Greed Party and Loot thievesFollow

I was just explaining the process Blizzard went through when they looked at this issue to clarify what I am suggesting here. You are right that Blizzard locks characters down to 2-3 roles, but allowing a single character to play as any job in XIV (and XI for that matter) hasn't changed the ratio of people willing to be tanks and healers versus people wanting to glue their eyes to parsers.




Actually,WoW is moving toward more *Bound to Battlenet Account* gear. Practically everything on Timeless Isle was Bound to Account, so actually, I *could* go there on my Paladin and farm up gear for my Death Knight, which I could then use to skip a lot of content and immediately play current content with. That's why we want to gear other jobs, right? So we can then bring that job to current content or do other content outside of the group with that job\gear eventually?

This is another situation where Blizzard has already gone through the growing pains for us. They already figured it out.

People were starting to grow weary of this very system of needing to do EVERYTHING 1-90 when starting a new "job", especially since the 1 character\all jobs model is so superior and people are hearing about it now and asking for better ways to gear their "alts". As XIV gains traction I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard tries to find a way to implement more of SE's ideas and we start to see this sea of alts disappearing entirely.

Anyway, I don't care anymore what happens in that game. I care what happens in this one.

The main takeaway of my post is:

There are three *main* roles in any mmo game. This is that formula
Tanks < Healers < DPS

What does this mean? Developers have to be very careful when they work on these systems. Design a system that *forces* the people who are naturally inclined as tanks and healers to run content as a DPS, and watch queue times skyrocket. Forget about building parties, unless you get someone who is just gearing out their tank or healer. Your geared and experienced ones will decline content because they won't be able to get anything from it. Or you will pressure them into coming anyway which, in turn, leads to burn out because they will never be able to get into a group on their other job, so they will never be able to gear it, and they will forever be stuck on the job YOU want them as. I can't tell you how many friends I watched leave XI over the years because they just got burned out on a job.

Other option? Just leave the system as it is where the players decide who gets what, and keep watching these discussions happen because someone hit a button they weren't allowed to. PUG groups become even more of a nightmare because anyone could be a ninja. BG player warning forum will be reborn and you'll have to check the threads before inviting someone to your group. Or just not PUG, and wait for your FC to do it, but that usually means adhering to a schedule where you have to abide by the lotting rules, suicide kings, etc., (which is way more administrative work than was necessary for leaders who already have the burden of keeping a community flowing and ensuring content gets completed).

And eventually come to the same conclusion in 5 years that Blizzard did anyway.

They don't have to copy the system exactly, but there are a LOT of good lessons in there that SE could benefit from so we can skip some of this ******** and just enjoy playing the game. Loot drama is one of those things that can absolutely be eliminated, and all it would take is a little extra thought and careful planning on Yoshi-P's part. He's got a pretty good track record so far, so hopefully he will look at what the others in the industry are doing and give us his unique take on it.

One can only hope.

Timeless Isle monsters drop "Gear Tokens" such as Timeless Plate Chestpiece. This is a Bound-to-Account item, and when used, it generates a Plate Chestpiece relevant to your class and selected spec (Tank/DPS/Heal).

Uh..... come, again?

There's one-and-only-one quest in 5.3 that ever gave an item reward of 496, and those were the 502 boots you got for helping the panda climb the mountain. You could maybe make an argument for Valor-purchased gear, but you had to grind a reputation up to get those and spend valor points (that you most likely got out of doing dungeon/raid content... getting 1200+ valor points by dailies would take stinking forever).

Other than that singular quest, no other quest gave out anything near 496 that I'm aware of. And even then, the 496 Tokens are used to make 535, though you need a Burden of Eternity to do so, but those can be bought with Timeless Coins with a mild amount of grind, and if you're lucky, you can find them on regular mobs. You still need the base token (which, again, is BoA).

And 496 might be a hair below 5.3 LFR Gear, but it is enough to get you into the latest LFR (whose item level requirement -is- 496), so you can't really call it "Obsolete". It isn't "Current" or "BiS", but it isn't "Obsolete" either. It is starter gear for the latest LFR and it was very clearly designed to be such.

You can, right now, get a 2nd character to Level 90 and get them wearing almost full 496 (sans weapon slots and 1 trinket) right off the bat, the very moment they ding Level 90 thanks to BoA Gear Tokens. That is just 1 hair away from the latest LFR Content.

Edited, Apr 26th 2014 5:54pm by Lyrailis

Nope, that was 489. Not 496.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=97832

That's an example of one of the many tokens you got while doing BF: Barrens.



Actually, Garrosh drops a BoA weapon on every mode except LFR (that automatically levels up with your character until Lv100!). The first weapon he drops is relevant to your class, afterwards any future Heirloom weapons he drops are Random. So yes, you COULD do it as a Paladin and get an Heirloom Dagger for your Rogue.

Said BoA weapons are mail-able across servers and factions. Kill him as a Paladin, get a Rogue Dagger on Server A: Alliance, mail to your Horde Rogue on Server B.

100% possible.

Edited, Apr 26th 2014 11:10pm by Lyrailis

Absolutely, and again, this is a mindset that is wholly unique to XI players. Exactly what *issues* will it cause?

