Rogue/Ninja ConfirmedFollow

Being a base class means weaker main attributes all around, no unique abilities whatsoever, can't wear some armor sets (level 45 AF, i90 myth, presumably the new upcoming AF sets), no relic weapon upgrade option, and if it's anything like the other base classes, it'll be shunned by over 99% of the player base as soon as they get their soul crystal. Unless SE makes some changes to base classes, I can see why people wouldn't be too exited for what rogue is going to become.

Tbh, if thief were the base class for ninja, I wouldn't be surprised if it was even more upsetting to people because it would dash their hopes of getting an actual full fledged job with its own soul crystal and unique skills (although if that were the case, I guess they could have just gone with "rogue" for the job if they decided to make another branch from thief. )

Personally I think Archer should also unlock Ranger in addition to BRD. The same can be true of Rouge unlocking THF and NIN in theory. The only problem I see is a THF in FF lore doesn't offer anything special beyond stealing(steal, mug, treasure hunter) compared to the NIN job. I suppose SE could give THF Sneak and Trick attacks, but I just can't fight this feeling that would also step on NIN's job(placement of attacks and function such as rear attacks). I'm more interested to learn which abilities the Rouge class will offer NIN job. If I had to guess, dual wield, sneak(avoid mob detection), faster running speed, poison dagger/katana, sneak attacks to name a few.

It wouldn't really have to work like Thief generally does. Bard, Summoner, and Scholar are already in name only... but at the very least, hopefully a job branch that doesn't branch off into the magical ninjutsu, eastern influence katana side would be nice.

It really seems a lot like Bard where we're going to start off as one thing and then get magical abilities (and I feel that Archer should get a ranger job as well)

Edited, Jun 20th 2014 1:14am by lass5

Long time no see Hyrist. Good to see you again.

I agree with you, it's seems a lot more difficult to make the archetypical thief in FFXIV. Everything is a DPS check it seems that a DPS hybrid support class would be risky. BRD seems to work, but I'd prefer Ranger if I were to play a ranged class. Dual wield and poison(THF WS's from FFXI) are already confirmed in the trailer. The daggers also look different than the typical dagger GLD uses. I just finished the main story last night and thought that that hooded female from Doma(Ironically, FF6 has a Samurai named Cyan from Doma) was wants to teach you her martial ways. It's clear she's a ninja or rouge based on her fighting moves so far. I'm wondering if SE will treat NIN as the first true advanced class that requires you to complete the main story to activate.

And when did the Final Fantasy Bard start off as an Archer? ...sorry, I know what you're saying, but I think it's more of an excuse/justification

since the first title, the series has evolved a lot.

I see Ninja as a job with eastern influences, katanas, throwing abilities, ninjutsu magic

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131213041721/finalfantasy/images/5/50/EdgeDS.jpg

But when I think of Thief I think of a character like Zidane and having more of a western influence in weapons/equipment and a completely physical attack style.

I understand that because of the class with an equipped job stone system that FFXIV went with, it makes sense for Ninja to come from a base "Rogue", but I feel like the game should be getting a Thief job by now

I don't even know why they're still perpetuating the class system when it's set up so we never use the class again after unlocking our jobs. It just seems limiting to the dev team in regards to new jobs more than anything.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2014 2:57am by lass5

Good point. THF/NIN remained the #1 combo for the job until dancer came along. Not just for the shadows and evasion, but also because THF in XI didn't get native dual wield until level 80 or so.

There is none. But that wasn't my point. This discussion is basically about the label of which this class is called. We don't even know if the Rogue class will give us Steal!

How?

Push button -> Either get something or not.

That doesn't exactly require a degree in Advanced Stealology or something.



Because it's not that interesting a mechanic from a gameplay point of view. For the record though, WoW rogues do have steal. The most interesting thing they found to do with it was to put a piece of the rogue legendary weapon on a raid boss you had to steal from. Wheeeeeee.

But I think what you just described is in the realm of complexity.

I think leaving it to just take item drops off enemies is ok, and maybe have an implementation (that's optional way of going about the fight) in a dungeon.

So if Rogue gets steal/mug, will this still be a debate that Rogue turns into Ninja?

Edited, Jun 22nd 2014 11:08am by Stilivan

Only one we do have is One Ilm Punch, which would completely ruin a MNK's rotation lol, so it would actually be good. It's not really any more complex than hitting the mana converter in order to not drown. It probably would run that risk, but if SE wisens up and goes more toward 8-24+ man content it wouldn't matter so much, much like in XI while Geomancer is amazing, in low man situations (4 man for comparison who don't play XI) it's hard to place, but in alliance based content, it can fit in no problem without sacrifices.



I still think the debate is more it's weird as **** for a thief of any kind to master ninjitsu lol, so it's not really a problem or anything given the whole "classes must exist" setup of XIV, but it's just a really weird design decision especially considering this is a FF game, normally they'd wait till at least something that makes a bit more sense is released to throw in Ninja, for example the Tactics games and how you needed to mix/match for certain jobs, here Rogue > Ninja is just odd in that regard, which is why some likely wished it was more Rogue > Thief.

Even though, i still wish it was Musketeer since the abilities and core concept obviously works (look at all the bosses and enemies lately.)



Edited, Jun 22nd 2014 9:56am by Theonehio

Well if we're going to discuss whether the reasons Yoshi gives us for things make sense, that's a whole nother discussion. I personally think most of the excuses he gives are BS. But those are his words (things like Steal, Mug, Flee wouldn't work) I think



I still don't think you understand why people want a separate Thief. I don't feel like explaining it again

I think most big FF fans understand it why you'd want a Thief and a Ninja in a FF MMO

Anyway: I'm at the point where I realize this dev team doesn't really care about what I personally have to say about this game. I don't really think any North American input gets to this dev team, or they just don't care. Hopefully the Japanese people push for a Thief but this will probably be another issue where it's like "that's how it is in FFXIV, so deal with it.". Most likely they're going to add Ninja and then move on to other roles and not make a Thief job for a long time, if ever.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2014 7:11pm by lass5

Just until 30 when the NIN job is unlocked though right? Won't NIN use katanas? If so, we won't ever be using daggers in any endgame event, which is where you'll spend 90% of your career as a NIN.

Yeah, most likely "katanas" are still doing to be the same weapon type as the Rogue "daggers", which they said is one weapon (not two seperate weapons, each with different stats). So you'll be equipping a "set of daggers".

Most likely the 30+ weapons will just have an eastern influence