ1 you know is and or was atleast top 5 guilds of EQ any server. They enganged mobs via this.. Warrior engaged and all assisted instantly. No wait for message. Those tanks never lost agro so please explain your theory to the rest of us tanks that actually have lived that part of EQ. /rant is off.
If you want to flame a fellow tank on these boards atleast have the grit to actually play one. Also be prepared to have other tanks like myself that have actually played the warrior class and knows their buisness to light you up. Krazytwin I agree with your post yes pallies and brawlers are great classes but they are not the hard tanks warriors are PERIOD.
Now on to finger pointing. Arkelias you make some valid points but points from a casters prospective. I played a tank in EQ1 lvl 70 Emarr saw and did most all content EQ had to offer and at no point did warriors suck in EQ1 sure taunt was afu for a bit but a warrior that relied on that Taunt button had not buisness being a tank. On to warriors in EQ2 whats his name is dead on. I have a pally friend I play with everyday we are same level and have the same gear. He can not hold the agro I can hold nor take the damage I can take. Enough said. He can however pull one mob off of me to help with 5 mob pulls. Nothing worse imho is a caster posting on boards about tanks. O and the reason most do not play Heavy tanks is because believe it or not its not about point click and attack in EQ1 nor EQ2. Warrior class is only boring to those that have no idea how to play the class. I think casters are boring hince I do not play them.. OOoo stand cast.. sit ooo stand cast sit.. Thats exciting!!! I am not downing you for playing a caster its your choice and its what gets your motor running. I will never debate with you which caster class is better because I dont play one and never want to play one. So back off or play a tank and put your money where your mouth is.
Sage Nadenu.. Again another caster's view of tanks. The only time and I mean the only time in EQ1 where a pally is better suited to tanks is 2 encounters and 2 only. Rathe council and Tallon Zek. PERIOD. Sure a pally could hold better agro than a warrior...until he ran oom, let us though for one second imagine a warrior that actually is equipped for the fight.. No way will a pally take agro unless they try to. Here is a little bit o knowledge for you. Magister which if you know EQ1 you know is and or was atleast top 5 guilds of EQ any server. They enganged mobs via this.. Warrior engaged and all assisted instantly. No wait for message. Those tanks never lost agro so please explain your theory to the rest of us tanks that actually have lived that part of EQ. /rant is off.
If you want to flame a fellow tank on these boards atleast have the grit to actually play one. Also be prepared to have other tanks like myself that have actually played the warrior class and knows their buisness to light you up. Krazytwin I agree with your post yes pallies and brawlers are great classes but they are not the hard tanks warriors are PERIOD.
11 posts
O yeah one last point.. Those that are saying other classes can tank as good as a warrior... Have you ever read a fantasy book ? I mean EQ1 and EQ2 are what???? If you said roleplaying game you are right.. So how many books can you name that have a pally or brawler leading a group of fighters into the fight? O thats right 90% has a General leading the fighting men into battle. Or captains leading divisions. How many of those Generals or Captains had mystical powers like a pally does? How many of them went in with just their fist? Its a role playing game and is designed thus. Warriors lead the main host to battle. pally's and brawlers have unique roles. They hit weak spots in the battle that the warriors can not get to because of their role. It is all supportive and was designed that way. So warriors take the brunt of the battle while brawlers and pallies take out specfic targets. I.E. caster mobs.. or mobs beating on healers. Are they less of a class no ... with out them alot of raid encounters will fail. You have to have some meat to take out specific mobs and pallies and brawlers fit that to a T.
11 posts
Lol I finished reading the post after I posted towards Nadenu and Arkelias.. Seems the tank brothern already succeded in getting the mages off this post by smashing their ideas :P Was good to see Brawlers and pallies alike agreeing on the tanking issue at hand. As far as shortage of warriors goes come to black burrow good god there is alot of warriors. But there is only one dragonsbain :P Had the game for about a week and level 18 now. Will be up there soon.
2 posts
I agree with the Cleric. As a Druid fighting in a party with a level 18 Warrior and Level 20 Paladin. The 18 Warrior looses health as main half the rate of the Paladin. As a rusult I'm not chain casting all my power into heals and drawing agro from insta death to the healer mobs.
The point being missed are the roles intended. Brawlers, Rogues, and Paladins are Damage Dealers. (They attrit the mobs faster) Tanks are Punching Bags (They hold hate). Yes the other fighters have taunt and if they play their roll they will pull that Healer or Chanter agroed mob of the healer or chanter and let the warrior get that hate back (At otimum you only want to have to heal one fighter).
The point isn't that a group can't run rampant through a dungeon with a Brawler tanking.
As to the original point made in the thread... I think most fighters wanted that horse, FD, or Damage Ability (Bragging rights on doing the most damage). The fighter im my opinion get's bragging rights for holding hate and helping keep your healer holding reserver power and the group alive in the tightest situations.
The point being missed are the roles intended. Brawlers, Rogues, and Paladins are Damage Dealers. (They attrit the mobs faster) Tanks are Punching Bags (They hold hate). Yes the other fighters have taunt and if they play their roll they will pull that Healer or Chanter agroed mob of the healer or chanter and let the warrior get that hate back (At otimum you only want to have to heal one fighter).
The point isn't that a group can't run rampant through a dungeon with a Brawler tanking.
As to the original point made in the thread... I think most fighters wanted that horse, FD, or Damage Ability (Bragging rights on doing the most damage). The fighter im my opinion get's bragging rights for holding hate and helping keep your healer holding reserver power and the group alive in the tightest situations.
6 posts
The thing is equipment matters a lot...I've outanked a lot of warriors simply because they had sucky equipment. So you gotta take that into consideration..in fact, a lot of people notice this and ask me to be main tank when we have 2 other fighters at same level.
Brawler's just need to know how they tank...which is with AGI, not an uber high AC like a warrior. I've seen tons of brawlers who don't realize that and start to think they can't tank at all.
Brawler's just need to know how they tank...which is with AGI, not an uber high AC like a warrior. I've seen tons of brawlers who don't realize that and start to think they can't tank at all.
Scholar
16 posts
Cannot find a group as a Rogue. I just can't. The only things I ever see is "Need healer!" "Need tank!"
I'd probably **** myself if I ever saw "Group looking for rogue, PST"
I'd probably **** myself if I ever saw "Group looking for rogue, PST"
I am currently a level 19 crusader about to hit level 20 and be a paladin. I can say that people who think crusaders and brawlers can't keep agro need to learn to play the game first. When you first pull the mob, in the initial few secs you need to acquire agro. If that does not happen the mob basically sticks to one person who does the most damage. After that it is very very hard to get agro off them. Crusaders have several abilities that allow them to do so however, they can gain more hate and also shield and heal the person being hit. They really are great tanks when you use them right. I have more defense currently than any warrior I've met so far.
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