To those with some beta experience, I was looking for some insight into how much low racial starting stats will matter by the time you work to your 20s and up.
As a specific example, I'd like to make a Ratonga SK but with starting STR and STA of 10 and 15, it would seem they are at a significant disadvantage compared to races with starting stats that double or triple this. I've heard rumblings that eventually it really won't matter. Is this truly the case?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Validity of Ratonga Fighters; or "do starting stats matFollow
When I was playing beta I looked at the effect of stats as much as I could, though I never got to the point of creating formulas of any kind. Here's what I found for my fighter/warrior/guardian(only got him to 20 before beta ended).
At lower levels stats have a very small effect on your other melee type stats. Sta will barely increase your hps, str with barely increase you atk, agi will barely increase your defense. In the case of a fighter type, str is the basis for your power pool so that would be a good reason to go with a higher strength race.
When I got to higher levels, I found that my stamina increased my hp pool considerably more than just a few levels earlier. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I had to choose between something like items with +6 hp or +2 sta, and the sta came out worth a few more hps. Again, I didn't do any major searching into the effects of stats, but they seem to get more significant as you level up.
Now, one thing to consider as any class is that arts/spells will be your primary source of damage. From what I've seen, your toon level and learned level of the ability are the only factors for how much effect they have(possibly weapon too, but I haven't observed anything that made it obvious). If stats had any major roll in this I didn't see it to any significant amount. Since strength is the basis of the power pool for a fighter type, going with a race with higher base strength would be a good idea for "best" results.
Do I really think it's neccessary? Nope. In the high end, those few points will probably make the difference of a few extra art uses in a long combat, just like in EQ1 those few extra int/wis points meant an extra cast or three. If you really want that typical "uber" potential toon, then go with the standards like ogre, barb, troll, or iksar for a fighter type. If you just wanna have fun, and don't mind having a little bit of potential trouble in the beginning with encumbrance, then go with something that isn't quite so "uber", like ratonga, erudite, gnome, halfling, etc.
At lower levels stats have a very small effect on your other melee type stats. Sta will barely increase your hps, str with barely increase you atk, agi will barely increase your defense. In the case of a fighter type, str is the basis for your power pool so that would be a good reason to go with a higher strength race.
When I got to higher levels, I found that my stamina increased my hp pool considerably more than just a few levels earlier. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I had to choose between something like items with +6 hp or +2 sta, and the sta came out worth a few more hps. Again, I didn't do any major searching into the effects of stats, but they seem to get more significant as you level up.
Now, one thing to consider as any class is that arts/spells will be your primary source of damage. From what I've seen, your toon level and learned level of the ability are the only factors for how much effect they have(possibly weapon too, but I haven't observed anything that made it obvious). If stats had any major roll in this I didn't see it to any significant amount. Since strength is the basis of the power pool for a fighter type, going with a race with higher base strength would be a good idea for "best" results.
Do I really think it's neccessary? Nope. In the high end, those few points will probably make the difference of a few extra art uses in a long combat, just like in EQ1 those few extra int/wis points meant an extra cast or three. If you really want that typical "uber" potential toon, then go with the standards like ogre, barb, troll, or iksar for a fighter type. If you just wanna have fun, and don't mind having a little bit of potential trouble in the beginning with encumbrance, then go with something that isn't quite so "uber", like ratonga, erudite, gnome, halfling, etc.
No, starting stats don't matter.
8 posts
Yeah, starting stats do matter.
Starting stats matter a little for the first 10 or 15 levels. After that, stats from gear and advancement will outweigh the starting stats. Choosing an oddball race just means that the very early game might be a bit more challenging, but it's all evened out by the time you get to subclass selection.
Yuffie; no, they really don't. Past level 10 the gear stats will outweigh racial stat bonuses by such an enormous degree that it simply doesn't matter in the slightest.
I'm currently a L13 Half-elf brawler.