Scenario 1: You don't have the job leveled. So you have some pieces sitting on your retainer collecting dust, that will be obsoleted in the next expansion. Big whoop. How does this break the game?

Scenario 2: You HAVE the job leveled, but the group needs your OTHER job instead because of that pesky DPS > Healers > tanks formula.

You still get to run the content on the job they need, everyone gets to DO the content, and you *might* get a piece for your other job. How is this different from running the content on the job in question (other than the amount of time you wait to put together a group)? Either way you have already earned the right to DO the content and get drops from it. How does this break the game?

Let's remember that these drops wouldn't be guaranteed. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten that ******* helm from Norushan that I haven't needed the wing was released. The RNG is a fickle friend, but while it just swaps one source of drama for another, it's VASTLY preferable to the infighting and ******** that tears linkshells apart.

It really benefits everyone to allow people to gear off specs (off jobs, in this case) via a personal loot system. You don't lose a drop on your main, you don't wait around trying to find a tank that actually needs to run the content to gear their tank, and the tank gets a shot at some pieces for her other job that she might not have otherwise been able to get because everyone wants her ******* tank.

It didn't break WoW, and it wouldn't break XIV, either.

The best parties I've ever seen were:

Greed > Need.

The party leader is a Black Mage and there's no DPS slot for BLM or SMN, but 3 slots for DRG/MNK/BRD lol <That is being a greedy douche wad. Most people do Greed parties because it allows some to play on their 'alts' or 'best geared' depending but don't need gear for it, but I'm more in favor of:

You can cast Need/Greed only if you have it leveled, because far too many level 20 summoners get the SMN book from Leviathan when 2-7 others who actually has SMN to 50 lose out on it, but as its a greed party, which tend to have higher success since people are all loot whores at heart, they can't need on it.

All in all, it just shows why it makes it hard to play with a non FC/LS group because this kind of system just...seems to benefit only those who lock items, e.g

"Turn 1 & 2 First Casters locked, and no slots for additional BLM/SMN!"
"Turn 4 Caster Pants locked! I'm the only BLM allowed! No SMN or extra BLM!"
"Turn 5 BLM scepter locked, solo tank solo heal, greed party!"

I always giggle when the stuff they lock never drops and they disband the party because everyone else is getting what they want.

I did a T5 greed party this weekend. The RNG gods love me. First kill I get my smn book. 2nd kill I get a Lance. 3rd kill I get Plate helmet. People hate my RNG because I'm one of those people with everything at 50 so I technically can use everything AND I get high rolls.

Or... And this is very important - people are running content on certain jobs because they are the job that is needed and they don't *want* to be crappy to others, it's just the system in its current form is designed in a way that kind of makes them.




Filth... How are you "skipping the grind" if you are in the content in the first place? All you are doing is shifting the grind to another job. Me doing the content once to gear my Paladin, and then doing the content AGAIN on my Paladin to gear my Summoner isn't skipping jack sh*t. It's doing the same content twice on the same job because... ding ding ding - the party needs my Paladin! I mean, if SE REALLY wanted us to never be able to get gear for other jobs, there wouldn't even be a greed button. You would only ever be able to lot on items for your current class, and that would probably be the end of all the ninja'ing drops drama, but it wouldn't give people much of an incentive to help out other people to get through content. There's just no *real* reason for the way the system is except that SE overlooked a few things.

I'm done explaining this to you.

Edited, Apr 28th 2014 3:47pm by Torrence

I guess it all just depends. Last greed party I was in everyone rolled greed even if they could hit need on an item they solo rolled.

^. Also, SE has stated you can report people who agree to your terms as it counts as a form of griefing which people have actually been suspended for doing (hell I even seen the person ******** he got a suspension on OF that I reported with a few other people who needed on an item in a greed party)

I've yet to see a Greed party with "undergeared" people since most tend to want to play other classes too that are geared (and no real excuse other than laziness/no time to not have myth sets for your classes nowadays) so that's an odd situation to get thrust into but as said, I always find it a bit funny how the leader locks the slot off and sometimes wonder why it takes quite awhile for people to join it, especially when they lock the lot AND the items. Since farm parties means more than 1 run and sometimes 20+, everyone would eventually get what they want regardless unless the RNG gods simply hates your existence.

I have however seen plenty of undergeared Need > Greed parties since most people are likely to want to try to gear up their fresh mains if they meet the Ilvl, since Relic and some DL (especially nowadays) or Brayflox gear = at least i73, which PF wise, seems to be the bare minimum people set for Turn 1 and 2.

Which would work. But the player population throws a monkey wrench in the works by playing so much DPS, and not enough tank jobs. So you wind up with groups that fill up DPS slots quickly and wait forever (and sometimes simply dissolve) waiting for tanks. Hence, you have tanks who are now gearing up DPS, but feeling like they have to switch back to their tank job for the run.

If you don't get a full party together, there's never going to be any drama since you won't even get into the instance, let alone get any drops to fight over.

Personal. Loot. System.

I am starting to get the feeling that you are being deliberately obtuse - or you really just have no idea what you are talking about.

And of COURSE SE wants you to be able to play the job you want. That's not in debate. Whether that translates to the ACTUAL player experience (it doesn't always), is.

Edited, Apr 29th 2014 10:04am by Torrence