Warriors and the lack therofFollow

What ark is trying to say is this:

Good mentality:


Bad Mentality:


Ark is worried about Mob Mentality. I've seen it more times than I can count in my life. All of these people who have never seen a good brawler tank, or even seen ANY brawler tank, knocking them and saying they can't tank. You saying that they can tank (as good as an enchanter) but warriors are better will make people actually beleive it.

The ignorant proclaims something without knowledge, and all the rest who also are ignorant take up the claim. In this case it's the ignorance of not knowing the tank classes, since the game is new. And the claim that warriors are the required tank, that you MUST have a warrior, and it'd be nice to have one of those other unworthy wanna-be tanks as backup.

See, a little something you should know about people. Most people who don't know (ignorant on the subject) will beleive the first thing that they hear, and think that is the truth. Even if it's wrong, they will defend that, and propagate the myth as gospel.

So becareful of phrasing your opinion as if it were fact. This is most important when it's a biased opinion without alot of facts backing it up.




I'm a 19th level brawler. I don't have limited taunts. I'm not sure where you came up with this.


This is impressive somehow? Many situations? As a brawler, so far i've been able to do it in EVERY situation, 100% of the time, without failure. I've been doing that from the start. I usually only use taunt and shout. Brawlers DO have additional taunts as well, but they aren't even really required. I haven't seen any amount of hate that a taunt, shout, thrust kick overcome.

And as far as defense? I dunno exactly what sort of avoidance other classes have, since I have that filtered. I'll tell you what I have, is anywhere from 60-95% avoidance. Even on the double ^^ orange group mobs, I can still tank with around a 60% avoid rate.

Just an FYI, I resist spells like crazy too. The avoidance isn't just physical. It's also against specials aswell.

So warriors have better AC? True. You say that brawlers avoidance doesn't make up for it? Based on what? Can I get some parsed logs to back up that claim?

So warriors have ( in theory ) better taunting abilities? That you as a warrior can keep hate "in many situations" while I, as a brawler, have no problems with hate in ALL situations, makes me wonder about "better." Maybe you have more taunts. I dunno about you, but my L1 fighter taunt refreshes pretty darn fast, and is pretty effective. How many taunts do you really need? If you need half a dozen different abilties, while the rest of us do it just fine with 2 or 3, then what does that really say?


You want an answer to your original post? I'll give it to ya, clear as day. SoE has stated that all fighters are able to tank effectively. So most people are making crusaders, so they can be shadowknights. It's a very popular class. I'd say the amount of brawlers and warriors together are less than the amount of crusaders. At least, on freeport side.

I'm not sorry to say I was not 1337 or snappy, and FFXI was the only MMORPG I had really gotten into up until recently. To have an attitude that those that "just" played FFXI are all that way is very biased, and wrong... I have met FFXI only players that say EQ players were all idiots ...and they are just as wrong. People are people. To judge them by what games they have and have not played is not only juvenile, it's down right silly IMHO. Those that were "leet" in FFXI were so because of their personalities. I had great gear *check my pro* but I was not ever one to frown on those that had lesser than I. Yes, I expected them to have decent up to date stuff... but did I care if it wasn't "the best"? No.

FFXI and EQ are TOTALLY different styles of games. FFXI was very dependant on sub job and gear. EQ isn't the same, but there are jerks in every game. I knew some GREAT ffxi only players who had never played any other MMORPG, I was in a very large, very helpful, very popular LS on Ramuh *Whispering Wind* and the generalization that has been made would probably offend a great many people. I don't expect an appology, but I would like to say to regard others with such a view is closed minded and essentially...foolish. You must have had bad experiences on FFXI, I had a few.. but I don't like being regarded as a "leetist moron" either, because I'm not, nor will I ever be.

Well i play a brawler and i do tank fairly well but in my opinion i cant take the beating that a crusader or warrior do. In all honesty the brawler line is more fitted to dd and secondary tank jobs. I can generate the hate and take a beating but when its all said n done i feel much better letting the big brutes deal with the main tank job.I can peel it off when needed and take over until the big guy is fine again. Not all tanks were created equal in all aspecs, thats what makes each unique. There straight from a BRAWLERS mouth. 8)

Over and over again I hear the same thing:



Basically you are making assumptions based on EQ1 and other games you have played. I can understand where those ideas come from, because I have also played these games.