My base stats:
Str: 17 / Agi: 25 / Sta: 18 / Int: 21 / Wis: 19
With fighter and brawler modes (Str+8, Agi+7, Sta+5)
Str: 25 / Agi: 32 / Sta: 23 / Int: 21 / Wis: 19
Add in my L8 Talent: Nimble ( Agi+4 )
Str: 25 / Agi: 36 / Sta: 23 / Int: 21 / Wis: 19
Now add in bonuses from items (Str+13, Agi+4, Sta+6, Wis+1)
Str: 38 / Agi: 40 / Sta: 29 / Int: 21 / Wis: 20
It should be noted that my armor is almost all store bought, with high armor value, and no other bonuses. The bonuses from items come from my tunic (Str+3, Agi+1) and from various assorted accessories.
Ratonga have low strength and stamina, and so it'll hurt you some. Starting stats DO matter. Those who say they don't, are wrong. The real deal is that starting stats aren't crippling for any race. 10 Str, 15 Sta is bad, but 30 Agi does help some.
Lets compare L20
Ratonga-: 10/30/15/25/20
Fighter--: +5/+2/+3
Crusader: +5/+0/+3/+0/+2
ShdwKnt: +5/+3/+0/+0/+2
Rat-ShKt: 25/35/21/25/24
Hef-ShKt: 32/30/24/21/23
Hum-ShKt: 35/25/26/20/24
Org-ShKt: 45/20/31/15/19
Lets say, like me, you've got alot of AC gear, and just bonuses from accessories mostly. We'll speculate L20 as being Str+20, Agi+5, Sta+10, Wis+5, as Str is the most common bonus, followed by stamina. I doubt you'll use any int items, unless it also gives something else good. But you will use some wis items.
Keep in mind that you also can choose a trait at L8 for a +4 stat bonus. Lets choose STR for you.
Rat-ShKt: 25/35//21/25/24
ItemMod:+24/+5/+10/+0/+5 (items and Str+4 trait)
Rat-ShKt: 49/40//31/25/29
Org-ShKt: 45/20//31/15/19
ItemMod:+20/+5/+10/+0/+9 (items and Wis+4 trait)
Org-ShKt: 65/25//41/15/28
The ogre still has a 16pt lead in strength ( 45 vs 65 ) and a 10pt lead in stamina ( 31 vs 41 ) but is behind 15pts of agility ( 40 vs 25 ) and their wisdom is almost equal. Notice, that other than the trait mods, the ogre is still leading by the same amount, but relatively speaking, the gap in stats is starting to narrow. By endgame, roughly L50 or so, you can imagine that stats will be in the triple digets, all 100+ At that point, 20 strength, and 10 stamina will be nice, but it's nothing close to the lead at the start.
Thats why people say stats only matter in the beginning. From what i've seen, i'm going to go out on a limb, and say that the stats will still matter endgame, it just won't matter as much.
Really, choose the race you want. If you want to be an ogre, go for it. If you want to be a ratonga, more power to you. Even though ratonga are probably the worst race for shadowknights, the way stats are done means no race is crippled, for any class.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 23:32:17 2004 by Yuniko
My base stats:
Str: 17 / Agi: 25 / Sta: 18 / Int: 21 / Wis: 19
With fighter and brawler modes (Str+8, Agi+7, Sta+5)
Str: 25 / Agi: 32 / Sta: 23 / Int: 21 / Wis: 19
Add in my L8 Talent: Nimble ( Agi+4 )
Str: 25 / Agi: 36 / Sta: 23 / Int: 21 / Wis: 19
Now add in bonuses from items (Str+13, Agi+4, Sta+6, Wis+1)
Str: 38 / Agi: 40 / Sta: 29 / Int: 21 / Wis: 20
It should be noted that my armor is almost all store bought, with high armor value, and no other bonuses. The bonuses from items come from my tunic (Str+3, Agi+1) and from various assorted accessories.