Last night I got half way into 19th level. Our party made our way from the entrance of fallen gate all the way into its bowels. We fought everthing from blues to dark orange ^^ mobs. We had one tank, a brawler. She never died, and hardly taxed my mana except in the toughest fights.

So what I am saying is that IN MY DIRECT EXPERIENCE ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME brawlers seem every bit as good as warriors for tanking.

How do I determine this? In Final Fantasy did you ever try playing a white mage and have a warrior tank instead of a paladin? If you so could instantly see the inequity. You had to spam healings to keep that warrior alive. In EQ2 it simply is not like this.

I don't have to dump any more heals out that I do for a warrior. Will this change at higher levels? I can't say. But up to level 20 I can say that Brawler has done every bit as good as crusader and crusader has worked as well as warrior.

You all can argue how you like, but unless you have an actual opinion based on playing the game (like wasteofspace) then your post is just supposition.

Granted the brawler in my group is a great player, and she has good gear. But I have seen warriors with good gear to, and again I just don't see a noticable difference.

haha i'm suprised this thread is still alive so I'll bump it up again re-iterating what I said so many times. Brawlers are good tanks, they can draw hate.....but in my OWN personal opinion I still think (up to what i've seen to lvl 20) that Warriors make better tanks and can handle hate better. Again brawlers also have alot of good qualities that a warrior doesn't share. You can think brawlers are better tanks. It does not matter. Again people are saying their brawler tanks just fine. Well DUH, noone says they can't tank. The only point that was brought up (I will say it again) is that in my OPINION warriors tank better. I really don't care if you BELIEVE me saying this will make bralwers the odd man out landing groups. Oh well.

I'll just say that I am a member of a very large guild. Someone in guild was putting together a group for WC and was asking for a tank. Someone said they were a 14 brawler and then the group leader said "no thanks we need a tank". Ok I don't agree with that mentality. I can say in this situation the brawler would probably have been fine working as tank. If this is what your worried about then I'm sorry its already out there and I doubt my little thread had any effect :P

If I was leading I'd easily take the brawler but personally if I had 2 people tell me they'd tank and 1 was a warrior and the other was a brawler.....I'd pick the warrior and pray that hes got good gear :P Thats just the way it is.

Send it to tells ladies LMAO....from Deuteronomi of Lans Tvyl

as an Ex-FFXI player I can honestly say I am VERY GLAD to be leaving behind the aggrivating repetative and incredibly time consuming group system and tactics. That crud drove me nuts...

apologies for the random post :)

Well it depends on where you left off, a good paladin 45+ before the war fix always made for a better tank. Period. Chain stunning always would keep a mob off the rest of the group in every situation, and with some KEI and other tasty mana buffs this could be maintained indefinetly. A war on the other hand, even as of recent still has trouble making sure no one else gets whacked. Now in LDON this may be ok, but in the planes, that dog wont hunt.



Well so far, and its early on, me being a warrior we've never needed another tank, mobs stick to me like white on rice. With Hold the Line, the magical ability I dont think I've ever really seen clerics health drop below half and that happens once in a blue moon.

Oh well, at least someone hasnt ranted that a scout class, priest, etc. class is a better tank. I beleave that though not necassary, a second tank is definitly a very important thing to have in a group. This "secondary" tank is best played by the brawler classes because they can function as a damage dealing class and if necassry undertake the meat shield position. I will reiterate again that i do not beleave brawlers are better tanks then warriors or crusaders, they just werent developed to be a full on tank. I know some will disagree and rant that their brawler has out tanked a (insert favorite non-brawler) but i play one also and i base my opinions on experiance. I wonder how many people who are on this thread really play a fighter class...i think some just post their half-baked ideas on classes they dont play just to incite a riot. (no offense meant to any and no fingers shall be pointed just thats how alot of threads seem to me when dealing with classes)

Warriors most definately ARE the best tanks but even more so, the Guardian is the best tank once you are talking about subclasses.