Ratonga have low strength and stamina, and so it'll hurt you some. Starting stats DO matter. Those who say they don't, are wrong. The real deal is that starting stats aren't crippling for any race. 10 Str, 15 Sta is bad, but 30 Agi does help some.
Lets compare L20
Ratonga-: 10/30/15/25/20
Fighter--: +5/+2/+3
Crusader: +5/+0/+3/+0/+2
ShdwKnt: +5/+3/+0/+0/+2
Rat-ShKt: 25/35/21/25/24
Hef-ShKt: 32/30/24/21/23
Hum-ShKt: 35/25/26/20/24
Org-ShKt: 45/20/31/15/19
Lets say, like me, you've got alot of AC gear, and just bonuses from accessories mostly. We'll speculate L20 as being Str+20, Agi+5, Sta+10, Wis+5, as Str is the most common bonus, followed by stamina. I doubt you'll use any int items, unless it also gives something else good. But you will use some wis items.
Keep in mind that you also can choose a trait at L8 for a +4 stat bonus. Lets choose STR for you.
Rat-ShKt: 25/35//21/25/24
ItemMod:+24/+5/+10/+0/+5 (items and Str+4 trait)
Rat-ShKt: 49/40//31/25/29
Org-ShKt: 45/20//31/15/19
ItemMod:+20/+5/+10/+0/+9 (items and Wis+4 trait)
Org-ShKt: 65/25//41/15/28
The ogre still has a 16pt lead in strength ( 45 vs 65 ) and a 10pt lead in stamina ( 31 vs 41 ) but is behind 15pts of agility ( 40 vs 25 ) and their wisdom is almost equal. Notice, that other than the trait mods, the ogre is still leading by the same amount, but relatively speaking, the gap in stats is starting to narrow. By endgame, roughly L50 or so, you can imagine that stats will be in the triple digets, all 100+ At that point, 20 strength, and 10 stamina will be nice, but it's nothing close to the lead at the start.
Thats why people say stats only matter in the beginning. From what i've seen, i'm going to go out on a limb, and say that the stats will still matter endgame, it just won't matter as much.
Really, choose the race you want. If you want to be an ogre, go for it. If you want to be a ratonga, more power to you. Even though ratonga are probably the worst race for shadowknights, the way stats are done means no race is crippled, for any class.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 23:32:17 2004 by Yuniko
There is quested/crafted gear you can easily get at level 20 that has enormous stat bonuses. Any difference in stats is negligible before that point; after that, there is zero applicable difference.
Agi is vital for fighters that are DD (damge dealers) but so is Str. basically play to your weakness, as a ratonga focus on +Str items and as a Ogre focus on +Agi items. I sucks to Hit for 2-3 damge when an ogre is smacking away for 4-6, but it sucks even more to Swing and miss 2/4 times while a Ratonga lands hits 3/4. (these are in no way accurate stats, jus examples)
Agi= Evasion, Defense, and ACCURACY.
Str= Power Points, and DAMAGE
I suggets to the op to finish those quest that give +pp armor peices, and find some armor with +Str.
a rat is an ogre... jus smaller, fuzzier, and beter looking ^^
Agi= Evasion, Defense, and ACCURACY.
Str= Power Points, and DAMAGE
I suggets to the op to finish those quest that give +pp armor peices, and find some armor with +Str.
a rat is an ogre... jus smaller, fuzzier, and beter looking ^^
13 posts
I am a ratonga warrior and at level 15 I have about 20 less power than an ogre warrior and have about 25 less hps. So if 20 power and 25 hps are important to you, yes stats matter. If you, like me, won't really notice the difference, then be a rat :).
Indya
15 Ratonga Warrior
Indya
15 Ratonga Warrior
Gear definitely seems to beat race. After splurging a few silvers and giving my 13 Halfling Brawler a full set of even-to-orange con armour, he can nicely out-tank any given cheap-*** Barb or Dorf Warrior. As a rattie, you should be able to do the same and still stay comfortably within budget :p
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