I think a lot of you are seeing a misrepresentation of what a Warrior that is properly played can actually do. Hold the Line is perhaps the single best hate generator (only seen up to 20 or so levels though). I use this skill every battle and I don't ever lose aggro unless another mob enters the fight and then I just quickly tab over to them and even if there are 4 of them I will get the hate for ALL of them in a single hit. Most people don't use this skill because "you cant move" - dur, you don't have to go anywhere when every mob is next to you. Warriors who don't use this skill are idiots in my oppinion. Why waste all your power spamming taunts and tabbing around when you can use a single low power ability one time and spend the rest on additional attacks like concussion/wound/etc. which in turn generate more hate with HTL activated.

Last night I was fighting in FG and I held aggro on 8 mobs at once. This was 2 full encounters of Yellow cons and I was level 17 and I held hate for the entire duration and I only used Shout 1 time and the rest was Hold the Line.


Damage does not generate huge aggro. If I pull with shout and hit HTL when I get back to group, it doesn't matter how much power a sorcerer uses on a mob or how much I am healed, I will still be its target til its death.

You can sit here all day and tell me that a Paladin or whatever is as good a tank as I am, but when I'm in your group I will be the one tanking unless there is a higher level tank in the group already (levels ultimately outweigh my advantages so far, but just barely). We will have to wait and see what happens when we are past the early stages but as it stands now, as a level 18 Warrior (guardian to be) with over 700 armor/hp and Hold the Line / Shout I am the best meatshield for any group I will join.

Heh obviously.

The guardian has the highest tanking ability by far, highest armor, and highest HP. His job is to take damage and hold agro. Period. That's why he has low damage output.

If you have a guardian (or warrior) tanking, you need less healer power and therefore can fill a spot with a scout or mage. If you have another fighter tanking you might need 2 priests and lose a scout or mage. The DMG/Sec of the whole group doesn't really change overall because you have to change the whole nature of the group based on who is taking damage.


Basically though, if you have a Guardian or Warrior tanking you have more insurance on their ability to hold the mobs agro. This allows people to unload as much damage as they want without worry. This allows you to have a single priest in the group without any problems whatsoever. This also allows all the other fighters to do as much damage as they can (and also use intercept on the guardian if needed).

Ultimately all the fighters do the job equally well, yes, but in terms of Raw tanking power - ability to absorb damage, maintain aggro on a group of mobs, and protect others - the Warrior -> Guardian obviously is the best at that role.


Again - I can tank upwards of 8 mobs with no problem at all maintaining aggro with very little risk. I wouldn't bet on a Crusader or Brawler doing the same.

I'm a Warrior soon to be Berserker... Honestly though, taunting abilities aren't a whole lot better in this than in EQ1... I'm baffled that anyone would complain about FFXI group dynamic in relation to EQ2 though, the fact is there actually IS a group dynamic in FFXI...

In EQ2 so far I have seen nothing short of a zergfest - grab 4 people and 2 people that can heal and throw yourself at something... So far I've found it impossible even with mashing every dmg and taunt ability I have back to back to take aggro off of a chain healing priest or an ability spamming crusader... I've been in 4 groups so far where it's been far easier to just pull with Shout, hit Assault once they are in camp (assuming you don't have CC) and then hope once the healers inevitably get aggro on 2-3 of the remaining mobs that they can chain heal themselves and tank everything as the group picks them off... Oh yeah, some serious coordination and class interdependency here, lemme tell you... 9 9

I enjoy the game a lot, but frankly the combat is such a mess on every level that I've been severely disappointed from how it sounded on paper... FFXI got almost everything else wrong, but at least the combat felt like you had to know a lot about your class and coordinate attacks and heals with your group members... It's pretty depressing to me that the most interesting fights I've had in the last few months have been freaking Gates of Discord and Omens of War trials in EQ...

Here's to holding hope that things will change once I'm a Berserker and that the endgame of EQ2 will have smoother more tactical and challenging battles...